Matt Oldfield and his checks

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Re: Matt Oldfield and his checks

Post  Châtelaine on Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:32 pm

Those are difficult questions, I have been asking myself for almost 10 years now, and am hesitant to reply on-line. There's something rotten in the State of Denmark ...
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Re: Matt Oldfield and his checks

Post  What's_up_doc? on Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:32 pm

Good question Ferrino. I think it's action stations, that's my opinion. JT and RoB had a baby monitor which they said their daughter would communicate with them through, so the whole scenario looks staged to me.

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Re: Matt Oldfield and his checks

Post  Châtelaine on Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:47 pm

Shall we say, the whole evening was staged?

KM accepting MO to check on her children, whereas he actually didn't know them well. Imagine him going into the apartment, they wake up and start crying and cannot be comforted by someone they don't know.
He'd have to rush back to Tapas to get GM or KM to get them quiet again. What a waste of time that would have been. On top, MO describes the apartment with the wrong colour of curtains, the wrong shape of table and with a non-existing book-shelf ... I know, this isn't new, but it should be reminded from time to time.
ETA, of course there was no danger for the children waking up and be frightened by a "stranger".
Madeleine was already "gone" and the twins were heavily sedated. IMO, of course.
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Re: Matt Oldfield and his checks

Post  Heisenburg on Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:52 pm

Châtelaine wrote:Shall we say, the whole evening was staged?

KM accepting MO to check on her children, whereas he actually didn't know them well. Imagine him going into the apartment, they wake up and start crying and cannot be comforted by someone they don't know.
He'd have to rush back to Tapas to get GM or KM to get them quiet again. What a waste of time that would have been. On top, MO describes the apartment with the wrong colour of curtains, the wrong shape of table and with a non-existing book-shelf ... I know, this isn't new, but it should be reminded from time to time.
ETA, of course there was no danger for the children waking up and be frightened by a "stranger".
Madeleine was already "gone" and the twins were heavily sedated. IMO, of course.

MO checked but didn't,
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Re: Matt Oldfield and his checks

Post  Freedom on Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:53 pm

Have you omitted the words "see Madeleine", Heisenburg?
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Re: Matt Oldfield and his checks

Post  Ferrino on Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:55 pm

@Châtelaine Let's hope Heaven will direct it...I know how you feel about not wanting to say certain things in this case.

@What's_up_doc? They made a point of saying their monitor 'didn't reach', and even described waving it above their heads. When people tell lies they tend to elaborate and add unnecessary details..

The whole thing makes little sense when you consider that Gerry claims they checked every thirty minutes on previous nights. Why, if it was so regimented before, is there this muddle of musical chairs on the 3rd?

I sometimes wonder if Matt was perhaps not in the loop until his check, at which point he became implicated. I don't have any particular reason for thinking this, it's just my feeling that Matt was duped and everyone was mentioning his case in England as a way to affect him and keep him quiet. He may have known there was an incident with Maddie, but not that she expired/was gone. Matt is no longer with Rachael, though he has some Tapas on FB.
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Re: Matt Oldfield and his checks

Post  Heisenburg on Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:00 pm

Freedom wrote:Have you omitted the words "see Madeleine", Heisenburg?

Yes and no.
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Re: Matt Oldfield and his checks

Post  What's_up_doc? on Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:00 pm

Well we are in agreement about Matt possibly not being in the loop Ferrino, I tend to think he was duped because KM stood up at the same time as Matt and Russell, which I think was deliberately timed because she didn't want to go and I think good manners would have been enough for Matt to offer as he was only going next door. Maybe he was meant to discover Madeleine had gone but things didn't go to plan. I would like to see the seating plan to see if KM was close to MO. I thought the monitor only just reached? I'm a bit rusty so might be wrong on that!

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Re: Matt Oldfield and his checks

Post  Ferrino on Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:27 pm

Yes, when you look at it, Matt and Rachael are the only ones on the night who are genuinely checking every 30 minutes. Though, in his May 10th he (Matt) says that they checked every 15 minutes. Between 21:30 and 22:00 noone is checking, only Russell is away until he tags out with Jane. It seems obvious to me that Matt was given a timeline and it doesn't work.

