The Lord Lucan mystery

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Re: The Lord Lucan mystery

Post  Mimi on Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:14 pm

Agree - why come out with all that now - it`s private.

Although I would say it`s not unusual to find relationships like that and is a need within both parties. I`m sure it`s part of her psychology to be the victim. (Tin hat on).  I`m convinced we know another couple with a similar psychology.

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Re: The Lord Lucan mystery

Post  Freedom on Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:56 pm

https://www.itv.com/hub/lord-lucan-my-husband-the-truth/2a4814a0001

Here's the programme - there wasn't much that was toe-curlingly embarrassing after all.
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Re: The Lord Lucan mystery

Post  poster on Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:04 pm

Freedom wrote:https://www.itv.com/hub/lord-lucan-my-husband-the-truth/2a4814a0001

Here's the programme - there wasn't much that was toe-curlingly embarrassing after all.

I thought Lady Lucan came over pretty well. No wonder she was depressed he was the husband from hell. Good looking, yes, but in an evil-looking kind of way. He sounded like a terrible husband and father. No wonder she was depressed. She even looks depressed on her wedding day.

Despite her husband's attempts to medicalize her, get her pyschiatric treatment and even get her sectioned I would say that is was Lord Lucan who was the nutter. She seems perfectly sane. She made a very unfortunate choice of husband and no doubt has to live with the guilt of knowing that given a better choice of husband her children's lives would have been very, very different plus a young women's life would not have been brutally snuffed out.

Lucan's friends come over as pretty ghastly too especially the Shand-Kydds. What a chinless wonder he is and quite dim. I don't for a minute believe they think he is innocent and his story of 'saving' his wife from the nanny's attacker is just nonsense, as GM might say.

If it is true that he intended to murder his wife but mistook the nanny for her then he must have had to do some very quick thinking that fateful evening. On the other hand, perhaps a hit man had been instructed to kill the wife and when Lucan realized he had killed the wrong woman, Lucan let himself into the house - using the pretense of seeing an attack in the basement - and decided to do the job himself. Plus prevent his wife from seeing the dead nanny.

Lady Lucan managed to keep a cool head, grab him in his most sensitive place, and then play him at his own game to buy time. Presumably Lucan was in a panic by this stage. The wrong woman had been killed, his wife knew that he also wanted to kill her. How would he get away with this given that his three children were all upstairs and one of the children had seen the pair coming back into the room with Lady Lucan covered in blood? How on earth to explain all that away? He could hardly risk his wife's screams coming from the bedroom knowing that their three children were nearby and at least one of them was awake.

Perhaps Lord Lucan thought it prudent to go from room to room calling out for his wife as he thought she might have taken refuge in a child's room, particularly the eldest daughter, for instance? Or he wanted the eldest daughter to hear him softly calling out for her as though trying to protect her from the marauding attacker.

It is incredible that he managed to get away with this crime as the evidence is so strong against him. Poor Lady Lucan and her children, what a dreadful man. Addicted to gambling and alcohol and determined to ruin his wife's life. He effectively ruined his children's lives too.

(Now, who else made an exceedingly poor choice of husband, imo?)

The only bit I didn't believe was Lady Lucan's account of how she thought her husband had thrown himself into the sea from the ferry to be chopped up by the propellers. I thought that was a daft suggestion and I wonder if she even believed it herself? He would have used his connections to flee the country and was able to obtain a false identity, imo. He could still be alive, certainly not impossible.
And despite the headlines of the papers, I doubt Lady Lucan gave that interview to 'get back at' her estranged son. She gave her side of the story. The part I don't understand is why at the end she called Lord Lucan an 'honourable' man which is why she thinks he killed himself that night. He was not an honourable man and he fled the scene of the crime. Not only that he made sure his children were taken away from their mother. Those are not the actions of an 'honourable' man.
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Re: The Lord Lucan mystery

Post  Freedom on Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:31 pm

Yes, that more or less covers what I thought.

She may have some sort of personality disorder in that, as she said, all her relationships have been cold. She was asked if she missed her children when she and her husband were swanning off abroad and she said no because she knew they were safe with the nanny; not the question that was asked!

She doesn't seem to have had much of a relationship right from the start with them so I suspect it wasn't that much of a wrench when they went to live with her sister. Presumably she could have visited them if she wanted to?
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Re: The Lord Lucan mystery

Post  Andrew on Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:56 pm

... I thought Lord Lucan was shacked up in Jill Haverns pad alongside PeterMac.. scratch
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Re: The Lord Lucan mystery

Post  Freedom on Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:01 pm

I have to say that I haven't heard of that possibility before........
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Re: The Lord Lucan mystery

Post  Mimi on Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:12 pm

Just watched it on catch-up.

