GRANGE UPDATE - AC Mark Rowley reflects on the tenth anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann plus Martin Brunt on Sky

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Re: GRANGE UPDATE - AC Mark Rowley reflects on the tenth anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann plus Martin Brunt on Sky

Post  Poe on Wed 26 Apr 2017, 8:50 am

What's_up_doc? wrote:
canada12 wrote:
What's_up_doc? wrote:Maybe this is just wishful thinking but could it be 'no reason to suspect parents' could be a semantic thing, because they are not finished yet or perhaps their task is to eliminate other hypotheses and PJ work on the remaining viable one? Presumably, if and when they have reason to suspect them, they would be declared arguidos again and it would be a disaster if that happened prematurely, like last time. There does seem to be a more sober tone and I can't imagine the PJ having any truck with yet more shenanigans, so it's not quite a lost cause is it?

I feel the same way, and I also agree with the idea that they really can't come out and state that the parents are suspects if they don't have the hard evidence to back it up. To do so would be to invite all kinds of trouble, including the possibility of having any eventual court case thrown out on technicalities. I agree that they need to have ironclad evidence to make their case. The crime took place in Portugal, therefore the jurisdiction is in Portugal and it would be Portugal where a court case would take place. If there's a court case in Portugal and it can be proved that the McCanns knew their daughter was dead, I think a very good case of fraud re: the Madeleine Fund could be brought against them in the UK. But other than that, I'm not sure that SY or OG have the power to do anything about a crime that occurred in Portugal, other than to assist the Portuguese police in whatever way they can -- and we really don't know how much that has entailed to this point.
I'm glad other people feel the same - I was thinking ( cos I can't sleep, I'm too wound up) even if an abduction was staged, then that is still an abduction, sort of. We tend to think of an abduction as involving resistance but even if all there was was a staged abduction, it wouldn't be wrong author this stage to say there had been an abduction...of sorts. Night night.

I'm just catching up on last night's events.

To be nitpicky he said there was no reason to suspect the parents - past not present tense. Perhaps there is reason now.

I think the Met was forced into giving this statement by all the speculation surrounding the 10th anniversary and the way the McCann media machine has been wheeling out their "experts" with their outlandish theories.

He has cleverly removed possible suspects for the McCanns to use in their campaign without pointing a finger at the McCanns themselves.

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Re: GRANGE UPDATE - AC Mark Rowley reflects on the tenth anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann plus Martin Brunt on Sky

Post  Bampots on Wed 26 Apr 2017, 8:54 am

unreorganised wrote:I think people are doing well to read something into the words of a man who said nothing.

Why did they even bother making a statement? And why now? The anniversary is next week.
According to Kate(and i read the statements as Kates words!)we can expect a flurry of programmes and articles and some stormy times ahead for them....she earlier said she wanted an outcome whatever it was. With that in mind i expect some kind of resolution in the next few weeks .....even if that is the Ben Needham option of "we know but cant prove" and of course the Portugese have said they will continue whatever SY decide to do.....so interesting weeks ahead and we should all be watching OG and how they decide to play this ...it is not over till the fat lady sings!    (Cue image!!)

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Re: GRANGE UPDATE - AC Mark Rowley reflects on the tenth anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann plus Martin Brunt on Sky

Post  Andrew on Wed 26 Apr 2017, 9:27 am

Bampots wrote:
unreorganised wrote:I think people are doing well to read something into the words of a man who said nothing.

Why did they even bother making a statement? And why now? The anniversary is next week.
According to Kate(and i read the statements as Kates words!)we can expect a flurry of programmes and articles and some stormy times ahead for them....she earlier said she wanted an outcome whatever it was. With that in mind i expect some kind of resolution in the next few weeks .....even if that is the Ben Needham option of "we know but cant prove" and of course the Portugese have said they will continue whatever SY decide to do.....so interesting weeks ahead and we should all be watching OG and how they decide to play this ...it is not over till the fat lady sings!    (Cue image!!)

.. especially when the fat lady is Portuguese!

