13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  Andrew on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 2:06 pm

Playing catch up here as not been online since yest but great post nobodythereither.

Totally agree with all that.

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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  candyfloss on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 2:13 pm

@nobodythereither

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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  Châtelaine on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 2:33 pm

Absolutely. They [NSY] won't give any inside information about a running investigation. See quote from Telegraph in MacDonald thread: "A spokesman for Scotland Yard said they would never discuss who they wanted to speak to as part of any investigation.". This applies to ALL "suspects" including T9, IMO.
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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  candyfloss on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 3:03 pm

Just a reminder of this been posted on twitter.......



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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  nobodythereeither on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 3:10 pm

If what is said in that video is accurate, I wonder why those forensics (the hire car ones) weren't sufficient evidence to prosecute.

Is it because they still didn't know what exactly had happened to Madeleine, and who had done what?
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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  travis macbickle on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 3:10 pm

@46 secs Madeleine had been staying there for the best part of a fortnight?
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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  candyfloss on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 3:17 pm

travis macbickle wrote:@46 secs Madeleine had been staying there for the best part of a fortnight?


Mmmm, I also remember when he did his blogs he said the same, but it was whooshed later.  Always thought it odd!

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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  Andrew on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 3:49 pm

Brunty doing some decent reporting back in the old days.

Eta - Yeah strange he said a fortnight. Just a speech error or more to it than that.. Mmmm.

Eta 2 - Where the hell is Brunty.
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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  nobodythereeither on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 4:00 pm

Very interesting and very recent article, translated by Google Translate and nicked from another forum.

British police demonstrates willingness to conduct further investigations

Lusa Oct 15, 2014, 15:02

British police demonstrates willingness to conduct further investigations

Photo: Reuters

The president of the Institute of Legal Medicine, Brízida Francisco Martins, said today in Coimbra, that the Scotland Yard inspectors demonstrated willingness to conduct further investigations to evidence gathered under the Madeleine McCann case.

Scotland Yard "demonstrated willingness to [make new analyzes}", being open the possibility of them being held in England or back in the National Institute of Legal Medicine (INML), told Brízida Francisco Martins, after a three-hour meeting with five elements of the British police, two of which, experts in genetics.

These analyzes would have to be made "in cooperation" between the Portuguese and British authorities and the delivery of new rogatory letter, explained the head of INML, stressing that, although some traces may not be able to analyze, "today "with the technological evolution," is achieved go further than a few years ago. "

The elements of Scotland Yard, who are developing a parallel to the Portuguese authorities to investigate, "intended to clarify the procedures in examinations of genetics and biology," performed in INML in 2007, he said.

"There was a recognition of the work of the institute," being the INML "available for new tests," advanced.

The meeting between the British police and the institute began around 10:30, in Coimbra, and ended at 13:30.

The charge of coordinating the Scotland Yard investigation in Madeleine McCann case, Andy Redwood, refused to weave any comment on the meeting with the members of the Institute of Legal Medicine.

Scotland Yard inspectors gathered on Tuesday, with the PJ in Faro, three months after the last inquiries under the Madeleine McCann case.

British police have been preparing new interrogations of suspects in this case, after, in July, they have questioned four defendants and a dozen witnesses.

In August, the Scotland Yard handed the fifth letter of request to the Portuguese authorities, in order to conduct new investigations that have not been authorized by the new attorney of the Public Ministry of Portimão.

In early June, British agents forensics, PJ and GNR performed several searches with dogs, the viewpoint of Praia da Luz and land at the entrance to the tourist resort of Aldeia da Luz.

Altogether, we investigated an area of ​​about 60 thousand square meters, including electricity and gas, sewage pipelines and buildings in ruins, with the help of sniffer dogs and "georradares" searches have proved fruitless.

Maddie McCann disappeared on May 3, 2007, the room where he slept with both, younger, in an apartment of a tourist resort in Praia da Luz in the Algarve twin brothers.

- See more at: http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=pt-BR&tl=en&u=http://www.rtp.pt/noticias/index.php%3Farticle%3D774293%26tm%3D8%26layout%3D121%26visual%3D49&usg=ALkJrhjt8Tp-oVR7ErIXS6TE0CfW0CbcYg#sthash.7Pb3mSw9.dpuf
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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  Andrew on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 4:07 pm

I'm taking it the last sentence got lost in translation a bit.

'He slept'... 'Twin Brothers'.

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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  travis macbickle on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 4:12 pm

candyfloss wrote:
travis macbickle wrote:@46 secs Madeleine had been staying there for the best part of a fortnight?


Mmmm, I also remember when he did his blogs he said the same, but it was whooshed later.  Always thought it odd!


