OPERATION GRANGE TO CONTINUE - extra funding granted

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE TO CONTINUE - extra funding granted

Post  Heisenburg on Thu 28 Sep 2017, 8:37 pm

Its widely known that the dogs alerted to something in 5a and the hire car,can any one hand on heart say that any thing OG is doing is consistent with and trying to understand the alerts,short answer no,its an abduction as per their remit, simples.
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Re: OPERATION GRANGE TO CONTINUE - extra funding granted

Post  TheTruthWillOut on Thu 28 Sep 2017, 8:41 pm

Heisenburg wrote:Its widely known that the dogs alerted to something in 5a and the hire car,can any one hand on heart say that any thing OG is doing is consistent with and trying to understand the alerts,short answer no,its an abduction as per their remit, simples.

Okay, I do get the cynicism but do you really think they will forever be granted ~£100k plus every six months rather than call it a day? Why?
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Re: OPERATION GRANGE TO CONTINUE - extra funding granted

Post  froggy on Thu 28 Sep 2017, 8:53 pm

While it cannot continue for ever, the longer it goes on the more difficult it is to bring to a conclusion.
We have been told for the past year or so that there is one last lead to follow, one throw of the dice.

From what has been said, the remnants of the team now only have a watching brief and are collating information. To my mind that will not solve anything.
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Re: OPERATION GRANGE TO CONTINUE - extra funding granted

Post  Mimi on Thu 28 Sep 2017, 8:59 pm

Thanks Candyfloss and TTWO.

So giving the suspects a false sense of security then.

So if it`s `wide ranging and complex` there must be people they do not want to upset or maybe the threads leading from MBM are in a massive tangle. Which means it must include many, many more people than just the T9.

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE TO CONTINUE - extra funding granted

Post  poster on Thu 28 Sep 2017, 9:04 pm

froggy wrote:While it cannot continue for ever, the longer it goes on the more difficult it is to bring to a conclusion.
We have been told for the past year or so that there is one last lead to follow, one throw of the dice.

From what has been said, the remnants of the team now only have a watching brief and are collating information. To my mind that will not solve anything.

The Ben Needham case went on for much longer and it wasn't that long ago that police officers went out there again on a jolly to try to find out what happened to Ben.

The problem is, imo, that police know what happened in both cases. And I suspect that they know in both cases that these children were dead by the time the 'abduction' had been declared.
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Re: OPERATION GRANGE TO CONTINUE - extra funding granted

Post  Mimi on Thu 28 Sep 2017, 9:12 pm

It became an proper investigation in summer 2012.

"Update on the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann

News    •   Oct 28, 2015 14:49 GMT

The Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) has today, 28 October announced the new structure and changes to the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

The investigation into what happened to Madeleine continues but with a smaller team of officers. Officers investigating her disappearance have completed the huge task of bringing together and investigating the massive amount of information held by colleagues in Portugal, the United Kingdom investigation and the private investigators working on behalf of the McCann family.

They are now following a small number of focused lines of inquiry that have allowed them to reduce the size of the Home Office funded team.

Detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann in May 2007 have been working through material and following investigative inquiries since the Home Office requested a review of the case in May 2011.

Operation Grange is working to support the Portuguese investigation and this work continues.

While there remain lines of inquiry to follow, the vast majority of the work by Operation Grange has been completed.

This work included reviewing all the material relating to the case which were brought together for the first time and amounted to collating over 40,000 documents from United Kingdom and foreign law enforcement agencies, as well as various private investigation companies.

Officers worked meticulously through the information. Some of the material had to be translated into English, facts had to be cross-referred and diligently analysed to ensure an oversight of what the MPS was examining and to search for new lines of inquiry.

Once this work had been completed the review became a full investigation in July 2012.

The investigation team has taken 1,338 statements and collected 1,027 exhibits. Having reviewed all of the documents, 7,154 actions were raised and 560 lines of enquiry identified, and over thirty international request to countries across the world asking for work to be undertaken on behalf of the Met.

