The Mystery of Ben Needham

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Andrew on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 10:58 pm

... It could be argued that some of Ben's family actually know the truth.

Just saying.....
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Freedom on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 7:04 am

I don't see how some of them can possibly be unaware of what happened but - IF that's the case - I don't know how they have kept up the pretence for so long.

Let's ignore any more recent disappearances where the same thing applies!
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  chrissie on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 10:26 am

Is Ben Needham still out there, even after police dig up his toy car?

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/crime/is-ben-needham-still-out-there-even-after-police-dig-up-his-toy-car-1-8184046

From the article:

Miss Needham said the family had been given the option of gathering at the farmhouse to mark Ben’s death.


This is the bit I can't get. The police haven't provided any evidence that Ben is dead, it is their professional opinion.
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Andrew on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 10:58 am

Snipped from one of the breaking Mirror articles (before it was named as a toy car)

DI Cousins added that when he showed the item to Ben's family "the reaction I got from them leads me to believe it was taken on or around the day he disappeared)".


I find this interesting about the reaction bit.......

And then a couple of days later, we have the 'not certain it was Ben's toy car' etc coming out.....

(Probably watched too many true crime docs)




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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  chirpyinsect on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 2:23 pm

In another place ChippyM seems to think that there is only one way Ben's car could have ended up in the rubble but surely, had he dropped it then work commenced on that spot it could have been picked up by the digger.Ben did not need to be holding it.
Then thinking about if the digger was working whilst Ben was out of sight of the grandparents, would they not have asked Dino if he had seen the child? They obviously didn't foresee the danger but surely they would have considered it after he was found missing.
Does anyone recall anyone saying Dino was asked. I know he helped the police but I'm thinking of Eddie or Christine. They say it was only a few minutes that he was gone so even if an accident happened, how would Dino have been able to conceal his body so quickly?
I rarely agree with TB but I reckon he is right to be suspicious of this story.
I still feel Stephen knows more. I wonder how well he knew the friend of Dino.

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Andrew on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 3:19 pm

I'm intrigued to know whether any of Dino's machinery was used in the afternoon at all... Without his knowledge and when he wasn't there....
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  froggy on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 3:27 pm

Andrew wrote:I'm intrigued to know whether any of Dino's machinery was used in the afternoon at all... Without his knowledge and when he wasn't there....


It's a possibility. Apparently these types of vehicle had a universal ignition key, so starting one up illicitly may not be difficult.
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  TheTruthWillOut on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 3:49 pm

Andrew wrote:I'm intrigued to know whether any of Dino's machinery was used in the afternoon at all... Without his knowledge and when he wasn't there....

That line in the SYP press release does say 'machinery, including a digger' so that right there gives rise to the possibility that an accident could have happened with another piece of equipment and/or person.

We don't even know what digger was there that day. The Mirror claim it was the behemoth Leibherr 952 they tracked down which weighs 46 tonnes and has a top speed of 5km/h or 3.5MPH i.e. it crawls along very slowly and it swivels in place. A JCB 3cx (SYP specifically mentioned a JCB) on the other hand weighs 8 tonnes and can go 38KM/H or 23MPH. If there was more than one machine there that day again questions are raised why Dino is getting the blame.

I have a question about DI Cousins/SYP. Has he, or anyone for SYP, stated on record/video they believe Dino is responsible? Quoted in a article or on a video briefing?

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Bampots on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 4:05 pm

Andrew wrote:South Yorkshire Police
51 mins ·
UPDATE: Operation Ben excavation work in Kos draws to a close

On 24 July 1991, 21-month-old Ben Needham disappeared from a farmhouse in the Iraklis area of Kos, Greece.

Since that day, a worldwide and very complex investigation has taken place and South Yorkshire Police have been supporting Ben’s family in their search for answers.

This work has intensified in the last 19 months when a Home Office funded team was dedicated to Operation Ben, resulting in a three-week search of two sites on the island.

The searches have been targeted, and of the highest forensic integrity. After 3,600 hours of work physically digging and 1,200 tonnes of material sifted, this phase of the operation has now ended. The team will soon return to the UK, along with some of the items recovered during the search.

