Terrible accidents

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Re: Terrible accidents

Post  Andrew on Wed 09 Nov 2016, 10:08 pm

bluebell wrote:
Andrew wrote:Sadly 7 have now died.

Apparently it's looking like the driver fell asleep.


Be surprising if he fell asleep, I think there is only a couple of minutes between the stops.   Don't trams have 'dead man's pedals/handles' like they have on trains?

That's what I thought.

I just heard one report mentioning that he fell asleep, but here it suggests a blackout.

Some passengers said the driver of the vehicle, who was arrested afterwards, had blacked out.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/nov/09/croydon-tram-crash-kills-at-least-seven-and-injures-more-than-50
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Re: Terrible accidents

Post  unreorganised on Fri 11 Nov 2016, 9:40 am

Some ghastly details emerging now about the fates of some of those involved. As I said on the Ben Needham thread, a relative was involved in the aftermath of something similar and much of what they related shocked me, and I thought I was unshockable.
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Re: Terrible accidents

Post  Freedom on Fri 11 Nov 2016, 11:17 am

It's taking a long time to identify all the victims so there must be some terrible injuries there.
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Re: Terrible accidents

Post  Andrew on Fri 11 Nov 2016, 11:30 am

Police have warned that identifying all the victims of the crash may be a "complex and lengthy process".

It must've been horrific. But when you look at the actual pictures it doesn't look that bad. Well it does but it's not like it's been engulfed in flames etc which would make the identifying process very difficult.

I've not seen any mention of how fast this tram was going? The handful of times I've been on a tram it's been literally going about 20 mph maximum. If that.
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Re: Terrible accidents

Post  Freedom on Fri 11 Nov 2016, 11:34 am

I have read comments that it seemed to be going very fast.

That's what I thought about the state of the wreckage - no fire damage which would cause problems with identification.

Sorry if this is a bit gruesome but I always recall hearing that there was found to be one less victim of the Bradford City fire than expected as what was thought to be a body turned out to be a burnt piece of plastic.

What must the real bodies have been like.

P.S. Just found this quote about the speed.

Investigators say the tram was travelling at a "significantly higher speed than is permitted" when it came off the rails on a sharp, left-hand curve - and are examining whether the driver had fallen asleep.
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Re: Terrible accidents

Post  unreorganised on Fri 11 Nov 2016, 12:20 pm

Well I was going to try to be delicate. But I can't so I'll just spell it out. In the accident I was referring to, the entire physical being of a person was reduced to, effectively, a smear on the concrete. The only way the emergency services could initially ascertain the number of victims was by quickly obtained CCTV footage. Once it was apparent that nothing could be done the vehicle involved was left in situ until it could be removed under cover of darkness.

I had all this in mind during the recent Kos digs. If SYP genuinely believed that Ben had been run over by a heavy vehicle then I'm not sure what they were realistically hoping to find.
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Re: Terrible accidents

Post  Andrew on Fri 11 Nov 2016, 2:44 pm

That sounds horrible. Stuff of nightmares. How awful.

Some latest from the beeb.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37947408
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Re: Terrible accidents

Post  Andrew on Sat 12 Nov 2016, 5:57 pm

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/spirit-mum-who-died-weeks-9246367

A Croydon tram crash survivor says his dead mother's spirit saved his life - after she guided him to a different seat on the doomed vehicle.
Tony Moore, 49, said mum Doreen, who died six weeks before the disaster , was "looking down on him" when he changed his mind and sat in a different place to the one he normally takes on his morning commute.
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Re: Terrible accidents

Post  Mimi on Sat 12 Nov 2016, 9:08 pm

Can someone tell me if this was a train that runs on tracks or a trolley bus that runs on overhead cables or a bus that has a single track down a roadway? Exactly what is a tram?

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Re: Terrible accidents

Post  Freedom on Sat 12 Nov 2016, 9:14 pm

From the pictures I've seen, it looks like a train on tracks to me - similar to those on the Docklands Light Railway.
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Re: Terrible accidents

Post  Andrew on Sat 12 Nov 2016, 9:45 pm

Mimi - The tram that was in the accident and a similar one.






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Re: Terrible accidents

Post  Mimi on Sat 12 Nov 2016, 10:36 pm

Yeah I saw those but the first one is of a train on railway tracks and the second one is of a bus on tracks that goes through roads where pedestrians are - so are there indented railway tracks on roads and how come cyclists don`t get their wheels stuck in them.