Officers have investigated more than 60 persons of interest. A total of 650 sex offenders have also been considered as well as reports of 8,685 potential sightings of Madeleine around the world.

The Grange team received on average two hundred emails a week, and following the media appeal in October 2013 across three countries, received over 7,000 responses.

For an investigation of this size, the extraordinary circumstances of investigating a missing child four years later in another country, the vast wealth of information and theories, it was always going to be an immense task and required a full team of 29 staff working on it.

With the significant amount of work approaching completion, as with all investigations the MPS has reviewed the staff required to progress the remaining work.

A team of four officers will continue to work solely on the Grange investigation, funded by the Home Office. The enquiry has not reached a conclusion, there are still focused lines of investigation to be pursued.

The officers will continue to be overseen by Detective Chief Inspector Nicola Wall, the current senior investigating officer, and sit within an existing major investigation team on the Homicide and Major Crime Command. This will give them access to officers within that team should they be required to support further operational activity.

Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley, from the MPS said: "The Met investigation has been painstaking and thorough and has for the first time brought together in one place what was disparate information across the world.

"This work has enabled us to better understand events in Praia da Luz the night Madeleine McCann went missing and ensure every possible measure is being taken to find out what happened to her.

"We still have very definite lines to pursue which is why we are keeping a dedicated team of officers working on the case. We have given this assurance to Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann.

"The Portuguese police remain the lead investigators and our team will continue to support their inquiry. They have extended every courtesy to Operation Grange and we maintain a close working relationship. I know they remain fully committed to investigating Madeleine's disappearance with support from the Metropolitan Police.

"The Met was asked to take on this exceptional case as one of national interest. We were happy to bring our expertise to bear only on the basis that it would not detract from the policing of London; and the Home Office have additionally funded the investigation above normal grants to the Met. That will continue at the reduced level.

"I have overseen this investigation since 2012 and am very grateful for the enormous assistance of the media and public so far which, through the appeals, have generated new information and lines of Inquiry. "

Our decision and rationale has been discussed with Mr and Mrs McCann.

Mr and Mrs McCann said: "We would like to thank all the staff from Operation Grange for the meticulous and painstaking work that they have carried out over the last four and a half years. The scale and difficulty of their task has never been in doubt.

"We are reassured that the investigation to find Madeleine has been significantly progressed and the MPS has a much clearer picture of the events in Praia da Luz leading up to Madeleine's abduction in 2007.

"Given that the review phase of the investigation is essentially completed, we fully understand the reasons why the team is being reduced.

"We would also like to thank the Home Office for continuing to support the investigation.

"Whilst we do not know what happened to Madeleine, we remain hopeful that she may still be found given the ongoing lines of enquiry. "

The remaining Operation Grange officers will be deployed to other enquiries within Specialist Crime and Operations. "

http://news.met.police.uk/news/update-on-the-investigation-into-the-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann-135459

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE TO CONTINUE - extra funding granted

Post  Mimi on Thu 28 Sep 2017, 9:22 pm

OG must know MBM (or someone) died in 5A. So all these reports by the Met are carefully worded and fibs told - and they can`t really be criticised for telling fibs if it is helping to secure a conviction.

I remember all the info Peter Mac sent them - he being a retired police officer himself - surely they must have given credence to that.

Don`t forget also the involvement of Alison Saunders and her assistant going over to Portugal to liaise with the PJ - I bet that put the willies up the Mcs.

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE TO CONTINUE - extra funding granted

Post  Inca on Thu 28 Sep 2017, 9:23 pm

Mimi wrote:It became an proper investigation in summer 2012.

"Update on the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann

News    •   Oct 28, 2015 14:49 GMT

The Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) has today, 28 October announced the new structure and changes to the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

The investigation into what happened to Madeleine continues but with a smaller team of officers. Officers investigating her disappearance have completed the huge task of bringing together and investigating the massive amount of information held by colleagues in Portugal, the United Kingdom investigation and the private investigators working on behalf of the McCann family.

They are now following a small number of focused lines of inquiry that have allowed them to reduce the size of the Home Office funded team.

Detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann in May 2007 have been working through material and following investigative inquiries since the Home Office requested a review of the case in May 2011.

Operation Grange is working to support the Portuguese investigation and this work continues.

While there remain lines of inquiry to follow, the vast majority of the work by Operation Grange has been completed.

This work included reviewing all the material relating to the case which were brought together for the first time and amounted to collating over 40,000 documents from United Kingdom and foreign law enforcement agencies, as well as various private investigation companies.

Officers worked meticulously through the information. Some of the material had to be translated into English, facts had to be cross-referred and diligently analysed to ensure an oversight of what the MPS was examining and to search for new lines of inquiry.

Once this work had been completed the review became a full investigation in July 2012.

The investigation team has taken 1,338 statements and collected 1,027 exhibits. Having reviewed all of the documents, 7,154 actions were raised and 560 lines of enquiry identified, and over thirty international request to countries across the world asking for work to be undertaken on behalf of the Met.

Officers have investigated more than 60 persons of interest. A total of 650 sex offenders have also been considered as well as reports of 8,685 potential sightings of Madeleine around the world.

The Grange team received on average two hundred emails a week, and following the media appeal in October 2013 across three countries, received over 7,000 responses.

For an investigation of this size, the extraordinary circumstances of investigating a missing child four years later in another country, the vast wealth of information and theories, it was always going to be an immense task and required a full team of 29 staff working on it.

With the significant amount of work approaching completion, as with all investigations the MPS has reviewed the staff required to progress the remaining work.

A team of four officers will continue to work solely on the Grange investigation, funded by the Home Office. The enquiry has not reached a conclusion, there are still focused lines of investigation to be pursued.

The officers will continue to be overseen by Detective Chief Inspector Nicola Wall, the current senior investigating officer, and sit within an existing major investigation team on the Homicide and Major Crime Command. This will give them access to officers within that team should they be required to support further operational activity.

Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley, from the MPS said: "The Met investigation has been painstaking and thorough and has for the first time brought together in one place what was disparate information across the world.

"This work has enabled us to better understand events in Praia da Luz the night Madeleine McCann went missing and ensure every possible measure is being taken to find out what happened to her.

"We still have very definite lines to pursue which is why we are keeping a dedicated team of officers working on the case. We have given this assurance to Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann.

"The Portuguese police remain the lead investigators and our team will continue to support their inquiry. They have extended every courtesy to Operation Grange and we maintain a close working relationship. I know they remain fully committed to investigating Madeleine's disappearance with support from the Metropolitan Police.

"The Met was asked to take on this exceptional case as one of national interest. We were happy to bring our expertise to bear only on the basis that it would not detract from the policing of London; and the Home Office have additionally funded the investigation above normal grants to the Met. That will continue at the reduced level.

"I have overseen this investigation since 2012 and am very grateful for the enormous assistance of the media and public so far which, through the appeals, have generated new information and lines of Inquiry. "

Our decision and rationale has been discussed with Mr and Mrs McCann.

Mr and Mrs McCann said: "We would like to thank all the staff from Operation Grange for the meticulous and painstaking work that they have carried out over the last four and a half years. The scale and difficulty of their task has never been in doubt.

"We are reassured that the investigation to find Madeleine has been significantly progressed and the MPS has a much clearer picture of the events in Praia da Luz leading up to Madeleine's abduction in 2007.

"Given that the review phase of the investigation is essentially completed, we fully understand the reasons why the team is being reduced.

"We would also like to thank the Home Office for continuing to support the investigation.

"Whilst we do not know what happened to Madeleine, we remain hopeful that she may still be found given the ongoing lines of enquiry. "

The remaining Operation Grange officers will be deployed to other enquiries within Specialist Crime and Operations. "

http://news.met.police.uk/news/update-on-the-investigation-into-the-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann-135459
Well found mimi. I don't see the abduction word anywhere.
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Re: OPERATION GRANGE TO CONTINUE - extra funding granted

Post  PMR on Thu 28 Sep 2017, 9:35 pm

TheTruthWillOut wrote:
candyfloss wrote:I think we can take it this is a bona fida investigation now, this would never be allowed to happen otherwise.  I am very pleased it is continuing, I hope they can reach a conclusion, and hopefully justice for Madeleine,  they must have something, otherwise it would have been wound up the amount of dissenting voices against it.