How sad.

We obviously haven`t heard the children`s side of the story. It would be interesting to know why they have detached from her - it`s a very harsh thing to do to their mother even if she wasn`t a very good mother.

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Re: The Lord Lucan mystery

Post  poster on Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:48 pm

Freedom wrote:Yes, that more or less covers what I thought.

She may have some sort of personality disorder in that, as she said, all her relationships have been cold. She was asked if she missed her children when she and her husband were swanning off abroad and she said no because she knew they were safe with the nanny; not the question that was asked!

She doesn't seem to have had much of a relationship right from the start with them so I suspect it wasn't that much of a wrench when they went to live with her sister. Presumably she could have visited them if she wanted to?

Agreed. Both the parents were also brought up by nannies I would imagine as was the habit of the upper classes at the time as well as sending boys away to boarding school aged 7. Parental emotional detachment to children was practically encouraged. Lord Lucan comes over as a particularly cold individual (almost evil-looking, imo) whereas she I would think was identified by him as being 'wife' material - malleable, emotionally perhaps vulnerable, he probably realized early on he could brow-beat her and throw the 'unfit mother' card around.

A sad story all round really.

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Re: The Lord Lucan mystery

Post  Freedom on Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:40 am

I'll put the report on Lady Lucan's death here as well as on the celebrity deaths topic.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-41409597
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Re: The Lord Lucan mystery

Post  poster on Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:48 pm

Freedom wrote:I'll put the report on Lady Lucan's death here as well as on the celebrity deaths topic.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-41409597

I wonder what she died of? She looked reasonably well in that interview not that long ago.

On reflection I would say this case is a classic case of a battered wife. Lady Lucan states that her husband used to beat her then have intercouse with her. Unless this was consensual (which it clearly wasn't - at least not the beating) then this is physical, emotional and probably also sexual abuse, imo.

Abuse knows no class boundaries and if you strip away the title, the money and the high level connections you are left with an alcoholic thug who was squandering the family money in the twin addictions of alcohol and gambling who beat up and tried to kill his wife and neglected his children.

And got way with it to the point where his wife lost custody of the children to a member of his own family who must have known that he was an abusive thug.

Amazing what you can get away with if you know the right people.

As stated upthread, the poor woman even looks depressed on her wedding day. I would say she suffered from low self-esteem and lived in a time and within a culture where women in particular were supposed to put up and shut up -and lie back and think of England. Divorce was still taboo then and women (and no doubt men too) could be guilted into staying  in a marriage not just for the sake of the children but also to 'keep up appearances' and protect the reputation of the offending spouse.

I really do believe this was a text-book case of an abused spouse and were it not for the title, money and connections social services would have been involved.

Poor woman, she got landed a dud in the husband department, imo. Now what other case does that remind me of?

And before I get pulled up on gender issues I fully accept that women can be abusive too and husbands or male partners can equally be abused by their wives or girlfriends. But due  to a number of factors including cultural ones women are much more likely to seek refuge from abusive partners

All my own opinions as always.

ETA: notice how in the interview Lady Lucan states that he could have hit her harder. At first glance this gives the impression that she is implying that he really wasn't all that bad as at least he didn't hit her really hard. But if you put what she says in the context of a physically abusive relationship then I would suggest that the reason her husband didn't hit her harder was because that would have left evidence. Evidence that would have been compelling in a divorce case and evidence that far from treating his 'emotionally unstable' wife who apparently didn't care adequately for his children with the kindness and care she deserved he himself was a major contributor to the problem. His eyes give him away, imo.... now who else does that remind me of?
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Re: The Lord Lucan mystery

Post  poster on Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:18 pm

Her son has made a comment - ill-advised, imo. I wonder who the 'companion' was who reported the three day absence? Doesn't a companion live under the same roof? Who was absent for three days? Lady Lucan or the companion?
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Re: The Lord Lucan mystery

Post  poster on Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:50 pm

Okay I will put my tin hat on and ask is it just a coincidence that Lady Lucan just so happens to die suddenly just months after having spoken out? Yes, I know she was old but if the friend who she had daily walks with reported her absence then that suggests she was in reasonable health. Of course old people and indeed younger people can and do die suddenly but it is more common to have a deterioration over a period of months and even years.

Was it the Met police that were involved in the Lord Lucan investigation? I have to say that Lucan's version of events is about as convincing as GM's version of events. Lucan 'just happens' to walk by and see his wife being attacked in the basement and just happens to have keys to the house in his hands and so goes to the rescue of the woman who he is fighting a custody battle with over their children and who he deems an unfit mother?

