Police Jurisdiction in U K and Portugal

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Re: Police Jurisdiction in U K and Portugal

Post  pennylane on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 2:10 pm

Walt wrote:
Cristobell wrote:

Should also add, lets not forget that officers from the British CPS flew out for a meeting with the Portuguese Attorney General a couple of years ago.  That's pretty significant.  I doubt they were discussing the prosecution of Portuguese citizens.

Crown prosecution can only prosecute in this country,why was she out there? interfering?

Heavies from the UK have pushed, prodded, bullied, intimidated and tried everything to meddle in the Portuguese investigation from the get go, whilst at the same time refusing to supply them with the most basic information necessary to move the investigation forward and solve the crime.   Blatant hypocrisy and evidence of a dodgy agenda (imho).    

My money's on CPS interference!
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Re: Police Jurisdiction in U K and Portugal

Post  Guest on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 2:24 pm

I highly doubt it, they have zero jurisdiction in Portugal, also I would imagine that if the UK wanted the case closed down, they would hardly have opened their own investigation.

I always remember the anniversary picture that year, it was the first time I have ever seen Gerry looking totally distraught, then of course we found out that the CPS had been in Portugal the month before, which tells me that something was worrying him imo

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Post  costello on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 2:29 pm

pennylane wrote:
Walt wrote:
Cristobell wrote:

Should also add, lets not forget that officers from the British CPS flew out for a meeting with the Portuguese Attorney General a couple of years ago.  That's pretty significant.  I doubt they were discussing the prosecution of Portuguese citizens.

Crown prosecution can only prosecute in this country,why was she out there? interfering?

Heavies from the UK have pushed, prodded, bullied, intimidated and tried everything to meddle in the Portuguese investigation from the get go, whilst at the same time refusing to supply them with the most basic information necessary to move the investigation forward and solve the crime.   Blatant hypocrisy and evidence of a dodgy agenda (imho).    

My money's on CPS interference!
Me too pennylane, I have read tweets from N.M@Adiren  in the Algarve more or less stating similar to what you have posted.
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Re: Police Jurisdiction in U K and Portugal

Post  pennylane on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 2:43 pm

costello wrote:
pennylane wrote:
Walt wrote:
Cristobell wrote:

Should also add, lets not forget that officers from the British CPS flew out for a meeting with the Portuguese Attorney General a couple of years ago.  That's pretty significant.  I doubt they were discussing the prosecution of Portuguese citizens.

Crown prosecution can only prosecute in this country,why was she out there? interfering?

Heavies from the UK have pushed, prodded, bullied, intimidated and tried everything to meddle in the Portuguese investigation from the get go, whilst at the same time refusing to supply them with the most basic information necessary to move the investigation forward and solve the crime.   Blatant hypocrisy and evidence of a dodgy agenda (imho).    

My money's on CPS interference!
Me too pennylane, I have read tweets from N.M@Adiren  in the Algarve more or less stating similar to what you have posted.

Interesting, thank you costello x
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Re: Police Jurisdiction in U K and Portugal

Post  pennylane on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 2:44 pm

susible wrote:I highly doubt it, they have zero jurisdiction in Portugal, also I would imagine that if the UK wanted the case closed down, they would hardly have opened their own investigation.

I always remember the anniversary picture that year, it was the first time I have ever seen Gerry looking totally distraught, then of course we found out that the CPS had been in Portugal the month before, which tells me that something was worrying him imo

I think their devastation on the anniversary picture is down to them finally allowing raw emotion through. In the past they didn't dare (imo).
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Re: Police Jurisdiction in U K and Portugal

Post  TheTruthWillOut on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 2:45 pm

My question about the CPS going over there to interfere is why haven't Portugal complained loudly if that was the case? (please don't mention secrecy laws!) Plus it is public record AS/CPS went over there and I don't think if they were there to bully Portugal they would do it so obviously.

Reason I think it is above board is that they did go over there physically and in a overt way. They could easily have done it via video chat. Making a statement I think.
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Re: Police Jurisdiction in U K and Portugal

Post  pennylane on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 2:51 pm

TheTruthWillOut wrote:My question about the CPS going over there to interfere is why haven't Portugal complained loudly if that was the case? (please don't mention secrecy laws!) Plus it is public record AS/CPS went over there and I don't think if they were there to bully Portugal they would do it so obviously.

Reason I think it is above board is that they did go over there physically and in a overt way. They could easily have done it via video chat. Making a statement I think.

Well I for one have been longing for Portugal to put the UK firmly in their place. It's been frustrating watching the Brits ride roughshod over them so blatantly (imo).

Still I think their quiet dignity is to be commended in some ways, and perhaps they weren't playing ball at all behind the scenes!
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Re: Police Jurisdiction in U K and Portugal

Post  TheTruthWillOut on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 2:58 pm

pennylane wrote:
TheTruthWillOut wrote:My question about the CPS going over there to interfere is why haven't Portugal complained loudly if that was the case? (please don't mention secrecy laws!) Plus it is public record AS/CPS went over there and I don't think if they were there to bully Portugal they would do it so obviously.

