Madeleine McCann Books

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Re: Madeleine McCann Books

Post  Freedom on Mon 08 Sep 2014, 9:57 am

Not of course that they would have been told the truth if they had interviewed the McCanns but yes it is strange that they didn't.
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Re: Madeleine McCann Books

Post  Guest on Mon 08 Sep 2014, 9:59 am

"Mr Summers said: "Had there been a warning note in the apartment, do we think the McCanns would have left the patio door unlocked on the night they went to the other side of the pool to have dinner away from their children?
"One would be tempted to think they would make sure everything was firmly locked up."

So it would have been ok for them to leave the kids in a locked apartment?

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Re: Madeleine McCann Books

Post  Antonia on Mon 08 Sep 2014, 10:07 am

flamingboy wrote:"Mr Summers said: "Had there been a warning note in the apartment, do we think the McCanns would have left the patio door unlocked on the night they went to the other side of the pool to have dinner away from their children?
"One would be tempted to think they would make sure everything was firmly locked up."

So it would have been ok for them to leave the kids in a locked apartment?

It would not be acceptable but less unacceptable than leaving in an unlocked groundfloor apartment adjacent to a swimming pool. Locking the door would have made it harder for the spotty/smelly/take your pick burglar/abductor to break in and he could have been disturbed by the McCanns/their friends making their 'regular' checks so Madeleine would not have been 'taken.'
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Re: Madeleine McCann Books

Post  Mimi on Mon 08 Sep 2014, 10:12 am

Isn`t it rather risky of two supposedly award-winning authors to write this account in defence of the McCanns? Suppose it ever gets to court and the parents` guilt is proven, how will S&S look then? Right dickheads that`s what. For them to risk their reputations like this, they must have been assured by the commissioner that the truth will NEVER come out.
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Re: Madeleine McCann Books

Post  Lorraine on Mon 08 Sep 2014, 11:25 am

Anyone wanting to can leave a comment here, on their Facebook page. They are not getting very much support apart from a couple of stalwarts,

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Anthony-Summers-Robbyn-Swan/108905915872218
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Re: Madeleine McCann Books

Post  Guest on Mon 08 Sep 2014, 6:38 pm

Lorraine wrote:Anyone wanting to can leave a comment here, on their Facebook page. They are not getting very much support apart from a couple of stalwarts,

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Anthony-Summers-Robbyn-Swan/108905915872218

Oh dear..our Pammy is straight on the case as usual. I wonder if once Summers and Swan start to read the vitriolic bile that spits from her mouth, whether they'll wish they hadn't bothered writing the book at all

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Re: Madeleine McCann Books

Post  Guest on Tue 09 Sep 2014, 9:33 am

I would have read this book until I heard the authors attribute great and sinister significance to the C Tranmer sighting of a man opening and closing a ground floor gate. The female author made an assumption on behalf of Ms Tranmer, who in her statement did not infer this man was doing this to check if the gate was noisy.


CT : We were all seated on the terrace, hummm'talking, and I was inclined to look below and this is when I saw someone leave the apartment of the first floor, closing the gate very gently as they were leaving, opening and closing the gate with much caution and in silence. It appeared to me very strange. They looked to one side and the other, shut the gate and walked very quickly downwards.

Having a child with Asperger's syndrome and knowing an adult with OCD, I would say that this repetitive action could be put down as easily to the innocent repetitive checking which is a part of both syndromes and which wastes a lot of time. Maybe the man was in a hurry to leave because his OCD had meant he had spent a good many minutes repetitively checking the gate was properly shut and he had somewhere to be. His checking either side of him could also be part of something like OCD. The authors have put a sinister spin on this man's actions. Imo if he wanted to check the noise of any door or gate relating to 5a, having watched the comings and goings that week, he would have handled that gate, getting no info about 5a by checking a different gate for making a noise and drawing attention to an intruder.


That the authors have put words into the mouth of CT, who said no more than that she found the man's behaviour strange, and have assumed a motive for his actions, leads me to believe that they have not been factual or thorough in their research, so I will be giving this book a miss in the belief that there will be more of the same.

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Re: Madeleine McCann Books

Post  dantezebu on Tue 09 Sep 2014, 10:48 am

"CT : We were all seated on the terrace, hummm'talking, and I was inclined to look below and this is when I saw someone leave the apartment of the first floor, closing the gate very gently as they were leaving, opening and closing the gate with much caution and in silence. It appeared to me very strange. They looked to one side and the other, shut the gate and walked very quickly downwards."

