The Mystery of Ben Needham

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Andrew on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 8:22 am

Fair play to the sister. She's not buying it either.

The gist:

Gran is not certain that it was Ben's toy car. 90% sure. Not certain it's the same one (lots of other toy cars were found but didn't catch where)

Not definitive proof that Ben is dead.

Sister remains hopeful that Ben is still alive.

Angry that were told to prepare for the worst but then no sign of Ben at all.

More determined than ever to find out what happened to Ben.

Sit down with the rest of the family next week and work out what to do next.

Will continue to search and self-fund it if H.O stop funding.

No proof that Ben is dead and remain hopeful that he's alive still.

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  chrissie on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 9:34 am

Yes, I saw it Andrew. The whole thing doesn't make sense especially as they are not 100% that the toy car did belong to Ben. Pleased that she is questioning it.
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  chrissie on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 9:50 am

Ben Needham sister: We remain hopeful he's still out there

http://www.itv.com/news/2016-10-18/ben-needham-sister-we-remain-hopeful-hes-still-out-there/

The younger sister of missing toddler Ben Needham has said the family is determined to continue searching for him and "still remain hopeful he's out there."

On Sunday, police found a toy car which they claimed to have belonged to Ben on the day he disappeared, before he died in an accident.

However speaking to Good Morning Britain on Tuesday, Leigh-Anna Needham dismissed their claim and said finding the toy "doesn't actually say anything to me".

"It could be Ben's, but it could also not be Ben's. We can't say for definite that it is Ben's toy car - that could've been any toy.

"I still remain hopeful that he's out there. The toy car's been shown to my mum and to my grandparents - my mum obviously broke down. They vaguely remember a toy car but... my nan is only 90% sure that it was similar to the one that Ben had.

"Over the three weeks [of digging], police have come across a number of toys. That farmhouse has been a family home to many people throughout many generations."

Holding back tears, she said her family has been going through a torturous time and felt "half-angry" at the authorities who have so far failed to find definitive proof that he died.

"We've been stuck in limbo for 25 years. I don't think my grandparents can take much more of this. It's absolutely destroyed my family and now I'm even more determined to find out what happened on that day.
"I'm sort of half-angry they didn't find anything, because we were told to prepare for the worst and we believed... that we were going to find him, bring him back and....deal with the grieving process.

"We would [have closure] and we could try and move on with our lives."

For the past three weeks, members of the Greek rescue service on the island of Kos have been assisting a specialist search team from South Yorkshire Police.

Detective Inspector John Cousins, speaking to reporters on Monday, said he believed Ben died after a "digger accident."

However it is a theory Leigh-Anne refuses to believe without "definitive proof".

She said: "It's based on probable doubt. That's what they believe may have happened to Ben without definitive proof, without any form of remains, then I will always remain hopeful that he's out there."

Leigh-Anne never met her elder brother as she was born three years after the 21-month-old disappeared on the Greek island, but has vowed to continue searching for him.

"I never met him but the bond that I feel for him - at the end of the day he's my flesh and blood. If it was me that was missing or me that was lost I wouldn't want anyone to give up on me at the last hurdle. We've fought for 25 years - I'm not about to stop now.

"We've got to sit down as a family and see where we go from here. We've funded everything on our own anyway - if it means we have to continue doing that then so be it."

She said the family were given the option of going to the farmhouse "to say goodbye", but it's something "they can't do".

"It's not something we can do, because there's no proof that he's there so how can we say goodbye to someone knowing that there is still that hope?

"When there is still that hope there is still a fight. I'm prepared to fight tooth and nail until I get to the bottom of this."
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  candyfloss on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 9:50 am




The son of Kos digger driver Konstantino ‘Dinos’ Barkas has told of his anger that his father has been branded the killer of missing toddler Ben Needham without ‘a shred of evidence’.



Yep, I find it despicable that they can do this.  SY police either put up or shut up, either tell us what this evidence is on this man because a toy and words from a witness does not cut the mustard!

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Andrew on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 10:34 am

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  froggy on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 10:44 am

candyfloss wrote:



The son of Kos digger driver Konstantino ‘Dinos’ Barkas has told of his anger that his father has been branded the killer of missing toddler Ben Needham without ‘a shred of evidence’.



Yep, I find it despicable that they can do this.  SY police either put up or shut up, either tell us what this evidence is on this man because a toy and words from a witness does not cut the mustard!

