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Post  Andrew on Thu 06 Nov 2014, 10:03 am

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Post  Freedom on Thu 06 Nov 2014, 10:18 am

I wasn't following the case particularly at this early stage but I remember watching this when it was on TV.

I wasn't surprised - not because I was aware then of all the inconsistencies, but just because of the tendency for most crimes of this nature being committed by someone known to the victims.

Then the report was never mentioned again and I thought I'd imagined it!
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Post  Dee Coy on Thu 06 Nov 2014, 1:22 pm

Pretty definite in her assumption, Phil, wasn't she?

As she won't have been party to the questionning that had taken place within the police station, I wonder what brought her to that conclusion?

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Post  chirpyinsect on Thu 06 Nov 2014, 1:35 pm

Andrew wrote:

Might just be coincidence but the big guy at the back in the kahki t shirt looks familiar.
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Post  costello on Thu 06 Nov 2014, 1:44 pm

In my opinion, Philomena knew the script from the start, or maybe even before?
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Post  candyfloss on Thu 06 Nov 2014, 1:47 pm

Dee Coy wrote:Pretty definite in her assumption, Phil, wasn't she?

As she won't have been party to the questionning that had taken place within the police station, I wonder what brought her to that conclusion?

Wasn't Justine McGuiness at the station, and wasn't she texting out info........

From  transcript........



BILTON: Kate McCann is at the station for 13 hours, but from inside she and Trish text out updates. Even at this point the message is being controlled.



McGUINNESS: We were a bit naughty because we did have messages coming out of the police station which we weren't supposed to...



BILTON: How did that work.. what, the text messages?



McGUINNESS: Yeah.



BILTON: And were the texts saying? Talk us through.



McGUINNESS: Sort of updates from things that were happening.



[Video: public statement to press]
I'd like to read a statement on Kate's arrival at the police station....




Knowing everybody had copy to write, had the 10 o'clock news like you did, or whatever, various different deadlines that they had. I felt that it was important just to manage people's expectations.



BILTON: She finally gets out at 1 o'clock in the morning. A lawyer tells family and friends what has been put to her by the police.



[Video: lawyer's public statement]
Kate has been listened to as a witness. The investigation will continue. Like everybody knows, because of the system of justice we can't say anymore.




McGUINNESS: I mean there was an allegation put to Kate that she'd been involved in harming her daughter, I mean a dreadful allegation to be put to any mother.



BILTON: At 3 in the morning after Kate McCann has returned to her villa, her lawyer arrives with what seems to be a deal. Plead guilty to manslaughter and escape with only 2 years in gaol. As he explains the offer, Philomena McCann is on the phone to her sister Trish

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Post  Dee Coy on Thu 06 Nov 2014, 2:01 pm

Thank you, Candyfloss.

I had forgotten this. I wonder if it was at this interrogation that Justine McGuinness became illuminated?

And that 'gaol deal'. Just a confession strategy?

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Post  Guest on Thu 06 Nov 2014, 5:13 pm


McGUINNESS: We were a bit naughty because we did have messages coming out of the police station which we weren't supposed to...


Rolling Eyes some people never get past the sixth form mindset do they?

Bit naughty.. Charged with hiding a body .. Words fail me, it's as if it was a live gameshow.

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Post  candyfloss on Thu 06 Nov 2014, 5:19 pm

Tigger wrote:
McGUINNESS: We were a bit naughty because we did have messages coming out of the police station which we weren't supposed to...


Rolling Eyes  some people never get past the sixth form  mindset do they?

Bit naughty..  Charged with hiding a body .. Words fail me, it's as if it was a live gameshow.
You can't get your breath can you, you wouldn't think they were talking about anything as serious as  a missing child! Shocked

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Post  Guest on Thu 06 Nov 2014, 5:34 pm

I would give a year off my own life to have a copy of that report that Martin Brunt gave about the broken neck, and cerebral/spinal fluid in a spray pattern.  All long gone.

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Post  Guest on Thu 06 Nov 2014, 6:00 pm

Dee Coy wrote:Pretty definite in her assumption, Phil, wasn't she?

As she won't have been party to the questionning that had taken place within the police station, I wonder what brought her to that conclusion?

But what happened for the charge not to have been forthcoming,unless the PJ thought by bringing charges at that time couldn't result in any charge of a more serious nature.Any one know how it works in Portugal say for instance if charged with neglect could they have been charged with any thing more serious.