I don't read this as the man did anything other than open and close the gate quietly one time.
She doesn't say he did this repeatedly. Carol Tranmer repeats herself certainly but doesn't say the man was opening and closing the gate more than once.
Maybe he was being quiet because he had children asleep inside.
I think it's a case of S&S wilfully twisting words to suit their own ends.
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Re: Madeleine McCann Books

Post  Guest on Tue 09 Sep 2014, 1:22 pm

Thanks for that. I overlooked the point that it could have been only one set of action with the gate, opening to exit then closing it quietly afterwards. That makes what S and S did worse, they did say in their interview iirc [ will watch again] that the man did this a few times to check if it was ...creaking was the word they used. They have certainly taken the CT statement and altered it for a certain agenda, it would seem.
My point was that even if as S and S claim, the man did indeed open and close the gate more than once [implication, he was suspicious and maybe checking if noise would alert to an intruder], the motive [ a sinister one, which S and S assume- based on no evidence] - could have been benign.

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Re: Madeleine McCann Books

Post  Guest on Tue 09 Sep 2014, 1:34 pm

From the Telegraph newspaper.... I anticipate quite a few comments !


By Anthony Summers and Robbyn Swan
7:00AM BST 09 Sep 2014

There is another possible explanation of Madeleine’s disappearance that would – almost certainly – have involved no malfeasance. It is that Madeleine – just short of her fourth birthday – conceivably woke, got out of bed and wandered out into the night of her own volition. This was the possibility first considered by the Portuguese patrol car officers who responded to the emergency, then suggested to Kate the following day by regional police chief Guilhermino Encarnação.
The British priest, Paul Seddon, whom Kate called in the early hours, recalled trying to calm her by saying that “Madeleine could have had a bout of sleepwalking and that she would be all right. I remember that Kate was worried by the fact that Madeleine was wearing short-sleeved pyjamas and could catch a cold.”
Father Seddon, who knew the McCanns well – he had baptised Madeleine and often played golf with Gerry – continued to hope the child “could have left alone, as she was a very adventurous girl”. Even the next day, a spokesman for the tour operator that ran the Ocean Club [where the McCanns were staying] expressed the hope “that she is sleeping under a bush somewhere”.
Though both Kate and Gerry rejected the possibility that their daughter had wandered off, the notion was not preposterous. Children can and do sometimes wander. Two years later, in New Zealand, a two-year-old did indeed stray in broad daylight and apparently crawled or fell into a nearby manhole with a faulty cover. She was found dead, after a week’s intensive searching.
There were such hazards in Praia da Luz in 2007. A police report in the files records the fact that “open trenches” in two streets, Rua Direita and Rua Helena do Nascimiento Batista, had been left open on the evening of May 3. For an adult, at any rate, both streets are only a few minutes’ walk from Apartment 5A. When the trenches were checked, though, on the morning of May 4 and as word spread that a child was missing, nothing was found.

An adventure resulting in a fatal accident, while not impossible, is, however, less than probable. Had Madeleine wandered out of the apartment, she would almost certainly have made her exit by the patio door – left unlocked to make checking on the children easier – that led to the terrace and the steps down to the street. Her most likely route then would have been to walk the few yards downhill to the entrance that led to the swimming pool and the Tapas restaurant. It was a route with which she was familiar, and her parents were eating in the Tapas.
It is Kate McCann, though, who has articulated the best reason to dismiss the notion that Madeleine left the apartment of her own volition, and by the patio door. One would have to accept, Kate has reasoned, that on leaving Madeleine would have: opened the curtains on the patio door and closed them behind her; opened the patio door and closed it behind her; and opened and closed both a child safety gate and the gate to the street. Would such a little girl really have done that ?


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Re: Madeleine McCann Books

Post  Guest on Tue 09 Sep 2014, 1:41 pm

Russian Doll wrote:  From the Telegraph newspaper.... I anticipate quite a few comments !

By Anthony Summers and Robbyn Swan
7:00AM BST 09 Sep 2014
<snip>

My response to this is simple.  If Madeleine had genuinely wandered off there would have been no need for Kate to tell anybody about the window being wide open or the jemmied shutters.  There would have been no need to repeatedly describe how the window 'whooshed' and the bedroom door slammed shut. There would have been no reason for Kate not to answer 48 questions.  There would have been no reason to consider for hours her lawyer's advice to plead guilty.  There would have been no cadaverine or human blood in the hire car nor in apartment 5A nor on Kate's clothes.

