Doubts on Mrs Fenn's statement?

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Re: Doubts on Mrs Fenn's statement?

Post  Mimi on Wed 23 Sep 2015, 1:45 pm

Don't Forget Madeleine wrote:
Andrew wrote:Why would this 'foreign woman' ring up Robert Murat in the first place (if they didn't know each other)

Or am I missing something...

I doubt Murat would refer to an elderly English lady (Mrs Fenn) as a "foreign woman", he would know the person on the phone was English.

It could have been someone living in one of the other apartments who was sick of listening to the crying but didn't want to contact the police but knew that RM was a well known person for sorting problems out in the area and thought he would be able to help instead.

Agreed.  Unless there was a miscommunication between the GNR officer and Murat, I would imagine Murat would have stated what language she was speaking because he must have understood her to know what she said. I don`t know what other languages Murat speaks besides English and Portuguese - maybe German as well because Michaela Walczuch was German born.  

I reckon this vagueness is merely as a result of how the GNR officer relayed it in his statement - just saying `foreign` rather than English.

The GNR officer made his statement on 16th May 2007 imparting this stuff about Murat and a foreign woman - so it couldn`t have been Mrs. Fenn because she didn`t make her statement until 20th August 2007.

So the foreign woman must have phoned RM before 16th May 2007 and after she had been interviewed.

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Re: Doubts on Mrs Fenn's statement?

Post  Mimi on Wed 23 Sep 2015, 2:06 pm

Unless we can identify the names of all the people staying `near to 5A` that heard a child crying and gave their statement before 16th May 2007, I doubt we`ll be able to identify who it was (or if Murat was telling the truth of course).

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Re: Doubts on Mrs Fenn's statement?

Post  Guest on Wed 23 Sep 2015, 2:25 pm

Mimi wrote:Unless we can identify the names of all the people staying `near to 5A` that heard a child crying and gave their statement before 16th May 2007, I doubt we`ll be able to identify who it was (or if Murat was telling the truth of course).

You're confusing me Mimi, which I must say isn't difficult these days.

The "foreign lady" may not have given a statement if RM didn't know who she was, she may just have been a voice on the end of the phone saying "Robert/Mr Murat, a child has been crying non stop in one of the apartments for over an hour now, please could you look in to it to see if anything remiss has occurred or if anyone else has reported it".

I can't see why Murat would not be telling the truth if he told the GNR about it, what he would gain by lying, unless I've missed something.

After all Mrs Fenn heard crying also, so it's not something that RM would just conjure up out of thin air.

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Re: Doubts on Mrs Fenn's statement?

Post  Mimi on Wed 23 Sep 2015, 2:32 pm

Freedom wrote:I can only remember it coming from someone on CMoMM!

Sharonl made a vague assumption that PF and JM possibly knew each other because `weren`t they on some committee together?` or words to that effect. Maybe that`s where is stemmed from - chinese whispers etc. So we still don`t know for sure whether they knew each other or not.

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Re: Doubts on Mrs Fenn's statement?

Post  whyte on Wed 23 Sep 2015, 2:33 pm

Freedom wrote:I can only remember it coming from someone on CMoMM!



Sharon L started a thread  on this subject over a year ago and then it all kicked off.


Last edited by whyte on Wed 23 Sep 2015, 2:42 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : change word post to thread)
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Re: Doubts on Mrs Fenn's statement?

Post  Guest on Wed 23 Sep 2015, 2:38 pm

Mimi wrote:
Freedom wrote:I can only remember it coming from someone on CMoMM!

Sharonl made a vague assumption that PF and JM possibly knew each other because `weren`t they on some committee together?` or words to that effect.  Maybe that`s where is stemmed from - chinese whispers etc.  So we still don`t know for sure whether they knew each other or not.

I've been on a number of Committees in past years, charities, etc.  I've liaised with the people, had coffee mornings (fund raising for charities) with them etc, but I didn't "know" any of them.  I never got involved with their family lives, had dinner out with them or anything like that, they were just associates in a business way.  You can be friendly with certain people but not actually get to know them.


Last edited by Don't Forget Madeleine on Wed 23 Sep 2015, 2:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Doubts on Mrs Fenn's statement?

Post  Mimi on Wed 23 Sep 2015, 2:39 pm

Don't Forget Madeleine wrote:
Mimi wrote:Unless we can identify the names of all the people staying `near to 5A` that heard a child crying and gave their statement before 16th May 2007, I doubt we`ll be able to identify who it was (or if Murat was telling the truth of course).