' 00.46.17 4078 'Was it during those sort of times where you got to know Gerry and Kate a little bit more''

Reply 'Predominantly those, because that's when we saw them most, I mean, it'd be sort of a good hour. And the awful thing was that Madeleine always used to say 'Oh come on be a monster, be a monster, chase me' and, you know, and you think, you know, there really are, you know, it was all pretend at that point, but of course, erm, not as it turned out that, you know, the fact that she said that was, erm. But, you know, it was all, you know, fun, the children running round and then they'd all jump on Dave or jump on Gerry, it was all, you know, they got on great, there was a sort of good range of ages so they had enough people to play with, yeah, it was great, they loved it, running around'.'

Matthew is one of the few who seems to be genuinely remembering warm memories of a child. Much more genuine than David Payne's offering and Kate's 'shes lovely'.
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Re: Matt Oldfield and his checks

Post  chirpyinsect on Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:40 pm

What's_up_doc? wrote:Well we are in agreement about Matt possibly not being in the loop Ferrino, I tend to think he was duped because KM stood up at the same time as Matt and Russell, which I think was deliberately timed because she didn't want to go and I think good manners would have been enough for Matt to offer as he was only going next door. Maybe he was meant to discover Madeleine had gone but things didn't go to plan. I would like to see the seating plan to see if KM was close to MO. I thought the monitor only just reached? I'm a bit rusty so might be wrong on that!

In my opinion the whole shamozzle on "the night" is fabricated so I would take Kate standing up at the same time as set dressing. They had to come up with a reason why Kate didn't go at 9.30. Maybe the earlier alarm is being glossed over here.
This bit is my interpretation of how it could have gone.

The timing was set for 9.30 and Kate actually did her "check" but there was a problem so the whole thing had to be reset.
We forget that the only people saying MO offered to check at 9.30 are TM. So they came up with slotting Matt in there who had nothing bad to report which was to help any claims that Kate actually raised an alarm at 9.30. Invented to look like she couldn't have because it was Matt who went.


Last edited by chirpyinsect on Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:41 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : for my dreadful typos)

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Re: Matt Oldfield and his checks

Post  What's_up_doc? on Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:48 pm

Ferrino wrote: "Matthew is one of the few who seems to be genuinely remembering warm memories of a child. Much more genuine than David Payne's offering and Kate's 'shes lovely."




That's a very thoughtful observation Ferrino. I have only read the statements and haven't watched the recordings but MO stood out for me as giving a more sensitive account. David Payne is too vanilla and Fiona Payne sounds bored by the whole process, which struck me as particularly callous. Matt seems far more sympathetic as a character, IMO.


Last edited by What's_up_doc? on Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:49 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : font sizes irregular)

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Re: Matt Oldfield and his checks

Post  Helenmeg on Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:43 pm

Yes - it makes me remember that photo of MATT when he stands behind Kate with his hands on her shoulders (from behind)
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Re: Matt Oldfield and his checks

Post  poster on Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:05 pm

I am reasonably confident that Matt's 9.30pm check was to check on the twins' breathing. The check may not have happened in quite the way described and might have been at a different time but in his rogatory he notes that he saw the twins breathing. This has to be break-leak, imo, because in a 'normal' scenario you would assume that the twins - apparently perfectly healthy and not ill that week - would be breathing and the check would be to see if they were sleeping peacefully and not waking and crying. Why would there be a need to check that they were breathing, unless Matt was privy to information that there might be a problem with their breathing?

Notice how many times Matt mentions breathing or chests moving - I counted at least six times. This line of questioning produces an interesting answer from Matt. He confirms he was there to check the twins breathing and he didn't clock it as abnormal:

4078 'Is there anything else, that you smelt, could you smell anything''

Reply 'No, no, we've talked about that before, I didn't smell anything, I mean, I could see the children breathing, but I didn't clock it as abnormal, erm, it'd be completely to speculate to say whether their breathing was fast or, I couldn't say, I mean, they were breathing and that's what, you know, and that was what I was there to check, erm, no, no funny sort of smells, no sort of funny draughts, no sort of funny sort of noises, no, erm, nothing that I can think of for that. I mean, it was a complete just a shock out of the blue when, you know, I'd been in and then suddenly somebody's saying Madeleine's missing, there was nothing that made me think, oh'.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

This then, of course, begs the question that someone might not be breathing at that particular time, and the only logical person that might  be would be Madeleine. In the context of a child who went missing in very suspicious circumstances and who Dr Amaral believes died that week, this is a logical conclusion. If Madeleine died that week by definition she stopped breathing. The question is then: 'when did Madeleine stop breathing?' Matt claims he did not see Madeleine at 9.30pm.  He has told us that he was there to check the twins breathing. Why didn't he check Madeleine's breathing too?  Had she already stopped breathing by then? And was she no longer even in the room? Which would account for why he didn't see her.

