The price of a Twitter "insult"

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Re: The price of a Twitter "insult"

Post  candyfloss on Fri 10 Mar 2017, 3:32 pm

Katie Hopkins has lost her libel case to the food blogger Jack Monroe, and has to pay £24,000.


https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/mar/10/jack-monroe-wins-twitter-libel-case-against-katie-hopkins

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The price of a Twitter "insult"

Post  espeland on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 1:08 am

She'll have to pay much more than £24K:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/katie-hopkinsdefeated-by-jack-monroe-in-libel-case_uk_58c28bf5e4b054a0ea69df05?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D-1873705785_uk

ack Monroe has won £24,000 damages in a High Court libel action against MailOnline columnist Katie Hopkins.

Monroe, a food blogger who also campaigns over poverty issues, sued Hopkins over tweets they said caused “serious harm” to their reputation.

After Mr Justice Warby announced his findings on Friday afternoon, Monroe who identifies outside the binary construct of gender and prefers the gender-neutral pronoun ‘they’ and title ‘Mx’, tweeted of their relief.

They wrote: “It’s taken 21 months but today the High Court ruled that Hopkins statements to/about me were defamatory.

“I sued her for libel, and I won...To everyone who told me I couldn’t, wouldn’t, shouldn’t - I could, I would, I did.”

The judge also ordered Hopkins to pay an initial £107,000 towards Monroe’s legal costs within 28 days. The final costs figure has yet to be assessed, but some legal experts put it above £300,000.

He ruled the tweets had caused Monroe “real and substantial distress” and she was entitled to “fair and reasonable compensation.”

Monroe, who did attend the hearing, asked the London court to find that they had been “defamed” by the former Apprentice contestant.

At the heart of the action is a posting on Twitter in May 2015.

Monroe says the tweet meant they had either vandalised a war memorial, and “thereby desecrated the memory of those who fought for their freedom and had committed a criminal act”, or that they “condoned or approved” of the criminal vandalisation of a war memorial.
PA
Jack Monroe leaving the High Court in central London

Hopkins, who didn’t attend Friday’s hearing, posted: “@MsJackMonroe scrawled on any memorials recently? Vandalised the memory of those who fought for your freedom. Grandma got any more medals?”

Monroe responded almost immediately: “I have NEVER ‘scrawled on a memorial’. Brother in the RAF. Dad was a Para in the Falklands. You’re a piece of shit.”

A Twitter debate had earlier erupted after a memorial to the women of the Second World War in Whitehall was daubed with the words “Fuck Tory scum” during an anti-austerity demonstration.

Monroe, 28, from Leigh-on-Sea, Essex, also claimed that a second tweet by Hopkins bore a “defamatory innuendo meaning” that they “approved or condoned the criminal vandalisation of the women’s war memorial in Whitehall during an anti-government protest”.

Their lawyer William Bennett told the judge: “The claimant’s primary case is that by reason of the seriousness of the allegations and the scale of publication, serious harm to reputation has been caused.

“A widely published allegation that someone has either vandalised a war memorial or approved of such an act will inevitably cause serious damage to reputation.”

Mr Bennett said “the libel was a particular affront... because part of their identity is as a member of a family closely involved with the armed forces”.
Related...

   Jack Monroe Has Begun Libel Proceedings Against Katie Hopkins For ‘Harmful Tweets’
   ‘Forgive Katie Hopkins She May Become A Better Human Being’ Say Muslim Family Who Won Apology

Even after Hopkins deleted the first tweet, “she did not apologise or retract the allegation even though she knew it was false”, he said.

Jonathan Price, for Hopkins, told the judge her case was that “this relatively trivial dispute arose and was resolved on Twitter in a period of several hours”.

He argued that “no lasting harm, and certainly no serious harm”, to Monroe’s reputation resulted from it.

