Matt Oldfield and his checks

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Post  Châtelaine on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 3:32 pm

Those are difficult questions, I have been asking myself for almost 10 years now, and am hesitant to reply on-line. There's something rotten in the State of Denmark ...
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Post  What's_up_doc? on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 3:32 pm

Good question Ferrino. I think it's action stations, that's my opinion. JT and RoB had a baby monitor which they said their daughter would communicate with them through, so the whole scenario looks staged to me.

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Post  Châtelaine on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 3:47 pm

Shall we say, the whole evening was staged?

KM accepting MO to check on her children, whereas he actually didn't know them well. Imagine him going into the apartment, they wake up and start crying and cannot be comforted by someone they don't know.
He'd have to rush back to Tapas to get GM or KM to get them quiet again. What a waste of time that would have been. On top, MO describes the apartment with the wrong colour of curtains, the wrong shape of table and with a non-existing book-shelf ... I know, this isn't new, but it should be reminded from time to time.
ETA, of course there was no danger for the children waking up and be frightened by a "stranger".
Madeleine was already "gone" and the twins were heavily sedated. IMO, of course.
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Post  Heisenburg on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 3:52 pm

Châtelaine wrote:Shall we say, the whole evening was staged?

KM accepting MO to check on her children, whereas he actually didn't know them well. Imagine him going into the apartment, they wake up and start crying and cannot be comforted by someone they don't know.
He'd have to rush back to Tapas to get GM or KM to get them quiet again. What a waste of time that would have been. On top, MO describes the apartment with the wrong colour of curtains, the wrong shape of table and with a non-existing book-shelf ... I know, this isn't new, but it should be reminded from time to time.
ETA, of course there was no danger for the children waking up and be frightened by a "stranger".
Madeleine was already "gone" and the twins were heavily sedated. IMO, of course.

MO checked but didn't,
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Post  Freedom on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 3:53 pm

Have you omitted the words "see Madeleine", Heisenburg?
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Post  Ferrino on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 3:55 pm

@Châtelaine Let's hope Heaven will direct it...I know how you feel about not wanting to say certain things in this case.

@What's_up_doc? They made a point of saying their monitor 'didn't reach', and even described waving it above their heads. When people tell lies they tend to elaborate and add unnecessary details..

The whole thing makes little sense when you consider that Gerry claims they checked every thirty minutes on previous nights. Why, if it was so regimented before, is there this muddle of musical chairs on the 3rd?

I sometimes wonder if Matt was perhaps not in the loop until his check, at which point he became implicated. I don't have any particular reason for thinking this, it's just my feeling that Matt was duped and everyone was mentioning his case in England as a way to affect him and keep him quiet. He may have known there was an incident with Maddie, but not that she expired/was gone. Matt is no longer with Rachael, though he has some Tapas on FB.
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Post  Heisenburg on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 4:00 pm

Freedom wrote:Have you omitted the words "see Madeleine", Heisenburg?

Yes and no.
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Post  What's_up_doc? on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 5:00 pm

Well we are in agreement about Matt possibly not being in the loop Ferrino, I tend to think he was duped because KM stood up at the same time as Matt and Russell, which I think was deliberately timed because she didn't want to go and I think good manners would have been enough for Matt to offer as he was only going next door. Maybe he was meant to discover Madeleine had gone but things didn't go to plan. I would like to see the seating plan to see if KM was close to MO. I thought the monitor only just reached? I'm a bit rusty so might be wrong on that!

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Post  Ferrino on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 5:27 pm

Yes, when you look at it, Matt and Rachael are the only ones on the night who are genuinely checking every 30 minutes. Though, in his May 10th he (Matt) says that they checked every 15 minutes. Between 21:30 and 22:00 noone is checking, only Russell is away until he tags out with Jane. It seems obvious to me that Matt was given a timeline and it doesn't work.

' 00.46.17 4078 'Was it during those sort of times where you got to know Gerry and Kate a little bit more''

Reply 'Predominantly those, because that's when we saw them most, I mean, it'd be sort of a good hour. And the awful thing was that Madeleine always used to say 'Oh come on be a monster, be a monster, chase me' and, you know, and you think, you know, there really are, you know, it was all pretend at that point, but of course, erm, not as it turned out that, you know, the fact that she said that was, erm. But, you know, it was all, you know, fun, the children running round and then they'd all jump on Dave or jump on Gerry, it was all, you know, they got on great, there was a sort of good range of ages so they had enough people to play with, yeah, it was great, they loved it, running around'.'

