13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  Guest on Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:19 pm


No worries Anne. The situation will become clearer in the next few days, when SY get to the lab, supposed to be tomorrow.
Would think the samples to be looked at are the ones so contaminated they yielded no useful results and those that could not be matched to anyone at the time.

Interesting if the tv news report on this. Will go read the forensic reports again.



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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  Anne on Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:09 pm

Russian Doll wrote:  
No worries Anne. The situation will become clearer in the next few days, when SY get to the lab, supposed to be tomorrow.
Would think the samples to be looked at are the ones so contaminated they yielded no useful results and those that could not be matched to anyone at the time.

Interesting if the tv news report on this. Will go read the forensic reports again.



Thanks Russian Doll, yes we'll see what the next few days bring, I'm sure a source will have something to say.
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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  DarkestDawn on Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:27 pm

OG have to keep the case watertight to prevent diversions, but the information they are slowly letting us have is carefully shaping public opinion, even if at times it appears to be lost in tabloid spin.

If I were in charge of an investigation where one side of the story had been forced upon the public, then I would counter it with a slow drip of information to the contrary - not enough at once to cause a riot, or incite numerous false reports to muddy the waters, but to allow people to digest the information consciously and subliminally, so that they began to consider different options, and ultimately come to their own conclusions, beyond reasonable doubt.

If we look at what they've told us and implied in the last year:

OGs remit is to investigate the entire circumstances surrounding MM's disappearance (no mention of abduction in the files on the Met website)

Madeleine is likely dead
Tanner Man is out
Smithman is in
Cadaver dogs have a place in this investigation
The forensics are to be re-examined (look how much your phone has changed in 7 years, now think of what DNA tech could possibly do today!)

We know that they've examined the phone logs, and we know the CPS is involved, which suggests a possible prosecution on British soil. Add the ramifications of the UK's Joint Enterprise laws into the mix, and well - I'm guessing that OG is approaching its end game, just in time for the General Election!
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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  Cristobell on Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:18 pm

DarkestDawn wrote: OG have to keep the case watertight to prevent diversions, but the information they are slowly letting us have is carefully shaping public opinion, even if at times it appears to be lost in tabloid spin.

If I were in charge of an investigation where one side of the story had been forced upon the public, then I would counter it with a slow drip of information to the contrary - not enough at once to cause a riot, or incite numerous false reports to muddy the waters, but to allow people to digest the information consciously and subliminally, so that they began to consider different options, and ultimately come to their own conclusions, beyond reasonable doubt.

If we look at what they've told us and implied in the last year:

OGs remit is to investigate the entire circumstances surrounding MM's disappearance (no mention of abduction in the files on the Met website)

Madeleine is likely dead
Tanner Man is out
Smithman is in
Cadaver dogs have a place in this investigation
The forensics are to be re-examined (look how much your phone has changed in 7 years, now think of what DNA tech could possibly do today!)

We know that they've examined the phone logs, and we know the CPS is involved, which suggests a possible prosecution on British soil. Add the ramifications of the UK's Joint Enterprise laws into the mix, and well - I'm guessing that OG is approaching its end game, just in time for the General Election!


Wow Darkest Dawn, that is the best thing I have read in ages! I can't find an applause smiley, but those are my sentiments! Was losing heart a bit lately, but you have restored reason and logic Smile
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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  AndyB on Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:23 pm

DarkestDawn wrote:
If we look at what they've told us and implied in the last year:

OGs remit is to investigate the entire circumstances surrounding MM's disappearance (no mention of abduction in the files on the Met website)
Sorry but that's utter nonsense. Their remit is (my emphasis) "to examine the case and seek to determine, (as if the abduction occurred in the UK) what additional, new investigative approaches we would take and which can assist the Portuguese authorities in progressing the matter"

You can find it under "Related Publications" here
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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  Châtelaine on Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:26 pm

I think indeed, the revolutionary development in forensic science [and many others] during the past 7 years might bring a break-through. In combination with all of the circumstantial evidence so far, it's possibly damning. Well, one can hope ...
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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  Cristobell on Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:45 pm

Châtelaine wrote:I think indeed, the revolutionary development in forensic science [and many others] during the past 7 years might bring a break-through. In combination with all of the circumstantial evidence so far, it's possibly damning. Well, one can hope ...