If Madeleine had wandered off and had a fatal accident, it is highly improbable that her body would have gone missing for 7+ years.

I'm sure we could add hundreds more.

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Re: Madeleine McCann Books

Post  Freedom on Tue 09 Sep 2014, 2:12 pm

Bearing in mind how close the swimming pool was to the apartment, most people would surely be horror struck at the thought that a missing child could have wandered off and fallen in there.
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Re: Madeleine McCann Books

Post  Bagheera on Tue 09 Sep 2014, 2:17 pm

"An adventure resulting in a fatal accident, while not impossible, is, however, less than probable. Had Madeleine wandered out of the apartment, she would almost certainly have made her exit by the patio door – left unlocked to make checking on the children easier – that led to the terrace and the steps down to the street. Her most likely route then would have been to walk the few yards downhill to the entrance that led to the swimming pool and the Tapas restaurant. It was a route with which she was familiar, and her parents were eating in the Tapas."

Those would be the patio doors where the shutters were down? As per both of the written timelines and Rachel Mampilly's statement to the PJ?

Strong for a three year old?
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Re: Madeleine McCann Books

Post  Admin on Tue 09 Sep 2014, 2:21 pm

Could Madeleine be safe and well cared for?









In this edited extract from 'Looking for Madeleine', a new book on the McCann case, the authors analyse the theory that the three-year-old may still be alive



By Anthony Summers and Robbyn Swan
7:00AM BST 09 Sep 2014



Former Detective Inspector Ian Horrocks, who was with the Metropolitan Police for 30 years, studied Madeleine’s case over many months, visited Praia da Luz and produced a lengthy summary of his views. He theorised, drawing on his experience of kidnapping cases, that the abduction may have been done by “someone who wanted her as part of his or their family”.
Thefts of babies do occur. Typically, an infant is taken within days of his or her birth, often from hospitals. Such an abduction, studies by the US National Center for Missing and Exploited Children (NCMEC) suggest, may be committed by a previously pregnant woman who has miscarried, or one who finds herself infertile, or one who has a male partner but is not living with him and wants to get him back.
In the UK, there was for a time a charity that – among its other causes – supported women who had kidnapped children. The Portia Trust’s founder, Ken Norman, claimed most such women are not mentally ill but simply “cannot accept that their child is dead or have an unbearable desire for a baby of their own. They may have spent months, even years, looking for a child that resembles the one they have lost and is of the same age.”
The very purpose of such child thefts is to nurture the child, to raise it to adulthood as if it were the woman’s own. “The babies are very rarely harmed,” a NCMEC spokesman has said. “The recovery rate is very good.”
In one case in the United States, a woman aged 23 contacted NCMEC on realising she had neither birth certificate nor Social Security card. Her case was investigated and her true biological parents identified. The parents had never given up hope that they would find their missing daughter – just as the McCanns have said they will never give up hope of finding Madeleine.



Looking For Madeleine by Anthony Summers and Robbyn Swan (Headline, £18.99) is available to order from Telegraph Books at £16.99 + £1.95 p&p. Call 0844 871 1514 or visit books.telegraph.co.uk
© Anthony Summers and Robbyn Swan 2014

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/11082517/Could-Madeleine-be-safe-and-well-cared-for.html


Last edited by Admin on Tue 09 Sep 2014, 2:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Madeleine McCann Books

Post  Andrew on Tue 09 Sep 2014, 2:25 pm

wlbts wrote:
Russian Doll wrote:  From the Telegraph newspaper.... I anticipate quite a few comments !

By Anthony Summers and Robbyn Swan
7:00AM BST 09 Sep 2014
<snip>

My response to this is simple.  If Madeleine had genuinely wandered off there would have been no need for Kate to tell anybody about the window being wide open or the jemmied shutters.  There would have been no need to repeatedly describe how the window 'whooshed' and the bedroom door slammed shut. There would have been no reason for Kate not to answer 48 questions.  There would have been no reason to consider for hours her lawyer's advice to plead guilty.  There would have been no cadaverine or human blood in the hire car nor in apartment 5A nor on Kate's clothes.

If Madeleine had wandered off and had a fatal accident, it is highly improbable that her body would have gone missing for 7+ years.

I'm sure we could add hundreds more.


Yep, totally agree with what you said. Just curious about the bit I have highlighted. Any further info / links about that. Wasn't aware that she was considering pleading guilty.

