McCanns dump Clarence Mitchell

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Re: McCanns dump Clarence Mitchell

Post  Hope on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 1:42 am

I do not believe that the McCann's have paid for CM's services for many years now, if they ever did. BK was supposedly covering those costs, there was mention of around £70,000 retainer fee IIRC.
I believe CM played a different role in the whole affair, more like a minder if you will.
To my mind it's a lot more probable he worked for those pulling the strings.

It's really stretching it that an ambitious man like CM working in the MMU for the government would waltz off to the post as spokesperson for a family whose missing child could be found at any time. Utter madness.

CM played his role, received the Tory nomination for a Brighton seat at the last election where he was never going to win but his paymasters thus kept their side of the bargain.

He leaves the stage but not at the McCann's say so. IMO.

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Re: McCanns dump Clarence Mitchell

Post  Bampots on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 7:31 am

Totally agree Hope. Whatever he is an ordinary Joe he ain't. I've said befofe he works for the government and as such the Macs need not worry who pays his wages,or indeed his employment status. Its just for positioning for the next move as discussed at the races!

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Re: McCanns dump Clarence Mitchell

Post  AndyB on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 8:38 am

TheTruthWillOut wrote:
AndyB wrote:I think you're missing my point. Let's say for the moment that Grange is genuine; why do you assume that they're keeping quiet until the McCann's have no money and no support? Until there are arrests or charges they should be saying nothing. The amount of money or friends that the McCanns have is, to my mind irrelevant to the progress of the case, yet you seem to think its a factor - why?

I really do think it is a factor if the vast amount of evidence is circumstantial. The money they have had access to all these years gave them access to top lawyers and the CPS or Portuguese equivalent probably wouldn't risk proceeding if that's the case. If there were smoking gun evidence this case would have been done and dusted years ago.

Look at it from the opposite view. The Suzanne Pilley case in Scotland for example was an entirely circumstantial case with no body but because the murderer was a nobody without money or top lawyers it was a easy decision to prosecute and secure a conviction. It shouldn't be this way but that is how it looks to me.

I have to ask Andy.....You seem to believe that SY's involvement is not genuine or a sham? How realistic is it really that so many top police officers would all partake in such a sham? It would be a criminal act itself would it not? I also couldn't believe so many would go along with it because "orders". Someone would surely have blown the whistle by now.
I agree that there is no smoking gun evidence, at least none that we are aware of, but then the complete lack of evidence of abduction is one of the things that's suspicious about Madeleine's disappearance. However, I think you misunderstand how the world works if you think the police are the slightest bit bothered about the wealth of their suspects. Even if we disregard the slightly disturbing view that senior police officers sit there thinking "Hmm, we've got some evidence against this person but we'd best not prosecute 'cos they can afford a good defence team", your point is only valid if you disregard legal aid and the CPS.  

I'm not familiar with the Suzanne Pilley case but i imagine the process was;
The police decide they have enough evidence (albeit curcumstantial) to prosecute
The police submit a file to the crown prosecution service (or procurator fiscal as this was in Scotland)
The CPS/PF agree that there is sufficient evidence and a likelihood of conviction based on that evidence
Charges are brought

At no point does the wealth or popularity of the suspect come into it.

As to Grange I am open minded but, on all the evidence, I can see very little to convince me that its genuine and I've heard nothing from those who believe that it is genuine to make me question my suspicions. As for why "so many top police officers would all partake in such a sham", I'm afraid that again demonstrates a startling lack of awareness of how the world actually is. Just how many people do you think it takes to subvert/corrupt/deflect an investigation? It only takes one or two and, in this case, perhaps the connivance of a senior politician or two like the home secretary. The vast majority of people working on the case will be working one line of enquiry and will be doing that genuinely and completely unsuspicious about the operation because they lack the big picture and hierarchical structures prevent and dissuade them from taking an interest in it even if they wanted to.

And as to the idea that the police never commit criminal acts, I suggest you read the following articles. The point being that, even if they were aware they were committing a criminal act (and there is no evidence whatsoever that they're doing anything wrong at all, even if they're not genuinely investigating Madeleine's disappearance because we don't know for certain what Grange's real remit is) it wouldn't bother them.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33635962
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/half-of-met-police-officers-convicted-of-criminal-offences-in-past-decade-still-work-for-the-force-a3180351.html
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Re: McCanns dump Clarence Mitchell

Post  chirpyinsect on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 12:53 pm

Sorry this is OT but something weird is happening on the Jonbenet thread and Candy's latest thread. The JB one goes to a virus warning when I open that thread and Candy's one won't stay on the post, it just jumps to adverts. I have tested for a virus and all is ok. It's just those 2 threads. Everything else is normal. Is it just me?