I'm actually feeling a lot more optimistic than I did about 10 hours ago. Very Happy
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Re: GRANGE UPDATE - AC Mark Rowley reflects on the tenth anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann plus Martin Brunt on Sky

Post  froggy on Wed 26 Apr 2017, 9:30 am


If this clue is so critical to the investigation, why was it not followed up years ago? Do they really believe it will solve the case, or Is this lead critical only because it is the last one, after which they will have to admit defeat and throw in the towel ?
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Re: GRANGE UPDATE - AC Mark Rowley reflects on the tenth anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann plus Martin Brunt on Sky

Post  What's_up_doc? on Wed 26 Apr 2017, 9:32 am

Poe wrote:
What's_up_doc? wrote:
canada12 wrote:
What's_up_doc? wrote:Maybe this is just wishful thinking but could it be 'no reason to suspect parents' could be a semantic thing, because they are not finished yet or perhaps their task is to eliminate other hypotheses and PJ work on the remaining viable one? Presumably, if and when they have reason to suspect them, they would be declared arguidos again and it would be a disaster if that happened prematurely, like last time. There does seem to be a more sober tone and I can't imagine the PJ having any truck with yet more shenanigans, so it's not quite a lost cause is it?

I feel the same way, and I also agree with the idea that they really can't come out and state that the parents are suspects if they don't have the hard evidence to back it up. To do so would be to invite all kinds of trouble, including the possibility of having any eventual court case thrown out on technicalities. I agree that they need to have ironclad evidence to make their case. The crime took place in Portugal, therefore the jurisdiction is in Portugal and it would be Portugal where a court case would take place. If there's a court case in Portugal and it can be proved that the McCanns knew their daughter was dead, I think a very good case of fraud re: the Madeleine Fund could be brought against them in the UK. But other than that, I'm not sure that SY or OG have the power to do anything about a crime that occurred in Portugal, other than to assist the Portuguese police in whatever way they can -- and we really don't know how much that has entailed to this point.
I'm glad other people feel the same - I was thinking ( cos I can't sleep, I'm too wound up) even if an abduction was staged, then that is still an abduction, sort of. We tend to think of an abduction as involving resistance but even if all there was was a staged abduction, it wouldn't be wrong author this stage to say there had been an abduction...of sorts. Night night.

I'm just catching up on last night's events.

To be nitpicky he said there was no reason to suspect the parents - past not present tense. Perhaps there is reason now.

I think the Met was forced into giving this statement by all the speculation surrounding the 10th anniversary and the way the McCann media machine has been wheeling out their "experts" with their outlandish theories.

He has cleverly removed possible suspects for the McCanns to use in their campaign without pointing a finger at the McCanns themselves.
I agree Poe - I've only read it twice and not analytically but there are positives in there. He clarifies Andy Redwood's use of the word abduction and he doesn't say the McCanns have been eliminated. I think this interview would be cold comfort for the McCanns and unless he is just adopting a more measures tone for the sake of smoke and mirrors, I don't see it as a cause for concern - but I'm going to go through it properly later.You've got to ask if they've eliminated the bungled burglary (almost), are not signposting the usual suspects, what is left? Like you say, it shuts down the McCann  freak show and undermined their assertion that she is alive, all disquieting for team McCann IMO.


Last edited by What's_up_doc? on Wed 26 Apr 2017, 9:35 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typo)

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Re: GRANGE UPDATE - AC Mark Rowley reflects on the tenth anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann plus Martin Brunt on Sky

Post  Andrew on Wed 26 Apr 2017, 9:35 am

It's critical at the frogster because it's the only one left.

The most obvious one since the beginning (now everything else has been ruled out).

And of course it's very significant indeed.
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Re: GRANGE UPDATE - AC Mark Rowley reflects on the tenth anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann plus Martin Brunt on Sky

Post  Mimi on Wed 26 Apr 2017, 9:36 am

If SY are going to end up saying it was a burglary gone wrong, remember what Eileen McCann said :-

"Mrs McCann, who lives in Scotland and runs a pub, said: “I really believe they (whoever took her) gave her a drug.
“There is no way they carried her out of there without her awakening.
If she was taken when she was sleeping by somebody she did not know, she would have screamed the place down.”


The burglars would have to carry a rag soaked in chloroform to subdue anyone that wakes up during a burglary - are they going to tell us that this is what burglars do ?

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Re: GRANGE UPDATE - AC Mark Rowley reflects on the tenth anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann plus Martin Brunt on Sky

Post  candyfloss on Wed 26 Apr 2017, 9:45 am

Keep the faith, the investigation continues, it could have been closed.