In hindsight I bet she wished she did now. IMO.
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Re: Madeleine McCann Books

Post  Guest on Tue 09 Sep 2014, 2:40 pm

Freedom wrote:Bearing in mind how close the swimming pool was to the apartment, most people would surely be horror struck at the thought that a missing child could have wandered off and fallen in there.

Precisely and Kate said herself that Madeleine loved the water, diving straight into the freezing cold sea on their holiday to Donegal as well being very keen to get to the pool on the first day of the holiday in PdL, so on that basis alone, leaving the kids in an unlocked apartment in such proximity to the pool was a very risky strategy indeed.

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Re: Madeleine McCann Books

Post  Guest on Tue 09 Sep 2014, 2:46 pm

Admin wrote:Could Madeleine be safe and well cared for?

Former Detective Inspector Ian Horrocks, who was with the Metropolitan Police for 30 years, studied Madeleine’s case over many months, visited Praia da Luz and produced a lengthy summary of his views. He theorised, drawing on his experience of kidnapping cases, that the abduction may have been done by “someone who wanted her as part of his or their family”.
Thefts of babies do occur. Typically, an infant is taken within days of his or her birth, often from hospitals. Such an abduction, studies by the US National Center for Missing and Exploited Children (NCMEC) suggest, may be committed by a previously pregnant woman who has miscarried, or one who finds herself infertile, or one who has a male partner but is not living with him and wants to get him back.
In the UK, there was for a time a charity that – among its other causes – supported women who had kidnapped children. The Portia Trust’s founder, Ken Norman, claimed most such women are not mentally ill but simply “cannot accept that their child is dead or have an unbearable desire for a baby of their own. They may have spent months, even years, looking for a child that resembles the one they have lost and is of the same age.”
The very purpose of such child thefts is to nurture the child, to raise it to adulthood as if it were the woman’s own. “The babies are very rarely harmed,” a NCMEC spokesman has said. “The recovery rate is very good.”
In one case in the United States, a woman aged 23 contacted NCMEC on realising she had neither birth certificate nor Social Security card. Her case was investigated and her true biological parents identified. The parents had never given up hope that they would find their missing daughter – just as the McCanns have said they will never give up hope of finding Madeleine.

So if it is normally infants and young babies, why take Madeleine and not one of the twins? Do people like Horrocks not think about what they're saying, and then for Summers and Swan to just quote him, without making a critical assessment about what other children were in the room is just ridiculous, I most certainly not be buying the book..sounds like a load of poorly researched, recycled drivel...I wonder what their motivation (apart from money, which I doubt they will make much) to write this book is?

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Blacksmith's reaction to the book so far

Post  Scrants on Tue 09 Sep 2014, 2:49 pm

http://blacksmithbureau.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/unveiled.html?m=1

Follow the link for a good laugh.

Just about sums it up.
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Re: Madeleine McCann Books

Post  Guest on Tue 09 Sep 2014, 2:50 pm

Andrew wrote:
wlbts wrote:There would have been no reason to consider for hours her lawyer's advice to plead guilty.


Yep, totally agree with what you said. Just curious about the bit I have highlighted. Any further info / links about that. Wasn't aware that she was considering pleading guilty.

In hindsight I bet she wished she did now. IMO.

Blacksmith has been discussing the bit in red a lot recently, take a look.  In essence, Blacksmith makes the case that nowhere in Kate's book did she state that she refused her lawyer's advice to plead guilty.  BS does a better job of making the case than I can Smile

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Re: Madeleine McCann Books

Post  Popcorn on Tue 09 Sep 2014, 6:48 pm

Admin wrote:Could Madeleine be safe and well cared for?









In this edited extract from 'Looking for Madeleine', a new book on the McCann case, the authors analyse the theory that the three-year-old may still be alive