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Re: McCanns dump Clarence Mitchell

Post  candyfloss on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 1:20 pm

chirpyinsect wrote:Sorry this is OT but something weird is happening on the Jonbenet thread and Candy's latest thread. The JB one goes to a virus warning when I open that thread and Candy's one won't stay on the post, it just jumps to adverts. I have tested for a virus and all is ok. It's just those 2 threads. Everything else is normal. Is it just me?

Tried all mine and everything ok, phone and mobile.  You have just posted twice chirpy so it must be your end.

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Re: McCanns dump Clarence Mitchell

Post  TheTruthWillOut on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 1:21 pm

I agree that there is no smoking gun evidence, at least none that we are aware of, but then the complete lack of evidence of abduction is one of the things that's suspicious about Madeleine's disappearance. However, I think you misunderstand how the world works if you think the police are the slightest bit bothered about the wealth of their suspects. Even if we disregard the slightly disturbing view that senior police officers sit there thinking "Hmm, we've got some evidence against this person but we'd best not prosecute 'cos they can afford a good defence team", your point is only valid if you disregard legal aid and the CPS.

I don't have that view? Not sure where in my post you got that! The police are just a CPS tool to gather evidence and build a case AFAIK. The CPS decide if a case goes to court or not(and the police often disagree!) The CPS explain things with lots of big words on how they operate and make decisions but even they are human and it would be naive to think they aren't affected by the 'human factor' like everyone else.  

 
I'm not familiar with the Suzanne Pilley case but i imagine the process was;
The police decide they have enough evidence (albeit curcumstantial) to prosecute
The police submit a file to the crown prosecution service (or procurator fiscal as this was in Scotland)
The CPS/PF agree that there is sufficient evidence and a likelihood of conviction based on that evidence
Charges are brought

At no point does the wealth or popularity of the suspect come into it.

Please have a look at the Wikipedia article to get an idea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Suzanne_Pilley

The most eyebrow raising part for me is this:

On 6 March 2012, the court heard from a forensic scientist, Kirsty McTurk, who told the trial that she had conducted a search for DNA in Ms Pilley's workplace and in the boot of Mr Gilroy's car. She confirmed that she had been unable to find any trace of Ms Pilley's DNA anywhere in the building or in the car. She told the court that as she opened the boot to Mr Gilroy's car, she noticed a fresh smell coming from inside. She told the advocate depute that it could either have been an 'air freshener' or a 'cleansing agent'.

Not sure how or why this was part of the prosecution but what do I know! Just so there isn't any doubt, I believe Gilroy to be guilty as charged FWIW.

AndyB wrote:As to Grange I am open minded but, on all the evidence, I can see very little to convince me that its genuine and I've heard nothing from those who believe that it is genuine to make me question my suspicions. As for why "so many top police officers would all partake in such a sham", I'm afraid that again demonstrates a startling lack of awareness of how the world actually is. Just how many people do you think it takes to subvert/corrupt/deflect an investigation? It only takes one or two and, in this case, perhaps the connivance of a senior politician or two like the home secretary. The vast majority of people working on the case will be working one line of enquiry and will be doing that genuinely and completely unsuspicious about the operation because they lack the big picture and hierarchical structures prevent and dissuade them from taking an interest in it even if they wanted to.

And as to the idea that the police never commit criminal acts, I suggest you read the following articles. The point being that, even if they were aware they were committing a criminal act (and there is no evidence whatsoever that they're doing anything wrong at all, even if they're not genuinely investigating Madeleine's disappearance because we don't know for certain what Grange's real remit is) it wouldn't bother them.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33635962
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/half-of-met-police-officers-convicted-of-criminal-offences-in-past-decade-still-work-for-the-force-a3180351.html

This whole paragraph has me scratching my head wondering where you got the "lack of awareness" and "idea" of mine from?

All I will comment directly on is the part about individual officers. I agree each is delegated a single/specific line of enquiry but I find the suggestion about being out of the of the big picture ridiculous.
Do you not believe the team meet on a regular basis and tell each other what they have done/found and discuss what they are going to/need to do next? I watched the Sadie Hartley case on ITV yesterday and this is exactly how it appeared to operate. From beat bobby up to senior officers in the same room each morning. The morning briefing.
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Re: McCanns dump Clarence Mitchell

Post  Freedom on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 1:23 pm



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Re: McCanns dump Clarence Mitchell

Post  candyfloss on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 1:34 pm

Freedom wrote:Locking for a moment to transfer the "what is libellous" posts out.

