BREAKING NEWS ON BBC - Madeleine McCann case: Police team cut to four

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Re: BREAKING NEWS ON BBC - Madeleine McCann case: Police team cut to four

Post  Bampots on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 7:54 am

Jellybot

.......... have faith in the Portuguese investigation but seriously doubt whether extradition would be allowed by UK gov


But Portugal could use a European Arrest warrant which fast tracks the extradition process and requires no hard fast evidence of guilt. This could be contested but it would be really strange if that succeeded.

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Re: BREAKING NEWS ON BBC - Madeleine McCann case: Police team cut to four

Post  Jellybot on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 8:07 am

OK, good to know
I do have a glimmer of hope deep down you know but try to stick to reality of what OG are saying. I really don't think they are clever enough for double bluffs, I imagine the first,  ie abduction, is taxing enough.
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Re:BREAKING NEWS ON BBC-Madeleine McCann case :Police team cut to four.

Post  costello on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 8:23 am

The Sun Thursday October 29, 2015.

MADDIE SQUAD IS CUT TO 4.
By Mike Sullivan.

Family fears end of hunt.

Scotland Yard's four year search for Madeleine McCann is to be drastically scaled back.
Its team of officers will be cut from 29 to four, delivering a huge blow to parents Kate
and Gerry.They fear the move signals "the beginning of the end"for the investigation, it
was claimed last night. A source close to Kate and Gerry said:"They know it can't go on forever.They're preparing for it to shelved for good in coming months." The Met has
spent almost £11million of public money on Operation Grange since it was launched in May 2011 at David Cameron's request. At its height, the investigation had more than 40 officers, but did not make any arrests. Kate and Gerry, of Rothley Leics, believe
their daughter, who vanished from the family's holiday apartment aged three in
Portugal in 2007, may still be alive. She would now be 12. They are thought to be
considering financing the hunt from the Find Maddie Fund if the reduced Yard probe
fizzles out entirely. The couple both 47, said in a statement "We remain hopeful that
she may still be found given the ongoing lines of enquiry." Announcing the cut in
officers the Met said "The investigation continues but with a smaller team." It added
"They are now following a small number of focused lines of inquiry that have allowed
them to reduce the size of the Home Office funded team." The McCann family spokesman Clarence Mitchell said "This is not the end of Operation Grange."
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Re: BREAKING NEWS ON BBC - Madeleine McCann case: Police team cut to four

Post  Honeyblade on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 8:24 am

I have faith .. They will go for what they know they have enough evidence to have a realistic chance of conviction ...at least that's what I keep telling myself!
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Re: BREAKING NEWS ON BBC - Madeleine McCann case: Police team cut to four

Post  canada12 on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 8:47 am

My own opinion is that OG has been investigating "all" lines of inquiry and "all" of the evidence that has been presented, to see whether there is enough evidence to lead to a possible conviction should they decide to issue arrest warrants.

In the absence of enough evidence to result in a conviction in the disappearance / possible death of Madeleine, my opinion is that OG will pursue arrests regarding fraud, to do with The Fund.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS ON BBC - Madeleine McCann case: Police team cut to four

Post  Jellybot on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 8:48 am

Unsurprisingly the MCs do not expect the police to solve the crime! (Expecting a shelving)
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Re: BREAKING NEWS ON BBC - Madeleine McCann case: Police team cut to four

Post  niklasericson on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 9:45 am

"Whilst we do not know what happened to Madeleine, we remain hopeful that she may still be found given the ongoing lines of enquiry."

What?
The McCanns don't know?
What about the "bastards" and the Pedophiles?


Last word deleted. Please don't use that name in this context.

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Re: BREAKING NEWS ON BBC - Madeleine McCann case: Police team cut to four

Post  nobodythereeither on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 10:12 am

Jellybot wrote:
Bampots wrote:Jellybot

.......... have faith in the Portuguese investigation but seriously doubt whether extradition would be allowed by UK gov


But Portugal could use a European Arrest warrant which fast tracks the extradition process and requires no hard fast evidence of guilt. This could be contested but it would be really strange if that succeeded.
OK, good to know
I do have a glimmer of hope deep down you know but try to stick to reality of what OG are saying. I really don't think they are clever enough for double bluffs, I imagine the first,  ie abduction, is taxing enough.



So you think the Met were very publicly and at huge expense digging up various areas of ground looking for abductors? Really?