The row erupted after a memorial to the women of the Second World War in Whitehall was daubed with the words ‘Fuck Tory scum’ during an anti-austerity demonstration

Mr Price said her case was that “these proceedings are an unnecessary and disproportionate epilogue to the parties’ otherwise forgotten Twitter row”.

Hopkins had “mistakenly” used Monroe’s Twitter handle instead of that of another columnist who had tweeted about the memorial incident.

Monroe told the court: “These proceedings have been a nightmare. It has been an 18-month, unproductive, devastating nightmare.

“I have offered several times through my lawyer to settle these proceedings outside court. This is the last thing that I wanted to be doing.”
PA
Monroe pictured arriving at the High Court in central London on Friday

Monroe’s lawyer, Mark Lewis, a partner at Seddons Solicitors said: “Jack Monroe has finally been vindicated in full from the libellous and wholly false accusation by Katie Hopkins that she had supported the vandalisation of a war memorial. Jack Monroe never did, and coming from a proud military family, never would.

“Despite pointing this out to Katie Hopkins within minutes of her first tweet wrongly accusing Jack, Hopkins did not apologise. Rather the self-styled ‘rent-a-gob’ defiantly posted another defamatory tweet. Despite repeated opportunities to back down, Hopkins obstinately refused to apologise, instead conducting her defence by slinging as much mud as she could to hide the fact that she had made this false allegation.

“The price of not saying sorry has been very high. Hopkins has had to pay out of her own pocket a six figure sum in damages and costs for a tweet that should have been deleted within minutes as soon as she was told it was wrong. On this occasion, the cost of renting that gob was particularly high.

“Hopkins claimed that Twitter was just the wild west where anything goes. The Judge has shown that there is no such thing as a Twitter outlaw.”
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Re: The price of a Twitter "insult"

Post  Freedom on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 8:32 am

I've transferred the previous two posts form the Katie Hopkins topic as I think that they merit their own one.

Considering the absolutely vile things that are said on Twitter, this seems to be a very disproportionate punishment for what was actually said.

I'd never even heard of Jack Monroe until this incident so Katie's comments certainly didn't damage their (as JM likes to be called instead of her) reputation in my eyes.

The words teacup and storm spring to mind.

Changing the subject, the advert on the top here refers to a play and book called Amelie and this is the blurb about it!

Amelie, is born to dysfunctional parents. As she grows up, she feels distant from her family. Later, she is misdiagnosed with a heart disease by her father. Her parents get paranoid and eventually isolate her, cutting all her connections with the outside world.

The rest of the journey is about Amelie's realizations and findings about what life is all about after she manages to move to Paris.

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Re: The price of a Twitter "insult"

Post  canada12 on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 9:03 am

Sounds like the play is based on the much earlier film Amelie, from 2001 - which is French and stars Audrey Tautou. It's a fabulous film, by the way - I've seen it a few times. I've often wondered if Kate and Gerry named their Amelie after the character in this film. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Am%C3%A9lie
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Re: The price of a Twitter "insult"

Post  Freedom on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 9:44 am

http://news.sky.com/story/katie-hopkins-i-see-myself-as-the-jesus-of-the-outspoken-10797580

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/131000-katie-hopkins-realise-trolling-twitter-expensive-hobby/

Katie will have upset a few more people with the image of herself as the Virgin Mary!

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Re: The price of a Twitter "insult"

Post  Antonia on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 10:10 am

Like Freedom I had never heard of Jack Monroe.

I looked her up on Wikipedia and it seems she (I refuse to use 'their' which is what she apparently prefers as it is not proper English and makes the meaning unclear) is one of an increasing no of mixed up people who people pander to, instead of saying nicely, get some help.

She became 'famous' for a food blog on living on very little as a single parent on a food budget of €10 pw. Now Wikipedia says she had a baby after a relationship with a close male friend. Now why wasn't he chipping in with some food money - he probably was but that would have spoilt her image!

She seems very confused about her sexuality yet now uses a very male macho name Jack. Why not a name that can be either sex?

