The Mystery of Ben Needham

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Bampots on Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:35 pm

Heisenburg wrote:Bit more,also posted in the dog section for it contains reference to dogs.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pioneering-scientific-proof-behind-blood-10858707.amp
Interesting that the dogs are ok.....

[*]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pioneering-scientific-proof-behind-blood-10858707.amp

Operation Ben Needham turned to Texas Body Farm for help with clues found on Kos

The lab, officially the Forensic Anthropology Research Facility (FARF), is used by students, researchers and law enforcement worldwide

ByLucy Thornton
22:23, 23 JUL 2017

South Yorkshire Police’s Operation Ben Needham team turned to the Texas Body Farm’for help in the hunt for clues.

The lab, officially the Forensic Anthropology Research Facility (FARF), is used by students, researchers and law enforcement worldwide.

It was branded the ‘body farm’ as human remains are scattered across the ground as the flesh slowly rots from the bones.

There are dozens of bodies strewn about a wooded hillside in the US.

Some are complete cadavers, but there are also limbs, organs and body fluids, including blood, scattered around the 26-acre outdoor site.

Some of the cadavers are confined in cages to be studied for bacterial decomposition while others lay unprotected to track the effects of scavenging.

The lab has only been open since 2008 and already the remains of 150 individuals have been studied.

Another 200 still-living people have pre-registered to add their bodies for future research. It has been hailed as a pioneering facility crucial to science.

The facility has been regularly visited by police, prosecutors and coroners since the 1980s, is also used to help identify plane crash victims and those buried in mass war graves.

A local deer also visited, making headlines after being caught on camera chewing on a human rib.

The research laboratory in Knoxville provides a unique opportunity for CSI teams to replicate murder scenes.

Arpad Vass, a senior research scientist, helped the ‘Operation Ben’ team.

As well as providing decomposition compounds to compare he also advocates the use of dogs.

He said they can detect the scent of human remains under 30 metres of water, some can also detect traces as small as a shard of bone or drop of blood.

They can also tell the difference between, a dead raccoon and a dead hiker.

“Most think an odour is just made of one chemical, when in reality it is made up of dozens or hundreds of chemicals,” he has explained.

Once the donor bodies are removed from FARF and processed they are kept for ever in the Texas State Donated Skeletal Collection for future research.

Is this the door marked exit?

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Châtelaine on Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:08 pm

I'm a big "fan" of Dr. Arpad Vass and his "Body Farm".
Groundbreaking research in efforts to analyse way and time of death.
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Bampots on Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:26 am

Peronally I find it hugely significant the way that the dogs are slowly creeping into this tragic tale. The site has moved from the house to the site 750 meters away and back and Kerry speaks of a multiple people coverup.....
Let' s hope Ben gets justice!! Soon-!

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Mimi on Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:19 am

It`s so confusing reading all these different reports - I still don`t understand where and when each item was found.

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Freedom on Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:40 am

Sadly for Kerry, there seems to be little doubt that the only people guilty of a cover-up are members of her own family.
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Mimi on Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:02 pm

From 9:20 mins to 16:30 mins


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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Freedom on Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:30 pm

Another thing that Richard and Tony Bennett agree on then - that Stephen Needham accidentally killed Ben while taking him for a ride on his bike and hid the body.

Tony has returned today and posted this.

Two years ago a forum member kindly donated to me the book 'Ben' by Kerry Needham. It's the hardback edition, first published in 2013.

On page 85, Kerry Needham writes:

"Ben didn't care about wearing only a T-shirt and little buckled sandals any more than he did about being wet".

She had also referred earlier to Stephen "...dousing Ben with another bowl of water onto his head".
Incidentally a photo of Ben wearing these buckled sandals can be seen on one of the films of Richard Hall's tour last year, here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3GoaUH5BKE&t=1027s

Richard deals with the Ben Needham story in some detail between 7 mins 45 secs and 16 mins 35 secs; the pic of Ben on a motor-bike (scooter really) wearing his sandals is at 10 mins 30 secs.

In the video Richard queries why South Yorkshire Police became involved again and why they needed to send out a whole team of people to excavate the area around the cottage where Ben and his family were staying - and compares the dig on the island of Kos with the dig in areas of waste ground in Praia da Luz in 2014 in the Madeleine McCann case.

In his latest tour, Richard dealt in more detail with the Ben Needham case, focusing on interviews carried out with Stephen in the documentary 'Ben Needham - Somebody Knows', link here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32xqT0mlXdo

In his talk, Richard examines a segment of an interview with Stephen Needham which runs for 15 seconds, between 11 mins 21 secs and 11 mins 36 secs.

Surely one of the clearest examples of 'Duper's Delight' that you could ever wish to see is at 11 mins 32 secs to 11 mins 36 secs.