And obviously they are going to treat the McCanns at this very sensitive stage as if they were completely innocent and not suspected of anything at all, just as the police do other suspects in similar cases. What do you imagine they should do, release a statement saying "We're not going to ask the McCanns to comment because we think they're as guilty as hell"?!

If they haven't got sufficient evidence yet for a prosecution, here or in Portugal, that is another matter. If that's the case, it doesn't mean it's due to incompetence or a cover-up or political influences. It means just that. Clearly whoever committed whatever crime/s was/were committed went to very great lengths to destroy evidence, otherwise this would have been solved years ago.

Let's hope they have sufficient evidence. They've clearly gone to very great lengths to eliminate all other possibilities which might be brought up by the defence at a trial.

ETA: I am interested in what will be Clarence Mitchell's position if/when the McCanns are brought to trial.

Will he be "astounded"? (won't look good if he didn't smell any rats). Will he be "well I did always think there was something not quite right, but hey I continued to do their PR for them anyway"? (won't look good either).

Can't see how he could come out of it well either way.


Last edited by nobodythereeither on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 10:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: BREAKING NEWS ON BBC - Madeleine McCann case: Police team cut to four

Post  gbwales on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 10:27 am

Jellybot wrote:they issue a statement which blatantly excludes MCs as suspects - as this one does by including an official statement from them in the met statement

Excluding the McCanns as suspects and including a quote from them in a press release are not identical kinds of thing in any way whatsoever, and cannot be logically conflated to mean the same thing.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS ON BBC - Madeleine McCann case: Police team cut to four

Post  gbwales on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 10:32 am

canada12 wrote:My own opinion is that OG has been investigating "all" lines of inquiry and "all" of the evidence that has been presented, to see whether there is enough evidence to lead to a possible conviction should they decide to issue arrest warrants.

In the absence of enough evidence to result in a conviction in the disappearance / possible death of Madeleine, my opinion is that OG will pursue arrests regarding fraud, to do with The Fund.

I tend to agree with you on case-building.
I think that the explicit listing of huge numbers and stats is very supportive of trying to build a watertight case in itself - and also demonstrating evidence that every possible lead has been followed up and eliminated.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS ON BBC - Madeleine McCann case: Police team cut to four

Post  nobodythereeither on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 10:39 am

Yes, exactly. Pre-empting any future defence allegations that there are unfollowed possibilities, quite apart from eliminating them to help solve the case.

And after all that elimination, what is left is what is now being focused on.

Fingers crossed.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS ON BBC - Madeleine McCann case: Police team cut to four

Post  PMR on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 10:43 am

I agree with Canada 12 ,GBWales and Nobody there I think that the police have been closing all the gaps so the defence can not bring in any alternatives to create doubt in a jury
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Re: BREAKING NEWS ON BBC - Madeleine McCann case: Police team cut to four

Post  PMR on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 10:45 am

Jellybot wrote:
Bampots wrote:Jellybot

.......... have faith in the Portuguese investigation but seriously doubt whether extradition would be allowed by UK gov


But Portugal could use a European Arrest warrant which fast tracks the extradition process and requires no hard fast evidence of guilt. This could be contested but it would be really strange if that succeeded.
OK, good to know
I do have a glimmer of hope deep down you know but try to stick to reality of what OG are saying. I really don't think they are clever enough for double bluffs, I imagine the first,  ie abduction, is taxing enough.
Bit of an unfair generalisation about the police there isn't there ?
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Re: BREAKING NEWS ON BBC - Madeleine McCann case: Police team cut to four

Post  Poe on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 11:00 am

Clarence Mitchell on the BBC website: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34662454

If you don't wants to click the link, search "bbc.co.uk Madeleine" the video is on the first link on Google.

Click on the photo of CM with an arrow in the corner to watch the video.

To me he doesn't have the confidence of someone who is expecting a whitewash or shelving, he looks haunted like his entire world could come crashing down around his ears at any moment.

(Sorry I can't insert the video as it's flash rather than YouTube so beyond my technical capabilities)
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Re: BREAKING NEWS ON BBC - Madeleine McCann case: Police team cut to four

Post  joyce1938 on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 11:06 am

I just hope that anything we have said over and over again, would not make it difficult to prosecute anyone . joyce1938
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Re: BREAKING NEWS ON BBC - Madeleine McCann case: Police team cut to four

Post  Bampots on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 11:08 am

Mmmmm... Kind of Poe.....not convinced he looks worried. There was one yesterday where he looked ruffled.
Also to be noted that he is outside Scotland Yard looking as if he just been in! You do have to doff your bowler to him on occasions........