Matthew is one of the few who seems to be genuinely remembering warm memories of a child. Much more genuine than David Payne's offering and Kate's 'shes lovely'.
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Post  chirpyinsect on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 5:40 pm

What's_up_doc? wrote:Well we are in agreement about Matt possibly not being in the loop Ferrino, I tend to think he was duped because KM stood up at the same time as Matt and Russell, which I think was deliberately timed because she didn't want to go and I think good manners would have been enough for Matt to offer as he was only going next door. Maybe he was meant to discover Madeleine had gone but things didn't go to plan. I would like to see the seating plan to see if KM was close to MO. I thought the monitor only just reached? I'm a bit rusty so might be wrong on that!

In my opinion the whole shamozzle on "the night" is fabricated so I would take Kate standing up at the same time as set dressing. They had to come up with a reason why Kate didn't go at 9.30. Maybe the earlier alarm is being glossed over here.
This bit is my interpretation of how it could have gone.

The timing was set for 9.30 and Kate actually did her "check" but there was a problem so the whole thing had to be reset.
We forget that the only people saying MO offered to check at 9.30 are TM. So they came up with slotting Matt in there who had nothing bad to report which was to help any claims that Kate actually raised an alarm at 9.30. Invented to look like she couldn't have because it was Matt who went.


Last edited by chirpyinsect on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 5:41 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : for my dreadful typos)

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Post  What's_up_doc? on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 5:48 pm

Ferrino wrote: "Matthew is one of the few who seems to be genuinely remembering warm memories of a child. Much more genuine than David Payne's offering and Kate's 'shes lovely."




That's a very thoughtful observation Ferrino. I have only read the statements and haven't watched the recordings but MO stood out for me as giving a more sensitive account. David Payne is too vanilla and Fiona Payne sounds bored by the whole process, which struck me as particularly callous. Matt seems far more sympathetic as a character, IMO.


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Post  Helenmeg on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 8:43 pm

Yes - it makes me remember that photo of MATT when he stands behind Kate with his hands on her shoulders (from behind)
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Post  poster on Mon 09 Jul 2018, 12:05 pm

I am reasonably confident that Matt's 9.30pm check was to check on the twins' breathing. The check may not have happened in quite the way described and might have been at a different time but in his rogatory he notes that he saw the twins breathing. This has to be break-leak, imo, because in a 'normal' scenario you would assume that the twins - apparently perfectly healthy and not ill that week - would be breathing and the check would be to see if they were sleeping peacefully and not waking and crying. Why would there be a need to check that they were breathing, unless Matt was privy to information that there might be a problem with their breathing?

Notice how many times Matt mentions breathing or chests moving - I counted at least six times. This line of questioning produces an interesting answer from Matt. He confirms he was there to check the twins breathing and he didn't clock it as abnormal:

4078 'Is there anything else, that you smelt, could you smell anything''

Reply 'No, no, we've talked about that before, I didn't smell anything, I mean, I could see the children breathing, but I didn't clock it as abnormal, erm, it'd be completely to speculate to say whether their breathing was fast or, I couldn't say, I mean, they were breathing and that's what, you know, and that was what I was there to check, erm, no, no funny sort of smells, no sort of funny draughts, no sort of funny sort of noises, no, erm, nothing that I can think of for that. I mean, it was a complete just a shock out of the blue when, you know, I'd been in and then suddenly somebody's saying Madeleine's missing, there was nothing that made me think, oh'.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

This then, of course, begs the question that someone might not be breathing at that particular time, and the only logical person that might  be would be Madeleine. In the context of a child who went missing in very suspicious circumstances and who Dr Amaral believes died that week, this is a logical conclusion. If Madeleine died that week by definition she stopped breathing. The question is then: 'when did Madeleine stop breathing?' Matt claims he did not see Madeleine at 9.30pm.  He has told us that he was there to check the twins breathing. Why didn't he check Madeleine's breathing too?  Had she already stopped breathing by then? And was she no longer even in the room? Which would account for why he didn't see her.

Dr Amaral has stated that he is sure sedation played a part and he thinks all three children were sedated that week. The parents themselves state that the abductor might have drugged Madeleine and also the twins as well.

I think, given the above, it is fairly safe to conclude that sedation is indeed a feature of the case. Sedation does of course affect breathing and the stronger the dose the more difficult to rouse the person will become.

I think Madeleine was eventually over-sedated to the point where she stopped breathing. I am very suspicious indeed about what happened to her from Monday morning onwards - there are no reliable eye-witness accounts and Kate's diary is hardly reassuring. The nannies, imo, were either confused as to which child was Madeleine and/or were 'lent on' by TM.