Me and you are only among a few that have always believed this! cheers

And me ! I am firmly of the school that a cover up would have ended long ago. The police will be playing their cards close to their chest , they may say the Mcs' and The Tapas group aren't suspects / aren't being investigated but in reality....
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Re: OPERATION GRANGE TO CONTINUE - extra funding granted

Post  Helenmeg on Thu 28 Sep 2017, 9:38 pm

I agree PMR. This has to be positive in terms of some truth emerging - especially as the extra £70,000 ifs for admin and employing people who are not detectives...(at least I think I just read that in Sun Online).
This additional funding just granted is to carry them through until March. They are taking their time to get this right - dotting i's etc. Very Happy
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Re: OPERATION GRANGE TO CONTINUE - extra funding granted

Post  Châtelaine on Thu 28 Sep 2017, 9:55 pm

They cannot say or do anything, IMO, until they have the final waterproof proof. The extra money, IMO again, might be for expensive enhanced forensics. I've recently read quite a lot about cold cases being solved by that.
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Re: OPERATION GRANGE TO CONTINUE - extra funding granted

Post  Mimi on Thu 28 Sep 2017, 10:25 pm

Courtesy of GEC at TCMOMM - some interesting deductions from PM :-

"More from PeterMac

The funding now lasts until March next year.

This means that Grange is ABSOLUTELY SURE, - certain so that they are SURE, Beyond a reasonable doubt,  -  that Madeleine will NOT be found before then
Otherwise the wording would have been till March, "or earlier if she is found" . . .  But is wasn't and never has been.
Even the McCanns were planning 100 day and one and two year "anniversaries" within a very short time of her alleged disappearance.

So we can dispose of any idea that there is any sort of "search" for a live Madeleine. There never has been.  Not even the parents pretended to do so.
Grange did a bit of high publicity searching for a DEAD Madeleine, but no one has ever done anything about a live one. (Apart from hundreds of holiday makers on the first night, obviously)

So we move logically to what is left.

Tracking down a last suspect / the Final Clue . . .
Does anyone really believe there is an identified 'suspect; who it will take EXACTLY 6 months to trace, and which after ten years of two police forces working together they have not yet managed to bring in for questioning ?

And why the FINAL CLUE ?   How do they already know there will be no others ? Cold case investigations bring up clues decades down the line.  But here they KNOW this is final ?


OR . . . . .
Given that the DPP / CPS went to Portugal some years ago - obviously to talk about possible charges and jurisdiction - (Because that is what the DPP / CPS does)
Given that the Supreme Court of Portugal has unequivocally ruled against the McCanns and went further to state in bold and highly unusual terms that they had NOT been exonerated or cleared
Given that the McCann's supposed Appeal against the Portuguese Supreme Court to the ECHR is likely to be chucked out in a few weeks or months
Given that the Mccanns will then have to cough up the entire costs of all four actions
Given that the previous "accountants" to the "Fund" (HM) have totally washed their hands of it and seem to have declined to prepare a final account
Given that the McCanns were reported - by their own spokes-thing to have siphoned off £ 750,000 from the "Fund" into their own privately controlled account .  [Thanks for that Mitchell !]
Given that the press are now pretending that a stated  £ 500,000 is the McCann's "own money" just ready to be put back and used for the search

Are Grange now watching the "Fund" and preparing an "Al Capone' moment for them all ?

Or possibly just booking flights to the Algarve over the winter !

I confess I don't know. "

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE TO CONTINUE - extra funding granted

Post  Mo on Thu 28 Sep 2017, 11:12 pm

Great news! cheers

As this is a PJ investigation I can only assume that a UK connection is required. That is why the funding has been granted. If the investigation was more international then I am sure they would conduct the investigation with the Country concerned.
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Re: OPERATION GRANGE TO CONTINUE - extra funding granted

Post  Bampots on Thu 28 Sep 2017, 11:18 pm


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Re: OPERATION GRANGE TO CONTINUE - extra funding granted

Post  candyfloss on Fri 29 Sep 2017, 10:58 am


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Re: OPERATION GRANGE TO CONTINUE - extra funding granted

Post  Heisenburg on Fri 29 Sep 2017, 11:52 am

One wonders on the precise figure,rather that rounded up to £155,000 or down to £150,000
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Re: OPERATION GRANGE TO CONTINUE - extra funding granted

Post  Châtelaine on Fri 29 Sep 2017, 12:22 pm

Getting public money is a serious business. And OG IMO had to put in a very precise budget. A budget based on 4 detectives for 6 months PLUS external people/companies, who would have put in THEIR budget to them. E.g. new forensics, specialised accountants ... ?
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Re: OPERATION GRANGE TO CONTINUE - extra funding granted

Post  unreorganised on Fri 29 Sep 2017, 1:31 pm

PMR wrote:

And me ! I am firmly of the school that a cover up would have ended long ago.

Er... not referring specifically to the matter at hand here, but surely the point of a cover up is that you can't end it? Only bona fide investigations can actually be concluded. In fact the interminable nature of OG is one of the things that most points to it being a cover up, IMHO.

Of course I'll gladly admit I was wrong, IF and WHEN circumstances prevail.
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Re: OPERATION GRANGE TO CONTINUE - extra funding granted

Post  PMR on Fri 29 Sep 2017, 1:54 pm

I was referring to OG specifically not the whole case
If OG is a cover up to protect the Mcs' etc then it would be easy to say they had uncovered nothing and couldn't see any way forward ,They could find a dead patsy , they could have funding turned down etc this would have happened years ago
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Re: OPERATION GRANGE TO CONTINUE - extra funding granted

Post  candyfloss on Fri 29 Sep 2017, 2:31 pm

CLAUDIA LAWRENCE’S MUM JOAN ON WHY WE SHOULD KEEP FUNDING THE SEARCH FOR MADDIE
I don't think you can put a price on a child's life
– Joan Lawrence
For ten years the case of missing Madeleine McCann has shocked, puzzled and divided the public like no other. Her disappearance sparked one of the most high-profile, and costly, police investigations of recent times with more than eleven million pounds spent so far. The fund was due to run out this weekend, but after a request from the McCanns for more money, Scotland Yard have given an additional £154,000 to keep the search going.
Claudia Lawrence's mum Joan thinks the search should continue to be funded, but as police will give no details of the lead - nor why it is proving so difficult to resolve, we ask is it time to move on and close the case once and for all?

http://www.itv.com/thismorning

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE TO CONTINUE - extra funding granted

Post  candyfloss on Fri 29 Sep 2017, 2:35 pm

 but after a request from the McCanns for more money, Scotland Yard have given an additional £154,000 to keep the search going.


So it wasn't SY that asked for more money it was the McCanns! Rolling Eyes

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Re: OPERATION GRANGE TO CONTINUE - extra funding granted

Post  Châtelaine on Fri 29 Sep 2017, 2:42 pm

My foot!
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Re: OPERATION GRANGE TO CONTINUE - extra funding granted

Post  PMR on Fri 29 Sep 2017, 3:09 pm

I'm pretty sure Grange continuing is the last thing the Mcs' want ( although they can't say so)
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Re: OPERATION GRANGE TO CONTINUE - extra funding granted

Post  froggy on Fri 29 Sep 2017, 3:27 pm

Particularly now that its down the the Portuguese looking at sensitive and complex issues.
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Re: OPERATION GRANGE TO CONTINUE - extra funding granted

Post  dogs don't lie on Fri 29 Sep 2017, 9:30 pm

Mo wrote:Great news! cheers

As this is a PJ investigation I can only assume that a UK connection is required. That is why the funding has been granted. If the investigation was more international then I am sure they would conduct the investigation with the Country concerned.

There's a thought, I wonder is this the reason there's only four working on it now?

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