The only thing that bothers me is why do the forensics at this stage, surely this should have been the first thing to examine? A definitive match anywhere would have saved them £10+ and 3 years of work. I totally agree there have been huge advancements in this science, but unless there has now been some groundbreaking discovering in this field, I am somewhat baffled.

Of course, they may well have found something during this year's digs, we shall have to wait and see, but it certainly looks as though the net is closing in. The idea that there are abductors/murderers living and working in PDL waiting for the next interview with Scotland Yard is absurd, and the tabloids must believe all their readers have been lobotomised, as they appear to have been.
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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  candyfloss on Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:46 pm

Cristobell wrote:
DarkestDawn wrote: OG have to keep the case watertight to prevent diversions, but the information they are slowly letting us have is carefully shaping public opinion, even if at times it appears to be lost in tabloid spin.

If I were in charge of an investigation where one side of the story had been forced upon the public, then I would counter it with a slow drip of information to the contrary - not enough at once to cause a riot, or incite numerous false reports to muddy the waters, but to allow people to digest the information consciously and subliminally, so that they began to consider different options, and ultimately come to their own conclusions, beyond reasonable doubt.

If we look at what they've told us and implied in the last year:

OGs remit is to investigate the entire circumstances surrounding MM's disappearance (no mention of abduction in the files on the Met website)

Madeleine is likely dead
Tanner Man is out
Smithman is in
Cadaver dogs have a place in this investigation
The forensics are to be re-examined (look how much your phone has changed in 7 years, now think of what DNA tech could possibly do today!)

We know that they've examined the phone logs, and we know the CPS is involved, which suggests a possible prosecution on British soil. Add the ramifications of the UK's Joint Enterprise laws into the mix, and well - I'm guessing that OG is approaching its end game, just in time for the General Election!


Wow Darkest Dawn, that is the best thing I have read in ages!  I can't find an applause smiley, but those are my sentiments!  Was losing heart a bit lately, but you have restored reason and logic Smile



Yes, I second that Cristobell, I think SY and Op Grange know what they are doing.

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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  Dee Coy on Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:12 pm

Cristobell wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:I think indeed, the revolutionary development in forensic science [and many others] during the past 7 years might bring a break-through. In combination with all of the circumstantial evidence so far, it's possibly damning. Well, one can hope ...


The only thing that bothers me is why do the forensics at this stage, surely this should have been the first thing to examine?  A definitive match anywhere would have saved them £10+ and 3 years of work.  I totally agree there have been huge advancements in this science, but unless there has now been some groundbreaking discovering in this field, I am somewhat baffled.  

Of course, they may well have found something during this year's digs, we shall have to wait and see, but it certainly looks as though the net is closing in.  The idea that there are abductors/murderers living and working in PDL waiting for the next interview with Scotland Yard is absurd, and the tabloids must believe all their readers have been lobotomised, as they appear to have been.  

It could be merely the forensic results of the stuff sent away during this summer's searches.

Or it could be that the Portuguese, following the 'determined' prosecutor's appointment and her instructions, that it is the Portuguese who have been making their own new analysis. Of the hair, for example? And what a relief it is to know that remnants of the original samples remain, and weren't all sent for destruction in Britain.

So could it be simply, as they have demonstrated in the most lamenting way, that the British are desperate to join with the Portuguese?  To see what they've got?

Certainly, as pointed out above it's very sensible to start with the forensics. So maybe that's exactly what Ines Sequeira has done?

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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  Guest on Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:22 pm

I'm more hopeful that justice will be served (and soon) than I have ever been. Who knows what the forensics team will be reviewing, could be work that is to be done, or could be results that have already been attained, or both. If forensics are involved, then surely they are analysing something very important that has been lacking in this case - hard evidence. I am certain that OG and the PJ certainly won't be giving out any specific details until a prosecution is sought, there's no reason in the world to give legal teams (and the media) a head-start for free.