I was looking through Matt's rogatory for some further nuggets of information and this immediately struck me:

As far as he [MO] is concerned, he wishes at this time to add that, in conversation with DP on a date he does not recall with certainty but likely to have been on 7 or 8 May, he [DP] confided in him that that, at that time, KH had been particularly reluctant about coming to Portugal because she had had a bad feeling [presentiment] about the children of the group and the non-existence of the 'baby sitting' service.

I wonder why Matt included this? Kate herself does admit she had reservations about the trip. I am of the opinion that Kate was not on the same page as GM and maybe even DP. Is it possible that Kate got wind of something prior to the trip? I think she did. Matt goes into quite some detail about how they wanted their apartments close together so they could do their own checking. What a song and dance they all made about this. Surely this is an integral part of the 'drama' - they all go on and on and on and on about it ad nauseum. Why not just hire a couple of babysitters and relax? But of course if there had been a babysitter in the apartment then the 'abduction' could not have happened.

As I have said before, I think this has all the hallmarks of a pre-planned hoax which went wrong that week. The gruesome twosome really are not the brightest bulbs, imo!

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-10MAY.htm
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Post  froggy on Mon 09 Jul 2018, 12:29 pm

I am not at all sure about any sort of hoax, but I do think that something that involved Madeleine and required the adjacency of apartments was pre-planned and it all went horribly wrong.
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Post  poster on Mon 09 Jul 2018, 3:59 pm

froggy wrote:I am not at all sure about any sort of hoax, but I do think that something that involved Madeleine and required the adjacency of apartments was pre-planned and it all went horribly wrong.

Yes - I do believe something was pre-planned.

It is interesting that in Matt's incredibly detailed description of what they did and where they went on Thursday evening after Madeleine was reported missing, he at one point rambles on about how they got to a quiet rather deserted place and '......you know, looking for sort of like funny parked cars, or, erm, you know......'.

This is a very odd addition to the description. Why would they be looking for 'sort of like funny parked cars'? If Madeleine had been abducted, surely the abductor/s would not have parked in an area close by (albeit deserted) in the hours after the alleged abduction? I mean, that would be madness. You would expect any getaway car with Madeleine in it to have long gone out of the area.

Russell also gives a very detailed, if rambling, description of what he did and where he went after the alarm was called on that Thursday evening.

He talks in some detail about how a car came up with a person he thinks was Dan (the tennis coach) inside and at least one other occupant. I'm unable to cut and paste on the computer I'm using but I find it very odd that he could not be sure it was Dan, who had only hours before been in charge of the men's social tennis. According to at least one of his statements, Dan spotted him (Russell) in the car headlights and stopped to talk to him. Dan told him that he would go and search in the car as they had the headlights Russell is not sure whether Dan was in the driving seat or the passenger seat. I think this is odd as well. If Dan stopped the car to speak to Russell, having spotted him in the headlights of the car, surely Russell would recall whether or not Dan was driving? I would have thought he would also make a note of who was in the car with Dan - whether he recognised the person or not. And also how many people had been in the car.

Worth reading the relevant sections of Russell's rogatories. There does appear to be some sensitivity around this but I wonder why Russell mentioned it at all?



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Post  poster on Fri 04 Jan 2019, 4:33 pm

This is an interesting snippet from Kate's book (page 123).

Kate is describing how a week after Madeleine went missing they were called back to the police station at Portimao, 'along with a couple of our friends'.

While Kate sits waiting for eight hours and is told to come back the next day, she writes how Gerry was there for thirteen hours.

"When he finally returned to the apartment he related how Matt had been almost hysterical during his interview. Gerry had heard him shouting and crying. Apparently, it had been put to Matt that he'd handed Madeleine out through the window to a third party. It was like something out of Life on Mars."

So was Matt's role at around 9.30pm not just to check that the twins were breathing but also to pass Madeleine out of the window of the apartment?  It's interesting that Kate chose to write this in her book and also to share the information that Matt had been shouting and crying. This is hugely incriminating, surely?

But then Kate's book of 'the truth' has always been a prime exhibit.
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Post  poster on Fri 04 Jan 2019, 4:36 pm

If this was the case then would the third party have been Jane Tanner? She was seen hanging around outside the apartment I do believe (purple top?)

Also, if Matt really had gone into the bedroom to carry out this task, then this might account for why he insists he didn't go into the bedroom at all, but merely stood at the door? This always struck me as a strange thing to say and Matt, Gerry and Kate go on and on about this.

In the creepy 'Madeleine was Here' reconstruction Matt even demonstrates how he stood at the door so was unable to see whether Madeleine was in her bed.

