The 9/11 attacks

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Re: The 9/11 attacks

Post  Thetruth on Wed 26 Nov 2014, 8:19 am

And from the same article is the corollary with the Mac case

"There are even more bizarre conspiracy theories that pin the collapse of the Twin Towers’ on supposed “high-tech weapons” – such as laser beams originating from space for example. Of course, none of these conspiracy theorists actually ever agree with one another and they focus their time not only on accusing the US Government of having been the main culprit behind 9/11, but they also accuse each other of “muddying the waters of the truth”. The problem with all these conspiracy theorists in general is that they do not really know what happened to the World Trade Center and, more importantly, they don’t know why it happened."

Muddying the waters of truth and thus losing the plot, so they don't know why it happened. This is where we are I suggest.

I will leave to you all to suggest how the waters are being muddied...

The more we disappear into the minutiae the happier They are.

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Re: The 9/11 attacks

Post  Freedom on Sat 27 Dec 2014, 8:55 am

It is dreadful to think that events like 9/11 and 7/7 could have been carried out by anyone other than the handful of people whom we are told were responsible. It certainly would be more reassuring to believe that the official stories are true and that these horrors could not have been foreseen and stopped.

However, you only have to look at the evidence in front of your eyes - particularly with 9/11 - to know that things could not be as we were told.

I do agree though that, on the subject of paedophilia for example, the media does go overboard and I do not believe that it's rife everywhere.
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Re: The 9/11 attacks

Post  Guest on Sat 27 Dec 2014, 9:32 am

Thomas Baden-Riess wrote:

For me 9/11 was the ultimate science education fail. If we had a proper education system, every science student, teacher and academic, would have stood up at the moment the planes went through the building, or when the towers fell, and said 'hang on, I'm not buying this'.

Just to pick up on this,I'm not of a scientific bent,so therefore you could explain away a theory on how the towers were brought down until the cows come home,but if I don't understand the science and I'm sure millions of us don't then that is just another conspiracy.

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Re: The 9/11 attacks

Post  Guest on Sat 27 Dec 2014, 9:46 am

sure caricature I understand your point and a lot of good PR works by using scientific language to talk scientific drivel, and thereby convince people who are not in the know. I would be the same with technology or computers for example, I could easily be 'dazzled with jargon'.  

But what you have to believe is that every A-level student and Science graduate should have spotted the FLAWS of the official version. In fact trying to understand what actually went on requires deep engineering or scientific insight; and even debunking some of the official version requires knowledge of material science that I don't have.

But two principles -- transference of momentum and Newton's third law -- can be used to say the official version is wrong. And every good science student knows these principles. So what are we talking about? Maybe 30% of the population.

Incidentally, other issues -- like 7 of the alleged hijackers turning up alive -- can indicate to non-scientists that something is not right.

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Re: The 9/11 attacks

Post  Guest on Sat 27 Dec 2014, 9:58 am

Thomas Baden-Riess wrote:
Incidentally, other issues -- like 7 of the alleged hijackers turning up alive -- can indicate to non-scientists that something is not right.

Not heard that one before,but I think I'm right in thinking there is no film of the first plane hitting the tower or is there?

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Re: The 9/11 attacks

Post  Freedom on Sat 27 Dec 2014, 10:09 am

Yes there is; it was caught on a documentary being made about the work of a fire crew. I'll add a link later.

What caught my attention was that the fire crew immediately rushed to the scene and the ground floor of the building was wrecked. Yet at this point there had only been an impact some 80 floors up - how could that have left the ground floor looking as if a bomb had hit it?
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Re: The 9/11 attacks

Post  Guest on Sat 27 Dec 2014, 10:15 am

@caricature. Here is the film:

I think what you're thinking of, is that this was not on live TV like the second one, and indeed the video only surfaced, I think, a day later. For that reason, many people were surprised when George Bush said, on that first day, that he saw a plane go through the first building.

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Re: The 9/11 attacks

Post  Freedom on Sat 27 Dec 2014, 10:29 am

I don't think that George Bush's comment about seeing the first plane live on TV has any significance. He quite literally didn't know what day it was even at the best of times.

I feel sure that he meant to say that he saw the second plane.
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Re: The 9/11 attacks

Post  chirpyinsect on Sat 27 Dec 2014, 10:51 am

Freedom here is a short video where he talked about how he came to know about the plane hitting the first tower. He thought it was pilot error. I am quite sure if he had already known about the first plane he would not be describing the second hit as pilot error.

There are pictures of him being told AFTER the second plane hit the tower that America was under attack. He delivered a speech to the children before boarding Airforce 1 to make his way back to Washington.
No mistake. He knew in advance and with his usual aplomb he got it wrong again.
There is also footage of him mention explosives going off when all intelligence is meant to point to the planes being responsible for the destruction



Last edited by Freedom on Sat 27 Dec 2014, 11:29 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : video posted twice in error)
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Re: The 9/11 attacks

Post  Guest on Sat 27 Dec 2014, 10:57 am

Thomas Baden-Riess wrote:@caricature. Here is the film:

I think what you're thinking of, is that this was not on live TV like the second one, and indeed the video only surfaced, I think, a day later. For that reason, many people were surprised when George Bush said, on that first day, that he saw a plane go through the first building.

Thanks for that,they heard a plane and a camera panned to see an explosion,did it show a plane though.

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Re: The 9/11 attacks

Post  Dee Coy on Sat 27 Dec 2014, 10:59 am

caricature wrote:
Thomas Baden-Riess wrote:
Incidentally, other issues -- like 7 of the alleged hijackers turning up alive -- can indicate to non-scientists that something is not right.

Not heard that one before,but I think I'm right in thinking there is no film of the first plane hitting the tower or is there?

I didn't either. Where did these seven men surface? Very interesting.

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Re: The 9/11 attacks

Post  Guest on Sat 27 Dec 2014, 11:03 am

I agree Freedom that Bush could have been mistaken, and indeed I think it's a huge mistake to think he was somehow the mastermind of 9/11 or even that he ever had any real power.

But I agree in general with Chirpy. Why did he not panic when he heard the news and think he himself could be a target? Why did he continue with the lame goat story?

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Re: The 9/11 attacks

Post  Guest on Sat 27 Dec 2014, 11:06 am

@caricature.  Yes I thought that too, though it could have just been the quickness of the plane I suppose. Planes or no planes is a big issue that nobody seems to have the answers to regarding 9/11.

@Deecoy. Here's the link. It was the good old BBC in fact who first reported this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm

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Re: The 9/11 attacks

Post  Dee Coy on Sat 27 Dec 2014, 11:12 am

Well well well. Thanks TBR. How stupid of them to use real identities!

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Re: The 9/11 attacks

Post  Guest on Sat 27 Dec 2014, 11:39 am

Dee Coy wrote:Well well well. Thanks TBR. How stupid of them to use real identities!

What I don't really understand is why they can't make a better job of these things. Bizzarre

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Re: The 9/11 attacks

Post  Freedom on Fri 04 Mar 2016, 9:42 am

I have copied these posts from the Pat Brown topic here.

chirpyinsect wrote:

You don't have to believe 911 stories that is your right and there is a thread somewhere to discuss it so wont hijack the thread with discussions on it except to say my husband was the biggest believer that 911 happened as we were told until I persuaded him to watch a documentary on it.

AndyB wrote:

Just out of interest, which one?

chirpyinsect wrote:

I have literally watched hundreds of hours of video so not entirely certain of the one hubby watched but thus one is a good starting point.

https://youtu.be/hWiusdy1miI
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Re: The 9/11 attacks

Post  Freedom on Fri 04 Mar 2016, 10:22 am

The thing that initially got me thinking that something was wrong was not the collapse of the towers but the story that people on the fourth plane were phoning their relatives and leaving heart-rending messages.

Mobiles don't work from such a high altitude and that started me looking into the whole subject and I realised that everything about the whole story was hokum.
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Re: The 9/11 attacks

Post  Andrew on Fri 04 Mar 2016, 10:30 am

No cctv /cameras outside the Pentagon (well apart from 1 dodgy one) did it for me.
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Re: The 9/11 attacks

Post  chirpyinsect on Fri 04 Mar 2016, 1:23 pm

It used to be something you whispered in case you got accused of being a nutter but as more and more respected and credible voices have joined the truth movement, ie airline pilots, scientists etc it is becoming more unusual to find soneone who believes it happened as tptb claimed. Attar's passport surviving the crash, thermite found in the girders, building 7 collapsing at freefall 20 minutes after it was reported to have fallen, Bush saying he saw the first plane hit on the news when no footage existed of that until next day, Norad stood down, no plane wreckage in Shanksville, and numerous other bits of fakery convinced me.

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Re: The 9/11 attacks

Post  candyfloss on Fri 04 Mar 2016, 2:07 pm

It has convinced many chirpy as you say, but what gets me is why has no one been brought to book for such a heinous crime of perpatrating such a hoax and injuring so many?  People are even now still dying from the effects of the dust etc., so why is this not being investigated thoroughly?  How can you cover up something as big as this with what many believe were lies done in full view and get away with it? scratch

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Re: The 9/11 attacks

Post  chirpyinsect on Fri 04 Mar 2016, 3:03 pm

Fear, coercion, brainwashing....who knows but I certainly believe governments are capable of anything including the sacrifice of its own citizens. As for why it has never been properly investigated, even the 911 commissioners admitted they were set up to fail.
And look how many of those who might have gotten near the truth have met untimely ends.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.libertybylogic.com/mysterious-911-witness-deaths/&ved=0ahUKEwiul96ipqfLAhVpnXIKHdv4AFIQFggbMAA&usg=AFQjCNGLHpslodgWzJ-wxVHOh-xEyT76PA

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Re: The 9/11 attacks

Post  Freedom on Fri 04 Mar 2016, 4:42 pm

Like certain other stories, it simply can't have happened the way we've been told. One oddity maybe you can explain away but there are so many.
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Re: The 9/11 attacks

Post  AndyB on Sat 05 Mar 2016, 7:48 am

chirpyinsect wrote:thermite found in the girders
According to the video that you linked to above (copied in by Freedom) traces of thermAte, the military grade version of thermIte were also found
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Re: The 9/11 attacks

Post  chirpyinsect on Sat 05 Mar 2016, 8:29 am

AndyB wrote:
chirpyinsect wrote:thermite found in the girders
According to the video that you linked to above (copied in by Freedom) traces of thermAte, the military grade version of thermIte were also found

Correct AndyB. I have even had people argue that the terrorists were able to get hold of it and planted the explosives in the towers and other buildings. Funny how the government didn't latch on to that theory but they have never stated that the buildings were pulled.
Silverstein got billions from the insurance companies and he was heard to order WT7 to be "pulled" a demolition term for blow it up.


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Deal of the Year: World Trade Center, New York, NY

Weighing in at $3.2 billion, the acquisition of the 99-year leasehold of the World Trade Center was the largest of the year. "Notwithstanding the emotional difficulty of celebrating anything related to the World Trade Center is the fact that upon completion of its acquisition by Larry Silverstein, it was clearly the deal of the year for the industry, and now more than ever, a deal of [a] lifetime for Silverstein" said Ken Zakin, managing director at Insignia/ESG. [iiRealEstate]

Silverstein Makes a Huge
Profit off of the 9/11 Attacks

Six months before the 9/11 attacks the World Trade Center was "privatized" by being leased to a private sector developer. The lease was purchased by the Silverstein Group for $3.2 billion. "This is a dream come true," Larry Silverstein said. "We will be in control of a prized asset, and we will seek to develop its potential, raising it to new heights."

But the World Trade Towers were not the real estate plum we are led to believe.

From an economic standpoint, the trade center -- subsidized since its inception -- has never functioned, nor was it intended to function, unprotected in the rough-and-tumble real estate marketplace. [BusinessWeek]
How could Silverstein Group have been ignorant of this?

Also, the towers required some $200 million in renovations and improvements, most of which related to removal and replacement of building materials declared to be health hazards in the years since the towers were built.

It was well-known by the city of New York that the WTC was an asbestos bombshell. For years, the Port Authority treated the building like an aging dinosaur, attempting on several occasions to get permits to demolish the building for liability reasons, but being turned down due the known asbestos problem. Further, it was well-known the only reason the building was still standing until 9/11 was because it was too costly to disassemble the twin towers floor by floor since the Port Authority was prohibited legally from demolishing the buildings. [Arctic Beacon]
Other New York developers had been driven into bankruptcy by the costly mandated renovations, and $200 million represented an entire year's worth of revenues from the World Trade Towers.

The perfect collapse of the twin towers changed the picture.

Under a pending agreement, a developer and his investors will get back most of the down payment that they made to lease the World Trade Center just six weeks before a terrorist attack destroyed the twin towers. Developer Larry Silverstein and investors Lloyd Goldman and Joseph Cayre are nearing a deal that would give them about $98 million of their original investment of $124 million, The New York Times reported Saturday. [MontereyHerald 11/22/2003]

Instead of renovation, Silverstein is rebuilding, funded by the insurance coverage on the property which 'fortuitously' covered acts of terrorism. Even better, Silverstein filed TWO insurance claims for the maximum amount of the policy, based on the two, in Silverstein's view, separate attacks. The total potential payout is $7.1 billion, more than enough to build a fabulous new complex and leave a hefty profit for the Silverstein Group, including Larry Silverstein himself.

As reported in The Washington Post, the insurance company, Swiss Re, has gone to court to argue that the 9/11 disaster was only one attack, not two and that therefore the insurance payout should be limited to $3.55 billion, still enough to rebuild the complex.

Update: WTC Leaseholder May Collect Up To $4.6B

A federal jury on Monday ruled that the assault on the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center was in fact two occurrences for insurance purposes. The finding in U.S. District Court in Manhattan means leaseholder Larry Silverstein may collect up to $4.6 billion, according to reports. [Forbes.com 12/06/04]

The result of court ruling: Silverstein makes a huge profit off of the 9/11 attacks.

See also:

Westfield, Silverstein and the WTC Golden Goose
Ground Zero Worker and 9/11 Hero Dying of Cancer From Toxins at WTC

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/silverstein.html&ved=0ahUKEwjM3s7fj6nLAhVHQJoKHW3JDH0QFggbMAA&usg=AFQjCNFM8fT-ho9TkuNX5PhYrW9YHP_cSg


Last edited by chirpyinsect on Sat 05 Mar 2016, 8:30 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typos)

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Re: The 9/11 attacks

Post  candyfloss on Sat 16 Apr 2016, 10:53 am

Obama faces pressure on secret ‘28 pages’ ahead of Saudi trip

As Barack Obama heads to Saudi Arabia next week, the US president is under increasing pressure to declassify redacted pages of a 9/11 report detailing Saudi connections to the attacks.

Secured behind a locked door in a secret vault on Capitol Hill in the heart of Washington, DC sits a 28-page document that only a small group of people have been permitted to see. Members of Congress may go into the room and read them – but they cannot take notes or be accompanied by members of their staff when doing so.
Such is the veil of secrecy behind what has come to be known as “the 28 pages” – or the final chapter of the 9/11 investigation report by the US Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. The 28 pages documenting Saudi support for the 9/11 hijackers were redacted in 2003, when the 838-page report was released, due to national security concerns.
More than a decade later, that piece of the investigation into the worst terrorist attack on US soil is still – very controversially – under wraps.

But as Obama heads to Saudi Arabia next week for a visit that will include a meeting with King Salman, the outgoing US president is facing increasing pressure to declassify those pages.
The pressure comes amid rising tensions in US-Saudi relations, with the Sunni Wahhabi kingdom – under an increasingly bellicose Salman – opposed to Washington’s overtures to its arch rival, Iran, which culminated in a nuclear deal last year. A decreasing US reliance on Saudi oil has further strained a bilateral relationship once considered too important to fray. Suddenly, realpolitik imperatives are not sufficient to silence the howls for accountability from the families of the 9/11 victims and the US public at large.

What lies in the pages?

The clamour to unseal the 28 papers ahead of Obama’s Saudi trip was sparked by an April 10 report on the respected US television magazine, 60 Minutes, which detailed the level of frustration among senior US officials who have been pushing for a declassification over the past 13 years.
These senior former and current officials include Florida Senator Bob Graham, chairman of the Senate Select Committe and co-chairman of the inquiry, and former CIA director Porter Goss, who was also a co-chairman of the inquiry.
Two days after the 60 Minutes broadcast, Sen. Graham told Fox News that the White House had informed him that a decision on whether to declassify the documents would be made in one to two months.
Graham provided no details on why it would take a month or two, although White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest told reporters on Tuesday that the 28 papers were the subject of an intelligence community “classification review.”
Asked about any alleged Saudi ties to 9/11, Earnest cited the 9/11 Commission's findings that there was no evidence the Saudi government or senior Saudi officials funded al Qaeda.
Saudi authorities have long maintained that support for the hijackers did not come from the government.
In the absence of public access to the papers, rumours have long circulated that the 28 pages detail funding for the 9/11 al Qaeda hijackers – not necessarily from the Saudi government, but from wealthy Saudis, including members of the royal family.
In the 60 Minutes report, Sen. Graham was asked if he believed support for the 19 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia.

“Substantially,” Graham replied.
CBS reporter Steve Kroft pushed the US Congressman further: “And when we say, ‘The Saudis,’ you mean the government…rich people in the country? Charities?”
“All of the above,” Sen. Graham replied.

The times have changed

US government officials, however, argue that the redacted pages do not contain any information the public does not already know.
But advocates for the declassification point that if that were true, the Obama administration has no reason to maintain the redaction.
They also note that the redaction probably made sense under the George W. Bush presidency given the close personal relationship between the Bush and Saudi royal families.
Given the sensitive nature of US-Saudi relations in the immediate aftermath of the attacks, as well as the US dependence on oil, a redaction was understandable under the circumstances.
But those circumstances have changed.

A report entitled “The Obama Doctrine” in US monthly The Atlantic details the extent to which the current US president is willing to shake up the old ties of dependence that bound Washington to the Sunni Arab world.
The Saudis – involved in a military campaign in neighbouring Yemen and a soft power conflict against Iran that exasperates Washington – have appeared increasingly truculent over the past year.
Eyebrows were raised last year when King Salman decided not to join a summit of Gulf leaders hosted by Obama at his Camp David country residence.

Although Obama has already made three visits to Saudi Arabia during his presidency, both Washington and Riyadh know the dynamics of the US-Saudi relations are changing.
When Obama meets with Salman on Wednesday, the families of the 9/11 victims – including those supporting a lawsuit seeking redress from the Saudi government for the loss of their loved ones – will be carefully watching for any public comment on the 28 pages.


http://www.france24.com/en/20160415-obama-faces-pressure-saudi-arabia-trip-secret-28-pages

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