The murder of Jo Cox M P

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Re: The murder of Jo Cox M P

Post  chirpyinsect on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 1:16 pm

joyce1938 wrote:I just wonder if at times we on these sites ,can do more harm than good ,different ideas from a

lot of people it seems ,do we speak before we are certain of what we say to be truth,cant help but wonder.joyce1938

With respect Joyce, what you are saying is we should just sit back and accept what we are told by the media. Well if we had done that we would not be here because we would have accepted that MBM was abducted. If you don't want to discuss the subject, I respect your views, but I feel that is worth exploring further due to several anomalies that have come up.
Me is a resident of the village where it happened and as such, is a valuable source of information. If he can categorically state that it was TM who killed Jo Cox, then I will accept that but so far nobody has stated this.
And as for speaking before we know the truth, bless you Joyce, when do we ever know the truth unless we were there?

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Re: The murder of Jo Cox M P

Post  joyce1938 on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 2:53 pm

Hi chippy. I can hear what your saying ,and yes I agree its good to get to know what is what. trouble being at times no 2 people say the same ,because like you said ,if we weren't there we are just repeating what others say. joyce1938
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Re: The murder of Jo Cox M P

Post  Me on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 3:19 pm

chirpyinsect wrote:I agree BB is not TB. Me, I realise the photo with the salute is not TM. I posted it to show what is being said on twitter. Someone trying to implant the idea of far right tendencies. The obvious comparison is the lack of tattoos on the arrest photo.
I read that Mr Rothwell was a gas fitter but that could be sloppy journalism again.
Here is what Wikileaks says about Mr R



Sorry it isn't clear what that list is. It is allegedly, a list of BNP members. I am not confirming that, just saying what is doing the rounds.

But i know that is not relevant. I go back to the fact that Clarke stated what he heard was said BEFORE it became known that Mair was linked to a Far Right group.

chirpyinsect wrote:Of course it could be a mistake but don't the BNP and Britain First hate each other? Also Jo Cox was working on exposing some far right group. Could that be a motive?

Again Clarke did not know at the time of giving the interview what Mair's motives were or indeed that it was Mair.

chirpyinsect wrote:You have still not actually said yet that it was def TM that was spotted by the witnesses. Assumptions have been made, and I can see why but there are still some unanswered questions.

Yes all the witnesses who i know have all confirmed it was Mair having seen the pictures afterwards.



chirpyinsect wrote:For example; Why did another witness say nobody shouted anything?

Perhaps because the witnesses were at different distances away or noticed the commotion at different times during the incident?

chirpyinsect wrote:Why did yet another say he saw 2 policemen jump on the attacker at the scene then Jo was taken in an ambulance.

No idea who that was who said that. It doesn't tally with Mair running past my friend Sean outside the Bishops sandwich shop on his way out of Birstall.

chirpyinsect wrote:It took the police 13 minutes to arrive at the scene so do we think it also took the ambulance that long?

No idea, but why would that be relevant?

chirpyinsect wrote:Anyway, TM was arrested a mile away. I think some people want to sensationalise their involvement and embellish the story. If one person can get it badly wrong, perhaps others did too.

Possible, but then all the stories put together make a reasonably clear picture of what happened.

Equally some people, with nothing mroe than tv reports and press cuttings appear to want to create, sensationalise and embellish some kind of conspiracy when there really isn't one to uncover.

chirpyinsect wrote:Why did none of the police cars who raced to the arrest scene have their blues on? Sorry 1 did but none of the others. Watch the ITV coverage and you won't see the officers come over to the arresting officers to liaise. There could have been a gang of subversives for all they knew.

Again i am not sure what the agenda is in trying to look for something which isn't there. You're overlooking. The man was already under arrest when the police cars arrived en masse to Risedale. One would presume officers on the scene had radioed both the situation and the address.

chirpyinsect wrote:Your comment about knowing Mr Rothwell is noted but several people have made comments that Tommy Mair was a quiet man and a decent person. If he turns out to be a depraved killer, it just goes to show how little we know those around us.

No, but you are trying to find some link between Clarke's alleged membership of the BNP with the Mair's speculated far right motive. I detect that you are speculating Clarke embellished the bit about Mair shouting Britain First because of his BNP involvement.