And of course if Matt did have a much bigger role to play during that 9.30pm 'check' then it is obvious why he would wish to claim he never went into the room and never saw Madeleine either.

All theoretical as always. But why on earth did Kate herself volunteer this information?
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Post  poster on Fri 04 Jan 2019, 10:50 pm

In Kate's book she claims that Matt's listening check on apartment 5A was at 9.30pm. However in Matt's rogatory he claims that he did two checks - one at just after 9pm when he stands outside the children's bedroom window - and another at around 9.30pm when he stands at the bedroom door.

Benefiting from meeting them next to the residences, he adds that, on his own initiative, he made a 'listening check' at the bedroom window of MBM and the twins at 21h05. That he limited himself to approach the bedroom window on the outside of the apartment to check if the children were crying or awake.
He adds to have not heard any noise nor perceived anything out of the ordinary. He went on to do the same check at the bedroom windows of his daughter and ROB's daughters.


Some minutes later, at 21h25, the deponent went to his apartment to do a further check, he having done that together with ROB who intended to do the same with his two girls.

At that time he offered [made himself available] to perform a check in the bedroom of MBM.


Could one possibly theorize that the shutters were opened at just after 9pm and then Madeleine was removed at around 9.30pm?



http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-10MAY.htm
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Post  poster on Sat 05 Jan 2019, 9:56 am

In any event, Thursday was a mighty busy day in one way and another. The McCanns, in particular Gerry. play tennis for hours. Jez and Bridget join the McCanns at the poolside at lunchtime near the time of the famous 'last photo'. David Payne makes a late afternoon/early evening to the apartment and sees all three children looking like angels. Matt does not one but two checks on apartment 5A. One at just after 9pm when he listens outside the apartment. Surely he would have bumped into Gerry, Jez and Jane at around this time as they are all outside apartment 5A then, not to mention Tanner-man. A positive crowd of people outside apartment 5A at the time that Tanner-man struck, but only Jane saw him? How odd. This is, of course, just after Gerry has gone into the children's bedroom - the only time that holiday apparently - and admired Madeleine sleeping thinking how beautiful she was.

Then Matt does another check at around 9.30pm when he goes into the apartment and stands at the bedroom door and sees the twins breathing but does not enter the apartment so does not see Madeleine, allegedly.

In the early hours of Friday morning it is Matt who visits Jez and Bridget's apartment in the company of OC resort manager Nigel and tells the couple that Madeleine has been abducted and that Gerry saw him earlier and wondered if he had seen anything. To which Jez responds: 'You're joking!'

Matt was certainly very busy that day.



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Post  Freedom on Sat 05 Jan 2019, 10:13 am

I do admire your devotion to duty, poster, with your detailed knowledge of Kate's book. There's no way that I could read it as I would be "hearing" Kate's whining voice as I did so.

I don't remember ever hearing before that Jes and Bridget were at the poolside on that fateful day?

P.S. Yes it is mentioned in that dreadful article - this particular paragraph is straight out of a Mills & Boon novel. It would be interesting to know at precisely what time they were supposedly there. Doesn't Kate's account of the day in her own novel allow for no time for her to have been there at all?

Jes and Gerry were playing on the next court. Afterwards, we sat by the pool and Gerry and Kate talked enthusiastically to the tennis coach about the following day's tournament. We watched them idly - they had a lot of time for people, they listened. Then Gerry stood up and began showing Kate his new tennis stroke. She looked at him and smiled. "You wouldn't be interested if I talked about my tennis like that," Jes said to me. We watched them some more. Kate was calm, still, quietly beautiful; Gerry was confident, proud, silly, strong. She watched his boyish demonstration with great seriousness and patience. That was the last time I saw them that day. Jes saw Gerry that night.
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Post  unreorganised on Sat 05 Jan 2019, 2:56 pm

Freedom wrote:

Jes and Gerry were playing on the next court. Afterwards, we sat by the pool and Gerry and Kate talked enthusiastically to the tennis coach about the following day's tournament. We watched them idly - they had a lot of time for people, they listened. Then Gerry stood up and began showing Kate his new tennis stroke. She looked at him and smiled. "You wouldn't be interested if I talked about my tennis like that," Jes said to me. We watched them some more. Kate was calm, still, quietly beautiful; Gerry was confident, proud, silly, strong. She watched his boyish demonstration with great seriousness and patience. That was the last time I saw them that day. Jes saw Gerry that night.

This isn't right at all, is it? Just so, so, so, so, so very wrong.