Reason I think it is above board is that they did go over there physically and in a overt way. They could easily have done it via video chat. Making a statement I think.

Well I for one have been longing for Portugal to put the UK firmly in their place. It's been frustrating watching the Brits ride roughshod over them so blatantly (imo).

I agree about that and if I'm right with what I say it could be argued that the CPS going over there physically is step 1 in showing good faith to Portugal.

Also having the benefit of showing those responsible for disappearing Madeleine that this isn't over.
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Re: Police Jurisdiction in U K and Portugal

Post  pennylane on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 3:19 pm

TheTruthWillOut wrote:
pennylane wrote:
TheTruthWillOut wrote:My question about the CPS going over there to interfere is why haven't Portugal complained loudly if that was the case? (please don't mention secrecy laws!) Plus it is public record AS/CPS went over there and I don't think if they were there to bully Portugal they would do it so obviously.

Reason I think it is above board is that they did go over there physically and in a overt way. They could easily have done it via video chat. Making a statement I think.

Well I for one have been longing for Portugal to put the UK firmly in their place. It's been frustrating watching the Brits ride roughshod over them so blatantly (imo).

I agree about that and if I'm right with what I say it could be argued that the CPS going over there physically is step 1 in showing good faith to Portugal.

Also having the benefit of showing those responsible for disappearing Madeleine that this isn't ove
r.

I would love that to be so TTWO.  However, the Home Office intentionally scuppered the investigation in its infancy by not turning over basic information on the McCanns, and Stuart Prior went from saying they've arrested people for less, to suddenly pushing forward the abduction theory and suspiciously digging around for information (as told by Goncalo Amaral), and let's not forget the Birmingham FSS mighty U-turn! And what of Clarence Mitchell, Head of MMU, working for the gruesomes 24/7.  I could go on and on, the list is endless of UK government interference and assistance in getting them off the hook.  (imho)
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Re: Police Jurisdiction in U K and Portugal

Post  TheTruthWillOut on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 3:24 pm

pennylane wrote:I would love that to be so TTWO.  However, the Home Office intentionally scuppered the investigation in its infancy by not turning over basic information on the McCanns, and Stuart Prior went from saying they've arrested people for less, to suddenly pushing forward the abduction theory and suspiciously digging around for information (as told by Goncalo Amaral), and let's not forget the Birmingham FSS mighty U-turn! And what of Clarence Mitchell, Head of MMU, working for the gruesomes 24/7.  I could go on and on, the list is endless of UK government interference and assistance in getting them off the hook.  (imho)

I know all that pennylane. Given all that Portugal have had to deal with in your list do you think they would go for round two including entertaining the CPS at the AG's office?

Frankly if you are right about this then I personally would equally blame Portugal as the UK for this on-going mess. That is how strongly I feel about this.
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Police Jurisdiction in U K and Portugal

Post  pennylane on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 3:36 pm

TheTruthWillOut wrote:
pennylane wrote:I would love that to be so TTWO.  However, the Home Office intentionally scuppered the investigation in its infancy by not turning over basic information on the McCanns, and Stuart Prior went from saying they've arrested people for less, to suddenly pushing forward the abduction theory and suspiciously digging around for information (as told by Goncalo Amaral), and let's not forget the Birmingham FSS mighty U-turn! And what of Clarence Mitchell, Head of MMU, working for the gruesomes 24/7.  I could go on and on, the list is endless of UK government interference and assistance in getting them off the hook.  (imho)

I know all that pennylane. Given all that Portugal have had to deal with in your list do you think they would go for round two including entertaining the CPS at the AG's office?

Frankly if you are right about this then I personally would equally blame Portugal as the UK for this on-going mess. That is how strongly I feel about this.

We don't know if Portugal is playing ball do we?  

It still seems to me that the UK is pulling out all the stops to control things that have nothing to do with them! We shouldn't even know that CPS went over to Portugal if (as some believe) this is about investigating the mccanns.  To me it still seems like the same old same old from the UK.   I hope I'm wrong, but I just can't get my head around their dubious role.  Time will tell I guess.

jmho
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Re: Police Jurisdiction in U K and Portugal

Post  Freedom on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 3:57 pm

Posts transferred here from the Mark Souster topic.
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Re: Police Jurisdiction in U K and Portugal

Post  pennylane on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 3:59 pm

Freedom wrote:Posts transferred here from the Mark Souster topic.

Thank you Freedom flower xxx
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Re: Police Jurisdiction in U K and Portugal

Post  Walt on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 4:41 pm

Taken from the CPS website.