You're confusing me Mimi, which I must say isn't difficult these days.

The "foreign lady" may not have given a statement if RM didn't know who she was, she may just have been a voice on the end of the phone saying "Robert/Mr Murat, a child has been crying non stop in one of the apartments for over an hour now, please could you look in to it to see if anything remiss has occurred or if anyone else has reported it".

I can't see why Murat would not be telling the truth if he told the GNR about it, what he would gain by lying, unless I've missed something.

After all Mrs Fenn heard crying also, so it's not something that RM would just conjure up out of thin air.

Oh dear, I`m confusing myself I think Rolling Eyes

It`s so difficult to determine what`s true, whose lying and why etc.

The GNR officer said the foreign lady had already given a statement - but whether he meant Robert Murat told him that or he knew that anyway, there`s no knowing. I`m gonna give my brain a rest. Laughing

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Re: Doubts on Mrs Fenn's statement?

Post  Andrew on Wed 23 Sep 2015, 3:46 pm

Was it Edna Glyn, who rang up Murat..

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm

Bit confused on all this, myself.
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Re: Doubts on Mrs Fenn's statement?

Post  Guest on Wed 23 Sep 2015, 4:02 pm

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post this but someone somewhere else has been challenged as to the fact that someone has said that Mrs Fenn and her daughter didn't come forward with their statements until 3 months after Madeleine disappeared, when there are statements dated a few days later after 3rd May.

It all smacks of the Smiths being denigrated at all costs, and now it seems everyone's statements are untrustworthy whoever was in the vicinity around 3rd May 2007.

Admin: pls delete if not appropriate.

ETA: Has now been amended as a mistake (not Mrs Fenn so far though), hmmm, sure, a huge mistake to make when someone has been following this case for 8 years.


Last edited by Don't Forget Madeleine on Wed 23 Sep 2015, 4:17 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added an ETA)

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Re: Doubts on Mrs Fenn's statement?

Post  Antonia on Wed 23 Sep 2015, 4:18 pm

Well Mrs Fenn and her niece are WOMEN and the sockless one appears to have issues with women. they are just not reliable. better to believe what you read in the Sun etc.
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Re: Doubts on Mrs Fenn's statement?

Post  bluebell on Wed 23 Sep 2015, 7:07 pm

The 'unnamed' person who stated elsewhere that Mrs Fenn and her daughter/niece didn't give statements for 3 months doesn't even have the
honour to say "In my opinion" after such writing such things.

Myself I often get things wrong or misremember details, but to to categorically state one's opinion as the truth is beyond comprehension. Rolling Eyes


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Re: Doubts on Mrs Fenn's statement?

Post  Châtelaine on Wed 23 Sep 2015, 8:05 pm

I won't comment, as I promised myself I wouldn't anymore on utterings of such person...
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Re: Doubts on Mrs Fenn's statement?

Post  Dee Coy on Wed 23 Sep 2015, 8:07 pm

bluebell wrote:The 'unnamed' person who stated elsewhere that Mrs Fenn  and her daughter/niece didn't give statements for 3 months doesn't even have the
honour to say "In my opinion" after such writing such things.

Myself I often get things wrong or misremember details,  but to to categorically state one's opinion as the truth is beyond comprehension.            Rolling Eyes


It's poor research. Risible to not thoroughly check and recheck all the available facts before presenting an argument designed to convince readers of a theory which compromises peoples' integrity. The main thrust of this theory, from what I can gather, is that Mrs Fenn and her neice were tardy with their evidence. (Similar to his whole argument purporting to the Smiths, of course.) When this fundamental is clearly undermined by the presentation of a fact that should have been clearly uncovered by the author during his own research, the whole argument is also undermined.

It's not as if he learns from his mistakes... the other Smith family, anyone?

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Re: Doubts on Mrs Fenn's statement?

Post  Andrew on Thu 24 Sep 2015, 11:59 am

Very well said, Dee.

I guess some people just never learn.
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Re: Doubts on Mrs Fenn's statement?

Post  Heisenburg on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 9:09 am

I see hi de ho is asking about events on the night of Tuesday the 1st,(my belief of when something happened) TB is pulling it apart,but with out any real argument other than to say Mrs Fenn can't be relied upon,I agree but for different reasons.
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Re: Doubts on Mrs Fenn's statement?