The sequence where Stephen is placed under hypnosis is also worth detailed scrutiny; it lasts from 35 mins 00 secs to 45 mins 55 secs.

The reaction of Stephen to 'awkward' questions is especially instructive.

At one point, faced with a difficult question, there is a shout outburst of nose-scratching.

If you watch to the end of this sequence, it becomes crystal clear that throughout being placed under hypnosis, he is in control all the time, and indeed his answers are slow, with many pauses, as if he is thinking very carefully about what he can and can't say.

[NOTE: Stephen maintains that images in his mind of Ben falling off the motor-bike and being run over by the back wheel of the bike were 'put there' by the Greek police insinuating that that is what happened to Ben].

--------------------

I cannot accept that Ben Needham was run over by a dead digger-driver.

I cannot accept that South Yorkshire Police's re-involvement in this case, and their sending an expeditionary force to Kos at great expenditure to the British taxpayer, was a genuine search for the truth.

In short, I do not believe a word that they have said about the disappearance of Ben Needham.

Finally, it is becoming ever harder to believe that when a British police officer speaks these days, s/he is telling the truth.

May all the lies told by British police officers to cover up the truth be exposed one day.

The sooner, the better.
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  poster on Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:08 pm

Surely one of the clearest examples of 'Duper's Delight' that you could ever wish to see is at 11 mins 32 secs to 11 mins 36 secs.

Agreed. Chilling.

Irrespective of whatever happened, I wonder if there were some major jealousy issues going on within the family?

ETA: Totally agree Freedom:

I cannot accept that Ben Needham was run over by a dead digger-driver.

I cannot accept that South Yorkshire Police's re-involvement in this case, and their sending an expeditionary force to Kos at great expenditure to the British taxpayer, was a genuine search for the truth.

In short, I do not believe a word that they have said about the disappearance of Ben Needham.

Finally, it is becoming ever harder to believe that when a British police officer speaks these days, s/he is telling the truth.

May all the lies told by British police officers to cover up the truth be exposed one day.

The sooner, the better.


The story does not have a leg to stand on, imo. Rather like another story that does not have a leg to stand on. Rather like the UK police returning to Luz and uncovering a sock and a few bones.

I guess the question is: WHY - the stories are both BS, imo. Why these cases and not other cases?


Last edited by poster on Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Mimi on Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:10 pm

Thanks Freedom. It seems the most likely scenario to me, always has done, especially after seeing S under hypnosis plus the turquoise shorts business. OMG I actually agree with TB pale

Unless of course the grandparents know differently.

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Re:The Mystery of Ben Needham.

Post  costello on Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:17 pm

You are not alone on this one Mimi.I wouldn't worry about agreeing with TB here, I would think most people do.
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Mimi on Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:34 pm

If true, it`s a terrible thing for S to have to live with. K must know - it must have been obvious and she`s hardly naive.

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Freedom on Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:51 am

Just to make it clear that the quote from Poster at 11.08 yesterday (starting "I cannot accept that....") is from Tony and not myself.

I still think that the younger brother Danny - who was 11 and not 15 as Richard D Hall said - may have been involved in whatever happened. There are quotes earlier that it was necessary to protect him - why?

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  mumof6 on Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:13 am

Why are we spending a load of money sending our police force out of the UK to investigate things that are out of our jurisdiction?

Can anyone imagine how we would feel if the German police force started digging up the moors, for instance?


British law has no jurisdiction. Some countries retain jurisdiction over their own nationals, so, for instance, a German national can be tried in Germany for crimes committed elsewhere, but they don't send their police force all over the world.


What sort of insanity is making our government spend a small fortune on sending police out to foreign countries? There are plenty of disappeared people here, plenty of cold crimes here, so why are we, as a country, making that decision?

What is our government hoping to gain by spending so much money on something so pointless? (Except to the family, obviously, but individual families don't normally get that much spent on them).

Ben Needham's mother would be permitted to die if she needed a cancer drug that cost a fraction of what has been spent here.
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Freedom on Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:59 am

I can't help but agree with that, mum.

If every deserving cause (not to mention some that are less deserving) had the time and money devoted to it as this one has (albeit belatedly many years after the event) then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I think the same of the Corrie McKeague case - different circumstances of course and not involving police forces from another country - but why is this very routine missing person case being afforded so much time and resources?
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Mimi on Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:56 am

Freedom wrote:

I still think that the younger brother Danny - who was 11 and not 15 as Richard D Hall said - may have been involved in whatever happened. There are quotes earlier that it was necessary to protect him - why?  


I`d forgotten all about him - where was he supposed to be at the time? The grandparents didn`t mention him in the film, Grandma just walked to the building site with Ben - was Danny already at the site with the owner, Eddie and Stephen ?