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Post  chirpyinsect on Thu 06 Nov 2014, 6:39 pm

caricature wrote:
Dee Coy wrote:Pretty definite in her assumption, Phil, wasn't she?

As she won't have been party to the questionning that had taken place within the police station, I wonder what brought her to that conclusion?

But what happened for the charge not to have been forthcoming,unless the PJ thought by bringing charges at that time couldn't result in any charge of a more serious nature.Any one know how it works in Portugal say for instance if charged with neglect could they have been charged with any thing more serious.


I am sorry not to have a link to this because I can`t remember where I read it but it was probably on another forum. I am almost sure what I read said that if you are charged with a lesser crime in PT you cannot be then charged with a related greater crime. The inference was that is why the Mucks have been so happy to admit to neglect because if a trial was undertaken they would then deny the neglect but could not then be charged with (say) murder,
Not saying this is true but I know I did read it.
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Post  Guest on Thu 06 Nov 2014, 7:00 pm

chirpyinsect wrote:
caricature wrote:
Dee Coy wrote:Pretty definite in her assumption, Phil, wasn't she?

As she won't have been party to the questionning that had taken place within the police station, I wonder what brought her to that conclusion?

But what happened for the charge not to have been forthcoming,unless the PJ thought by bringing charges at that time couldn't result in any charge of a more serious nature.Any one know how it works in Portugal say for instance if charged with neglect could they have been charged with any thing more serious.


I am sorry not to have a link to this because I can`t remember where I read it but it was probably on another forum. I am almost sure what I read said that if you are charged with a lesser crime in PT you cannot be then charged with a related greater crime. The inference was that is why the Mucks have been so happy to admit to neglect because if a trial was undertaken they would then deny the neglect but could not then be charged with (say) murder,
Not saying this is true but I know I did read it.

Thanks for that chirpy,I'd thought I'd seen it also,maybe the PJ saw through it and have kept their powder dry for something more concrete.

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Post  Andrew on Thu 06 Nov 2014, 9:36 pm

From your link on today's problem thread Chirpy.

Has it been completely whooshed then - the 6 O'clock BBC news on the 7th of September reporting about the broken neck?

Did anyone by chance ever see it?
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Post  chirpyinsect on Thu 06 Nov 2014, 9:50 pm

Andrew wrote:From your link on today's problem thread Chirpy.

Has it been completely whooshed then - the 6 O'clock BBC news on the 7th of September reporting about the broken neck?

Did anyone by chance ever see it?

I can`t find it on BBC archives or on Youtube so guess it is whooshed. If you follow the link though it would appear it was Jane Hill who reported the broken neck thing. Now I know they often get things wrong but surely the BBC would have had to have had some sort of credible source for the story to go out on air. Or they would leave themselves wide open to accusations of providing misinformation.
As far as I know there was not a correction of this next day but strangely nor was there a follow up that I can find so has it been whooshed or did the Beeb themselves pull it cos they found out they had been misled?
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Post  Andrew on Thu 06 Nov 2014, 10:58 pm

Can't find anything either although came across this one of Jane Hill Very Happy

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Post  Guest on Fri 07 Nov 2014, 7:20 am

I do remember a male voice, probably Brunt, in a video clip saying something about a broken/neck hyoid bone.

It was a very  short clip and the speaker was in amongst a group of mostly male journalists. That is, they were just that moment passing on information  which was being given to them.
It looked to be outside a building.
So perhaps not only McGuinness was texting out, or she was stupid enough to pass such information to the press.
Wouldn't surprise me.

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Post  Andrew on Fri 07 Nov 2014, 7:53 am

Tigger wrote:I do remember a male voice, probably Brunt, in a video clip saying something about a broken/neck hyoid bone.

It was a very  short clip and the speaker was in amongst a group of mostly male journalists. That is, they were just that moment passing on information  which was being given to them.
It looked to be outside a building.
So perhaps not only McGuinness was texting out, or she was stupid enough to pass such information to the press.
Wouldn't surprise me.

Was Steve Kingstone according to someone from the 3A's.