It may be that he is simply an idiot .He also says the car was hired 5 weeks after Madeleine,s disappearance.
The renault scenic was hired on the 27th may 2007 that would be 24 days not 5 weeks.Confusing or what.
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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  nobodythereeither on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 4:37 pm

Andrew wrote:I'm taking it the last sentence got lost in translation a bit.

'He slept'... 'Twin Brothers'.


I thought (apart from that, obviously) the English was remarkably good for a Google translation!!

As I don't speak or read Portuguese, however, I can't say whether there are any significant (to the case) errors in the translation.
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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  candyfloss on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 5:59 pm

The Sun Newsdesk @SunNewsdesk 2h2 hours ago
Exclusive: DNA and other forensics found in the flat where Maddie McCann vanished are to be tested by Brit experts:








This is it, or some of  it, the rest is pay per view......



http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/6001779/Mystery-DNA-to-be-tested-in-Maddie-investigation.html?CMP=SOC-Sun-Twitter-11_20_2013-191-0-0-0




Maddie Brit cops plan new forensic tests

Probe on DNA found at holiday site






EXCLUSIVE

By MATT WILKINSON

Published: 2 hrs ago




British cops investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann are pinning their hopes on a technological breakthrough after getting the go ahead from Portuguese authorities.


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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  Guest on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 6:43 pm

Do they still have samples from the hire car?

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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  Dee Coy on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 6:50 pm

Tigger wrote:
Dr. Amaral mentioned the importance  of a hair from Madeleine which is stored in the Portugal Forensic lab would be an important factor in the case.

Without a follicle the full spectrum DNA could not be extracted at the time, but in the last few years this has become possible.

I hope you're right wlbts!

Here's Dr Amaral talking about the hair. It appears the technology WAS around then but the British were in denial:

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post287348.html?hilit=test%20hair#p287348




As news of the Met’s latest Madeleine theories sweeps the world, here in Portugal some very different revelations - equally chilling in their content - received almost zero publicity.

An interview with ‘infamous’ Madeleine cop, Gonçalo Amaral, described how vital leads in the case appear to have been deliberately dropped.

Far from expounding on the possibility of a sexual predator stalking the bedrooms of young white girls on holiday from England, Amaral talked of high-level political involvement which left DNA samples untested and key witnesses overlooked.

It could have been dismissed as another conspiracy-theorists’ stunt apart from the fact that the programme was presented by well-known news anchor Júlio Magalhães - former director of information at TVI and current director-general of Porto Canal - with questions fielded by respected political thinker and one-time PSD leader and mayor, Luís Filipe Menezes.

Menezes opened the interview saying that after almost seven years of media frenzy, perhaps it was time to ask whether the PJ was qualified to investigate a crime of this complexity. “Doubts arise as to whether our police, our State, is protected against national and international political influences that interfere in the day-to-day professional thinking of police and other criminal investigators,” he said.

His invitation to Gonçalo Amaral - awaiting the result of a trial for defamation brought by Kate and Gerry McCann, who allege his theories that Madeleine is dead hampered the search for their daughter - was a chance to see whether the former investigator was “a Portuguese version of Dirty Harry, or a politically-correct policeman”.

Amaral’s answers came thick and fast. The day he left the Madeleine investigation was “the day Gordon Brown (then British prime minister) spoke with José Socrátes (then Portuguese prime minister).”

At the time, Amaral told Menezes, Portuguese police were keen to interview the Irish family who had identified Gerry McCann as the man they thought they had seen carrying a child down towards the beach on the night Madeleine went missing.
This plan was quickly scuppered. Amaral’s substitute on the case “was told that it was not relevant to bring the Irish (family) to Portugal,” he told Menezes. “And that was that. The Irish family was never heard.”

As to DNA evidence that was discovered in the McCanns’ rental car, Amaral was adamant that this could have been more thoroughly tested. While initial findings on blood were deemed inconclusive, Amaral explains hair samples were simply not followed up as British lab technicians claimed it was impossible to test hair samples without roots.

“It is possible, and even at the time it was possible!” Amaral insisted.

“These hair samples are in Portugal! They were returned in Portugal and they are in the files. It’s simple! All the public ministry has to do is take the hairs and send them to a European laboratory, or anywhere where these kinds of exams are done without roots.”

Menezes, who had described himself at the outset as “never neutral in these matters” but seeking to be impartial, quizzed Amaral on one of the myriad “strange twists” in the early stages of the case.

Referring to the hiring of Clarence Mitchell as the McCanns’ press 'face', he said: “How is it comprehensible that the spokesman for the English Prime Minister had left, in 24 hours, Tony Blair to be the McCann family’s spokesman? Isn’t that strange?”