By Anthony Summers and Robbyn Swan
7:00AM BST 09 Sep 2014



Former Detective Inspector Ian Horrocks, who was with the Metropolitan Police for 30 years, studied Madeleine’s case over many months, visited Praia da Luz and produced a lengthy summary of his views. He theorised, drawing on his experience of kidnapping cases, that the abduction may have been done by “someone who wanted her as part of his or their family”.
Thefts of babies do occur. Typically, an infant is taken within days of his or her birth, often from hospitals. Such an abduction, studies by the US National Center for Missing and Exploited Children (NCMEC) suggest, may be committed by a previously pregnant woman who has miscarried, or one who finds herself infertile, or one who has a male partner but is not living with him and wants to get him back.
In the UK, there was for a time a charity that – among its other causes – supported women who had kidnapped children. The Portia Trust’s founder, Ken Norman, claimed most such women are not mentally ill but simply “cannot accept that their child is dead or have an unbearable desire for a baby of their own. They may have spent months, even years, looking for a child that resembles the one they have lost and is of the same age.”
The very purpose of such child thefts is to nurture the child, to raise it to adulthood as if it were the woman’s own. “The babies are very rarely harmed,” a NCMEC spokesman has said. “The recovery rate is very good.”
In one case in the United States, a woman aged 23 contacted NCMEC on realising she had neither birth certificate nor Social Security card. Her case was investigated and her true biological parents identified. The parents had never given up hope that they would find their missing daughter – just as the McCanns have said they will never give up hope of finding Madeleine.



Looking For Madeleine by Anthony Summers and Robbyn Swan (Headline, £18.99) is available to order from Telegraph Books at £16.99 + £1.95 p&p. Call 0844 871 1514 or visit books.telegraph.co.uk
© Anthony Summers and Robbyn Swan 2014

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/11082517/Could-Madeleine-be-safe-and-well-cared-for.html

I think this piece of writing could be a contender for a special award… The 2011 “Questions to Which the Answer is No” Awards


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Re: Madeleine McCann Books

Post  Antonia on Tue 09 Sep 2014, 7:43 pm

Yes I agree - an award for very black comedy.

It is laughable that these so called investigative journalists can seriously consider that a woman/couple desperate for a child would snatch one a few days short of her 4th birthday when there were 2 year old twins in the apartment.  How would you hide a 4 year old who would tell your family and friends that she wanted her real mummy and daddy and that her name was madeleine and she had a little brother and sister? It would be hard enough to introduce a 2 year old into your world but a 4 year old!
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Re: Madeleine McCann Books

Post  cherry on Tue 09 Sep 2014, 8:13 pm

Former Detective Inspector Ian Horrocks, who was with the Metropolitan Police for 30 years, studied Madeleine’s case over many months, visited Praia da Luz and produced a lengthy summary of his views. He theorised, drawing on his experience of kidnapping cases, that the abduction may have been done by “someone who wanted her as part of his or their family”.

Is that the best Horrocks can come up with after 30 years service! Rolling Eyes

He says the abduction may have been done by 'someone who wanted her as part of his or their family'

He states 'abduction' as if it is a fact, there is no fact of any abduction and no evidence of any abduction.

If she had been abducted as has been said it would not account for the lies discrepancies distortions we have seen when comparing statements, interviews, book.
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Re: Madeleine McCann Books

Post  cherry on Tue 09 Sep 2014, 8:21 pm

Former senior police officer (yes, another one with no direct involvement in the Maddie affair) Ian Horrocks is 'an accredited senior investigating officer for homicide, as well as having experience in high value and multinational fraud and other major crime. For the last five years of his service he led one of Scotland Yard's Kidnap and Specialist Investigations teams'.

In 'What happened to Madeleine McCann?' (14-Oct-2013), he draws upon his expertise and personal experience, putting forward a raft of conclusions and opinions, of which the following is a typical example:

"The thought that Kate and Gerry McCann had anything to do with the death of their daughter, whether being directly responsible, or covering it up is frankly preposterous. There is not one shred of credible evidence, either direct or otherwise to indicate that this is even a remote possibility."

(McCann Files)



I believe Horrocks was involved in the original investigation of Dando case
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Re: Madeleine McCann Books

Post  Châtelaine on Tue 09 Sep 2014, 8:31 pm

He was, indeed.
And completely mistaken.
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Re: Madeleine McCann Books

Post  Poppy on Tue 09 Sep 2014, 9:15 pm




Former Detective Inspector Ian Horrocks, who was with the Metropolitan Police for 30 years, studied Madeleine’s case over many months, visited Praia da Luz and produced a lengthy summary of his views. He theorised, drawing on his experience of kidnapping cases, that the abduction may have been done by “someone who wanted her as part of his or their family”. He then says at some point or other


The thought that Kate and Gerry McCann had anything to do with the death of their daughter, whether being directly responsible, or covering it up is frankly preposterous.

So tell me Ian !!!! In your opinion is Madeleine alive and living like a Princess or is she Dead. Question







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Re: Madeleine McCann Books

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