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Re: BREAKING NEWS ON BBC - Madeleine McCann case: Police team cut to four

Post  Poe on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 11:15 am



Yep, he definitely looks a tad ruffled.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS ON BBC - Madeleine McCann case: Police team cut to four

Post  Honeyblade on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 11:31 am

No evidence to suggest she came to harm that night ?...a whaaaa...the hand gestures desperately trying to enforce the words .. Yep he's ruffled alright bet there was a fair bit of spit flying then ;0
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Re: BREAKING NEWS ON BBC - Madeleine McCann case: Police team cut to four

Post  Cristobell on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 11:35 am

Poe wrote:

Yep, he definitely looks a tad ruffled.



Blimey! Definitely bothered and bewildered, though to be fair, he didn't have much to work with. He looks as though he, and his clients, are most definitely now out of the loop.
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Re: BREAKING NEWS ON BBC - Madeleine McCann case: Police team cut to four

Post  Honeyblade on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 11:41 am

Doesn't he just ... That was spin on a sixpence mode.. Perhaps TM didn't know about yesterday's press release ...I'm not giving up on OG yet ...
@cristobel hope you're ok and not letting things get to you ..liked your new blog by the way xx
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Re: BREAKING NEWS ON BBC - Madeleine McCann case: Police team cut to four

Post  Bampots on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 11:49 am

I must admit Cristobell , today's blog unraveling yesterday's statement was nothing if not insightful. You have certainly raised my hopes somewhat. I do at times get bogged down with conspiracy being afoot everywhere in this nuthouse of a tragedy. I posted that missing people bit containing Lady Myers,Branson,Lorraine etc and thought why would they all back Kate if it was thought her tea was out! Of course it could just be that they have all just been taken in. Good piece C.

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Re: BREAKING NEWS ON BBC - Madeleine McCann case: Police team cut to four

Post  candyfloss on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 11:50 am

Honeyblade wrote:Doesn't he just ... That was spin on a sixpence mode.. Perhaps TM didn't know about yesterday's press release ...I'm not giving up on OG yet ...
@cristobel hope you're ok and not letting things get to you ..liked your new blog by the way xx

Haven't read it , as busy with arrangements etc...


Cristobell Author ‏@RosalindaHu ·
MADELEINE #MCCANN
MET PRESS RELEASE
ONE INTERPRETATION
http://cristobell.blogspot.co.uk/






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Re: BREAKING NEWS ON BBC - Madeleine McCann case: Police team cut to four

Post  Cristobell on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 11:54 am

Many thanks Candyfloss, that was kind. Hope you are bearing up and able to rest a little.

Meanwhile, I have no problem if anyone wants to c/p Met press release blog over to here. Smile
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Re: BREAKING NEWS ON BBC - Madeleine McCann case: Police team cut to four

Post  Bampots on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 11:57 am

Well worth bringing this over!
http://cristobell.blogspot.co.uk
MET PRESS RELEASE - MADELEINE McCANN - ONE INTERPRETATION


The Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) has today, 28 October announced the new structure and changes to the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

The investigation into what happened to Madeleine continues but with a smaller team of officers. Officers investigating her disappearance have completed the huge task of bringing together and investigating the massive amount of information held by colleagues in Portugal, the United Kingdom investigation and the private investigators working on behalf of the McCann family.
They are now following a small number of focused lines of inquiry that have allowed them to reduce the size of the Home Office funded team.

Or:

Our work is done.  The Metropolitan police have acceded to each and every one of the parents' demands (see letter to PM front page The Sun), they have brought together all the evidence and information, something the McCanns were demanding when they were doing their fundraising tour in November 2010, and they have examined it as a 'whole'.  Job done or alternately, box ticked.  

Detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann in May 2007 have been working through material and following investigative inquiries since the Home Office requested a review of the case in May 2011.

For those who weren't aware, they have been investigating this case since May 2011.

Operation Grange is working to support the Portuguese investigation and this work continues.  

The word 'working to support' is significant, it acknowledges that the Portuguese have primacy and 'working' is a 'doing' word, it implies activity.  The word 'continues' is ambiguous.  Does the work of the Portuguese continue, or the support from the UK?  Matters not, for suspects involved in this heinous crime, I suspect those words will be unsettling.