He`s a singer - actually got a good voice.

http://www.dannyfisher.co.uk/div-stylepositionrelativeheight0padding-bottom5625iframe-srchttpswwwyoutubecomembedeis2xohialiecver2-width640-height360-frameborder0-stylepositionabsolutewidth100height100left0-allowfullscreeniframediv

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Freedom on Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:01 pm

There's a light-hearted topic about Danny here.

http://maddiemccannmystery.forumotion.co.uk/t1584-just-who-is-it-who-s-lonesome-tonight

He was working on the roof (yes, aged 11) at the time that Ben went missing. He had walked with his mother and Ben to the site at around lunchtime.
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Mimi on Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:57 pm

Freedom wrote:There's a light-hearted topic about Danny here.

http://maddiemccannmystery.forumotion.co.uk/t1584-just-who-is-it-who-s-lonesome-tonight

He was working on the roof (yes, aged 11) at the time that Ben went missing. He had walked with his mother and Ben to the site at around lunchtime.


Did you get that from Kerry`s book cos he wasn`t mentioned in the documentary ?

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Freedom on Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:00 pm

From memory - too many pages to go back through - it is definitely in the book. There were discussions about the wisdom (?) of taking two children on a long walk in appallingly hot temperatures.
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Mimi on Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:14 pm

Mimi wrote:
Freedom wrote:

I still think that the younger brother Danny - who was 11 and not 15 as Richard D Hall said - may have been involved in whatever happened. There are quotes earlier that it was necessary to protect him - why?  


I`d forgotten all about him - where was he supposed to be at the time?  The grandparents didn`t mention him in the film,  Grandma just walked to the building site with Ben - was Danny already at the site with the owner, Eddie and Stephen ?

He`s a singer - actually got a good voice.

http://www.dannyfisher.co.uk/div-stylepositionrelativeheight0padding-bottom5625iframe-srchttpswwwyoutubecomembedeis2xohialiecver2-width640-height360-frameborder0-stylepositionabsolutewidth100height100left0-allowfullscreeniframediv

After looking at the `Are You Lonesome Tonight` topic, I realise the link I posted above is not the same Danny Fisher - sorry.

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Mimi on Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:15 pm

Freedom wrote:From memory - too many pages to go back through - it is definitely in the book. There were discussions about the wisdom (?) of taking two children on a long walk in appallingly hot temperatures.

..... and a dog. Yes I remember a discussion about it now. Your memory is really good Freedom. Mine`s awful.

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Freedom on Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:20 pm

Anything involving a walk in near tropical conditions sticks in my mind because it is something so awful for me!

I think that it's in the book that Kerry said that it was the first time that Ben had ever been taken to the site but, in a blog entry some years later, she said that he had been there many times.

There should be no discrepancy with something factual.
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Châtelaine on Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:38 pm

Freedom wrote: [...] I think that it's in the book that Kerry said that it was the first time that Ben had ever been taken to the site but, in a blog entry some years later, she said that he had been there many times.

There should be no discrepancy with something factual.
***
That's suspicious.
I haven't followed this case closely, but of late get the feeling, that actually practically everyone knows what happened, but nobody wants to blame the other :-(
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Freedom on Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:05 pm

If you ever get the time or the energy, there are an earlier 40 pages on this case here.

http://maddiemccannmystery.forumotion.co.uk/t1567-the-mystery-of-ben-needham?highlight=ben+needham

I have certainly learned in recent years that, like another case, the chance that this one was a stranger abduction is virtually zero.
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Freedom on Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:24 pm

Here's the link to Kerry's blog from a post on page 11 of the previous 40.

Now here's a blog from Kerry, dated Thursday, October 4, 2007, which contradicts the book:

"July 24, 1991
My dad and my brother Stephen had gone to work, they were restoring an old farmhouse in the remote village on the island, called Heracles.
I had also gone to work, at the "Palm Beach" Hotel, situated near the beach, where I worked as a waitress.
Ben was at home with my mum, as she was always looking after him during my long working hours.
Around lunchtime, my mum with Ben and Danny, went to the farmhouse where my dad and Stephen were working, to have their lunch.
Nothing unusual about this, they had done so, many a time.
The table was set indoors, Ben was playing with his toys, just outside the doorway and he kept running in and out of the house, getting water and pouring it over himself. It was a scorcher of a day, at 42°C or about 105ºF."

http://benneedham18.blogspot.co.uk/2007/10/never-ending-nightmare.html
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  poster on Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:06 pm

A slightly longer extract from Kerry's account of what happened. I've put my thoughts about what has been written in italics rather than blue ink - ahem!

It was about 14:30, when my dad, told Stephen he can have the rest of the day off, because some building material had not arrived, so there was nothing else to do there.