What he says here is very important, read it again - he has taken leads to their conclusion, he has eliminated all the rubbish theories, Grange continues....


snipped from AC Mark Rowley statement...
However the work carried out by Portuguese and Met officers in reviewing material and reopening the investigation has been successful in taking a number of lines of interest to their conclusion. That work has provided important answers.

Right now we are committed to taking the current inquiry as far as we possibly can and we are confident that will happen. Ultimately this, and the previous work, gives all of us the very best chance of getting the answers – although we must, of course, remember that no investigation can guarantee to provide a definitive conclusion.

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Re: GRANGE UPDATE - AC Mark Rowley reflects on the tenth anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann plus Martin Brunt on Sky

Post  Mimi on Wed 26 Apr 2017, 9:46 am

Trying to find positives this morning.

IMO you can use the word `abduction` in the stealing of a dead body. A dead body can be abducted.

Although a spoof, the word abduction was used in this prank :

"CLAIM: A man in California abducted his girlfriend’s corpse from the morgue, took a selfie, and posted it to social media sites"

http://www.snopes.com/info/news/deadselfie.asp

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Re: GRANGE UPDATE - AC Mark Rowley reflects on the tenth anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann plus Martin Brunt on Sky

Post  bluebell on Wed 26 Apr 2017, 9:54 am

Andrew wrote:http://news.sky.com/story/madeleine-mccann-met-police-rules-out-its-four-official-suspects-10850920

Madeleine McCann: Investigators pursuing 'significant' lead
Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley describes the latest part of their investigation as a "critical piece of work".
04:41, UK,
Wednesday 26 April 2017

By Martin Brunt, Crime Correspondent
<snipped>

"Ourselves and the Portuguese are doing a critical piece of work

Portugal's deputy national director of the Policia Judiciaria, Pedro do Carmo, told Sky News that he was under no financial or political pressure to wind up his re-opened investigation.

He said: "If the Metropolitan Police decides to close its investigation that doesn't mean we are going to close ours.

"Our two investigations are not dependent on one another."

:: Watch the documentary Searching For Madeleine on Sky 1 on Tuesday, 2 May at 10pm, and on Sky News on Wednesday, 3 May at 8pm.


From everything else that has been reported, I feel these bolded are the most important words. The PJ have always operated without making statements, but they are still investigating and I think a long time ago I remember some mention of them not releasing all their information to SY. ?
I thought SY were simply investigating the investigation? It may be naive but I am putting my faith and trust in the PJ.

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Re: GRANGE UPDATE - AC Mark Rowley reflects on the tenth anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann plus Martin Brunt on Sky

Post  Andrew on Wed 26 Apr 2017, 9:55 am

There will be a lot of speculation about this bit:

Q: Just to be clear you did not interview the McCanns as potential suspects?

MR: No


Well he's not going to say yes is he. Anyway that will be the PJ's job again when the time is right. (next week)

Take out the 'potential suspects' bit and the answer would be different.

IMO etc.

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Re: GRANGE UPDATE - AC Mark Rowley reflects on the tenth anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann plus Martin Brunt on Sky

Post  Helenmeg on Wed 26 Apr 2017, 9:56 am

Read through everything this morning after going to bed last night feeling extremely down about this whole thing. It seems everyone
here is finding some positives in Rowley's statement and there is no doubt there are some.  For me, it was depressing because he said a lot of
stuff to make the Mc CANN team be able to strut their stuff confidently. He could have said everything that he said  but given it a completely different slant.

Instead of there is no definitive proof that MADELEINE is either dead or alive  - he could have not mentioned that at all.. instead he is promoting the beloief that she could well be alive somewhere.
The dogs smelt death and blood in the apartment behind the sofa...  there is no reason for him to promote belief she is alive..

Anyway, he is just a pawn - actually make that a prawn - because that's what he resembled - and said what he was told to say by the powers that be.


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Re: GRANGE UPDATE - AC Mark Rowley reflects on the tenth anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann plus Martin Brunt on Sky

Post  Mimi on Wed 26 Apr 2017, 10:03 am

Whatever SY say - THEY MUST have the elephant in the room Eddie & Keela evidence. Even though it cannot be used as evidence in the UK it must be staring them in the face everyday all day - THEY MUST KNOW Madeleine is dead.