While there remain lines of inquiry to follow, the vast majority of the work by Operation Grange has been completed.

Again, not the words a suspect wants to hear.  They are two clipboards away from a wrap.  

This work included reviewing all the material relating to the case which were brought together for the first time and amounted to collating over 40,000 documents from United Kingdom and foreign law enforcement agencies, as well as various private investigation companies.
Officers worked meticulously through the information. Some of the material had to be translated into English, facts had to be cross-referred and diligently analysed to ensure an oversight of what the MPS was examining and to search for new lines of inquiry.

Stick that in your Defence pipe and smoke it.  

Once this work had been completed the review became a full investigation in July 2012.
The investigation team has taken 1,338 statements and collected 1,027 exhibits. Having reviewed all of the documents, 7,154 actions were raised and 560 lines of enquiry identified, and over thirty international request to countries across the world asking for work to be undertaken on behalf of the Met.  

We know everyone is going to be screaming for a breakdown on where the £10m went, but meanwhile here are some figures to play with.  

Officers have investigated more than 60 persons of interest. A total of 650 sex offenders have also been considered as well as reports of 8,685 potential sightings of Madeleine around the world.
The Grange team received on average two hundred emails a week, and following the media appeal in October 2013 across three countries, received over 7,000 responses.  

Absolutely, no stone has been left unturned, Get it!  Every suspect thrown up by the three different branches of this investigation (PJ, Private Eyes and UK police) has been thoroughly investigated.  No socially inept dirty rainmac enthusiast has had his porn stash unscrutinised.  Every weirdo on 3 continents has accounted for their sleazy whereabouts on the evening of May 3rd. There is quite literally no-one left.    


For an investigation of this size, the extraordinary circumstances of investigating a missing child four years later in another country, the vast wealth of information and theories, it was always going to be an immense task and required a full team of 29 staff working on it.  

A lot more explanation will of course be needed there, if they are to convince us that chasing spotty men, smelly men and long deceased men was a valid use of police resources.  Especially as there was no evidence whatsoever that the child had been abducted.  Unhappily for OG, they, like the PJ before them, have had to sift through mountains of paperwork amassed by the parents' constant appeals for help.  They actually have my sympathy on this, bombarding an investigating police force with thousands of sightings and false information from the gullible and the cranks is a good way to keep them otherwise occupied.  Should add, I suspect 199 of those 200 emails a week probably come from Bennett.  

With the significant amount of work approaching completion, as with all investigations the MPS has reviewed the staff required to progress the remaining work.  

Understandable. It's been 4 years.  

A team of four officers will continue to work solely on the Grange investigation, funded by the Home Office. The enquiry has not reached a conclusion, there are still focused lines of investigation to be pursued.  

Ahha, this is where it gets interesting.  A team of four officers will continue.  Why would OG need to retain a team of 4 officers working solely for OG, if the suspects were non British? The crime took place in Portugal.  

The focused lines of investigation, will not reassure the parents. There is not so much as a hint of the word abduction, nor any mention of looking for a live child.  

The officers will continue to be overseen by Detective Chief Inspector Nicola Wall, the current senior investigating officer, and sit within an existing major investigation team on the Homicide and Major Crime Command. This will give them access to officers within that team should they be required to support further operational activity.

Ooooh, again very uncomfortable reading for a suspect.  'And sit within an existing major investigation team......'.  To me that suggests Operation Grange are part of a major investigation that goes beyond the events in PDL, and beyond the parents. And they have access to the 'A' team officers should they be required.  Oooer.  

Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley, from the MPS said: "The Met investigation has been painstaking and thorough and has for the first time brought together in one place what was disparate information across the world.  

Yeh, we got that, but again, given that the abduction story was as flimsy and unbelievable as Bobby Ewing waking up in the shower 2 years later, some might think you nincompoops for chasing NON existent abductors.  One might even ask if you investigated the claimed alien sightings as well? Or God forbid, the ones claimed by psychic visionaries or seen by fruitloops with crystal balls.  

"This work has enabled us to better understand events in Praia da Luz the night Madeleine McCann went missing and ensure every possible measure is being taken to find out what happened to her.   [remember this actual SY quote when you read quote from K&G]

Not giving up.  

"We still have very definite lines to pursue which is why we are keeping a dedicated team of officers working on the case. We have given this assurance to Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann.

