Operation Grange

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Re: Operation Grange

Post  AndyB on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 3:48 pm

Andrew wrote:Apart from Bennett his 3 disciples and 300 socks, then does anyone else think this is how a 'whitewash' would be played out......

A genuine question.....?
Pretty much, yes. And a very successful one at that so far, considering none of us has any clue why the Mccanns were seemingly the beneficiaries of so much more government help, and so quickly, than anyone else before or since. As HM says above though there are two things that are making it much more difficult this time (compared to all the other times that we don't even know about): The Portuguese published the case files and the internet. Perhaps the only true purpose of Grange is to try and get control of the narrative, although it doesn't seem to have done very well at that. Maybe that's why it's being slowly wound down in silence.
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Re: Operation Grange

Post  froggy on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 3:51 pm

If you wanted a whitewash and didn't care about public opinion, then it would have been wound up pretty rapidly.
If you wanted a whitewash but wanted it to appear otherwise then you might be happy to drag the investigation out for years.

After all, it's only public money and there's plenty of that to waste
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Re: Operation Grange

Post  Andrew on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 4:20 pm

Good to see other opinions.

I've got to leave the office now but personally I just can't see how they can whitewash this one iota.

If there was a deliberate intent to do so, then it sure as hell wouldn't be played out like this in the glaring view of the general public. And if there was an orchestrated attempt to get this 'sorted' it would've been and very quickly and ages ago as well.

And to top it off we have the MSM today subtlety directing their readers to the English translation of the documentary on YouTube about the book the McCanns tried to ban and lost.

No whitewash for me. Will elaborate more later or tomorrow probably, but keep your views coming though...
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Re: Operation Grange

Post  candyfloss on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 5:06 pm

I am just getting a feeling it might be a bums on sofa again and a chat about the 10th anniversary, and an opportunity for Op Grange to speak to K & G  and viewers and tell them that despite huge efforts  they are winding up the case, with no reasonable outcome, just as they did in the beginning to announce the case.  K & G in agreement nodding away, sad, shame but sorry folks that's it.  I hope I am wrong, this case need to be resolved.  


On the other hand of course it could all be just the usual fairy stories we are force fed. However if SY have arranged this then that is going to be very interesting.   At least not too long to wait now,

Ah well, to cut a long story short I have no idea Andrew, can't still agree that it would be a whitewash, not after 5 years investigating, there has to be an outcome imo.


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Re: Operation Grange

Post  froggy on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 5:22 pm

OG won't want to wind down until they know what the PJ are working away on. This could explain the various extensions to the investigation.
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Re:Operation Grange.

Post  costello on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 5:40 pm

AndyB wrote:
Andrew wrote:Apart from Bennett his 3 disciples and 300 socks, then does anyone else think this is how a 'whitewash' would be played out......

A genuine question.....?
Pretty much, yes. And a very successful one at that so far, considering none of us has any clue why the Mccanns were seemingly the beneficiaries of so much more government help, and so quickly, than anyone else before or since. As HM says above though there are two things that are making it much more difficult this time (compared to all the other times that we don't even know about): The Portuguese published the case files and the internet. Perhaps the only true purpose of Grange is to try and get control of the narrative, although it doesn't seem to have done very well at that. Maybe that's why it's being slowly wound down in silence.

Good post AndyB. I am inclined to agree.
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Re: Operation Grange

Post  espeland on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 5:43 pm

froggy wrote:OG won't want to wind down until they know what the PJ are working away on. This could explain the various extensions to the investigation.


But they do know - the PJ have stated the two teams are working well together. Yes, OG can report there is no indication of an abduction - as their remit specifies - but how can they expect us and more importantly the MSM to accept them ignoring the SC comments and the English language version of the film version of GA's book?


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Re: Operation Grange

Post  froggy on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 6:06 pm

espeland wrote:
froggy wrote:OG won't want to wind down until they know what the PJ are working away on. This could explain the various extensions to the investigation.


But they do know - the PJ have stated the two teams are working well together. Yes, OG can report there is no indication of an abduction - as their remit specifies - but how can they expect us and more importantly the MSM to accept them ignoring the SC comments and the English language version of the film version of GA's book?



The PJ had 2 teams. One is cooperating with OG and facilitating their needs. The other works on their own, At least that is my understanding
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Re: Operation Grange

Post  canada12 on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 6:39 pm

Perhaps we'll see a repeat of the Crimewatch show when the camera cut away to show Kate and Gerry waiting in the wings looking extremely apprehensive - not sure they realized the camera would be on them! Perhaps we'll see another "revelation" pulled out of the hat. The last big revelation was that Tannerman had been located. Perhaps OG will take this opportunity to reveal something new to us - and Kate and Gerry!
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Re: Operation Grange

Post  Châtelaine on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 6:41 pm

They will get there, all of them IMO
It is just a matter of time [as it has been for the past almost 10 years].
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Re: Operation Grange

Post  froggy on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 6:45 pm

canada12 wrote:Perhaps we'll see a repeat of the Crimewatch show when the camera cut away to show Kate and Gerry waiting in the wings looking extremely apprehensive - not sure they realized the camera would be on them! Perhaps we'll see another "revelation" pulled out of the hat. The last big revelation was that Tannerman had been located. Perhaps OG will take this opportunity to reveal something new to us - and Kate and Gerry!

Surely not an unrehearsed on-camera arrest scene bounce
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Re: Operation Grange

Post  Dee Coy on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 7:03 pm

costello wrote:
AndyB wrote:
Andrew wrote:Apart from Bennett his 3 disciples and 300 socks, then does anyone else think this is how a 'whitewash' would be played out......

A genuine question.....?
Pretty much, yes. And a very successful one at that so far, considering none of us has any clue why the Mccanns were seemingly the beneficiaries of so much more government help, and so quickly, than anyone else before or since. As HM says above though there are two things that are making it much more difficult this time (compared to all the other times that we don't even know about): The Portuguese published the case files and the internet. Perhaps the only true purpose of Grange is to try and get control of the narrative, although it doesn't seem to have done very well at that. Maybe that's why it's being slowly wound down in silence.

Good post AndyB. I am inclined to agree.

Me three. And I agree with Froggy, OG continues to exist to try to assess what the PJ have, imo. There was also this fascinating Tweet from Adiren oday:

"N.M @AdirenM
Operation Grange never had any contact with the actual PJ investigation team, only with Faro PJs assigned to respond to their rogs #mccann "

https://mobile.twitter.com/AdirenM?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

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Re: Operation Grange

Post  Andrew on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 7:38 pm

A very quick look in....

A bit depressive, folks.

Will return.
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Re: Operation Grange

Post  Dee Coy on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 8:13 pm

Not too depressive, Andrew! The media-mood is definitely changing and, of course, if the Portuguese Investigation has been completely seperate to the team who dealt with OGs never-ending demands then that's fantastic news. If the PJ are keeping OG out of the loop that means they're serious and not part of any whitewash.

I've said all along that hope lies with the Portuguese, in my opinion. After all, only they can press charges relating to the disappearance and they will want to avenge the damage done to their country and reputation. As Goncalo has said all along, it is a matter of waiting until the political will changes.

With May and the SC ruling, is it changing now? Do the UK now realise they can no longer keep all fingers and toes in the dam and it is time to sacrifice the 'frontsmen'?

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Re: Operation Grange

Post  dogs don't lie on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 9:32 pm

I'd actually thought OG was to assist the PJ? Probably in my dream though. Neutral

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Re:Operation Grange.

Post  costello on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 5:29 pm

Dee Coy wrote:
costello wrote:
AndyB wrote:
Andrew wrote:Apart from Bennett his 3 disciples and 300 socks, then does anyone else think this is how a 'whitewash' would be played out......

A genuine question.....?
Pretty much, yes. And a very successful one at that so far, considering none of us has any clue why the Mccanns were seemingly the beneficiaries of so much more government help, and so quickly, than anyone else before or since. As HM says above though there are two things that are making it much more difficult this time (compared to all the other times that we don't even know about): The Portuguese published the case files and the internet. Perhaps the only true purpose of Grange is to try and get control of the narrative, although it doesn't seem to have done very well at that. Maybe that's why it's being slowly wound down in silence.

Good post AndyB. I am inclined to agree.

Me three. And I agree with Froggy, OG continues to exist to try to assess what the PJ have, imo. There was also this fascinating Tweet from Adiren oday:

"N.M @AdirenM
Operation Grange never had any contact with the actual PJ investigation team, only with Faro PJs assigned to respond to their rogs  #mccann "

https://mobile.twitter.com/AdirenM?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Bang on the button there Dee Coy,I also agree with Froggy. My faith lies in Portugal if they 'are able' to press any charges. Sadly to say I have never had any confidence in Operation Grange.
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Re: Operation Grange

Post  canada12 on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 6:45 pm

Here's a thought. Perhaps the ONLY reason Operation Grange exists is to eliminate every single possibility EXCEPT the elephant in the room. It would have been a daunting task for the Portuguese police to carry out - assuming they could even get the budget to do it. So, while every single alternate possibility has been eliminated, and the elephant is still sitting smugly in its room, thinking Operation Grange exists solely to please it, OG quietly sharing its results with Portugal and will step back to allow Portugal to take charge when the time is right.
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Re: Operation Grange

Post  bluebell on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 6:52 pm

canada12 wrote:Here's a thought. Perhaps the ONLY reason Operation Grange exists is to eliminate every single possibility EXCEPT the elephant in the room. It would have been a daunting task for the Portuguese police to carry out - assuming they could even get the budget to do it. So, while every single alternate possibility has been eliminated, and the elephant is still sitting smugly in its room, thinking Operation Grange exists solely to please it, OG quietly sharing its results with Portugal and will step back to allow Portugal to take charge when the time is right.


Do you think OG might have been able to gain access to MM's health records, TM's bank statements/credit card refs, and previous cell phone records etc? I don't think any of these were available to the PJ.

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Re: Operation Grange

Post  canada12 on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 7:00 pm

bluebell wrote:
canada12 wrote:Here's a thought. Perhaps the ONLY reason Operation Grange exists is to eliminate every single possibility EXCEPT the elephant in the room. It would have been a daunting task for the Portuguese police to carry out - assuming they could even get the budget to do it. So, while every single alternate possibility has been eliminated, and the elephant is still sitting smugly in its room, thinking Operation Grange exists solely to please it, OG quietly sharing its results with Portugal and will step back to allow Portugal to take charge when the time is right.


Do you think OG might have been able to gain access to MM's health records, TM's bank statements/credit card refs, and previous cell phone records etc?   I don't think any of these were available to the PJ.

Perhaps they have been able to. I can't see why they shouldn't be able to with a search warrant. Unless of course any of these things have mysteriously disappeared....
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Re: Operation Grange

Post  niklasericson on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 8:12 pm

The big problem with this case as I see it is that there is lack of conclusive evidence to get him/she/they convicted for a serious crime.
PJ/SY needs to connect him/she/they to the crime with forensic evidences, witnesses and or a confession.
Maybe PJ have dug up more evidences from the 2007 findings, I really hope so.
I'am skeptic but there are people out there who knows what happened and I think someone will speak out.
I know there's a lot of people who want's them arrested for neglect but in my opinion they never left their kids alone at all because MBM was only around for a very short period that week.

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Re: Operation Grange

Post  Andrew on Fri 17 Feb 2017, 9:26 pm

canada12 wrote:Here's a thought. Perhaps the ONLY reason Operation Grange exists is to eliminate every single possibility EXCEPT the elephant in the room. It would have been a daunting task for the Portuguese police to carry out - assuming they could even get the budget to do it. So, while every single alternate possibility has been eliminated, and the elephant is still sitting smugly in its room, thinking Operation Grange exists solely to please it, OG quietly sharing its results with Portugal and will step back to allow Portugal to take charge when the time is right.

Music to my ears cheers
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Re: Operation Grange

Post  Heisenburg on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 8:39 am

Wiltshire Chief Constable Mike Veale talking about investigations into allegations regarding E Heath had this to say.
The legal role of the police service is to, on behalf of the public, impartially investigate allegations without fear or favour, and go where the evidence takes us.’

What say you DCI Wall.
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Re: Operation Grange

Post  froggy on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 5:09 pm

froggy wrote:
espeland wrote:
froggy wrote:OG won't want to wind down until they know what the PJ are working away on. This could explain the various extensions to the investigation.


But they do know - the PJ have stated the two teams are working well together. Yes, OG can report there is no indication of an abduction - as their remit specifies - but how can they expect us and more importantly the MSM to accept them ignoring the SC comments and the English language version of the film version of GA's book?



The PJ had 2 teams. One is cooperating with OG and facilitating their needs. The other works on their own, At least that is my understanding


Something I hadn't seen before. OK, it's the Express, but makes interesting reading.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/439464/Portuguese-police-held-their-own-Madeleine-McCann-reconstruction
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Re: Operation Grange

Post  Andrew on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 5:20 pm

I can't recall seeing that article before either, froggy.

I think this bit at the bottom is a load of guff though:

For a time Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, were seen as arguidos or suspects but that status was lifted. Now they are being kept fully informed of all developments and were given a personal briefing of the work of the PJ in Lisbon last week.
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Re: Operation Grange

Post  Heisenburg on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 6:02 pm

froggy wrote:
froggy wrote:
espeland wrote:
froggy wrote:OG won't want to wind down until they know what the PJ are working away on. This could explain the various extensions to the investigation.


But they do know - the PJ have stated the two teams are working well together. Yes, OG can report there is no indication of an abduction - as their remit specifies - but how can they expect us and more importantly the MSM to accept them ignoring the SC comments and the English language version of the film version of GA's book?



The PJ had 2 teams. One is cooperating with OG and facilitating their needs. The other works on their own, At least that is my understanding


Something I hadn't seen before.  OK, it's the Express, but makes interesting reading.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/439464/Portuguese-police-held-their-own-Madeleine-McCann-reconstruction

Thats a good find Froggy.
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Re: Operation Grange

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