“Of course,” replies Amaral. “It is another mystery within the mystery, and maybe if we can understand this little mystery we will be able to understand what lies behind, not the disappearance, not the death of the child, but what lies behind the protection… Why the protection…”

Full of questions and inconvenient allegations, it was an interview that aimed to illustrated the depth and scope of the “complexities” Luís Filipe Menezes had suggested might just be too much for the PJ - or indeed any police force.

“Only when there is the political will on both sides” will the case be resolved, said Amaral, concluding, “when investigations are politically correct, they lead nowhere.”

Meantime in UK, Operation Grange has revealed that it is currently receiving hundreds of calls in response to the latest announcement that a bare-chested sexual predator abused five little white girls - all older than Madeleine – while they were sleeping in their beds in holiday homes along the Algarve between 2004 and 2006.

The Met described 12 separate crimes leading up to 2010, only four of them involving the sexual abuse of girls aged 7-10.

Whether the other eight crimes involved another type of sexual abuse has not been divulged.

According to Correio da Manhã newspaper, it was the evidence of this predator that led Portuguese investigators to ask the public ministry to reopen the Madeleine case in October last year.

Characteristically tight-lipped about the course of their investigations, the PJ nonetheless have been known to feed information to the Portuguese and foreign press.

On Wednesday (March 19), a spokesman agreed with the Met’s Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood that the new suspect is considered to be a key to resolving the long-running mystery, just over a month away from reaching its seventh anniversary.



Which once again begs the question - why now and not three years ago?

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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  Châtelaine on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 7:07 pm

I'm getting more and more positive vibes ...
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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  nobodythereeither on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 7:09 pm

Châtelaine wrote:I'm getting more and more positive vibes ...

Me too.

Doesn't seem likely that they're looking for the DNA of an "abductor", does it?
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Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  costello on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 7:56 pm

I get the feeling this case has been based on getting the timing right, Government issues etc. I also believe both Operation Grange and the P.J. have been working hand in hand for quite some time now with the same conclusion. I think this is the last phase.
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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  nobodythereeither on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 8:01 pm

Poor twins.
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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  candyfloss on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 8:17 pm

costello wrote:I get the feeling this case has been based on getting the timing right, Government issues etc. I also believe both Operation Grange and the P.J. have been working hand in hand for quite some time now with the same conclusion. I think this is the last phase.    


I think that we have been in the last phase since the CPS were brought in a while ago. Also IMO all this news we are getting now re the DNA etc. had already been done previously, then the CPS became involved......then the digs in PDL, and more stuff sent to Lab - my feeling is we are being drip fed information now bit by bit.....

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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  AndyB on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 8:36 pm

nobodythereeither wrote:
AndyB wrote:
nobodythereeither wrote:
AndyB wrote:I hope you're right but I'm afraid I see nothing coming out of Grange to encourage me to believe that things might be taking a positive turn. Having said that *something* caused the review to become an investigation and "disappearance" does seem to have replaced "abduction" in the narrative so who knows.


Forensic analysis doesn't encourage you to believe that things might be taking a positive turn?

What on earth would, then?!

Something meaningful like arrests or a statement explaining what crime the Met believe they are investigating.

What forensics anyway? All I see is SY asking if tests were to be/could be done on the hair that GA regards as possibly crucial. That looks like panic to me and a desire to destroy it like the UK authorities did last time they had their hands on evidence. There's also apparently been some tests done by the Portuguese (not the UK) on some inorganic matter recovered from the dogs last time. If the inorganic matter was a blue sports bag that might give me hope but, like I say I see nothing from SY, that makes me believe they arent still chasing an abductor


Oh dear, at the risk of sounding like a broken record to anybody who was on the TCMOMM forum, why on earth would SY show their hand by making a statement explaining what crime they believe they are investigating? Or indeed anything else. They have already said that they are not going to give a running commentary on the case.
Who said anything about a running commentary on the case? I said that SY announcing that they were investigating a crime would give me encouragement that perhaps they were investigating honestly and I see nothing wrong with having that opinion. They’ve so far spent getting on for £10m of our money and I don’t think it unreasonable to ask why – its our money and they’re supposed to be accountable. For every other police operation we know what the crime is without it affecting the police’s ability to investigate so what is it that’s different about this one?

Either Grange is a legitimate investigation into a crime or it isn’t and if it isn’t a crime investigation what is it? Don’t you think we’re entitled to know, at least in the broadest terms, why so much money is being spent? If the police are doing their job and investigating a crime then fair enough. If they’re attempting to sabotage a foreign police forces investigation under the guise of investigating a “disappearance” then that’s something different altogether. If they tell us that it’s the former then I’ll be reassured but I find their silence indicative of the continuation of the interference by the UK state.