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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  Châtelaine on Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:16 pm

Hear, hear, WLBTS.
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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  DarkestDawn on Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:31 pm

Hi AndyB

My apologies, it does indeed say that. I think the emphasis on dissapearance is encouraging though, and whilst abduction may well have been one of the theories to review, the investigation seems to have moved elsewhere over time.
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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  AndyB on Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:55 am

I hope you're right but I'm afraid I see nothing coming out of Grange to encourage me to believe that things might be taking a positive turn. Having said that *something* caused the review to become an investigation and "disappearance" does seem to have replaced "abduction" in the narrative so who knows.
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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  candyfloss on Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:07 am

Joana Morais @xklamation 16 mins16 minutes ago
Maddie case: English police to meet with Portuguese forensic experts http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/10/maddie-case-english-police-to-meet-with.html … #Mccann *photo Luís Forra pic.twitter.com/oTbuK8XHgV






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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  candyfloss on Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:31 am

LHL News @LHLNews 4 mins4 minutes ago
@xklamation Thank you, could be very interesting. #McCann



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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  Dee Coy on Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:02 am

candyfloss wrote:LHL News @LHLNews 4 mins4 minutes ago
@xklamation Thank you, could be very interesting. #McCann



And there we have it.

"Scotland Yard (SY) wants to know whether the samples collected in the apartment from where Madeleine McCann disappeared seven years ago may be subject to further forensic tests."

The British aren't examining the samples, the Portuguese may be. My bet is the British are very worried about that indeed.

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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  nobodythereeither on Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:44 am

AndyB wrote:I hope you're right but I'm afraid I see nothing coming out of Grange to encourage me to believe that things might be taking a positive turn. Having said that *something* caused the review to become an investigation and "disappearance" does seem to have replaced "abduction" in the narrative so who knows.


Forensic analysis doesn't encourage you to believe that things might be taking a positive turn?

What on earth would, then?!

Also, it's a long long time since anything coming out of SY referred solely to abduction, if memory serves. Whereas on several occasions death has been mentioned as one of the possibilities being looked at. Not to mention the two Freudian slips (or not?) referring to murder.

And one would not normally expect to see a team of police digging things up in an abduction case, I think.

I am cautiously optimistic that this really is the end game now. Provided the forensics come up with the conclusive evidence lacking so far to back up the circumstantial evidence. Fingers, toes and everything else crossed.

Then let's hope SY/PJ can put everything together into a watertight case against whoever did whatever was done.
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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  nobodythereeither on Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:46 am

candyfloss wrote:LHL News @LHLNews 4 mins4 minutes ago
@xklamation Thank you, could be very interesting. #McCann




Sorry to be dim, but where has that quote come from?
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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  candyfloss on Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:52 am

nobodythereeither wrote:
candyfloss wrote:LHL News @LHLNews 4 mins4 minutes ago
@xklamation Thank you, could be very interesting. #McCann




Sorry to be dim, but where has that quote come from?



From his article from Joana's blog which I posted just before the one above the one with the pic of Redwood......


http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/10/maddie-case-english-police-to-meet-with.html

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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  nobodythereeither on Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:55 am

Thanks, brain not in gear this morning
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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  gbwales on Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:06 pm

Overall I'm remaining optimistic about this, but I do hope the Portuguese are operating some kind of a "Look but don't touch" on any and all samples as far as SY are concerned.
They must leave no room for the case to be sabotaged again.
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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  Dee Coy on Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:11 pm

nobodythereeither wrote:
AndyB wrote:I hope you're right but I'm afraid I see nothing coming out of Grange to encourage me to believe that things might be taking a positive turn. Having said that *something* caused the review to become an investigation and "disappearance" does seem to have replaced "abduction" in the narrative so who knows.


Forensic analysis doesn't encourage you to believe that things might be taking a positive turn?

What on earth would, then?!

Also, it's a long long time since anything coming out of SY referred solely to abduction, if memory serves. Whereas on several occasions death has been mentioned as one of the possibilities being looked at. Not to mention the two Freudian slips (or not?) referring to murder.

And one would not normally expect to see a team of police digging things up in an abduction case, I think.