Given that it was a scorcher of a day, surely they would adopt the Mediterranean approach approach and down tools for the afternoon having a long lunch and then a lie down? I would think it far more likely that Stephen was given the rest of the day off as it was a scorcher and he and Ben were getting hot and bothered at the farmhouse. When it's that hot, you want to be in or near water or somewhere air-conditioned.


As Stephen was leaving the farmhouse, on his moped/motorbike, Ben was playing quite hapilly. Ben looked up at Stephen, -he wanted to go with him-, but Stephen told him to "Go inside to grandpa".

If Ben was playing quite happily, then why did he want to go off with Stephen? I would think it far more likely that the pair were too hot at the farmhouse, miles from the sea and nowhere near a pool and that both of them wanted to cool off. I think it more likely that Ben was wanting to be taken to a swimming pool/beach on the back of Stephen's moped. The insertion of 'Ben was playing quite happily' into the account above is, I suspect, a deliberate distraction. If you take that bit out you get: 'As Stephen was leaving the farmhouse on his moped/motorbike, Ben looked up at Stephen - he wanted to go with him - but Stephen told him to "Go inside to grandpa" '. This is a toddler of not yet two. Children of this age are right 'in the moment'. They want what they want and when they don't get it they cry and protest. If Ben had wanted (and expected?) to go off on Stephen's moped and Stephen had barked at him: 'Go inside to grandpa', Ben would likely have heavily protested. He would not just have happily carried on playing outside.

A few minutes later, -no more than 5 minutes-, my mum had noticed that Ben was quiet, and she went outside to check.

As suggested above, if Ben had wanted and perhaps expected to go off with Stephen he would not have been quiet when Stephen left but would have been very vocal indeed! I suspect the reason that Ben was quiet was because Ben wasn't there!

My dad went around to the back of the house and my mum walked the driveway, looked down the lane, but could not see Ben anywhere.
My mum then, shouted "Eddie can you see Ben?".

It's a boiling hot day - too hot to have been wandering in driveways and down lanes - way too hot especially at 2pm when the sun is high in the sky. Why would her mum shout 'Eddie can you see Ben?' when she was walking down the driveway and lane? Presumably the pair would arrive back at the house and be frantic, saying they couldn't find Ben.


They continued calling his name while walking around the area around the farmhouse, for more than an hour.
NO RESPONSE! NO SIGHT OF BEN!
BEN HAD VANISHED!!!

An hour is a long time to be looking for a toddler. The use of capitals here (as elsewhere) indicates emphasis and, in the context of a missing child, one would assume shock and horror...so what happens next?


My parents took a few minutes to gather their thoughts and came to the conclusion that my brother Stephen must have taken Ben with him, for a little ride on the moped.

Uh?? This is what has already been written after Stephen left on his moped and there was no sound from Ben for several minutes: BEN WAS NOT THERE!  This, after an hour of searching in the scorching heat: NO RESPONSE! NO SIGHT OF BEN!
BEN HAD VANISHED!!!
So what would you expect the frantic adults to do/say next? According to Kerry:  


My mum remarked: "How stupid of Stephen not to tell us"

Uh?? But they were frantic.... do you 'remark' when you are frantic?  So what happens next...?

My mum then decided to walk back home and look for them on her way there, she thought that Stephen and Ben might be home already.
Dad stayed behind to put his tools away and then join my mum at home.

Kind of chilled, in the context of having searched for missing Ben and still not knowing where he was or who he was with. I wonder why a leisurely walk in 104 degrees was such a great idea and why Dad thought putting tools away was a priority?

When my mum arrived home, there was no sign of Ben, but she knew that Stephen had been back as he had left the petrol for the generator. Stephen, had not left a note to say where he would be though.
My mum was really furious with him.

OK - interesting. But she didn't do anything?  She was 'furious' rather than really worried? Surely she should be really worried at this point?  

Dad arrived home around 16:30 and there was still no sign of Stephen, so he decided to check in my apartment, as Stephen used to live with me.

Ok....that's interesting....why was Kerrie's Dad checking for signs of Stephen at her apartment - I thought they were looking for Ben?

Stephen was there, but not Ben!

Ah.....

Stephen said to my dad: "Ben was playing at the farmhouse when I left".

Right....yes, I guess he would say that

My dad and Stephen, raced back home to tell my mum that Ben had not been with him.

Okay....if you say so....

Worried sick, they went straight to the police in the city of Kos, as the time was about 17:30.

But I thought they had been 'worried sick' three hours ago - only on account of what has been said already which would suggest they were really worried about where Ben was.

The police took my parents back to Heracles to search the area, one more time.
Just as I was finishing work, around 22:00, my mum arrived at the hotel with the police to inform me that my boy had gone missing.

I'm sorry - I cannot believe this. Ben went missing at 2pm (ish) and his mum was not told about this until 10pm - 7 hours later....BS...
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