Detective Inspector Jon Cousins, the Senior Investigating Officer in Operation Ben, said: “During the course of the enquiries we have made over the last 19 months, we have closed off a large number of theories about what happened to Ben, many of which have been open for over 20 years.

“However, based on the information that I have now, as a result of an extensive and thorough investigation, it is without doubt that the current line of enquiry is the most probable cause for Ben’s disappearance.

“My team and I know that machinery, including a large digger, was used to clear an area of land on 24 July 1991, behind the farmhouse that was being renovated by the Needham’s. It is my professional belief that Ben Needham died as a result of an accident near to the farmhouse in Iraklis where he was last seen playing.

“The events leading up to and following that incident have been explored by my team of experts to great lengths. The fact that we have not had a direct result during this visit to Kos does not preclude the facts that we know to be true.

“An item found on Saturday, which I have shown personally to some of Ben’s family, was found in one of the targeted areas at the second site, very close to a dated item from 1991.

“It is our initial understanding that this item was in Ben’s possession around the time he went missing.

“The recovery of this item, and its location, further adds to my belief that material was removed from the farmhouse on or shortly after the day that Ben disappeared.

“Ben’s family have been provided with a full and thorough account of the events which we know to have taken place and also the speculations that we have been able to discount. Our thoughts are with the family as they are given time to digest this and they have our full and continued support.

“Our drive has always been the family, and their welfare. Ben's family have never given up on the team and I am incredibly thankful for their constant inspiration.

“We are also grateful to the current Greek authorities for their assistance, and the help received from the Home Office and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office has been vital in allowing the team to continue getting answers for a family in need.

“We remain committed to the investigation and it will not simply close; myself and Detective Superintendent Matt Fenwick will retain ownership of it and if new information comes to light, we will investigate it thoroughly. We will not stop in our quest to find further answers for Ben’s family.”

From the above they say.......

The events leading up to and following that incident have been explored by my team of experts to great lengths. The fact that we have not had a direct result during this visit to Kos does not preclude the facts that we know to be true.......


He does make that statement above ending with......we know to be true... so what is it they know!?

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  chirpyinsect on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 4:09 pm

An item found on Saturday, which I have shown personally to some of Ben’s family, was found in one of the targeted areas at the second site, very close to a dated item from 1991.

Wonder what the dated item could be.

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Andrew on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 4:32 pm

froggy wrote:
Andrew wrote:I'm intrigued to know whether any of Dino's machinery was used in the afternoon at all... Without his knowledge and when he wasn't there....


It's a possibility. Apparently these types of vehicle had a universal ignition key, so starting one up illicitly may not be difficult.

I doubt you'd even need one of those. I'd bet keys were just left in regardless back then. Especially there.

Even farmers near me would do that with tractors 25 years ago.
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Andrew on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 4:36 pm

TheTruthWillOut wrote:
Andrew wrote:I'm intrigued to know whether any of Dino's machinery was used in the afternoon at all... Without his knowledge and when he wasn't there....

That line in the SYP press release does say 'machinery, including a digger' so that right there gives rise to the possibility that an accident could have happened with another piece of equipment and/or person.

We don't even know what digger was there that day. The Mirror claim it was the behemoth Leibherr 952 they tracked down which weighs 46 tonnes and has a top speed of 5km/h or 3.5MPH i.e. it crawls along very slowly and it swivels in place. A JCB 3cx (SYP specifically mentioned a JCB) on the other hand weighs 8 tonnes and can go 38KM/H or 23MPH. If there was more than one machine there that day again questions are raised why Dino is getting the blame.  

I have a question about DI Cousins/SYP. Has he, or anyone for SYP, stated on record/video they believe Dino is responsible? Quoted in a article or on a video briefing?

Regarding the last para.. Good question.

Not sure off the top of my head. I'm on phone now so hard to check but interested to know though.

 
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  froggy on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 4:36 pm

“It is our initial understanding that this item was in Ben’s possession around the time he went missing."

If that was their initial understanding, what is their understanding now?