The Crown Prosecution Service is responsible for prosecuting criminal cases investigated by the police in England and Wales.
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Re: Police Jurisdiction in U K and Portugal

Post  TheTruthWillOut on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 5:58 pm

pennylane wrote:We don't know if Portugal is playing ball do we?  

It still seems to me that the UK is pulling out all the stops to control things that have nothing to do with them! We shouldn't even know that CPS went over to Portugal if (as some believe) this is about investigating the mccanns.  To me it still seems like the same old same old from the UK.   I hope I'm wrong, but I just can't get my head around their dubious role.  Time will tell I guess.

jmho

We do in so far as the CPS crew were allowed to meet with the AG. If the UK were bullying and interfering do you think that meeting would have been entertained?

Do you not think that Portugal would or should have called them out publicly if they were trying to do another number on them?

This issue goes beyond any secrecy laws. For me all that we have (and have not) seen between the two countries law enforcement over the last 2-3 years tells me it must be a legit cooperative effort.

I'm sure Portugal were very skeptical to begin with and made sure they had cast iron guarantees this wasn't another stitch up. It is fair to say they'll never be best buddies but professionally they seem to be getting on with it albeit slowly.    

Anything else will paint both sides as bad guy's wasting a lot of time and taxpayers money in both countries.

*Sorry mods for taking the other thread off-topic!*
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Re: Police Jurisdiction in U K and Portugal

Post  pennylane on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 7:02 pm

TheTruthWillOut wrote:
pennylane wrote:We don't know if Portugal is playing ball do we?  

It still seems to me that the UK is pulling out all the stops to control things that have nothing to do with them! We shouldn't even know that CPS went over to Portugal if (as some believe) this is about investigating the mccanns.  To me it still seems like the same old same old from the UK.   I hope I'm wrong, but I just can't get my head around their dubious role.  Time will tell I guess.

jmho

We do in so far as the CPS crew were allowed to meet with the AG. If the UK were bullying and interfering do you think that meeting would have been entertained?

Do you not think that Portugal would or should have called them out publicly if they were trying to do another number on them?

This issue goes beyond any secrecy laws. For me all that we have (and have not) seen between the two countries law enforcement over the last 2-3 years tells me it must be a legit cooperative effort.

I'm sure Portugal were very skeptical to begin with and made sure they had cast iron guarantees this wasn't another stitch up. It is fair to say they'll never be best buddies but professionally they seem to be getting on with it albeit slowly.    

Anything else will paint both sides as bad guy's wasting a lot of time and taxpayers money in both countries.

*Sorry mods for taking the other thread off-topic!*

Actually yes I do think that meeting would be entertained if the CPS wished to meet with AG, whether Portugal trusted their motives or not!   Every move Operation Grange makes is shouted from the rooftops.  'An official letter has been sent to Portugal requesting such and such.'  'Operation Grange still waiting for a reply,' CPS to visit, etc etc. A dubious way to conduct an investigation (imo).  Always another stick to beat the Portuguese with, and show how the Brits are on top of their game, and the Portuguese are lagging or disinterested. That's how it looks from where I'm sitting anyway.
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Re: Police Jurisdiction in U K and Portugal

Post  dogs don't lie on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 7:23 pm

They were never given the forensics, were they? I heard they asked, but refused as it wasn't allowed?

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Re: Police Jurisdiction in U K and Portugal

Post  TheTruthWillOut on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 7:27 pm

I think that is just a difference in how the police deal with the media here, pennylane. Of course the media put their spin/slant on how they report it.

I hope you're wrong about the AG agreeing to the meeting knowing it was a farce and just more bullying. Like I said that would paint the Portuguese just as bad for me.





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Re: Police Jurisdiction in U K and Portugal

Post  Walt on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 7:51 pm

TheTruthWillOut wrote:I think that is just a difference in how the police deal with the media here, pennylane. Of course the media put their spin/slant on how they report it.

I hope you're wrong about the AG agreeing to the meeting knowing it was a farce and just more bullying. Like I said that would paint the Portuguese just as bad for me.



 


Not sure on that,I think the PJ have SY by the short and curly's,I take Amaral's words,the digs were a show off,the PJ have let SY have their head and its got them no where,it seems to me at least that SY aren't following any thing the PJ did.
How can a foreign police force if not based in the actual country of where the crime was committed really be on top of it.
One thing's for certain they are not in any hurry,so no live person search.


Last edited by Walt on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 7:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Police Jurisdiction in U K and Portugal

Post  Walt on Sun 11 Oct 2015, 7:55 pm

dogs don't lie wrote:They were never given the forensics, were they? I heard they asked, but refused as it wasn't allowed?

My take on it,posted on another thread.

Walt wrote:
The only thing lacking is evidence,or that should be concrete evidence,it wasn't there in 2007 why should it be there now?

SY to the Pj,we want to look at the forensics again.
PJ to SY we want who ever is being protected.
SY no
PJ F off then.
Never the twain shall meet.
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