Dr Amaral has stated that he is sure sedation played a part and he thinks all three children were sedated that week. The parents themselves state that the abductor might have drugged Madeleine and also the twins as well.

I think, given the above, it is fairly safe to conclude that sedation is indeed a feature of the case. Sedation does of course affect breathing and the stronger the dose the more difficult to rouse the person will become.

I think Madeleine was eventually over-sedated to the point where she stopped breathing. I am very suspicious indeed about what happened to her from Monday morning onwards - there are no reliable eye-witness accounts and Kate's diary is hardly reassuring. The nannies, imo, were either confused as to which child was Madeleine and/or were 'lent on' by TM.

I was looking through Matt's rogatory for some further nuggets of information and this immediately struck me:

As far as he [MO] is concerned, he wishes at this time to add that, in conversation with DP on a date he does not recall with certainty but likely to have been on 7 or 8 May, he [DP] confided in him that that, at that time, KH had been particularly reluctant about coming to Portugal because she had had a bad feeling [presentiment] about the children of the group and the non-existence of the 'baby sitting' service.

I wonder why Matt included this? Kate herself does admit she had reservations about the trip. I am of the opinion that Kate was not on the same page as GM and maybe even DP. Is it possible that Kate got wind of something prior to the trip? I think she did. Matt goes into quite some detail about how they wanted their apartments close together so they could do their own checking. What a song and dance they all made about this. Surely this is an integral part of the 'drama' - they all go on and on and on and on about it ad nauseum. Why not just hire a couple of babysitters and relax? But of course if there had been a babysitter in the apartment then the 'abduction' could not have happened.

As I have said before, I think this has all the hallmarks of a pre-planned hoax which went wrong that week. The gruesome twosome really are not the brightest bulbs, imo!

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-10MAY.htm
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Re: Matt Oldfield and his checks

Post  froggy on Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:29 pm

I am not at all sure about any sort of hoax, but I do think that something that involved Madeleine and required the adjacency of apartments was pre-planned and it all went horribly wrong.
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Re: Matt Oldfield and his checks

Post  poster on Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:59 pm

froggy wrote:I am not at all sure about any sort of hoax, but I do think that something that involved Madeleine and required the adjacency of apartments was pre-planned and it all went horribly wrong.

Yes - I do believe something was pre-planned.

It is interesting that in Matt's incredibly detailed description of what they did and where they went on Thursday evening after Madeleine was reported missing, he at one point rambles on about how they got to a quiet rather deserted place and '......you know, looking for sort of like funny parked cars, or, erm, you know......'.

This is a very odd addition to the description. Why would they be looking for 'sort of like funny parked cars'? If Madeleine had been abducted, surely the abductor/s would not have parked in an area close by (albeit deserted) in the hours after the alleged abduction? I mean, that would be madness. You would expect any getaway car with Madeleine in it to have long gone out of the area.

Russell also gives a very detailed, if rambling, description of what he did and where he went after the alarm was called on that Thursday evening.

He talks in some detail about how a car came up with a person he thinks was Dan (the tennis coach) inside and at least one other occupant. I'm unable to cut and paste on the computer I'm using but I find it very odd that he could not be sure it was Dan, who had only hours before been in charge of the men's social tennis. According to at least one of his statements, Dan spotted him (Russell) in the car headlights and stopped to talk to him. Dan told him that he would go and search in the car as they had the headlights Russell is not sure whether Dan was in the driving seat or the passenger seat. I think this is odd as well. If Dan stopped the car to speak to Russell, having spotted him in the headlights of the car, surely Russell would recall whether or not Dan was driving? I would have thought he would also make a note of who was in the car with Dan - whether he recognised the person or not. And also how many people had been in the car.

Worth reading the relevant sections of Russell's rogatories. There does appear to be some sensitivity around this but I wonder why Russell mentioned it at all?



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