I hope for her sake she was at least well paid for it.
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Post  Freedom on Sat 05 Jan 2019, 6:27 pm

I wonder if, in view of the doubts that the "last photo" could have been taken on that day, the tennis coach who was supposedly at the pool ever confirmed that he was.

As far as I know, there are no independent witnesses to the McCanns being there then.

Bridget's drivel can't be taken seriously.
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Post  poster on Sun 06 Jan 2019, 3:55 pm

Freedom wrote:I do admire your devotion to duty, poster, with your detailed knowledge of Kate's book. There's no way that I could read it as I would be "hearing" Kate's whining voice as I did so.

I don't remember ever hearing before that Jes and Bridget were at the poolside on that fateful day?

P.S. Yes it is mentioned in that dreadful article - this particular paragraph is straight out of a Mills & Boon novel. It would be interesting to know at precisely what time they were supposedly there. Doesn't Kate's account of the day in her own novel allow for no time for her to have been there at all?

Jes and Gerry were playing on the next court. Afterwards, we sat by the pool and Gerry and Kate talked enthusiastically to the tennis coach about the following day's tournament. We watched them idly - they had a lot of time for people, they listened. Then Gerry stood up and began showing Kate his new tennis stroke. She looked at him and smiled. "You wouldn't be interested if I talked about my tennis like that," Jes said to me. We watched them some more. Kate was calm, still, quietly beautiful; Gerry was confident, proud, silly, strong. She watched his boyish demonstration with great seriousness and patience. That was the last time I saw them that day. Jes saw Gerry that night.

I really should get a life but Kate's book is such a fascinating 'exhibit'. I had no idea when I first flicked through it how richly informative it is, in its own way. It's incredible, really, that she was advised to publish it. IMO Bridget and Jez must be pretty good friends with the couple if they are prepared to make public that they sat with Gerry and Kate by the pool at around the time of the last photo. They must realize how contentious that photo was and how critical that time was in terms of Madeleine's disappearance. And of course this provides the McCanns with an alibi for 'the last photo'.

So that's an alibi from Bridget for Thursday lunchtime - 'last photo' time - and then an alibi from Jez for Thursday evening shortly after 9pm. The exact time that it is claimed that Madeleine was probably abducted by Tanner-man. They must feel very sure of the McCanns' innocence to be so helpful, imo.

Yet, despite this, the couple sleep right through the alarm being raised about a child missing later that evening and have to be woken from their slumbers by Matt in the company of OC resort manager in the early house of Friday morning. Despite the fact that it is only a few hours since Madeleine was discovered missing - still within the first few 'golden hours' when Madeleine was most likely to be found - the couple don't bother to help look for her but go back to sleep. Why didn't one of them join the searches if they believed the McCann's version of events? They could have helped find 'the abductor'. Both knew what Madeleine looked like, presumably, as she was in the creche with their daughter and Jez had spent the evening wheeling his baby around the resort in his pram so could easily have seen something suspicious. Surely Gerry should have been hammering down their door shortly after 10pm?

All very peculiar!
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Post  poster on Mon 28 Oct 2019, 10:56 am

An acquaintance has been under the treatment of Matt Oldfield. I only found out when he mentioned endocrinology and my ears pricked up as I knew he lived near the area/s where Oldfield practises medicine.

A bit of gentle probing revealed it was indeed Oldfield of Tapas infamy. They (he and his partner) appeared to not realize that he was/is connected with the Madeleine McCann case but I'm not so sure - they have wide business/social networks some of them medical.  They gave me no opportunity to raise my total incredulity about the official version of events.

However one thing that did emerge was that the friend raised the possibility of there having been some sort of medical conference going on at Ocean Club that week. He even asked me if I thought that was the case (perhaps because one of my parents was a doctor he thought I might be privy to some 'insider' information?)

Why did he make this comment? I think he was 'fishing'. He asked several times if I was a friend of Oldfield and I made it clear I only knew about Oldfield because of the Madeleine McCann case and publicity.

These people are being protected within the medical community, imo, as well as at higher levels. But no-one will talk. Infuriating. What really happened? (The police know, imo).

He did, however, say that there was no way she would still be alive, but seemed to be going along with the 'trafficking' line which is effectively what the parents said I think.

Just a little anecdote to share. I wonder what the current state of play is regarding the case? It all seems very quiet.
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Post  Freedom on Mon 28 Oct 2019, 11:14 am

It's always interesting to hear of encounters with the McCanns or their friends.

There certainly has been speculation about a medical conference being held there.

Here's a link to a topic about the number of medical professionals who just happened to be there.

http://maddiemccannmystery.forumotion.co.uk/t2211-medical-professionals-at-oc?highlight=medical
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