MADELEINE McCANN MYSTERY
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Sir Cliff Richard

+21
PMR
joyce1938
Hope
Bloodhound
costello
Satsuma
Rosa canina
chirpyinsect
Heisenburg
Guinea Pig
Hellsbells
Bampots
bluebell
Walt
Mimi
AndyB
Lioned
Andrew
Châtelaine
margaret
candyfloss
25 posters

Page 4 of 6 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

Go down

Sir Cliff Richard - Page 4 Empty Re: Sir Cliff Richard

Post  candyfloss Sat 03 Sep 2016, 6:50 pm

Satsuma wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:There wasn't enough evidence for the Crown to prosecute.

Put more correctly, and without the CPS  spin, there was no evidence. If there had been, it would have led to a prosecution.  You can't have "not enough" evidence or "insufficient" evidence. Evidence is evidence

What they really mean is that they found  nothing that implied, let alone proved, Cliff's guilt. I wish they would be honest enough to say that

Don't police get the 'evidence' then the CPS gets involved to see if they can prosecute i.e. if there is enough.  The CPS would not get involved unless the police thought they had some sort of case/evidence surely?  I thought that is how it worked, perhaps I am wrong then. scratch

_________________
Sir Cliff Richard - Page 4 20ztic6  
 Sir Cliff Richard - Page 4 Lines-animals-539529  

Sometimes you will never know the true value of a moment until it becomes a memory.......... Dr Seuss
candyfloss
candyfloss
Admin

Posts : 12561
Join date : 2014-08-18
Age : 71

Back to top Go down

Sir Cliff Richard - Page 4 Empty Re: Sir Cliff Richard

Post  Satsuma Sat 03 Sep 2016, 7:13 pm

Yes that's exactly how it works, candyfloss, and it appears that the police handed the CPS a great big file full of nothing but unsubstantiated accusations. Insufficient evidence = no evidence
Satsuma
Satsuma

Posts : 571
Join date : 2016-03-15

Back to top Go down

Sir Cliff Richard - Page 4 Empty Re: Sir Cliff Richard

Post  Châtelaine Sat 03 Sep 2016, 8:33 pm

" Insufficient evidence = no evidence"
***
Let's agree to disagree & no offense meant.

Not meaning that Sir Cliff is innocent or not, but that c'est le ton qui fait la musique ...
Insufficient in my vocabulary is: there seems to be some, but not enough to be sure ...

And ... just as I indicated before, this counts [may count] for some others we've been discussing here before.
Châtelaine
Châtelaine

Posts : 2496
Join date : 2014-08-27
Location : France

Back to top Go down

Sir Cliff Richard - Page 4 Empty Re: Sir Cliff Richard

Post  Heisenburg Sat 03 Sep 2016, 9:08 pm

Satsuma wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:There wasn't enough evidence for the Crown to prosecute.

Put more correctly, and without the CPS  spin, there was no evidence. If there had been, it would have led to a prosecution.  You can't have "not enough" evidence or "insufficient" evidence. Evidence is evidence

What they really mean is that they found  nothing that implied, let alone proved, Cliff's "guilt". I wish they would be honest enough to say that

Like with Janner and Saville and Smith,easy isn't it,Glitter,Harris,Hall,Clifford not a title amongst them some how go down,titled people don't.
Heisenburg
Heisenburg

Posts : 1876
Join date : 2016-01-11

Back to top Go down

Sir Cliff Richard - Page 4 Empty Re:Sir Cliff Richard: Police inquiry updates.

Post  costello Sat 03 Sep 2016, 9:21 pm

Heisenburg wrote:
Satsuma wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:There wasn't enough evidence for the Crown to prosecute.

Put more correctly, and without the CPS  spin, there was no evidence. If there had been, it would have led to a prosecution.  You can't have "not enough" evidence or "insufficient" evidence. Evidence is evidence

What they really mean is that they found  nothing that implied, let alone proved, Cliff's "guilt". I wish they would be honest enough to say that

Like with Janner and Saville and Smith,easy isn't it,Glitter,Harris,Hall,Clifford not a title amongst them some how go down,titled people don't.

Good point Heisenburg, interesting indeed....
costello
costello

Posts : 2410
Join date : 2014-08-31

Back to top Go down

Sir Cliff Richard - Page 4 Empty Re: Sir Cliff Richard

Post  Andrew Sat 03 Sep 2016, 10:43 pm

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1720620/sir-cliff-richard-vows-not-to-let-shock-sex-abuse-review-break-his-spirits/

Snipped:

It said nine men had made allegations but five of the cases did not reach the threshold necessary for them to be considered by the CPS.