It has always been the dogs` evidence that has scared the Mcs.

Mark Rowley - "We have no definitive evidence that Madeleine is either alive or dead"

Definitive Meaning - "
supplying or being a final or conclusive settlement; "a definitive verdict"; "a determinate answer to the problem" determinate. conclusive - forming an end or termination; especially putting an end to doubt or question; "conclusive proof"; "the evidence is conclusive"

Therefore they can`t say they have definitive evidence that they can take to the CPS (I`m talking about the CPS only being able to charge them with fraud in the UK).


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Re: GRANGE UPDATE - AC Mark Rowley reflects on the tenth anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann plus Martin Brunt on Sky

Post  Andrew on Wed 26 Apr 2017, 10:05 am

I think this actual titbit is what I'm most encouraged by:

“Ourselves and the Portuguese are doing a critical piece of work and we don’t want to spoil it by putting titbits of information out publicly.”
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Re: GRANGE UPDATE - AC Mark Rowley reflects on the tenth anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann plus Martin Brunt on Sky

Post  candyfloss on Wed 26 Apr 2017, 10:09 am

Look how he describes abduction in the video interview.


He says.... However she left that apartment, she has been abducted....








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Re: GRANGE UPDATE - AC Mark Rowley reflects on the tenth anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann plus Martin Brunt on Sky

Post  Helenmeg on Wed 26 Apr 2017, 10:10 am

Andrew wrote:I think this actual titbit is what I'm most encouraged by:

“Ourselves and the Portuguese are doing a critical piece of work and we don’t want to spoil it by putting titbits of information out publicly.”

Yes - there were definite tasty nuggets in there - just spoilt by some of the other stuff... it disappoints me that the media cretins are able to take what he said and spin it so
positively pro= Mc Cann.

This has always been a rollercoaster and generally we manage to find optimism dont we....to keep going.
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Re: GRANGE UPDATE - AC Mark Rowley reflects on the tenth anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann plus Martin Brunt on Sky

Post  mumof6 on Wed 26 Apr 2017, 10:13 am

Nothing has been said about the Tapas 7.

They seem to be eliminated the various groups of strangers that might have abducted Madeleine.

So, if they are not looking at the McCanns, who else would that leave?


I would also love to know why they released such a bland statement now. I think they embargoed it to allow time for the McCanns 10 year anniversary message to be discussed, then this pile of words, signifying nothing.

Maybe OG is merely preparing the ground for requests for more funding, and now might be the time to slip that request in.

However, that, to me, does not explain the very depressed 10 year anniversary statement, with the plea to think of the twins. There must be something else to explain that, something is about to mix the fertiliser with the ventilation system.
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Re: GRANGE UPDATE - AC Mark Rowley reflects on the tenth anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann plus Martin Brunt on Sky

Post  Helenmeg on Wed 26 Apr 2017, 10:14 am

candyfloss wrote:Look how he describes abduction in the video interview.


He says.... However she left that apartment, she has been abducted....








'at the heart of this has been an abduction'

In other words lets reinforce what the Mc CANNS have said all along - there was an abduction - they wanted us all to believe that and Rowley has reinforced that. He could have
put it differently - he did not need to reinforce ABDUCTION thereby giving valuable ammunition to the team Mc Cann. Why did he feel the need to do that?? It was deliberate.
He could have stuck with 'Missing'.
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Re: GRANGE UPDATE - AC Mark Rowley reflects on the tenth anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann plus Martin Brunt on Sky

Post  Helenmeg on Wed 26 Apr 2017, 10:16 am

mumof6 wrote:Nothing has been said about the Tapas 7.

They seem to be eliminated the various groups of strangers that might have abducted Madeleine.

So, if they are not looking at the McCanns, who else would that leave?


I would also love to know why they released such a bland statement now. I think they embargoed it to allow time for the McCanns 10 year anniversary message to be discussed, then this pile of words, signifying nothing.

Maybe OG is merely preparing the ground for requests for more funding, and now might be the time to slip that request in.

However, that, to me, does not explain the very depressed 10 year anniversary statement, with the plea to think of the twins. There must be something else to explain that, something is about to mix the fertiliser with the ventilation system.