Yeah, right...was he also on a white charger and carrying a first aid kit?
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Re: The Lord Lucan mystery

Post  Helenmeg on Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:34 pm

poster wrote:Her son has made a comment - ill-advised, imo. I wonder who the 'companion' was who reported the three day absence? Doesn't a companion live under the same roof? Who was absent for three days? Lady Lucan or the companion?
The companion was her friend Basia Briggs ( see Daily Mail online).

I corresponded with Lady Lucan a number of times via e-mail - she was always very polite and friendly. I am surprised she has died as her latest appearance on TV  showed a woman who appeared to be in good health. But who knows what was wrong...
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Re: The Lord Lucan mystery

Post  Freedom on Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:39 pm

That sounds intriguing. Are you able to say what you e-mailed her about? Okay of course if you can't.
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Re: The Lord Lucan mystery

Post  Mimi on Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:45 pm

They interviewed the fellow that did the documentary with her on Radio 4 just now and he said he bumped into her in a park/gardens in Belgravia a couple of weeks ago and she was sitting on a park bench with two blokes who were both consuming bottles of cider. He said `Hello Veronica, how are you` and she replied `Very well thank you`.

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Re: The Lord Lucan mystery

Post  Helenmeg on Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:29 pm

Freedom wrote:That sounds intriguing. Are you able to say what you e-mailed her about? Okay of course if you can't.
It was pretty brief Freedom but I was pleased to have a reply from her...


I just e-mailed her having watched a program about the Lucan case... (not the latest). I was just intrigued and interested in how she was these days. I never expected a reply and was surprised to receive one!
But she was polite and pleasant and brief!!

'Thank you very much for your kind and  encouraging email.  It was very good of you to take the time

to write to me.  Best wishes for a very happy Christmas and a good 2014.'


I then sent another wondering if she'd let me paint her portrait!!

This was her answer..'Dear Helen,

You are obviously a talented woman if the portrait you sent was painted by you and of course I assume it is!

I also paint in oils and have painted  portrait of myself wearing 19th Century Court Dress but unfortunately I have not mastered the internet well enough to send it to you.

I cannot agree unfortunately to  have a portrait of myself painted by you but I am so pleased that you wrote another email to me.

Best wishes.'


ETA - I am an amateur in art - but I thought it'd be great to scoop a portrait of her!! I was a bit cheeky there..
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Re: The Lord Lucan mystery

Post  Mimi on Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:55 pm

Did you paint the fairy in your avatar Helenmeg ?

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Re: The Lord Lucan mystery

Post  poster on Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:34 am

Helenmeg wrote:
Freedom wrote:That sounds intriguing. Are you able to say what you e-mailed her about? Okay of course if you can't.
It was pretty brief Freedom but I was pleased to have a reply from her...


I just e-mailed her having watched a program about the Lucan case... (not the latest). I was just intrigued and interested in how she was these days. I never expected a reply and was surprised to receive one!
But she was polite and pleasant and brief!!

'Thank you very much for your kind and  encouraging email.  It was very good of you to take the time

to write to me.  Best wishes for a very happy Christmas and a good 2014.'


I then sent another wondering if she'd let me paint her portrait!!

This was her answer..'Dear Helen,

You are obviously a talented woman if the portrait you sent was painted by you and of course I assume it is!

I also paint in oils and have painted  portrait of myself wearing 19th Century Court Dress but unfortunately I have not mastered the internet well enough to send it to you.

I cannot agree unfortunately to  have a portrait of myself painted by you but I am so pleased that you wrote another email to me.

Best wishes.'


ETA - I am an amateur in art - but I thought it'd be great to scoop a portrait of her!!  I was a bit cheeky there..

How intriguing! I think she would have been a wonderful subject for a portrait - her face is so expressive especially in old age. In her younger years her face was more like a mask although I do think she looks utterly miserable on her wedding day. What I find of interest is that she was introduced to Lucan by her sister and her sister's husband. The very couple who eventually gained custody of her own children I do believe? One does wonder about Lady Lucan's sister? Did she have any sense of loyalty to her sibling? Did she believe Lord Lucan's version of events? There is something so dark about all this - it really is the stuff of fairytales, imo, complete with a cast of wicked step-mothers, Cinderella and big bad bogeymen.

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Re: The Lord Lucan mystery

Post  poster on Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:04 pm

I notice that the statement from the family says she struggled with mental infirmity. What a cheek! Who wouldn't after all she went through. She struck me as quite sane in that interview, if misguided as to her husband's demise and his honour.
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