What about the other 4 cases though?
Andrew
Andrew

Posts : 13074
Join date : 2014-08-29

Back to top Go down

Sir Cliff Richard - Page 4 Empty Re: Sir Cliff Richard

Post  Andrew Sat 03 Sep 2016, 10:45 pm

insufficient
ɪnsəˈfɪʃ(ə)nt

adjective
not enough; inadequate.
"there was insufficient evidence to convict him"
synonyms: inadequate, not enough, too little;
Andrew
Andrew

Posts : 13074
Join date : 2014-08-29

Back to top Go down

Sir Cliff Richard - Page 4 Empty Re: Sir Cliff Richard

Post  Andrew Fri 09 Sep 2016, 4:22 pm

Some breaking news about the Cliff on Sky. Can't copy it over though...
Andrew
Andrew

Posts : 13074
Join date : 2014-08-29

Back to top Go down

Sir Cliff Richard - Page 4 Empty Re: Sir Cliff Richard

Post  Freedom Fri 09 Sep 2016, 4:25 pm

Freedom
Freedom
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 18182
Join date : 2014-08-17
Age : 109
Location : The nearest darkened room

Back to top Go down

Sir Cliff Richard - Page 4 Empty Re: Sir Cliff Richard

Post  bluebell Fri 09 Sep 2016, 5:29 pm


A second alleged sexual abuse victim of Sir Cliff Richard has challenged a decision not to bring charges against him, prosecutors have said.
The Crown Prosecution Service said last month it was reviewing one case after a request by a male complainant, and another has now requested a review.
In June it said there was "insufficient evidence" to prosecute Sir Cliff over sex abuse claims made by four men.
A spokesman for the singer said: "Sir Cliff reaffirms his innocence."
Both cases are expected to be reviewed together, with the outcome expected this month, BBC home affairs correspondent Danny Shaw said.
Alleged victims of crimes are entitled to a review of decisions not to charge suspects under a scheme set up by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) in England and Wales in 2013.
A spokesman for Sir Cliff said: "Sir Cliff reaffirms his innocence and has every confidence the CPS will come to the right conclusion as soon as possible."
On Tuesday, in reply to a question about Sir Cliff's case, Director of Public Prosecutions Alison Saunders said reviews would be looked at within 28 days.
"We only overturn these decisions if we think that the original decision was wrong," she told the Today programme on BBC Radio 4.
"We look at it again, and it must still be that there is sufficient evidence and it's in the public interest to prosecute. It must still satisfy the tests."
The four men alleged the sex offences had taken place between 1958 and the early 1980s.
When the CPS decided not to bring charges against Sir Cliff in June the singer said he was "thrilled that the vile accusations and the resulting investigation have finally been brought to a close".


A lesson here in "don't count your chickens..... ?

_________________
The pure and simple truth is rarely pure, and never simple.        Oscar Wilde
bluebell
bluebell

Posts : 1677
Join date : 2014-09-01
Age : 106
Location : S/W UK

Back to top Go down

Sir Cliff Richard - Page 4 Empty Re: Sir Cliff Richard

Post  Andrew Fri 09 Sep 2016, 5:47 pm

No love lost between the beeb and Cliff.

Interesting that Alison got a mention. Her of going off to Portugal Re: the McCann stuff.

Needs to buck up on both fronts, imo.
Andrew
Andrew

Posts : 13074
Join date : 2014-08-29

Back to top Go down

Sir Cliff Richard - Page 4 Empty Re: Sir Cliff Richard

Post  Satsuma Fri 09 Sep 2016, 8:59 pm

Andrew wrote:insufficient
ɪnsəˈfɪʃ(ə)nt

adjective
not enough; inadequate.
"there was insufficient evidence to convict him"
synonyms: inadequate, not enough, too little;

In general terms, Chatelaine is correct to say "Insufficient in my vocabulary is: there seems to be some, but not enough to be sure ..."

but regarding evidence in crime cases,  the word "insufficient" isn't appropriate. The CPS is playing with the  English language to cover the fact that they don't have anything
if there was one piece of tangible evidence (rather than just one person's word against another)  it would be enough, as it would be in any case
so there can't be any "evidence" at all (like fingerprints on the handle of a knife in a murder case)

It's shocking that they use the word "insufficient", because it implies they think he's guilty. Bordering on libel if you ask me
Satsuma
Satsuma

Posts : 571
Join date : 2016-03-15

Back to top Go down

Sir Cliff Richard - Page 4 Empty Re: Sir Cliff Richard

Post  Andrew Sat 10 Sep 2016, 2:39 am

Deleted Andrew as we have absolutely no proof of anything just website gossip and accusations, .