Thanks.  Back to poor old dumped Clarence, will he survive Laughing

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Re: McCanns dump Clarence Mitchell

Post  Andrew on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 1:49 pm

So if I say anything detrimental about Clarence then do I have to put it on the new thread?

I love Clarence. He's a smashing guy. A real salt of the earth chap that's always had Madeleine's best interests at heart and it's so sad that he and the wonderful parents of Madeleine have had to part ways.

Will Clarence and his lawyers be ok with the above then....
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Re: McCanns dump Clarence Mitchell

Post  Heisenburg on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 1:51 pm

TheTruthWillOut wrote:
All I will comment directly on is the part about individual officers. I agree each is delegated a single/specific line of enquiry but I find the suggestion about being out of the of the big picture ridiculous.

The only thing to maybe cast doubt on such a thing is Hillsborough.
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Re: McCanns dump Clarence Mitchell

Post  candyfloss on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 1:55 pm

Andrew wrote:So if I say anything detrimental about Clarence then do I have to put it on the new thread?

I love Clarence. He's a smashing guy. A real salt of the earth chap that's always had Madeleine's best interests at heart and it's so sad that he and the wonderful parents of Madeleine have had to part ways.

Will Clarence and his lawyers be ok with the above then....

Just the posts talking about libellous postshave been moved Andrew by Freedom who has taken some out as they were off the subject, discussing libel rather than the topic.  Even the PJ chap said that he lied with as many teeth or something Smile - anyone got the quote..

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Re: McCanns dump Clarence Mitchell

Post  Heisenburg on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 2:05 pm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-559675/Portuguese-police-accuse-McCanns-spokesman-Clarence-Mitchell-lying-teeth.html


Portuguese police accuse McCanns' spokesman Clarence Mitchell of 'lying through his teeth'




But Mr Anjos told the respected Portuguese newspaper Jornal de Noticias: 'He is a liar and a Machiavellian.

"Mr Mitchell wants to discredit the Policia Judiciaria and invent excuses so the McCanns do not come to Portugal to participate in the reconstruction of the night she disappeared.

"He lies with as many teeth as he has in his mouth. Finally we know what side truth is on."




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Re: McCanns dump Clarence Mitchell

Post  Andrew on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 2:06 pm

... and I can't remember Clarence taking him to court for saying that.
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Re: McCanns dump Clarence Mitchell

Post  candyfloss on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 2:18 pm

Heisenburg wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-559675/Portuguese-police-accuse-McCanns-spokesman-Clarence-Mitchell-lying-teeth.html


Portuguese police accuse McCanns' spokesman Clarence Mitchell of 'lying through his teeth'




But Mr Anjos told the respected Portuguese newspaper Jornal de Noticias: 'He is a liar and a Machiavellian.

"Mr Mitchell wants to discredit the Policia Judiciaria and invent excuses so the McCanns do not come to Portugal to participate in the reconstruction of the night she disappeared.

"He lies with as many teeth as he has in his mouth. Finally we know what side truth is on."



Great, thank you Heisenberg. 

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Re: McCanns dump Clarence Mitchell

Post  Andrew on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 3:40 pm

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Re: McCanns dump Clarence Mitchell

Post  Poe on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 4:56 pm

This is just pure speculation on my part but what if the legal contract between Clarrie & the McCanns states that Clarrie's job is to represent the McCanns in the media without him having any knowledge of the actual events surrounding Madeleine's disappearance other than what the McCanns tell him.

Like Carter Ruck if he works on the presumption that they are innocent and ignores all evidence to the contrary, unless there is absolute proof he knows what happened, he can claim he was duped.

Now, if he has been questioned by OG and shown evidence that indicates the McCanns' guilt, he can't possibly continue to represent them without putting himself in danger of arrest.
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Re: McCanns dump Clarence Mitchell

Post  Andrew on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 5:51 pm

Poe wrote:This is just pure speculation on my part but what if the legal contract between Clarrie & the McCanns states that Clarrie's job is to represent the McCanns in the media without him having any knowledge of the actual events surrounding Madeleine's disappearance other than what the McCanns tell him.

Like Carter Ruck if he works on the presumption that they are innocent and ignores all evidence to the contrary, unless there is absolute proof he knows what happened, he can claim he was duped.

Now, if he has been questioned by OG and shown evidence that indicates the McCanns' guilt, he can't possibly continue to represent them without putting himself in danger of arrest.


A valid thought, Poe.

I sincerely hope that's the case and that's the real reason why they've parted.