I fancy they won't be doing that anytime soon as it won't stand scrutiny, bur Mr Cousins has given us his professional belief, so that should be enough, shouldn't it Very Happy
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Andrew on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 2:27 pm

froggy wrote:“My team and I know that machinery, including a large digger, was used to clear an area of land on 24 July 1991, behind the farmhouse that was being renovated by the Needham’s. It is my professional belief that Ben Needham died as a result of an accident near to the farmhouse in Iraklis where he was last seen playing."

The wording is interesting because it doesn't indicate what sort of accident, nor does it state outright that the digger was involved. Readers are led,  by implication, to the idea that the digger operator was to blame, even though they don't actually say that.
A convenient ending for the police.

I wonder how many will actually believe that?

I've just read that released statement again, several times. (on page 41).

The wording is very interesting indeed and very carefully written I think.

A phrase that is often used on here is 'read between the lines'.

I'm just wondering whether we do need to read between the lines here. Or am I talking / thinking mumbo jumbo as I've had 4 coffees today.
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Châtelaine on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 2:40 pm

Not really, Andrew. Do read between the lines :-)
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Andrew on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 2:45 pm

Châtelaine wrote:Not really, Andrew. Do read between the lines :-)

So would you say we need to 'read between the lines' on this particular statement then, C....?
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  froggy on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 4:10 pm

Have SYP essentially concluded this case or are we likely to hear more from them ?
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Châtelaine on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 6:54 pm

Andrew wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:Not really, Andrew. Do read between the lines :-)

So would you say we need to 'read between the lines' on this particular statement then, C....?
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Andrew on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 10:38 pm

froggy wrote:Have SYP essentially concluded this  case or are we likely to hear more from them ?

Well according to the last paragraph of their statement.....

“We remain committed to the investigation and it will not simply close; myself and Detective Superintendent Matt Fenwick will retain ownership of it and if new information comes to light, we will investigate it thoroughly. We will not stop in our quest to find further answers for Ben’s family.”
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Bampots on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 10:40 pm

Fantastic we look forward to some real closure for Kerry and family!

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Helenmeg on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 10:44 pm

Even if it were Ben's toy car - toddlers of that age pick up and drop things pretty easily - he could have discarded it at any time.

If I were Ben's family then I would also remain hopeful until something proved otherwise. Really feel for them going through this - but
step by step they hopefully will get to the truth
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Andrew on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 10:58 pm

... It could be argued that some of Ben's family actually know the truth.

Just saying.....
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Freedom on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 7:04 am

I don't see how some of them can possibly be unaware of what happened but - IF that's the case - I don't know how they have kept up the pretence for so long.

Let's ignore any more recent disappearances where the same thing applies!
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  chrissie on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 10:26 am

Is Ben Needham still out there, even after police dig up his toy car?

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/crime/is-ben-needham-still-out-there-even-after-police-dig-up-his-toy-car-1-8184046

From the article:

Miss Needham said the family had been given the option of gathering at the farmhouse to mark Ben’s death.


This is the bit I can't get. The police haven't provided any evidence that Ben is dead, it is their professional opinion.
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Andrew on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 10:58 am

Snipped from one of the breaking Mirror articles (before it was named as a toy car)

DI Cousins added that when he showed the item to Ben's family "the reaction I got from them leads me to believe it was taken on or around the day he disappeared)".


I find this interesting about the reaction bit.......

And then a couple of days later, we have the 'not certain it was Ben's toy car' etc coming out.....

(Probably watched too many true crime docs)




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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  chirpyinsect on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 2:23 pm

In another place ChippyM seems to think that there is only one way Ben's car could have ended up in the rubble but surely, had he dropped it then work commenced on that spot it could have been picked up by the digger.Ben did not need to be holding it.
Then thinking about if the digger was working whilst Ben was out of sight of the grandparents, would they not have asked Dino if he had seen the child? They obviously didn't foresee the danger but surely they would have considered it after he was found missing.
Does anyone recall anyone saying Dino was asked. I know he helped the police but I'm thinking of Eddie or Christine. They say it was only a few minutes that he was gone so even if an accident happened, how would Dino have been able to conceal his body so quickly?
I rarely agree with TB but I reckon he is right to be suspicious of this story.
I still feel Stephen knows more. I wonder how well he knew the friend of Dino.