I agree Mum of 6 - there is a reason why the Mc Cann's message sounded fearful - maybe they were afraid of the OG statement and what would be in it. They are probably laughing their socks off now! I just dont know....
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Re: GRANGE UPDATE - AC Mark Rowley reflects on the tenth anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann plus Martin Brunt on Sky

Post  Andrew on Wed 26 Apr 2017, 10:18 am

Helenmeg wrote:
Andrew wrote:I think this actual titbit is what I'm most encouraged by:

“Ourselves and the Portuguese are doing a critical piece of work and we don’t want to spoil it by putting titbits of information out publicly.”

Yes - there were definite tasty nuggets in there - just spoilt by some of the other stuff... it disappoints me that the media cretins are able to take what he said and spin it so
positively pro= Mc Cann.

This has always been a rollercoaster and generally we manage to find optimism dont we....to keep going.

At the end of the day - he was clearly restricted on what he could actually say. And of course even at this stage has to show some degree of balance and be impartial.

And obviously keeping those cards extremely close to the chest at the same time.

Well that's what the Media does and has done for god knows how long. But they'll turn on the Mc's when they know the time is ready.

Agree - we have to keep the optimism. And when I woke up this morning, I just so happened to stumble across a load more. cheers

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Re: GRANGE UPDATE - AC Mark Rowley reflects on the tenth anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann plus Martin Brunt on Sky

Post  candyfloss on Wed 26 Apr 2017, 10:18 am


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Re: GRANGE UPDATE - AC Mark Rowley reflects on the tenth anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann plus Martin Brunt on Sky

Post  Andrew on Wed 26 Apr 2017, 10:21 am

If I was the McCann's, then I would be absolutely bricking it right now. And really be feeling fear.

Just saying.
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Re: GRANGE UPDATE - AC Mark Rowley reflects on the tenth anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann plus Martin Brunt on Sky

Post  candyfloss on Wed 26 Apr 2017, 10:21 am

Helenmeg wrote:
candyfloss wrote:Look how he describes abduction in the video interview.


He says.... However she left that apartment, she has been abducted....








'at the heart of this has been an abduction'

In other words lets reinforce what the Mc CANNS have said all along - there was an abduction - they wanted us all to believe that and Rowley has reinforced that. He could have
put it differently - he did not need to reinforce ABDUCTION thereby giving valuable ammunition to the team Mc Cann. Why did he feel the need to do that?? It was deliberate.
He could have stuck with 'Missing'.  
 

What he is saying is however she left that apartment, she was abducted, and that is correct isn't it?

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Re: GRANGE UPDATE - AC Mark Rowley reflects on the tenth anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann plus Martin Brunt on Sky

Post  Helenmeg on Wed 26 Apr 2017, 10:25 am

I do agree you can argue that it is technically correct in terms of meaning but...... he chose to reinforce 'abduction' in the heads of the general public.
He didn't have to do that - yet he deliberately chose to reinforce that idea in the public mind. Why? He didn't need to - as I said he could have simply said words to the effect of
'Madeline is still missing' -
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Re: GRANGE UPDATE - AC Mark Rowley reflects on the tenth anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann plus Martin Brunt on Sky

Post  froggy on Wed 26 Apr 2017, 10:26 am

Andrew wrote:
Helenmeg wrote:
Andrew wrote:I think this actual titbit is what I'm most encouraged by:

“Ourselves and the Portuguese are doing a critical piece of work and we don’t want to spoil it by putting titbits of information out publicly.”

Yes - there were definite tasty nuggets in there - just spoilt by some of the other stuff... it disappoints me that the media cretins are able to take what he said and spin it so
positively pro= Mc Cann.

This has always been a rollercoaster and generally we manage to find optimism dont we....to keep going.

At the end of the day - he was clearly restricted on what he could actually say. And of course even at this stage has to show some degree of balance and be impartial.

And obviously keeping those cards extremely close to the chest at the same time.

Well that's what the Media does and has done for god knows how long. But they'll turn on the Mc's when they know the time is ready.

Agree - we have to keep the optimism. And when I woke up this morning, I just so happened to stumble across a load more.  cheers


Maybe that's why they used the top man, someone far removed from the actual details of the investigation.
Not a word from Ms Wall, or even her supervisor, both of whom should have been sufficiently senior to deliver such a script of nothingness.
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