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Re: McCanns dump Clarence Mitchell

Post  bluebell on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 6:03 pm

Poe wrote:This is just pure speculation on my part but what if the legal contract between Clarrie & the McCanns states that Clarrie's job is to represent the McCanns in the media without him having any knowledge of the actual events surrounding Madeleine's disappearance other than what the McCanns tell him.

Like Carter Ruck if he works on the presumption that they are innocent and ignores all evidence to the contrary, unless there is absolute proof he knows what happened, he can claim he was duped.
.
RSBM


Bit like any Defence Lawyer ????

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Re: McCanns dump Clarence Mitchell

Post  Châtelaine on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 6:18 pm

RSBM?
Do enlighten me :-)
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Re: McCanns dump Clarence Mitchell

Post  bluebell on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 6:36 pm

Are you referring to the RSBM  abbreviation Chatelaine  ?

Sorrey, it stands for Respectfully Snipped By Me

Used when some parts of a quote are deleted for space as not always relevant to the answer provided.

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Re: McCanns dump Clarence Mitchell

Post  Châtelaine on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 6:56 pm

I thought I was "au courant "with abbreviations.
But, thanks, this was a new one to me.
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Re: McCanns dump Clarence Mitchell

Post  poster on Fri 02 Sep 2016, 9:03 pm

chrissie wrote:https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1694829/kate-and-gerry-mccann-dump-long-serving-spokesman-in-bid-to-cut-spiralling-costs-of-hunt-for-missing-tot/

THE parents of Madeleine McCann have axed their long-serving spokesman in a bit cut costs.

Kate and Gerry dumped PR guru Clarence Mitchell after nine years as they face a cash crisis.

They have just five more weeks of Government funding towards the hunt for their missing girl.

The couple have vowed to use money from their official fund to continue the search themselves, adding:”We will continue to do everything we can to help find our daughter.

“Our hope and resolve continues.”

Gerry told Mr Mitchell in an email his “services were no longer needed” and he needed to “cut costs”.

The former BBC journalist was said to be “hurt” but respects their “more pressing agenda”.


The McCanns’ fun stands at £480,000 but they face a £434,000 libel to former Portuguese police chief Goncalo Amaral.

It is the first time since the three-year-old went missing from a holiday flat in Praia da Luz, Portugal, in May 2007, that Kate and Gerry have not had a spokesman.

Mr Mitchell told the Mirror: “It makes perfect sense for Kate and Gerry to keep careful consideration over all their costs.
“I will continue to help them as circumstances require.”

Last week the Metropolitan Police announced it may push for more government cash to help the hunt for Maddie.

Brit cops were granted £95,000 to keep the investigation going in April.

But the cash is expected to run out in October.

The McCann’s are bracing themselves for Scotland Yard ending the probe on October 5.

Cops have said there is now only one lead “worth pursuing”.

Well, personally I think there has been a falling out or Clarissa knows what's coming

With regard to the sentences in red above. I can only imagine what their pressing 'wider agenda' is now - saving their necks, presumably.

Interesting choice of words here: "The McCann’s are bracing themselves for Scotland Yard ending the probe on October 5."

Only one lead worth pursuing - now I wonder who that might be....hmmm....I think the Mcs might just be pooping themselves...
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Re: McCanns dump Clarence Mitchell

Post  Andrew on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 9:40 am

Just read from over the way from the man who's reappeared, that Clarence Mitchell works for the MI5.... Apparently 2 separate journalists told him this back in 2008...

Be interesting if he could shed a bit more light on the backstory of this... Who the journalists worked for, what are their names, how the conversation was instigated... etc,etc.

Although I'm sure for "legal reasons" he can't or won't be able to divulge. Very Happy
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Re: McCanns dump Clarence Mitchell

Post  Bampots on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 11:32 am

I don't find that in the least bit surprising and have suggested as much on here before! If you really think this is simple and straightforward as in KISS then its impossible....... But for me its highly probable .......why would Jim Gamble stick his oar in?
It all stinks ......why the courting of the Macs by the high and mighty......just two doctors who as of this moment still seem bullet proof. Gonzalo states we will only know the truth when agency files are open to the public! What is simple about any of it and why do seem so intent on screaming it has to be simple and anyone who believes otherwise is a Looney. Why on earth do we have recent images of the Macs in the company of David Steel and that anonymous millionaire,no family near them no mates.....just wannabe movers and charity sluts akin to missing people......simple? If only.......

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Re: McCanns dump Clarence Mitchell

Post  Andrew on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 11:52 am

That's a fair comment, Bampots. I appreciate some think it's very complex and others disagree. Nothing wrong with that in the slightest. And good to discuss.

If Clarence works for the MI5 then I feel the gentleman over the road should elaborate further on this claim... (questions that I stated). That was really the point I was making.
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