Katie Hopkins has made useful comments on the McCanns. After this libel award against her, she and the papers who pay her will now be over cautious on anything she writes; a pity that tweets about an irrelevant food blogger may affect the british public learning more about the facts in Maddie's disappearance.
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Re: The price of a Twitter "insult"

Post  espeland on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 10:18 am

The mind boggles, Freedom!

This may seem like a storm in a teacup - and there are without question many, many worse tweets out there, but this may make tweeters realize they can't say whatever they want in our society - and Katie-Hopkins must be regarded as one of the more generally-known vociferous exponents.

I'm not sure that Antonia is correct in suggesting Katie will stop writing about the McCanns: if they were to bring a libel case, they would have to appear in court and be cross-examined if they were to have any hope of being successful. I can't see that happening.
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Re: The price of a Twitter "insult"

Post  unreorganised on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 10:23 am

What a depressing microcosm of 21st century life.
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Re: The price of a Twitter "insult"

Post  Freedom on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 10:43 am

Katie doesn't seem to have resolved to lead a quiet life from now on - judging by that Virgin Mary picture - so I don't think that we've heard the last of her!

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Re: The price of a Twitter "insult"

Post  unreorganised on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 10:48 am

Freedom wrote:Katie doesn't seem to have resolved to lead a quiet life from now on - judging by that Virgin Mary picture - so I don't think that we've heard the last of her!

I'm trying to work out who she reminds me of in that picture. Can't put my finger on who it is exactly, but it's definitely a bloke....
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Re: The price of a Twitter "insult"

Post  candyfloss on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 10:49 am

Freedom wrote:Katie doesn't seem to have resolved to lead a quiet life from now on - judging by that Virgin Mary picture - so I don't think that we've heard the last of her!

Hopefully not.  She can't have been too bothered, she didn't even attend court.



How depressing is it that you cannot speak anymore, everything has to be politically correct, no one is allowed to voice their strong opinions.  What the hell constitutes an 'upsetting' tweet, is calling someone' a cow' upsetting, is calling someone a liar in anger upsetting - yes it is and there is some awful stuff out there, but where do you draw the line.  Admittedly KT's tweet was below the belt, but you either battle it out or you ignore, just like you would playground bullies, this suing people is totally ridiculous, aimed at making the lawyers money and shutting down free speech....   I fear where all this is going.

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Re: The price of a Twitter "insult"

Post  unreorganised on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 10:55 am

I've got it now. It's Brad Pitt when he had long hair.
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Re: The price of a Twitter "insult"

Post  Mimi on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 11:37 am

I reckon this will certainly increase Katie`s popularity when you take a look at that `Jack` character.

The `Jack` person and reminds me of the ugly feminists marching against Donald Trump. No doubt Jack`s reputation will go up in that community.

I find Katie Hopkins funny and articulate - she says what I and many others are thinking in a way that gives impact. She has a marvelous way with words, but this time made the mistake of getting two people muddled up and unfortunately it was a `Jack` person with loads of tattoos, wacky hair, a desire for fame and part of `that` community who just love to shout and protest about anything and everything.



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Re: The price of a Twitter "insult"

Post  Freedom on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 12:37 pm

It's a pity that she didn't apologise for her mistake as this should have stopped the matter from going any further.

It's ridiculous though that something as comparatively trivial as this can be deemed to be worth thousands of pounds in compensation.

I know all about the militant feminists, Mimi. My son has a real bee in his bonnet about them at the moment. I have had to reassure him that I don't in any way support them!

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Re: The price of a Twitter "insult"

Post  froggy on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 12:49 pm

Freedom wrote:It's a pity that she didn't apologise for her mistake as this should have stopped the matter from going any further.

It's ridiculous though that something as comparatively trivial as this can be deemed to be worth thousands of pounds in compensation.

I know all about the militant feminists, Mimi. My son has a real bee in his bonnet about them at the moment. I have had to reassure him that I don't in any way support them!