Very definite lines to pursue.  Ouch.  And that's why they are keeping a dedicated team.  They have assured Kate and Gerry, because going by their past behaviour, they will scream from the rooftops that they (Madeleine) has been abandoned if the Met are not seen to be placating them.  While this status quo exists, the McCanns can't take over the investigation/search themselves. Whilst they were brazen enough to try and usurp the police in Portugal, they wouldn't dare do it here.  

"The Portuguese police remain the lead investigators and our team will continue to support their inquiry. They have extended every courtesy to Operation Grange and we maintain a close working relationship. I know they remain fully committed to investigating Madeleine's disappearance with support from the Metropolitan Police.

The ball appears to be back in the Portuguese court.  Operation Grange have completed their side of the investigation and it would appear are waiting for instructions from the Portuguese.  

"The Met was asked to take on this exceptional case as one of national interest. We were happy to bring our expertise to bear only on the basis that it would not detract from the policing of London; and the Home Office have additionally funded the investigation above normal grants to the Met. That will continue at the reduced level.

Who did the asking?  Was the 'asking', the very staged public appeal by the parents splashed across the front page of the Sun, or did the 'asking' come from Portugal or from political spinmeisters in Whitehall with enemies to destroy?  

And of course, we mustn't forget the obvious question, what was so important about this particular missing child that required the full time services of 29 homicide officers for 4 years.  29 officers taken away from London policing whatever way you look at it.    

"I have overseen this investigation since 2012 and am very grateful for the enormous assistance of the media and public so far which, through the appeals, have generated new information and lines of Inquiry. "  

Why, why, why, when the object of your Inquiry was directly in front of you!  But, don't answer, save all this for later date, I still have faith in you and don't want to distract anything!

Our decision and rationale has been discussed with Mr and Mrs McCann.

Our decision.  You presented it to them as fait accompli, they had no choice.  Kudos.

Mr and Mrs McCann said: "We would like to thank all the staff from Operation Grange for the meticulous and painstaking work that they have carried out over the last four and a half years. The scale and difficulty of their task has never been in doubt.
 
You betcha.  We saw the truck loads of box files.  

"We are reassured that the investigation to find Madeleine has been significantly progressed and the MPS has a much clearer picture of the events in Praia da Luz leading up to Madeleine's abduction in 2007.

Note the subtle change, the McCanns addition of the words 'leading up to'. Scotland Yard (see above) clearly said 'events in Paia da Luz the night Madeleine went missing'.  The words 'leading up to', puts an entirely different spin on Scotland Yard's statement. It suggests OG are going with Kate's 'someone was watching us' theory rather than looking at them. Scotland Yard's statement could of course, be interpreted as they are focusing on the events of the night of May 3rd.  Much as Goncalo Amaral was doing when he was removed from the case.    

"Given that the review phase of the investigation is essentially completed, we fully understand the reasons why the team is being reduced.  

They accept the police can do no more?  Just like that?  Where are the cries of Madeleine wants and needs to be found, we are never giving up.  This half arsed statement is one of acceptance.  Obviously, they cannot twist the actual words of OG, but they could have added, that they still remain hopeful Madeleine will found, or even have sent a message to tell her they were still looking.  

"We would also like to thank the Home Office for continuing to support the investigation.
"Whilst we do not know what happened to Madeleine, we remain hopeful that she may still be found given the ongoing lines of enquiry. "  

Ahh, so now they remain hopeful she may be found, but they have linked it to imply that the ongoing lines of enquiry suggest she might be.  Naughty, naughty, but they were clutching at straws.

The remaining Operation Grange officers will be deployed to other enquiries within Specialist Crime and Operations.

[/quote]
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Re: BREAKING NEWS ON BBC - Madeleine McCann case: Police team cut to four

Post  gbwales on Thu 29 Oct 2015, 12:14 pm

Honeyblade wrote:No evidence to suggest she came to harm that night ?...a whaaaa...the hand gestures desperately trying to enforce the words .. Yep he's ruffled alright bet there was a fair bit of spit flying then ;0

He even starts off that sentence with a weird remark/leak about 'no evidence of what happened that night' before abandoning it for "she's probably fine" approach....
I'm staggered that journalists don't say "Really?????" whenever that line about the lack of evidence of harm is spoken. To me it's the most unnatural response imaginable. A parent should be out of their mind with worry *not knowing* anything about the state of their child - both in the early days - and now.

Anyway, I remain optimistic from the press release, and these clips.

@ Cristobell. Enjoyed the blog. Smile
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