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Andrew on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 3:19 pm

I'm intrigued to know whether any of Dino's machinery was used in the afternoon at all... Without his knowledge and when he wasn't there....
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  froggy on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 3:27 pm

Andrew wrote:I'm intrigued to know whether any of Dino's machinery was used in the afternoon at all... Without his knowledge and when he wasn't there....


It's a possibility. Apparently these types of vehicle had a universal ignition key, so starting one up illicitly may not be difficult.
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  TheTruthWillOut on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 3:49 pm

Andrew wrote:I'm intrigued to know whether any of Dino's machinery was used in the afternoon at all... Without his knowledge and when he wasn't there....

That line in the SYP press release does say 'machinery, including a digger' so that right there gives rise to the possibility that an accident could have happened with another piece of equipment and/or person.

We don't even know what digger was there that day. The Mirror claim it was the behemoth Leibherr 952 they tracked down which weighs 46 tonnes and has a top speed of 5km/h or 3.5MPH i.e. it crawls along very slowly and it swivels in place. A JCB 3cx (SYP specifically mentioned a JCB) on the other hand weighs 8 tonnes and can go 38KM/H or 23MPH. If there was more than one machine there that day again questions are raised why Dino is getting the blame.

I have a question about DI Cousins/SYP. Has he, or anyone for SYP, stated on record/video they believe Dino is responsible? Quoted in a article or on a video briefing?

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Bampots on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 4:05 pm

Andrew wrote:South Yorkshire Police
51 mins ·
UPDATE: Operation Ben excavation work in Kos draws to a close

On 24 July 1991, 21-month-old Ben Needham disappeared from a farmhouse in the Iraklis area of Kos, Greece.

Since that day, a worldwide and very complex investigation has taken place and South Yorkshire Police have been supporting Ben’s family in their search for answers.

This work has intensified in the last 19 months when a Home Office funded team was dedicated to Operation Ben, resulting in a three-week search of two sites on the island.

The searches have been targeted, and of the highest forensic integrity. After 3,600 hours of work physically digging and 1,200 tonnes of material sifted, this phase of the operation has now ended. The team will soon return to the UK, along with some of the items recovered during the search.

Detective Inspector Jon Cousins, the Senior Investigating Officer in Operation Ben, said: “During the course of the enquiries we have made over the last 19 months, we have closed off a large number of theories about what happened to Ben, many of which have been open for over 20 years.

“However, based on the information that I have now, as a result of an extensive and thorough investigation, it is without doubt that the current line of enquiry is the most probable cause for Ben’s disappearance.

“My team and I know that machinery, including a large digger, was used to clear an area of land on 24 July 1991, behind the farmhouse that was being renovated by the Needham’s. It is my professional belief that Ben Needham died as a result of an accident near to the farmhouse in Iraklis where he was last seen playing.

“The events leading up to and following that incident have been explored by my team of experts to great lengths. The fact that we have not had a direct result during this visit to Kos does not preclude the facts that we know to be true.

“An item found on Saturday, which I have shown personally to some of Ben’s family, was found in one of the targeted areas at the second site, very close to a dated item from 1991.

“It is our initial understanding that this item was in Ben’s possession around the time he went missing.

“The recovery of this item, and its location, further adds to my belief that material was removed from the farmhouse on or shortly after the day that Ben disappeared.

“Ben’s family have been provided with a full and thorough account of the events which we know to have taken place and also the speculations that we have been able to discount. Our thoughts are with the family as they are given time to digest this and they have our full and continued support.

“Our drive has always been the family, and their welfare. Ben's family have never given up on the team and I am incredibly thankful for their constant inspiration.

“We are also grateful to the current Greek authorities for their assistance, and the help received from the Home Office and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office has been vital in allowing the team to continue getting answers for a family in need.

“We remain committed to the investigation and it will not simply close; myself and Detective Superintendent Matt Fenwick will retain ownership of it and if new information comes to light, we will investigate it thoroughly. We will not stop in our quest to find further answers for Ben’s family.”

From the above they say.......

The events leading up to and following that incident have been explored by my team of experts to great lengths. The fact that we have not had a direct result during this visit to Kos does not preclude the facts that we know to be true.......


He does make that statement above ending with......we know to be true... so what is it they know!?

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  chirpyinsect on Wed 19 Oct 2016, 4:09 pm

An item found on Saturday, which I have shown personally to some of Ben’s family, was found in one of the targeted areas at the second site, very close to a dated item from 1991.

Wonder what the dated item could be.

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