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Re: Terrible accidents

Post  Andrew on Sat 12 Nov 2016, 10:46 pm

Same thing. The tracks are only different in built up areas (city ctr). And for obvious reasons they go a lot slower then.

But the trams goes on both type of tracks. It is slightly different to a proper rail/train track but very similar.
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Re: Terrible accidents

Post  Mimi on Sat 12 Nov 2016, 11:17 pm

Thanks Andrew

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Re: Terrible accidents

Post  Andrew on Sun 13 Nov 2016, 12:28 am

I might be totally wrong. Just going off my personal experiences with the tram system. Which is not a lot at all.
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Re: Terrible accidents

Post  Freedom on Sun 13 Nov 2016, 11:58 am

How dreadful if this turns out to be the true cause of the accident. As with the lorry driver who wiped out a family, I don't know how the tram driver will be able to live with what he's done.

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Re: Terrible accidents

Post  bluebell on Sun 13 Nov 2016, 3:49 pm

This was in the news a few days ago. It has similarities, but of course no confirmation about the cause of the Croydon crash yet.


Rail controller who caused German train crash that claimed 12 lives admits he was not paying attention because he was playing ‘Dungeon Hunter 5’ on his phone
The rail worker, named only as Michael P, is charged with 12 counts of negligent homicide and 89 counts of causing bodily harm
He was playing on his phone shortly before the February 9 crash in Bad Aibling
The 40-year-old was responsible for controlling signals which allowed both trains onto the same stretch of track
Two packed commuter trains crashed head-on at around 60mph


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3923940/

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Re: Terrible accidents

Post  Freedom on Wed 16 Nov 2016, 2:22 pm

There seems no doubt that the tram was going too fast.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38003934#"
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Re: Terrible accidents

Post  Andrew on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 9:47 pm

Catching up on this one as well.

Latest:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/croydon-trams-back-up-running-9287768

No mention of the driver. Assume he will be prosecuted over it (although was it established what actually happened - apart from going 3 x the speed limit - but last I heard, he either fell asleep, blacked out or playing on phone - depending on where you read)
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Re: Terrible accidents

Post  Andrew on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 1:27 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/19/probe-launched-as-video-shows-tram-driver-asleep-at-controls-on/

An investigation has been launched after footage emerged appearing to show a tram driver asleep at the controls on the same line where a crash killed seven people.

A concerned passenger filmed the 32-second clip as the driver struggled to stay upright around three miles from the derailment in Croydon, south London, The Sun reported.

Sadiq Khan, the Mayor of London, said he was "extremely concerned" by the video and he has called for a full investigation.

The footage was filmed between the Coombe Lane and Gravel Hill stations shortly after 6pm on April 21, according to the newspaper.

The person who recorded the film told the newspaper: "It was the most surreal thing because the tram is zooming along and the driver seems to be falling asleep.
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Re: Terrible accidents

Post  unreorganised on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 5:34 pm

Andrew wrote:
[i]An investigation has been launched after footage emerged appearing to show a tram driver asleep at the controls on the same line where a crash killed seven people.

I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often really.

A few years ago I was having trouble nodding off, a friend suggested I try watching this.



I think I was putting out zzz's after about ten minutes.
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Re: Terrible accidents

Post  Andrew on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 6:31 pm

I shouldn't actually laugh on this particular topic but that last post made me chuckle.

I got about 2 mins in and could feel the eyes starting to close.

Likewise if I ever have problems with insomnia then I now know exactly what to do.
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Re: Terrible accidents

Post  Andrew on Fri 25 Nov 2016, 8:13 pm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3972402/Croydon-crash-victims-saved-tram-shatterproof-glass.html

Controversial glass may have been the cause of more fatalities in the Croydon Tram Crash, according to investigators.

The Rail Accident Investigation Branch (RAIB), one of several agencies investigating the cause of the disaster, is thought to be exploring whether lives could have been saved if the tram had been fitted with shatterproof safety glass.

The crash, on November 9, left seven people dead and more than 50 injured, and an interim report published last week found the tram was travelling at 43.5mph - more than three times the speed limit - before it derailed.

Passengers suffered horrific injuries after being showered with glass during the collision.

Some were hurled from the vehicle by the force of the collision while others were left trapped under the frame of the tram.
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Re: Terrible accidents

Post  bluebell on Fri 25 Nov 2016, 8:27 pm

Difficult one that.   Is it preferable to have the windows break and be able to escape or avoid the injuries from broken glass ?

What sort of glass are cars provided with?   What sort of glass is allowed in domestic doors?  Anyone know?

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