The facts they know to be true may have no relevance. EG it is a fact that Dino was working machinery that day. What does that prove?
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Andrew on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 4:48 pm

chirpyinsect wrote:An item found on Saturday, which I have shown personally to some of Ben’s family, was found in one of the targeted areas at the second site, very close to a dated item from 1991.

Wonder what the dated item could be.

... also, this phase of the investigation has now ended.

So what's the next phase then?
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  froggy on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 4:53 pm

Andrew wrote:
chirpyinsect wrote:An item found on Saturday, which I have shown personally to some of Ben’s family, was found in one of the targeted areas at the second site, very close to a dated item from 1991.

Wonder what the dated item could be.

... also, this phase of the investigation has now ended.

So what's the next phase then?

There isn't one. The case will now be put in the pending file awaiting any new development. Cousins et all will be deployed onto other more pressing tasks.
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Andrew on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 5:07 pm

Could DI Cousins be playing a blinder though.... Lots he knows (not said) to unravel the truth.... More to it to come when tests are completed etc....

Or has he had orders to get things wrapped up quickly and the toy car/digger was the best they had...
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  froggy on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 5:20 pm

Andrew wrote:Could DI Cousins be playing a blinder though.... Lots he knows (not said) to unravel the truth.... More to it to come when tests are completed etc....

Or has he had orders to get things wrapped up quickly and the toy car/digger was the best they had...


Tests may very well prove to be unhelpful. Obviously they hoped for a more positive outcome and are trying to make the best of what they've got.
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Andrew on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 7:13 pm

.. Yeah, so they say.

But by all accounts they're not saying all they know.

A few more twists in this possibly..

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  canada12 on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 8:55 pm

The "dated item" could be Ben's sandal (or a piece of it). They know the sandals were made on the island and it could only have been during a certain period when Ben was there - if they've spoken to the fellow who made the sandals he'd be able to corroborate when he made them and would likely (hopefully) have a record of payment, with a date.

So if they've found Ben's sandal, or a piece of it, that would be confirmation of something more definite than a toy car. If it was confirmed Ben was wearing the sandals when last seen, then why would a piece of that same sandal (or the whole sandal) be found buried?

Of course we don't know if that's what they've found, but why request some replica sandals otherwise?
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  froggy on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 9:15 pm

Why request duplicate sandals anyway? They presumably hadn't found any sandal parts at that time so why go to the effort in advance?
It all sounds rather odd.
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  seahorse on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 9:22 pm

I think it is more likely they have found an item with 1991 actually printed on it.

A bit like the beer cans they found in 2012 with an expiry date of 1992 on it:


"They have now dug down to the level the soil would have been at in 1991.

Crucially, they have found the wheels and bonnet of metal Dinky cars Ben was playing with at the time.

Inspector Colin Hope said: “We are clearing the mound. We have been able to excavate down and we are recovering items like old beer cans which have sell-by dates of 1992.

“So we are certainly down to the level we need to be at and beyond.

“We have small parts of what look like tiny, little cars.

“We have found plastic bits of toys, little bits of dolls, from two metres out from the house to 30 metres. Some of those have been taken down and shown to the Needhams.

“They don’t recognise them, but that’s to be expected after the time we are looking at.”

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/ben-needhams-mum-in-emotional-return-1396168
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  froggy on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 9:27 pm

How very convenient that would be.  Sounds similar to those bombers who just happened to have their passports with them.

Not sure how that would help anyway, as there is no dispute that debris was dumped there in 1991. The only thing that couldn't be explained would be bones or clothing that he was known to be wearing.
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  seahorse on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 9:30 pm

I know froggy.

The cynic in me also thinks that since the media shouted so loud that SYP were looking for Ben's dinky toy in their 2012 dig, that it could well have been planted by someone in the last 4 years.
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  dogs don't lie on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 10:48 pm

What really bothers me about the car and dated item is, if they've found Bens car, why on earth would they stop there? Why not keep at it and find him?

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  canada12 on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 11:32 pm

dogs don't lie wrote:What really bothers me about the car and dated item is, if they've found Bens car, why on earth would they stop there? Why not keep at it and find him?

Perhaps they've concluded that his body was once there, but was moved.
But without any clues as to where it might have been moved to, they can't really start digging up the island at random locations.
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