What evidence do you have, beyond blind hope (a hope that I share) that Grange is genuine? The only things I can think of are the move from review to investigation (something must have caused that) and the gradual change in language away from “abduction” to “disappearance” but that isn’t very much and I certainly don’t think the press claim that UK authorities can get their hands on the  physical evidence proof of sincerity on the part of Grange. I think it can more realistically be viewed as the final nail in the coffin of truth as the powers that be destroy the last remaining barrier in the way of a cover up.

nobodythereeither wrote:Why on earth would they divulge anything about what they are doing, unless they had a very good reason to?

Apart from anything else, such as alerting possible suspects, it could potentially damage any future trial.
I’m not asking them to, but they seem very keen to do precisely what you suggest they aren’t – divulge what they’re doing particularly the names of various different “suspects” regardless of the harm that could do to a fair trial. Why? Because they know there isn’t going to be a trial so there’s no need to observe the normal protocols. Why not just do what they claim they’re going to do and not comment on an ongoing investigation? Another example is the blaze of publicity assigned to the various visits to Portugal complete with photographs.

nobodythereeither wrote:And SY/PJ  are not going to arrest anybody until they are extremely sure they are going to be able to make a prosecution stick, after all this time, money and hassle, are they?
Why not? Hundreds of people are arrested every day and many of them are subsequently released without charge. If, as you claim, the whole operation is being done in secret and none of what’s really happening is being divulged, how do you know there haven’t been arrests? The arrested people wouldn’t exactly publicise the fact would they?

nobodythereeither wrote:And we have no idea exactly what forensic evidence they may look at - have we?
No and we don’t know if there even is any do we? The only thing we have is stories in newspapers. These are the same newspapers that only very recently were rightly condemned for their inaccurate reporting of Sweepface’s “trolling”. There wasn’t a shred of truth in any of it but now it seems that you suddenly think that they’re paragons of truth and virtue. You can’t pick and choose – either press reports are to be regarded with suspicion or not. If you believe the former, why the enthusiasm that the latest reports are an indication of a positive step forward? If the latter, what about Sweepyface?

nobodythereeither wrote:But I know as much as you do about SY's strategy, ie zilch.
On the contrary, we know a lot of SY’s strategy because they have been very open about it. They’ve been roundly mocked on site’s such as this for the endless trail of suspects that they want to question. Even now there are two arguidos (3?) that we know about and SY have let it be known that they want to question more people and search houses (although God knows what for after all this time). We know that they’ve been digging around PdL. We know that the CPS have met with their Portuguese counterparts and, going back to the subject of this thread, we now know that they want their hands on the last remaining piece of forensic evidence for “examination by specialists”.
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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  Châtelaine on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 8:39 pm

@ Candyfloss
Drip-fed? As in not to be shocked? I think I cannot be shocked anymore in this case ... unless, of course, it's going to be inconclusive again :-(

ETA I AM aboslutely positive about NSY and PJ solving the case. Just that they're walking on eggs - as they should be ...
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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  nobodythereeither on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 9:20 pm

Andy B, I really can't go through all that stuff you've just posted at this time of night after a long day, so let me just say two things now:

1. If I wanted to listen to/discuss a load of conspiracy /whitewash (rude word censored here but begins with c and ends with p), I would re-register on TCMOMM under a different name.

But I don't, so I won't.

I happen to think that if there was a conspiracy/whitewash, this case would have been quietly wrapped up long ago, without years of time and enormous amounts of money being spent by SY.

And an awful lot of detectives would have to be in on any whitewash. Just not credible.

Fine if you disagree that OG is a kosher investigation, but please don't expect me to unless you can come up with some rather more convincing reasons than you have so far provided.

2. We know from the police files that there is forensic information .

Why are you suggesting we only know about it from the MSM? Are you implying that it doesn't exist at all? Or do you think the police files are part of the conspiracy as well?

Forgive me if I've misunderstood. I'm going to bed now.

ETA: You seem to be getting most of your "information" about what SY are "doing" from the MSM.

ETA on 16 October: OK I've read your lengthy comments properly now, and I've really got nothing to add to what I've already said.

If you are so sure about what SY are and aren't doing, you must be privy to some inside information, which I somewhat doubt.

SY cannot say what crime may have been committed until they are sure what happened and have evidence to prove it. They are investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, they have clearly said that she sadly may be dead, and they have for reasons which surely should be obvious to anybody with a grain of common sense not released very much information into the public domain.

Please don't continue with this, I really don't have time to keep making the same points over and over. It's like Groundhog Day from TCMOMM.



Last edited by nobodythereeither on Thu 16 Oct 2014, 11:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  candyfloss on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 10:07 pm

Small piece on front of Star tomorrow....


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Re: 13TH OCTOBER 2014 ; Forensic Scientists to join Brit Police in Maddie Investigation

Post  candyfloss on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 10:10 pm

Heheh - and this is a good one.........Hurricane GONZALO is set to batter Britain Laughing



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