As soon as Cliff is 6 ft under then all sorts will come out of the woodwork. IMO.

But probably not before.
Andrew
Andrew

Posts : 13074
Join date : 2014-08-29

Back to top Go down

Sir Cliff Richard - Page 4 Empty Re: Sir Cliff Richard

Post  Freedom Sat 10 Sep 2016, 9:55 am

That was certainly what happened with Jimmy Savile - with all the stuff that came out about him - and, more recently Clement Freud.

I'm still not convinced myself about Cliff Richard though. There have a few accusations and I feel that, if he was a serial abuser, this would have given all the others the courage to speak out.

If all the existing allegations are as believable as the roller-skating into a shop one, no wonder that none of them have been considered to be strong enough to pursue.

I thought that there would be a deluge of horror stories after the death of Lord McAlpine - who had been accused on the Internet of just about everything, including murder - but there hasn't been a peep.

It could be the same with Cliff.
Freedom
Freedom
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 18182
Join date : 2014-08-17
Age : 109
Location : The nearest darkened room

Back to top Go down

Sir Cliff Richard - Page 4 Empty Re: Sir Cliff Richard

Post  PMR Sat 10 Sep 2016, 2:23 pm

Satsuma wrote:
Andrew wrote:insufficient
ɪnsəˈfɪʃ(ə)nt

adjective
not enough; inadequate.
"there was insufficient evidence to convict him"
synonyms: inadequate, not enough, too little;

In general terms, Chatelaine is correct to say "Insufficient in my vocabulary is: there seems to be some, but not enough to be sure ..."

but regarding evidence in crime cases,  the word "insufficient" isn't appropriate. The CPS is playing with the  English language to cover the fact that they don't have anything
if there was one piece of tangible evidence (rather than just one person's word against another)  it would be enough, as it would be in any case
so there can't be any "evidence" at all (like fingerprints on the handle of a knife in a murder case)

It's shocking that they use the word "insufficient",  because it implies they think he's guilty. Bordering on libel if you ask me
Interesting perspective of the CPS you have there Satsuma
PMR
PMR

Posts : 616
Join date : 2014-09-27

Back to top Go down

Sir Cliff Richard - Page 4 Empty Re: Sir Cliff Richard

Post  Bloodhound Sat 10 Sep 2016, 3:10 pm

I think until his alleged connection with Elm guest house, aka Kitty, is cleared up, people will doubt. And no one seems to be clearing the air round that. If there is an innocent explaination why isn't he singing it from the roof tops. I know I would. It was a brothel where under aged boys were passed around, an innocent man would want to clarify that, in my opinion.

His choice of friends leave a lot to be desired. Kray twins, Saville, the Blairs, the royals, MI5 connections allegedly, to name but a few. Google his friendships.

As for not being charged, yet, it doesn't mean no evidence as far as I'm aware, I believe it means they don't have enough to be sure of a prosecution. That certainly does not mean no evidence. In a lot of historical cases it's a case if he said she said, there won't be physical evidence, as in finger prints, DNA etc. it will come down to little details, but still, most of the time, it's not enough to prosecute. It may be enough for the police to believe fully in the victims, even for the CPS to believe the victims, but not enough to be sure of a prosecution. Cliff has not been declared innocent by the cps because they would have to prove all 9 accusers were lying. Only then could they say he is innocent.

You would think if all nine were lying it would have been stated by now.

I don't know if he is innocent or guilty, but where Cliff is concerned I'd be erring on the side of caution until he cleared up his connections with his dodgy friends and Elm guest house and also until the victims were proven to be liars. I doubt all 9 are liars, I also don't believe for a second this will ever go to trial.

Money and power bring lots of advantages. The big power seems to be knighthoods, it seems to give protection from the highest order, look at Jimmy Saville and what he got away with, it's incredible, have all these "sirs" and "lords" got something on eachother?
Bloodhound
Bloodhound

Posts : 407
Join date : 2016-06-19
Age : 107
Location : Ireland

Back to top Go down

Sir Cliff Richard - Page 4 Empty Re: Sir Cliff Richard

Post  Heisenburg Sat 10 Sep 2016, 5:00 pm

Satsuma wrote:

But regarding evidence in crime cases,  the word "insufficient" isn't appropriate. The CPS is playing with the  English language to cover the fact that they don't have anything
if there was one piece of tangible evidence (rather than just one person's word against another)  it would be enough, as it would be in any case
so there can't be any "evidence" at all (like fingerprints on the handle of a knife in a murder case)

It's shocking that they use the word "insufficient",  because it implies they think he's guilty. Bordering on libel if you ask me

