The case of Steven Avery

I'm sure this was discussed very briefly on here sometime ages ago, but couldn't find it... Has anyone here watched and it and if so what's your thoughts on it all....

Not quite sure how, but it came up in a topic of conversation the other day with someone and they highly recommended watching it. Apparently a second season is due out soon.

ETA - link for info on it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_a_Murderer

Here's Pat Brown's take on it - personally I don't know if the Avery bloke is guilty or not. Many people think he is innocent including my daughter, she watched all 10 episodes.

http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Making%20a%20Murderer

Thanks Mo.

Did you watch any of it yourself...

Just been reading about this Steven Avery chap.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Avery

Snipped from a previous time he was convicted and went to jail:

Avery was arrested after the victim picked him out of a photo lineup. Although Avery was 40 miles away in Green Bay—an alibi supported by a time-stamped store receipt and 16 eyewitnesses[9]—he was charged, and ultimately convicted, of rape and attempted murder, and sentenced to 32 years imprisonment

... That's mad that is.

Yes I watched the first episode after my daughter was up in arms after watching the first 6 episodes. I watched the first episode and could see why she was up in arms. At the same time Pat Brown started to write about it and explained that the filming was all one sided to make it good TV. Not enough questions were asked on the police/prosecution side. Therefore, what the film makers produced was supposedly true without confirmation of certain points. When I read Pat's work on it, it kinda put me off watching anymore - I sent my daughter Pat's link but she refused to read it saying the film was true and Avery was an innocent man. I haven't discussed it with her again.

if you can be bothered to watch the 10 episodes then do. Don't read Pat's take on it beforehand - there are some really good comments though.

My instincts tell me Avery did commit the murder. It was dreadful that he was imprisoned for a crime he did not commit but that doesn’t mean he is incapable of commiting a serious crime involving a woman. His former fiancée Jodi Stachowski gave an interview this year in which she talked about the violence in their 2 year relationship. According to the report I read her claims are backed up by police reports. She did appear in the film saying she believed in his innocence but now says she was threatened if she didn’t and her family was also in danger. She says she asked the film maker not to include her contribution in the finished product but this was ignored.

Now you could argue that her recanting is the result of police pressure on her especially as there may be a new trial.

The evidence against Avery was overwhelming and its hard to believe that it was all planted. In fact I think that because of the earlier miscarriage of justice involving Avery that the police would have been very wary of doing anything as they are under extra scrutiny.

I read Pat Brown’s blog this morning but I had already decided he is most likely guilty.   His past record anyway was not exemplary – not the most upstanding citizen. Naturally he was angry about what happened to him and was probably very bitter against women. At the time of the murder of Teresa, he was, I understand without a woman (not sure if it was that Jodi had left him or that he had a new woman who was away at that time). I think Teresa came to see the car. She was a very attractive girl and he made a pass at her. She rebuffed him and he became violent, raped her and killed her maybe in anger and not intending to.

I might be utterly wrong, but I find my instincts usually accurate!

Thanks for the informative reply, Antonia.

Been reading lots of bits about it including the below a few moments ago, but really need to watch it. Which I will when I can find some time.

http://www.pajiba.com/netflix_movies_and_tv/is-steven-avery-guilty-evidence-making-a-murderer-didnt-present.php

Still not got round to watching any of it as yet but just seen this in relation to it on Sky News:


http://news.sky.com/story/brendan-dassey-of-making-a-murderer-has-conviction-quashed-10533863


ETA - and this article which is at the top of the Mirror website:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/what-happen-making-murderers-steven-8621394

I never did get round to watching any of this in the end:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4219732/Making-Murderer-prosecutor-says-Steven-Avery-guilty.html

EXCLUSIVE: 'Fake facts, deceptive editing and omission of key evidence.' Making a Murderer prosecutor Ken Kratz breaks his silence about never-before-revealed proof that Steven Avery IS guilty and accuses the producers of duping viewers
Ken Kratz makes his case on how Making a Murderer duped the public in his new book, Avery: The Case Against Steven Avery
Using evidence never before revealed, Kratz shows why he believes Avery is indeed guilty of the violent 2005 murder of Teresa Halbach
Kratz, who prosecuted Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey for the murder in 2007, says he received over 4,000 death threats in the aftermath of the series
He lost his law firm and even had exploding packages sent to his office
He says the show's producers fabricated facts, omitted key evidence and used deceptive 'splicing' editing practices to make Avery seem innocent
'The filmmakers have distorted the case - this isn't what the jury got to see or hear when they decided Mr. Avery was guilty,' Kratz tells DailyMail.com

Hey Andrew I am a huge fan - particularly of Steven Avery's new attorney Kathleen Zellner. I followed the case avidly and believe SA is innocent. If you are interested, I recommend:


http://georgezipperer.blogspot.co.uk

Ticktockmanitowoc is also excellent. The case is in a lull at the moment but I expect movement soon.

Hey up doc.... I've not seen any of it as yet... Read lots about it etc, but not actually watched it though.

Is the chap guilty or non-guilty.... In your opinion?

He is innocent in my opinion. You need to know the context and then I'll explain why. There are many similarities with the MM case.

Steven Avery spent 18 years in prison for a brutal rape he didn't commit. He was released when the Wisconsin Innocence Project took on his case, conducted new DNA tests and made a conclusive match to the real culprit, Gregory Allen. Following Avery's release in 2003, his attorney filed a 36M lawsuit against Manitowoc County which states they ignored prime suspect Gregory Allen. SA was expected to win and this is key because Manitowoc sheriffs faced ruin.

On October 31 2005 freelance photographer Teresa Halbach vanished. She had three appointments that day - one with Steven Avery at Avery Auto Salvage. On Nov 15 SA was charged with her murder. No other suspects were investigated. I'll cut to the chase. This why I believe he is innocent:

Bone fragments were found at Avery Salvage but they had been moved.Why would SA move bones to incriminate himself?

Cadaver dogs did not alert at SA's trailer and instead alerted at a nearby quarry. Despite asserting there had been a brutal murder in SA's trailer there is no forensic evidence she had ever been in it.

A key to TH's car was found in SA's trailer next to a bedside table by Manitowoc County officers. The trailer had been thoroughly examined by Calmut County officers on 5 occasions. Because of a conflict of interest, MC shouldn't have even been at the crime scene.

Phone pings show TH left SA's property.

There's more, it's fascinating and Kathleen Zellner will solve it. Witnesses previously too scared to talk are talking. Brendan Dassey, the nephew of SA who was also charged awaits release. Justice will prevail IMO.

Thanks for the info, 'doc.

It does sound fascinating and really intriguing, I must say.

He'll probably get released and have his own TV show by the time I get round to watching it all.

You are welcome! Brilliant, award winning film making and well worth a watch. The story of Steven's nephew Brendan and the footage of the heartbreaking manipulation of a sixteen year old with an IQ of 80 is one of the most powerful pieces of documentary film making I've ever seen. What it shows is the power of media to do good which has captured the imagination of people across the world. Add to that the power of the internet and the energy of an ever growing army of  brilliant internet sleuths like Foghaze and the drive of Kathleen Zellner and it is unstoppable. I'll post updates on this thread for anyone interested.

For anyone interested in this case, there has at last been significant developments, with Kathleen Zelner submitting her post conviction motion to overturn Steven Avery's conviction. It looks to me like she's blown the prosecution out of the water! I won't go into too much detail but a few points that might be of interest are:

She has produced evidence of staging by showing that the key found in SA's apartment was a spare key, photographed just days after the disappearance in TH's apartment, showing it was moved. DNA analysis and forensic analysis has shown that there was too much of SA's DNA on the key for it to be transmitted by touch. KZ had experts conduct an experiment which proves the most likely source of the DNA on the spare key was from Steven's toothbrush. This was taken but never logged by police and is now missing. She has also established how blood was planted.

No investigation into how at risk of serious crime Teresa Haslbach was, was ever carried out by the prosecution who rushed to prosecute SA and did not investigate TH's back story. It has emerged that her ex-boyfriend had a history of physical abuse and was unable to accept their relationship was over. KZ had uncovered evidence that the boyfriend was allowed access to the crime scene on three separate occasions, giving a false name on one occasion as he entered the crime scene before incriminating evidence was found, he led the search party and also had extensive access to the police investigation and was never asked to provide an alibi. He has been named as a suspect in this motion.

There's so much more but unless you've followed the case it's probably too much information - but for truth seekers this is huge. Justice for Steven Avery is looking much more likely now, thanks to the sheer brilliance of Kathleen Zelner. For anyone interested the georgezippererblogspot is really informative and has a link to the motion.

...Sorry this is a new topic, I thought I'd put it in the Q & A thread.

Never heard of that WUD, will have to do some googling methinks.

Lost my post then, thanks Freedom for moving
WUD and my posts here.

Oops, have I caused a post to disappear?

Sorry if I have.

Thank you! Here is what KZ says about Brain Fingerprinting:

Brain Fingerprinting detects information stored in the brain. It does not claim to detect lies, truth-telling, guilt, innocence or any past or present action or non-action. BF is applied in forensic settings to determine whether or not a suspect knows specific salient information about a crime that is known only by the perpetrator and investigators and would not be known by an innocent person. The purpose of Brain Fingerprinting is to determine scientifically whether the record stored in the suspect's brain matches the record of what actually took place when the crime was committed.

No, sorry, I meant I thought my post had but it was moved here....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_fingerprinting

(although not much to read there about it)

Thanks Andrew, that's a bit damning! In fairness to KZ, she is nothing if not thorough and her motion is a masterclass in leaving no Stone unturned. She has a multitude of damning evidence including new forensics, new witness statements and a new timeline with evidence of police withholding vital information and planting evidence - this is a small caveat right at the end - but interesting because I've never heard of it and it's a new technique.