Copied and pasted comment:

Sorry I dont have a link to the Steve Kingstone report ( most certainly cos the BBC has buried it ).
I do remember it very clearly ( more so than any other on this case ) and he was very clear that he had a police source who told him that they working on the theory that Madeline died of a broken neck. I have never seen Jane Hill reporting this and would be surprised that she had, since Steve K's report went out at 9pm ( live from PDL ) that night and the claim was never repeated.
If Jane Hill did also report this, then it be two reports and would be very significant indeed.
My speculation at the time was that SK met a friendly copper who told more than he was supposed to ( perhaps even a UK copper as he did not specify ?? ). If ( very big if ) this theory was started due to info from illegal taps, then it would need corroborative evidence, and would explain a lot as to why the invstigation turned round to the mccanns so quickly. The Tap evidence may not be admissable which would also explain a lot of the delays whilst more evidence is being collated ?
As I said speculation, but the concept is feasible given the desire of the mccanns to stick to abductor and deny neglect. ( also would explain their regret at 'not being there when it happened' )
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Post  chirpyinsect on Fri 07 Nov 2014, 8:13 am

Tigger wrote:I do remember a male voice, probably Brunt, in a video clip saying something about a broken/neck hyoid bone.

It was a very  short clip and the speaker was in amongst a group of mostly male journalists. That is, they were just that moment passing on information  which was being given to them.
It looked to be outside a building.
So perhaps not only McGuinness was texting out, or she was stupid enough to pass such information to the press.
Wouldn't surprise me.

Mention of the Hyoid bone is very specific is it not? It is not the sort of comment a lay person would come out with. I would say that is more likely to be in the form of a broken neck or suchlike. Therefore it sounds as though that info came from a knowledgeable source.

Snipped from Wiki

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCUQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FHyoid_bone&ei=XnxcVJaYG5LWavurgtAF&usg=AFQjCNH4DOCqnBwCHNLX3OIXMEVvjzmETg&sig2=QoenjUQmes84Iy53qpm1jw&bvm=bv.79184187,d.d2s

Due to its position, the hyoid bone is not susceptible to easy fracture. In a suspected case of murder, a fractured hyoid strongly indicates throttling or strangulation in an adult. However, this is not necessarily the case in children and adolescents, where the hyoid bone is still flexible as ossification is yet to be completed.

There is also this link which won`t allow me to snip part of it and is too long to post. If you open the link and type in hyoid it very clearly mentions throttling.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.forensicpathologyonline.com%2FE-Book%2Finjuries%2Fthermal-injuries&ei=XnxcVJaYG5LWavurgtAF&usg=AFQjCNHdT2D7LEjTHCGurjlvmwhapG7QjA&sig2=zh8bBfBNpOnKPve9BPIXwg&bvm=bv.79184187,d.d2s

Now I need to lie down.

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Post  chirpyinsect on Fri 07 Nov 2014, 8:23 am

Andrew I can't say for sure who may have reported the broken hyoid/neck/larynx but the following link which I accidentally posted on the wrong thread yesterday is quite specific that the author copied Jane Hills words verbatim.

Scroll down to the entries from 2345. It would seem she was banned from the D exp forum for reporting this.


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDEQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fforum4.aimoo.com%2Fmadeleinemccanncontroversy%2FIndividual-Topics%2FBroken-Larynx-1-2159760.html&ei=MMdbVMPdLZPSaMj-goAK&usg=AFQjCNFCYaXTOTrV-i8m2AP3VM2y5mvZBA&sig2=Nhy02byIVEyq_8iQv1WzbA&bvm=bv.78677474,d.d2s
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Post  Guest on Fri 07 Nov 2014, 11:27 am

So was Alsabella, although she was later allowed back in.

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Post  chirpyinsect on Fri 07 Nov 2014, 11:34 am

Lots of interesting stuff on 3A `s about hyoid bones.

SEARCHING FOR THE TRUTH ABOUT MADELEINE
http://3as.madeleinemccann.org/viewtopic.php?p=294079&sid...

Can`t do hyperlink but c and p into browser. Too long to post but here is a snip.


Deleted.  Speculation which may be libellous ...link there if people want to read.
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Post  dogs don't lie on Thu 27 Nov 2014, 8:07 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbaVSa_-HXQ

New video, didn't know where to put it, if wrong just remove.

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Post  chirpyinsect on Thu 27 Nov 2014, 1:55 pm

dogs don't lie wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbaVSa_-HXQ

New video, didn't know where to put it, if wrong just remove.

Thanks for the link DDL. I felt it didn`t really explain it too well as there was no narrative and the pieces of "evidence" were quite disjointed. However it was very interesting to see how other people have read the situation.
Shame he didn`t get RD Hall correct. He called him RD Hart.
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