Being the CPS I would have thought they would know if it was libellous,clearly not for them to utter it.
Heisenburg
Heisenburg

Posts : 1876
Join date : 2016-01-11

Back to top Go down

Sir Cliff Richard - Page 4 Empty Re: Sir Cliff Richard

Post  Heisenburg Sat 10 Sep 2016, 5:03 pm

The way I understand it,the police investigate,they collate all statement's,produce a file,this is then handed to the CPS for them to decide whether the evidence is sufficient enough to secure a conviction or for some reason its in the public interest or not, such was the case in the Janner debacle..
Heisenburg
Heisenburg

Posts : 1876
Join date : 2016-01-11

Back to top Go down

Sir Cliff Richard - Page 4 Empty Re: Sir Cliff Richard

Post  Bloodhound Sat 10 Sep 2016, 5:10 pm

Heisenburg wrote:The way I understand it,the police investigate,they collate all statement's,produce a file,this is then handed to the CPS for them to decide whether the evidence is sufficient enough to secure a conviction or for some reason its in the public interest or not, such was the case in the Janner debacle..

I think the same, back in I my post I was saying they need to be sure of a "prosecution" but I should have said conviction.

I don't understand what public interest has to do with anything though, I'm not grasping that.

Also as far as I'm aware, when the CPS decide they won't prosecute because of lack of evidence, it doesn't mean the case is closed. It can be opened up again if further evidence was to come to light, enough that they would hope to get a conviction.
Bloodhound
Bloodhound

Posts : 407
Join date : 2016-06-19
Age : 107
Location : Ireland

Back to top Go down

Sir Cliff Richard - Page 4 Empty Re: Sir Cliff Richard

Post  chilli Sun 11 Sep 2016, 12:08 am

An example of 'not in the public interest' is a parent reversing out of a drive and killing their child. Yes you could prosecute them for driving without care or attention but really is it in the public interest to punish them further. They have lost a child, that is punishment enough.

Not sure where that applies in the case of Cliff Richard though.
chilli
chilli

Posts : 200
Join date : 2014-08-30

Back to top Go down

Sir Cliff Richard - Page 4 Empty Re: Sir Cliff Richard

Post  Freedom Sun 11 Sep 2016, 9:40 am

I remember a case which was declared to be not in the public interest to prosecute the mother of three or four children who died in a fire, caused I think by her being drunk; she suffered terrible injuries.

It doesn't seem relevant to the situation with Cliff though, as Chilli said.
Freedom
Freedom
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 18182
Join date : 2014-08-17
Age : 109
Location : The nearest darkened room

Back to top Go down

Sir Cliff Richard - Page 4 Empty Re: Sir Cliff Richard

Post  PMR Sun 11 Sep 2016, 10:31 am

The CPS  review evidence and decide if there is sufficient to gain a conviction from a jury of ones peers. That is why often charges are reduced ie attempted murder may become GBH ,GBH become an assault because the offence criteria are less and are more likely to get that conviction,in realistic terms would you like to see a criminal walk away not guilty, or be sent down for a lesser offence?
I've never heard insufficient evidence be equated to libel before
PMR
PMR

Posts : 616
Join date : 2014-09-27

Back to top Go down

Sir Cliff Richard - Page 4 Empty Re: Sir Cliff Richard

Post  Andrew Tue 27 Sep 2016, 11:54 am

Andrew
Andrew

Posts : 13074
Join date : 2014-08-29

Back to top Go down

Sir Cliff Richard - Page 4 Empty Re: Sir Cliff Richard

Post  Satsuma Tue 27 Sep 2016, 4:01 pm

All nonsense, not the slightest piece of evidence against him. Case closed. Now watch Cliff go after the CPS for their "insufficient evidence" slur
Satsuma
Satsuma

Posts : 571
Join date : 2016-03-15

Back to top Go down

Sir Cliff Richard - Page 4 Empty Re: Sir Cliff Richard

Post  bluebell Tue 27 Sep 2016, 7:09 pm

Satsuma wrote:All nonsense, not the slightest piece of evidence against him. Case closed. Now watch Cliff go after the CPS for their "insufficient evidence" slur



I'm not wholly in agreement at your quote of "not the slightest piece of evidence against him" Satsuma.

We have no knowledge of what the evidence police presented to CPS.

That the CPS have decided not to form a prosecution case is ex ante.

_________________
The pure and simple truth is rarely pure, and never simple.        Oscar Wilde
bluebell
bluebell

Posts : 1677
Join date : 2014-09-01
Age : 106
Location : S/W UK

Back to top Go down

Sir Cliff Richard - Page 4 Empty Re: Sir Cliff Richard

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 4 of 6 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum