BREAKING NEWS - Goncalo loses libel/damages trial and must pay damages

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Post  Dee Coy on Wed 29 Apr 2015, 6:41 pm

Thetruth wrote:Pat Brown has very eloquently and politely stated the position and I fully agree with her.

It is over.

Angel wings and sofa shows await.


I agree. My darkest, although expected, thoughts have materialised, and are described perfectly by Pat.

It was a whitewash all along, I fear.

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Post  Guest on Wed 29 Apr 2015, 7:10 pm

From me.... it does not look as if they got what they wanted re court costs and look at the publicity they wanted to demonstrate Amaral's downfall. AND they wanted Amaral to pay for the media denigration he was going to get !

  III – To pay emerging material damages, comprising of all the costs that may be liquidated in the execution of the sentence and that are directly and necessarily inherent to the judicial initiatives that are deemed necessary or that have been or will be carried out with grounds on the contents, interviews and news texts mentioned in the official documents / files.

IV – That the convicting sentence be published (extracts) at the convicted expenses, for two consecutive days in one of the most read newspapers in Portugal and one of the most read daily UK newspapers and also to publish the said convicting sentencing (extracts) and only once in one of the most read weekly newspapers in Portugal and in the UK, chosen by the authors (MCCANN family)in the 15 days immediately subsequent to the final the judicial decision (trânsito em julgado Res Iudicata , please note that this concept is different in Common Law systems and in Civil Law systems)

V – To pay the court fees, including the fees of its authorised representatives

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Post  Mimi on Wed 29 Apr 2015, 7:27 pm

candyfloss wrote:

Wednesday, April 29, 2015



How the Ruling and the Scotland Yard Review have Nothing to Do with Madeleine




 BREAKING NEWS - Goncalo loses libel/damages trial and must pay damages - Page 11 Gonalo%2Band%2BTruth%2Bof%2Bthe%2BlieA lot of people believe that when a homicide occurs, that law enforcement and the judiciary system have a remit to pursue justice for of the victim, to do everything possible to avenge the loss of life on behalf of a person who cannot do so for himself as he is no longer on earth. I am not sure what fanciful words are used in the UK and Portugal, but when a crime occurs in the US, any effort made by police or prosecutor is done so in "the interest of the state." What exactly does that mean? Most believe that since the state represents the citizens, it must mean "in the interest of the citizens" - in the case of a homicide -  for the victim, who was a citizen, for the family who are the living victims, and the community who has a dangerous perpetrator still in their midst who may well strike again.

In reality, what this remit means is, a crime is pursued in accordance with how important it is to those in power. This does not mean that there are not detectives and prosecutors out there who are working passionately to get justice for the family and get killers off the streets; there certainly are. But, in the end, what it may come down to is how important it is to those who run the state, not the people of the state.

The more important the citizen, the more effort put into the case. The more media received, the more attention the case receives. If the truth about the crime, the criminal, or the handling of the case is damaging to the state, there may be some sort of cover-up, small or large. If it benefits the state to put someone away and close the case regardless of his guilt, so be it. If it serves the state to fudge evidence or lie, it may well be done. Why? Because there a people called politicians out there and they have the power to have things their way.

I have long tried to help people pursuing justice for Madeleine to understand that this whole case is far bigger than one little girl. It stopped being about Madeleine on May 3 because, after that, it became about the parents, the friends, the UK, Portugal, police, politicians, media, egos, careers and international political issues.

Ever since there was UK interference on a high level, it was clear this case had gone south and that there were interests to the state that had nothing to do with supporting the Portuguese police investigation. When the McCanns returned home to England and the Portuguese shelved the case, this was the second nail in the coffin of justice; it was clear the Portuguese state had some interest to protect far beyond justice for a small child. When Scotland Yard was given the green light to do the review, there were only two possible reasons; the McCanns were innocent or the McCanns and Company (whoever they were) had assurance that Scotland Yard had a remit to only address an abduction theory that was ironclad. This Scotland Yard remit was evidence that there were some interests to the state that were quite major because it was an unprecedented move to have a UK police force intervene in a case in another country that they had not been invited to participate in and to start the case by limiting, from the start, the scope of the review.

Next, we see a police force spend an insane amount of money and time and manpower on one case, a case that is unlikely to see any results if the parents were not involved, because it is a fact that, if it were not the parents' crime, then Madeleine was dead by May 4 at the hands of a pedophile and her body tossed or buried years ago; hence, Scotland Yard was not rushing in to save a life. And Scotland Yard certainly showed no urgency because they took years mulling over the files and doing god-knows-what instead of getting straight to work analyzing the crime scene and suspects and getting the job done. I have never seen a more bizarre state of affairs than watching this crack team of more than three dozen detectives use more money than than the entire annual budget for criminal investigation for some small countries in the world and come up with absolutely nothing credible in a "simple case of child abduction." Friends, this is politics, not proper police work.

And now we have the ruling. Some are already trying to see a silver lining in this catastrophic legal loss of Gonçalo Amaral; the judge disallowed certain points, the McCanns only got a partial payment, Gonçalo still has an appeal. Make no mistake, if the coffin hadn't been nailed shut with the Scotland Yard investigation, this is solid evidence that there is collusion between the Portuguese and British governments, that there was pressure on the judge to rule in favor of the McCanns and against freedom of speech in Portugal. And, in doing so, this readies the ground for the lowering of the coffin into the ground, for Scotland Yard to follow suit and declare the McCanns innocent of any wrongdoing (other than mistakenly thinking their children were safe alone in the vacation flat), to close the case with "we tried our best to cooperate with the Portuguese but we sadly can no longer spend millions on a case we cannot bring to prosecution; but we can assure the public that we know who the abductor is and he is no longer a threat to anyone as he is a) deceased or b) already in prison."

This devastating ruling pretty much puts angel wings on the backs of Kate and Gerry McCann and adorns Gonçalo Amaral with horns and a pitchfork, and gives the media yet more fodder for pro-McCannism. Since Scotland Yard has declared the McCanns are not being investigated, stated that Madeleine was abducted, and has spent years chasing one lowlife after the other and one pedophile/burglar theory after another, there is no way that Scotland Yard is suddenly going to do an about face and arrest Madeleine's parents, and if anyone thinks this is still going to happen, I have both swamp property and a London Bridge to sell you.

It hasn't been about Madeleine. It has been and is about the state. This is the way the world works. When there are no compromising issues like incompetence, misconduct or corruption, killers are caught, cases are properly closed, and the community is safer. When it goes awry for whatever reasons, the state and whoever controls it will make sure they don't go under because of one unfortunate situation.

A lot of people have not wanted to believe my take on this case. Personally, I would rather not believe my take on this case! It was my hope early on, even though I saw the early signs of political interference, that there might still be some chance of the Portuguese police reopening and solving this case properly; that they would fight back against the UK pressure. When I wrote my profile on the case and, even when I went to Portugal, I still had some very faint glimmer of this case somehow turning around. But, when Scotland Yard started in with all the suspects and digging, I knew, for sure, it was a done deal.

What has been my interest in all of this? To promote good deductive criminal profiling and proper handling of missing persons and homicide cases. I would have been ecstatic to see Scotland Yard arrest the McCanns; my profile would have been validated, I would be vindicated, and, we could have a wonderful example of a police agency willing to return to the evidence and, in spite of the unpleasant prospect of have to charge parents of a missing child with a crime, follow the evidence to the proper conclusion. Happy day!

But, this was and is not to be. From years in the trenches, I can tell you that more often than the public has any clue, justice is not served and families and professionals and future victims are often collateral damage in the quest for political expedience. In fact, I have seen cold cases more often "closed" for damage control with lies and fall guys than with truth and justice which is why I refuse to work them any more. When cases go on too long, there is often a good reason; they are broke and can't be fixed. And because things are the way they are, because the world has many good people but is not always good, I choose to do what I can that is positive and might bring the best results for the future. I prefer to focus now on training detectives in deductive criminal profiling so that they can do better analysis of their cases and prevent errors that cause them to go cold. If one can help detectives do a better job, than there it less likely that egos and politics will need to take over a case and cause its demise.

The Madeleine McCann case is truly one of the most fascinating and bizarre cases I have ever run into and it will be a case that will be discussed for many a year. Perhaps, when a few decades pass, we may learn the truth; perhaps, we never will. My hope is that we will learn the right things from this case that help illuminate some grave problems within the system, but my fear is that the politicians and the media have so obscured the truth that the general public will never get a proper understanding. Again, sadly, this is the way the world often works; history is written by the conqueror, and folks, we are not the winners here.

Peace.

Criminal Profiler Pat Brown

April 29, 2015
http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/how-ruling-and-scotland-yard-review.html

I give up - What Pat has written (bolded) has always been at the back of my mind and she has now said it out loud in plain terms - it comes down to how important one is. Oh I wish she wasn`t right.

So - why are the McCanns so important?
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Post  costello on Wed 29 Apr 2015, 7:48 pm

I totally agree Mimi, I remember reading "The McCann case is just the tip of the iceberg" on twitter a while back. I have always thought this case has to be much more than an accidental death of a child. Just my thoughts.
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Post  Chop Suey on Toast on Wed 29 Apr 2015, 8:01 pm

At the risk of being accused of harping on about the validity of GA's contribution, there is no reason to assume a whitewash of the entire case just because the approach of one individual has (or may have) been deemed to have strayed outside what is acceptable in law

The NSY investigation and GA's book etc are two different things, so why are so many of you (plus PB) connecting them?
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Post  dogs don't lie on Wed 29 Apr 2015, 8:16 pm

Your right CSOT, DCI Wall has to find smithman, I hope she has the determination to seek him out, he's out there somewhere.
IMO

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Post  Chop Suey on Toast on Wed 29 Apr 2015, 8:19 pm

DDL, I have a feeling that one reason why it's taking so long is that NSY are looking for someone in particular, out there somewhere in the world. Whether it's Smithman or someone else, I have no idea, or indeed how they fit into the daisy chain, but it would explain why it's taking so long
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Post  Guest on Wed 29 Apr 2015, 8:21 pm

Chop Suey on Toast wrote:At the risk of being accused of harping on about the validity of GA's contribution, there is no reason to assume a whitewash of the entire case just because the approach of one individual has (or may have) been deemed to have strayed outside what is acceptable in law

The NSY investigation and GA's book etc are two different things, so why are so many of you (plus PB) connecting them?

I find Pat Brown a little bit too gleeful in her defeatism.

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Post  dogs don't lie on Wed 29 Apr 2015, 8:32 pm

Chop Suey on Toast wrote:DDL, I have a feeling that one reason why it's taking so long is that NSY are looking for someone in particular, out there somewhere in the world. Whether it's Smithman or someone else, I have no idea, or indeed how they fit into the daisy chain, but it would explain why it's taking so long

AR pushed tannerman out of the way, DCI Wall has been left with smithman. If smithman was never reported, I'd understand why OG would want to wind it all up, but he's the main focus now, be strange to give up knowing he's out there and needs found.
IMO

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Post  Chop Suey on Toast on Wed 29 Apr 2015, 8:36 pm

Seicento wrote: I find Pat Brown a little bit too gleeful in her defeatism.

It is a strange article, Seicento. The court has been asked to rule on certain technical points regarding GA's book and his other methodology (ie is it within the law for him to make such claims without a conviction having been secured), not on the wider case at all. But she now throws in the towel and claims government conspiracy

Meanwhile, the investigation continues
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Post  Guest on Wed 29 Apr 2015, 9:03 pm

Chop Suey on Toast wrote:
Seicento wrote: I find Pat Brown a little bit too gleeful in her defeatism.

It is a strange article, Seicento. The court has been asked to rule on certain technical points regarding GA's book and his other methodology (ie is it within the law for him to make such claims without a conviction having been secured), not on the wider case at all. But she now throws in the towel and claims government conspiracyMeanwhile, the investigation continues

After all, it's only her own opinion as as so many other people on this forum and other forums.

There is a factual USA police investigation programme I watch which is on most mornings on Freeview channel 68, Dayle Hinman "Body of Evidence".  She is a retired FBI criminal profiler with 30 years in the police force behind her.

Perhaps the PJ/SY should get her involved, she doesn't seem to beat about the bush in finding who is responsible when she looks at certain cases.  She always seems to come up with the right criminals, even going back 20 years or more.  She has worked on several high-profile cases, including those of Ted Bundy, O.J. Simpson, and Aileen Wuornos -

"Dayle Hinman was one of the first people to ever attend the FBI’s Behavior Science Unit’s fellowship in criminal profiling. Dayle spend over 30 years in law enforcement in Florida, being one of the only women profilers in America. In 2001 Court TV did a documentary on Dayle called Body of Evidence. The movie was so popular that Court TV made it into a regular weekly show. Now retired Dayle spends most of her time lecturing throughout the world at forensic meetings."

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Post  Chop Suey on Toast on Wed 29 Apr 2015, 9:43 pm

I wonder how many of those cases were solved without a body? Ultimately that was, and still is, GA's number one problem. He deduced that a body was hidden by specified persons but never managed to find it

Maybe NSY still believe they will find a body, they are looking for it, and that's why the case is dragging on. The big question then would be: where in the world might they be looking?
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Post  mabossa ritchie on Wed 29 Apr 2015, 10:25 pm

Chop Suey on Toast wrote:I wonder how many of those cases were solved without a body? Ultimately that was, and still is, GA's number one problem. He deduced that a body was hidden by specified persons but never managed to find it

Maybe NSY still believe they will find a body, they are looking for it, and that's why the case is dragging on. The big question then would be: where in the world might they be looking?



Anywhere on the hills,moors or marshes of the Algarve.
The proverbial needle in a haystack,body having been moved there using the hired car.
Hopefully mobile phone data will help.
Agree, can't see how death occurred on the 3rd,not enough time to plan etc.
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Post  Guest on Wed 29 Apr 2015, 10:59 pm

Seicento wrote:
Chop Suey on Toast wrote:At the risk of being accused of harping on about the validity of GA's contribution, there is no reason to assume a whitewash of the entire case just because the approach of one individual has (or may have) been deemed to have strayed outside what is acceptable in law

The NSY investigation and GA's book etc are two different things, so why are so many of you (plus PB) connecting them?

I find Pat Brown a little bit too gleeful in her defeatism.

Thank you both! Just a little too much to take from someone not keen on reading the files.

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Post  Chop Suey on Toast on Thu 30 Apr 2015, 7:17 am

Although this wasn't officially a "libel" trial, there were strong similarities with a traditional libel case, so the press tended to describe it as such
The main crux of libel (defamation) is that it damages the claimant in some respect
In this instance, that took two forms - potential harm to the search and public perception of the claimants

By far the best defence in a defamation trial is proof that what you said is true. GA couldn't do that, it was just a hypothesis
The other defences are more nebulous and therefore more open to interpretation. They can go either way. But it would always be risky to write a book hypothesising that someone committed a criminal act unless you can demonstrate that what you have said is true

That's why damages were awarded, though a number of points were dismissed, so the compensation wasn't as great as it might have been, and costs were shared
All of this has nothing to do with the ongoing investigation, and I'm surprised that PB connected them

Yes, the more I think about it, the more I think that NSY are waiting for a body. It would provide the tangible link with the past that is so desperately needed
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Post  chirpyinsect on Thu 30 Apr 2015, 7:36 am

I have been thinking about this and it might not be so bad. Reading a post over there has helped clarify this for me but it may be me clutching at straws.
If GA had won he would walk away and my feeling is, although the two things are not actually linked, the OG would be quietly wound down with no perp found.
Now there will be an appeal which I read somewhere yesterday goes more in depth. Need clarification on this. Could it be more can come out this time around? Sorry for no link as I can`t remember where I saw this.

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Post  Chop Suey on Toast on Thu 30 Apr 2015, 7:41 am

Well the fact that GA's theory remains unproven means that there has been no solution, and it's the police's job to find one
I suppose more might emerge at appeal, but alternative explanations are imo more likely to yield a result
I can't see any reason why they would want to give up on such a high-profile case. Though a change of government at the General Election might result in cost-cutting, I suppose
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Post  chirpyinsect on Thu 30 Apr 2015, 7:49 am

Chop Suey on Toast wrote:Well the fact that GA's theory remains unproven means that there has been no solution, and it's the police's job to find one
I suppose more might emerge at appeal, but alternative explanations are imo more likely to yield a result
I can't see any reason why they would want to give up on such a high-profile case. Though a change of government at the General Election might result in cost-cutting, I suppose

I think that cases are shelved if not solved and never officially closed so either Grange has to come up with a perp or admit defeat and leave it open. Regardless
of whether we think whitewash or not, a shelved case leaves the Macs looking over their shoulders for the rest of their lives. I take comfort from that at least.
We do have to remember though that OG is Home Office funded and not directly from the Met budget, so a change of government may just see it wound down to save money.
I`m off to see if I can find that snippet I saw yesterday. Why did I not copy it at the time? Grrrr

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Post  Guest on Thu 30 Apr 2015, 7:55 am

I also do not believe that this latest news automatically means that the investigation will be a whitewash..it's a bit of a stretch tbh that all of this has been orchestrated to play out in the public view, simply to clear the names of two nobodies, when the entire thing could have been kept under wraps from the beginning and no one would have been any the wiser...it just seems ridiculous to me.

As for Pat Brown, one minute she's leaving the case for good, then she's back proclaiming that she doesn't think there is a cover up, then before you can blink, she's back on the whitewash wagon, but at the end of the day, she is also just a person like all of us, who have absolutely no idea what actually happened that night, right through to what SY/PJ are doing today, apart from what we've been told..and lets face it, a lot of that is untrue or misleading.

So yes, I am still prepared to wait until Grange's conclusion before I make a final judgement

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Post  Guest on Thu 30 Apr 2015, 8:03 am

If Grange is a whitewash then it's not a very good one, or it wouldn't still be dragging on.

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Post  chirpyinsect on Thu 30 Apr 2015, 8:08 am

susible wrote:I also do not believe that this latest news automatically means that the investigation will be a whitewash..it's a bit of a stretch tbh that all of this has been orchestrated to play out in the public view, simply to clear the names of two nobodies, when the entire thing could have been kept under wraps from the beginning and no one would have been any the wiser...it just seems ridiculous to me.

As for Pat Brown, one minute she's leaving the case for good, then she's back proclaiming that she doesn't think there is a cover up, then before you can blink, she's back on the whitewash wagon, but at the end of the day, she is also just a person like all of us, who have absolutely no idea what actually happened that night, right through to what SY/PJ are doing today, apart from what we've been told..and lets face it, a lot of that is untrue or misleading.

So yes, I am still prepared to wait until Grange's conclusion before I make a final judgement

That is what keeps us going through all this. My feelings echo yours that there would have been a far neater and quicker solution to all of this had it been a snow job.
Within months a dead patsy would have been found or that Ronald McDonald or whatever his name was, would have been done up like a kipper. Sometimes a suitable perp is found then whisked off quietly with a new id after fessing up. Or have I just watched too many detective movies?

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Post  dogs don't lie on Thu 30 Apr 2015, 8:09 am

chirpyinsect wrote:
Chop Suey on Toast wrote:Well the fact that GA's theory remains unproven means that there has been no solution, and it's the police's job to find one
I suppose more might emerge at appeal, but alternative explanations are imo more likely to yield a result
I can't see any reason why they would want to give up on such a high-profile case. Though a change of government at the General Election might result in cost-cutting, I suppose

I think that cases are shelved if not solved and never officially closed so either Grange has to come up with a perp or admit defeat and leave it open. Regardless
of whether we think whitewash or not, a shelved case leaves the Macs looking over their shoulders for the rest of their lives. I take comfort from that at least.
We do have to remember though that OG is Home Office funded and not directly from the Met budget, so a change of government may just see it wound down to save money.
I`m off to see if I can find that snippet I saw yesterday. Why did I not copy it at the time? Grrrr

Smithman carrying a little white girl, 3/4yrs old and in pjs at the right time is still on the loose, we have a detective who seems to not let things beat her, females can be very determined, I couldn't wind this up knowing there's a huge and highly likely perp out there, whether he was 60/80% GM or not.
IMO
Congrats to the mcs, but plz give that money to the police force to carry on hunting for your child!

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Post  Chop Suey on Toast on Thu 30 Apr 2015, 8:15 am

Yes indeed, all of you. There was no need to re-open an already-shelved case just to close it again 4 years later to complete the whitewash

The "libel trial" does highlight one very important thing - on forums like this, the general perception of the sequence of events is still largely based on what was said in the early days of the Mirror forum and 3As: gossipy reports from Portuguese newspapers and things that were leaked, presumably by certain elements in the PJ

To solve this case it will be essential to question every assumption that you make, because it may not be true. Even those things that you believe to be fundamental facts of the story - ask yourself "do I know that for sure?", or it is just because I've seen it repeated over and over again for several years?

GA's hypothesis has played a big part in that. It is perfectly possible to admire his contribution without thinking that his "solution" was correct. Indeed, it would be surprising if the last 7 years haven't yielded some extra information or insight (yes, maybe even on internet forums) that might persuade him to revise his theory. But of course that would be interpreted as a sign of weakness, so I doubt that he'll go there
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Post  candyfloss on Thu 30 Apr 2015, 8:26 am

Rolling Eyes  Mad


Sickos troll McCanns for £357k libel cash

MADELEINE McCann’s parents have been targeted by trolls after winning £357,000 damages.


By Jerry Lawton / Published 30th April 2015


Kate and Gerry were blasted on social networking sites over their six-year battle against ex-police chief Goncalo Amaral.
The Portuguese officer claimed they covered up their daughter’s death in a best-selling book.
But the trolls accused the couple of profiting from their daughter’s disappearance.
 

Isabel Duarte, lawyer wrote:“Damages my clients receive will be spent on the search for Madeleine”

Last night the McCanns vowed to use “every single penny” of the pay-out to help find Madeleine, who vanished in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz on May 3, 2007.

A team of 31 Scotland Yard detectives is investigating.

But the McCanns’ spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: “The investigation will come to an end sooner or later and Kate and Gerry will use the official Madeleine fund and any awards made to them to continue their own search.’’


Their Portuguese lawyer Isabel Duarte said: “Damages my clients receive will be spent on the search for Madeleine.’’

Mr Mitchell added: “Kate and Gerry remain very grateful for the continuing support from the Government and the Metropolitan Police but realise it cannot last. In a common sense and practical move they have kept some money back from the Find Madeleine Fund in case it is needed.”
Last night a source close to the case said it was not certain Mr Amaral, 55, who plans to appeal, could pay the damages.
“Some people think he is a multi-millionaire because of this book but he is not,’’ the source said.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/439410/Madeleine-McCann-Kate-Gerry-357k-libel-cash

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Post  Chop Suey on Toast on Thu 30 Apr 2015, 8:30 am

"The investigation will come to an end sooner or later..."
Yes, maybe because the case has been solved
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