Put yourself in Clarke's position. Outside your business you have witnessed a woman be shot 3 times and stabbed and ultimately killed. Within minutes there are umpteen tv and radio reporters shoving cameras and microphones in your face.

At that point i am not sure if Clarke or anyone knew it was Mair and certainly did not know of his Far Right connections. I think given the name Mair used in court would suggest to me that Clarke's version of events is the correct one.

Do you really think a simple plumber having witnessed all that, and no doubt being in shock, would have the wherewithal to start putting his BNP hat on and making a political point, or be involved in some far Right conspiracy within minutes of the incident occuring?

Mair was a loner, a weirdo and well known in the Fieldhead council estate where he lived, for want of a better word, as a weirdo, with long standing mental health issues.

Whilst no one would have though him capable of this, he was not the quiet, decent man portrayed in some quarters.
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Re: The murder of Jo Cox M P

Post  chirpyinsect on Tue 21 Jun 2016, 3:37 pm

Thank you for your very considered response ME. I can understand that the peoole closely involved with this would be traumatised by witnessing such a horrific crime. I understand Mr Rothwell only spoke to the BBC but of course others would be clamouring for information.
He heard the first shot so was perhaps first on the scene. Only 2 people have claimed to hear him say "Britain First." Perhaps they did hear it and others didn't.
At no point am I insinuating that anyone tried to falsely make this about far right tendencies in TM. As you say this would not have been known at the time would it?
My questions are about trying to understand the anomalies in witness accounts, not about who is lying and who isn't.
I only really wanted to know if anyone at all actually identified TM as the perp at the scene but you say everyone you spoke to says it was him after the photos of the arrest were released. There is a distinction. The black cap/ white cap has still not been explained either.
I still think there are questions to be asked but I appreciate your frankness. It is always difficult to be a lone voice, especially when feelings are running high but I tend to question everything nowadays. I didn't used to be this cynical, truly.
Two children lost their mother and out of respect for that I will not post anything further on this subject for now.

Regards and condolences to your village.

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Re: The murder of Jo Cox M P

Post  Mimi on Wed 22 Jun 2016, 11:23 pm

After hearing Jo`s sister make a speech the other day, I thought she sounded as if she was used to public speaking. Then today I heard her again today. I also heard Jo`s husband give a fine speech today.  He came across as if he was a practised orator, not someone whose wife has just been murdered. I then found a video of the sister and parents - it`s quite unnerved me - they almost look as if they`re enjoying the limelight.  Maybe it`s me.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/36566711

Methinks this is all a bit over the top

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3653914/Widower-children-MP-Jo-Cox-attend-event-mark-birthday.html


Last edited by Mimi on Wed 22 Jun 2016, 11:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re:Joe Cox fighting for her life- has now died.

Post  costello on Wed 22 Jun 2016, 11:27 pm

I had the same thoughts Mimi.
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Re: The murder of Jo Cox M P

Post  Mimi on Wed 22 Jun 2016, 11:36 pm

I found some more and added a PS - I`ll put it again here.  They can`t seem to stop smiling.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3653914/Widower-children-MP-Jo-Cox-attend-event-mark-birthday.html

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Re: The murder of Jo Cox M P

Post  costello on Wed 22 Jun 2016, 11:51 pm

The comments aren't good either,although nothing to do with the family.
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Re: The murder of Jo Cox M P

Post  chirpyinsect on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 6:41 am

I actually think this will backfire badly on Remain. It is shameless propaganda, using her death to score points. I still have my doubts over the whole episode and have yet to see irrefutable proof that someone saw Tommy Mair pull that trigger. If nobody can stand up and say so ( not by suggestion from tv reports etc) then how can her widower say her death was political and that she died for her beliefs?
Still something questionable here.

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Re: The murder of Jo Cox M P

Post  Mo on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 6:48 am

I don't know how her husband, sister and parents could stand up in front of millions of people to smile and talk about her. If it had been my husband, sister or daughter I would be fit for nothing, curled up in the foetal position cuddling my broken heart! Shame on them!
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Re:Jo Cox fighting for her life - has now died.

Post  costello on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 7:19 am

That sums it up for me Mo. I would imagine most people who had just lost a loved one would be having difficulty talking to friends,relatives etc, let alone appearing on TV so composed (I would anyway).
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Re: The murder of Jo Cox M P

Post  Guinea Pig on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 7:55 am

It reminds me of the relatives of alleged victims of terror attacks like Sandy Hook who behave as if it's the most wonderful thing that's ever happened to them.

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Re: The murder of Jo Cox M P

Post  Mo on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 8:09 am

There's clever PR behind this - all these clebes, setting up of the GO FUND ME etc. I find it very distasteful. I was away last week when it happened and only saw it rolling at the bottom of the TV that Jo Cox MP had been shot. I said to my husband "who's he" I had never heard of her. After the elections wait for it to get nasty in the papers, the comments so far that I have read aren't very nice. But I suppose it will be a nice little earner for the family and me thinks the sister will stand to be elected.
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Re: The murder of Jo Cox M P

Post  AndyB on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 8:23 am

costello wrote:
Mo wrote:I don't know how her husband, sister and parents could stand up in front of millions of people to smile and talk about her.  If it had been my husband, sister or daughter I would be fit for nothing, curled up in the foetal position cuddling my broken heart!  Shame on them!

That sums it up for me Mo. I would imagine most people who had just lost a loved one would be having
difficulty talking to friends,relatives etc, let alone appearing on TV so composed (I would anyway).
The thing is you don't know how you'll be unless/until it happens to you. A few months ago I would have agreed with you but, in the immediate aftermath of my wife's death, I was calm, composed and had no difficulty talking about it without breaking down. I can now totally relate to the way Jo's family have appeared and see nothing sinister in it at all.
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Re: The murder of Jo Cox M P

Post  Mo on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 8:33 am

I am sorry to hear about your wife AndyB, I can only relate to the natural deaths of my parents and sister. Jo Cox's death was not natural and the talking hasn't been kept to close family/friends and neighbours. I am referring to talking in front of millions of people with TV cameras pointing at their faces. Could you do that?
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Re: The murder of Jo Cox M P

Post  AndyB on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 8:42 am

Mo wrote:I am sorry to hear about your wife AndyB, I can only relate to the natural deaths of my parents and sister.  Jo Cox's death was not natural and the talking hasn't been kept to close family/friends and neighbours.  I am referring to talking in front of millions of people with TV cameras pointing at their faces. Could you do that?
I think with appropriate help drafting statements (which I'm sure that Jo's family have had) I could have done, yes, and would have found it therapeutic to do so. But you're right in that there is a difference - my wife's death was "natural" in that it was because of illness rather than being killed. Nevertheless I think my point is still valid - unless you're in the situation you never know what depths of strength you have.

BTW thanks for the condolences but they are unnecessary. I normally wouldn't have said anything as I'm a very private person but it seemed relevant to the topic here.
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Re: The murder of Jo Cox M P

Post  Freedom on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 8:43 am

My sympathies too, AndyB.

I have had three unexpected family bereavements in my life and I don't know how I would have reacted if, for some reason, any of them were considered newsworthy for the world at large.

I think though for most people that a pointless death completely out of the blue like that of Jo Cox would knock them for six.
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Re:Joe Cox fighting for her life- has now died.

Post  costello on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 8:49 am

I'm also sorry to hear of your loss AndyB. I can understand people react to grief in different ways. I just don't think this is a normal way for a 'family' to appear on TV, especially when the death was so sudden.
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Re: The murder of Jo Cox M P

Post  AndyB on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 8:56 am

I understand what you're all saying but I think that the media attention, the whole world being in shock almost, both validates their own feelings of grief and shock and gives them a shared experience and a level of compassion that perhaps helps. Oh, I don't know, I just don't see their actions as automatically suspicious based mainly on my own reaction to a similar situation being completely different from how I thought I would be
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Re: The murder of Jo Cox M P

Post  chirpyinsect on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 8:58 am

I am known within my circle as a greeter. I cry when I read birthday card messages, or watch reunion programmes on tv. I can bubble like a bairn when someone in Corrie dies. Sad movies, forget it. My daughter laughs at me for my sentimental nature as she rarely cries so yes we are all different, but for several members of the same family to all look like lottery winners after such a heinous crime just beggars belief.
Taking away all my conspiracy thoughts for a moment and imagining what it would be like to identify my sister who has just had her face shot, doesn't even bear thinking about.
We are told by Brendan Cox that he and the children talk about what they miss about mummy which is heartwrenching but is it true? Those kids don't look like they have even been told. I know they are young and may have not grasped it all yet but come on. They are laughing and smiling too. Weird!

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Re: The murder of Jo Cox M P

Post  chirpyinsect on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 9:22 am

AndyB wrote:I understand what you're all saying but I think that the media attention, the whole world being in shock almost, both validates their own feelings of grief and shock and gives them a shared experience and a level of compassion that perhaps helps. Oh, I don't know, I just don't see their actions as automatically suspicious based mainly on my own reaction to a similar situation being completely different from how I thought I would be

I do sort of understand what you say AndyB. In spite of what I said below, I didn't cry a lot when my mother died. I had stuff to do, I needed to be strong for my dad and I was relieved for her that mum was no longer imprisoned inside her own mind. However, even thinking of the inevitable day when my dad goes and my eyes fill with tears and I have to stop thinking of it. He is in his 80's and assures me he plans on getting a telegram from her majesty so I've a long time to avoid the thought.
We do all cope differently, but not 1 tear from any of them??

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Re: The murder of Jo Cox M P

Post  unreorganised on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 9:27 am

chirpyinsect wrote:I am known within my circle as a greeter. I cry when I read birthday card messages, or watch reunion programmes on tv. I can bubble like a bairn when someone in Corrie dies. Sad movies, forget it. My daughter laughs at me for my sentimental nature as she rarely cries so yes we are all different, but for several members of the same family to all look like lottery winners after such a heinous crime just beggars belief.
Taking away all my conspiracy thoughts for a moment and imagining what it would be like to identify my sister who has just had her face shot, doesn't even bear thinking about.
We are told by Brendan Cox that he and the children talk about what they miss about mummy which is heartwrenching but is it true? Those kids don't look like they have even been told. I know they are young and may have not grasped it all yet but come on. They are laughing and smiling too. Weird!

I think the Coxs are the new McCanns.
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Re: The murder of Jo Cox M P

Post  Freedom on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 9:49 am

I don't want to go that far!

I do understand though how a seemingly universal show of sympathy and goodwill might help some people in their worst moments to appear cheerful.

That certainly didn't help for the parents of James Bulger though.
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Re: The murder of Jo Cox M P

Post  AndyB on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 11:40 am

chirpyinsect wrote:
AndyB wrote:I understand what you're all saying but I think that the media attention, the whole world being in shock almost, both validates their own feelings of grief and shock and gives them a shared experience and a level of compassion that perhaps helps. Oh, I don't know, I just don't see their actions as automatically suspicious based mainly on my own reaction to a similar situation being completely different from how I thought I would be

I do sort of understand what you say AndyB. In spite of what I said below, I didn't cry a lot when my mother died. I had stuff to do, I needed to be strong for my dad and I was relieved for her that mum was no longer imprisoned inside her own mind. However, even thinking of the inevitable day when my dad goes and my eyes fill with tears and I have to stop thinking of it. He is in his 80's and assures me he plans on getting a telegram from her majesty so I've a long time to avoid the thought.
We do all cope differently, but not 1 tear from any of them??
I was the same when I was thinking about my wife's impending death but then when it happened the over-riding emotion was calm and a determination to get things done, much like your reaction to your Mum's passing.

I'm sure that there have been many private tears among Jo's family
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Re: The murder of Jo Cox M P

Post  candyfloss on Thu 23 Jun 2016, 12:11 pm

So sorry to hear of your loss AndyB, and I understand what you are saying, however, when you expect a family member to die, the loss is still unbearable for some... I still cry buckets for my dad almost a year later and he was 88 and really ill and can't mention him without tears welling up and my chin wobbling.  There are those though who take things so differently and I know of someone who just takes it in their stride and gets on with life... I wish I could be like that!  I suppose we just can't judge people, that is not to say some of us are quite shocked by reactions.

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