I suspect that Hopkin's ego prevented an apology.
The compensation is fairly trivial. It's the legal fees that are the killer.
As the loser, Hopkins quite rightly a has to pay these.
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Re: The price of a Twitter "insult"

Post  espeland on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 1:01 pm

but this time made the mistake of getting two people muddled up

She made an even bigger mistake in not apologizing. She won't be able to afford to do that too many times. If someone, no matter who, or company 'suffers' from an untrue statement then s/he/it has every right to pursue and collect correction and 'damages': Mimi and Candyfloss, can't you imagine any situation where an untruth was said about you that you would pursue to correct - for example, someone posted publicly in a newspaper that you had a well-known sexual deviancy appalling to most people? (and I'm most certainly NOT suggesting you have! Mad )

And I don't accept that a new century or technology means that previously-accepted principles should automatically be discarded: The advent of the internet and Twitter are no more important than the advent of the printing press or radio and television.

I do of course hope that Katie continues her campaign against the McCanns - after all she cant libel them for something they've done, can she.
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Re: The price of a Twitter "insult"

Post  chirpyinsect on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 1:38 pm

Mimi wrote:I reckon this will certainly increase Katie`s popularity when you take a look at that `Jack` character.

The `Jack` person and reminds me of the ugly feminists marching against Donald Trump.  No doubt Jack`s reputation will go up in that community.

I find Katie Hopkins funny and articulate - she says what I and many others are thinking in a way that gives impact.  She has a marvelous way with words, but this time made the mistake of getting two people muddled up and unfortunately it was a `Jack` person with loads of tattoos, wacky hair, a desire for fame and part of `that` community who just love to shout and protest about anything and everything.



Was everyone marching "ugly" Mimi? Bit of a sweeping generalisation. And judging Jack by his appearance is very judgemental.
We have all been quick to condemn a certain guy from Harlow who got the wrong person and rightly critical of the harm done to his reputation, yet Katie H who is only outspoken because she makes a living from it should be allowed to get away with it.
The law is there to protect people from spurious allegations whether we agree on the level of damages or not. Free speech yes but with it comes a responsibility to be truthful and accurate.

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Re: The price of a Twitter "insult"

Post  candyfloss on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 2:03 pm

Yes, but how can you define 'substantial harm' - it depends where it is read, how many people and whether they believe it anyway.

Here is a guide to twitter users......

Twitter users: A guide to the law

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20782257

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Re: The price of a Twitter "insult"

Post  Mimi on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 3:52 pm

chirpyinsect wrote:
Mimi wrote:I reckon this will certainly increase Katie`s popularity when you take a look at that `Jack` character.

The `Jack` person and reminds me of the ugly feminists marching against Donald Trump.  No doubt Jack`s reputation will go up in that community.

I find Katie Hopkins funny and articulate - she says what I and many others are thinking in a way that gives impact.  She has a marvelous way with words, but this time made the mistake of getting two people muddled up and unfortunately it was a `Jack` person with loads of tattoos, wacky hair, a desire for fame and part of `that` community who just love to shout and protest about anything and everything.



Was everyone marching "ugly" Mimi? Bit of a sweeping generalisation. And judging Jack by his appearance is very judgemental.
We have all been quick to condemn a certain guy from Harlow who got the wrong person and rightly critical of the harm done to his reputation, yet Katie H who is only outspoken because she makes a living from it should be allowed to get away with it.
The law is there to protect people from spurious allegations whether we agree on the level of damages or not. Free speech yes but with it comes a responsibility to be truthful and accurate.

I meant ugly in personality - there were probably nicer ones amongst them. See the very ugly Ashley Judd :-



To survive in life one has to make judgements - nothing wrong in that. Nothing wrong in being able to discriminate - it is essential for survival and indicates what to steer clear of.

But I agree Katie Hopkins went over the top in calling someone a social anthrax.


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