I am cautiously optimistic that this really is the end game now. Provided the forensics come up with the conclusive evidence lacking so far to back up the circumstantial evidence. Fingers, toes and everything else crossed.

Then let's hope SY/PJ can put everything together into a watertight  case against whoever did whatever was done.

But the forensic analysis hasn't come from the British investigation,  it's the Portuguese who are instigating any retesting.

Yes, this is spectacularly good news, but my hope is with the PJ, not SY. If samples remained, any retesting should have happened at the beginning of OG. The fact that it never has tells you all you need to know. Conversely, Ines Sequeira is appointed and within weeks Portugese retesting is on the agenda.

The impression I'm getting is that Andy has flown over there pdq in an effort to find out just what is going on. And perhaps to attempt some damage limitation.

Just my opinion, though.

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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  Dee Coy on Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:12 pm

gbwales wrote:Overall I'm remaining optimistic about this, but I do hope the Portuguese are operating some kind of a "Look but don't touch" on any and all samples as far as SY are concerned.
They must leave no room for the case to be sabotaged again.

Agree completely.

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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  AndyB on Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:54 pm

nobodythereeither wrote:
AndyB wrote:I hope you're right but I'm afraid I see nothing coming out of Grange to encourage me to believe that things might be taking a positive turn. Having said that *something* caused the review to become an investigation and "disappearance" does seem to have replaced "abduction" in the narrative so who knows.


Forensic analysis doesn't encourage you to believe that things might be taking a positive turn?

What on earth would, then?!
Something meaningful like arrests or a statement explaining what crime the Met believe they are investigating.

What forensics anyway? All I see is SY asking if tests were to be/could be done on the hair that GA regards as possibly crucial. That looks like panic to me and a desire to destroy it like the UK authorities did last time they had their hands on evidence. There's also apparently been some tests done by the Portuguese (not the UK) on some inorganic matter recovered from the dogs last time. If the inorganic matter was a blue sports bag that might give me hope but, like I say I see nothing from SY, that makes me believe they arent still chasing an abductor
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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  nobodythereeither on Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:08 pm

AndyB wrote:
nobodythereeither wrote:
AndyB wrote:I hope you're right but I'm afraid I see nothing coming out of Grange to encourage me to believe that things might be taking a positive turn. Having said that *something* caused the review to become an investigation and "disappearance" does seem to have replaced "abduction" in the narrative so who knows.


Forensic analysis doesn't encourage you to believe that things might be taking a positive turn?

What on earth would, then?!

Something meaningful like arrests or a statement explaining what crime the Met believe they are investigating.

What forensics anyway? All I see is SY asking if tests were to be/could be done on the hair that GA regards as possibly crucial. That looks like panic to me and a desire to destroy it like the UK authorities did last time they had their hands on evidence. There's also apparently been some tests done by the Portuguese (not the UK) on some inorganic matter recovered from the dogs last time. If the inorganic matter was a blue sports bag that might give me hope but, like I say I see nothing from SY, that makes me believe they arent still chasing an abductor


Oh dear, at the risk of sounding like a broken record to anybody who was on the TCMOMM forum, why on earth would SY show their hand by making a statement explaining what crime they believe they are investigating? Or indeed anything else. They have already said that they are not going to give a running commentary on the case.

Why on earth would they divulge anything about what they are doing, unless they had a very good reason to?

Apart from anything else, such as alerting possible suspects, it could potentially damage any future trial.

And imagine what the MSM would do.

And SY/PJ are not going to arrest anybody until they are extremely sure they are going to be able to make a prosecution stick, after all this time, money and hassle, are they?

And we have no idea exactly what forensic evidence they may look at - have we?

Don't let me stop you continuing to believe that SY are still chasing an abductor, though. I do think that they have been looking at this line, but purely in order to be able to show (possibly for a future trial) that a) abduction of a live child by a stranger wasn't possible and b) that specific people suggested could not have abducted Madeleine.

But I know as much as you do about SY's strategy, ie zilch.

Judging from the recent appearance of the McCanns, I doubt that the McCanns believe that SY are "still chasing an abductor" at the moment.
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