Post  Bampots on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 11:35 am

Never fails to fascinate,the subject of Mrs Fenn,kindly but dithering pensioner concerned but unable to act! Listening to the cries of an unattended child for over an hour with not a thought entering her head that something could be wrong,only to finally phone a friend for some reassuring! Proof of neglect by the bucketload if she were telling the truth.Or is Mrs Fenn something more sinister,a deliberate red herring to promulgate neglect?

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Fenn to be merged in a mo

Post  candyfloss on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 11:44 am

Bampots wrote:Never fails to fascinate,the subject of Mrs Fenn,kindly but dithering pensioner concerned but unable to act! Listening to the cries of an unattended child for over an hour with not a thought entering her head that something could be wrong,only to finally phone a friend  for some reassuring! Proof of neglect by the bucketload if she were telling the truth.Or is Mrs Fenn something more sinister,a deliberate red herring to promulgate neglect?

Yes I see Mrs Fenn as part of the huge conspiracy - all those people telling huge porkies and risking serious consequences if found out.......   doh!!! I can just imagine them all sitting round a table (if they could find a table big enough) to all come up with or be given THE PLAN Rolling Eyes

As for getting involved, very hard to push your nose in.  How do you know if there was a babysitter, how do you know if one of the parents were there....  Would you stick your nose in, she was obviously worried and rang a friend, it seems normal to me.



ETA - Don't forget the mystery couple who heard the same and went in to soothe Madeleine??

  http://www.examiner.com/article/do-maddie-mccann-s-parents-know-so-called-mystery-couple

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Re: Doubts on Mrs Fenn's statement?

Post  candyfloss on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 11:52 am

Posts from other thread merged here.

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Re: Doubts on Mrs Fenn's statement?

Post  Bampots on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 12:15 pm

I didn't promote huge conspiracy CF or promote Tex,I'm only a reader of her coloumn and hold no torch for swinging or conspiracy. I have placed the postions Mrs F can be seen. Personally I think dithering and proof of neglect....tho I could be wrong?

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Re: Doubts on Mrs Fenn's statement?

Post  Antonia on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 12:22 pm

candyfloss wrote:
Bampots wrote:Never fails to fascinate,the subject of Mrs Fenn,kindly but dithering pensioner concerned but unable to act! Listening to the cries of an unattended child for over an hour with not a thought entering her head that something could be wrong,only to finally phone a friend  for some reassuring! Proof of neglect by the bucketload if she were telling the truth.Or is Mrs Fenn something more sinister,a deliberate red herring to promulgate neglect?

Yes I see Mrs Fenn as part of the huge conspiracy - all those people telling huge porkies and risking serious consequences if found out.......   doh!!! I can just imagine them all sitting round a table (if they could find a table big enough) to all come up with or be given THE PLAN Rolling Eyes

As for getting involved, very hard to push your nose in.  How do you know if there was a babysitter, how do you know if one of the parents were there....  Would you stick your nose in, she was obviously worried and rang a friend, it seems normal to me.



ETA - Don't forget the mystery couple who heard the same and went in to soothe Madeleine??

  http://www.examiner.com/article/do-maddie-mccann-s-parents-know-so-called-mystery-couple

What you say makes sense to me candyfloss. I remember one evening years ago when I babysat for a couple who were really stuck as their regular sitter was not available. The child was about one and he was teething. He did not know me. he cried on and off all evening even though I was cuddling him/walking around with him etc. I contemplated calling the parents but didn't; they deserved their evening out. When the parents returned he stoppped crying and was all smiles. Now if the neighbours were in, I wonder what they thought hearing him throughout the evening. This was a road of terraced houses. Well they did nothing as neither the police or the parents turned up alerted by neighbours! Parents know that children can be cranky however much attention they are getting. phoning a friend for advice seems reasonable to me.
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Re: Doubts on Mrs Fenn's statement?

Post  candyfloss on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 12:38 pm

Bampots wrote:I didn't promote huge conspiracy CF or promote Tex,I'm only a reader of her coloumn and hold no torch for swinging or conspiracy. I have placed the postions Mrs F can be seen. Personally I think dithering and proof of neglect....tho I could be wrong?

No, I know Bampots, I just quoted your post as you mentioned it.  Sorry if you thought I was getting at you, I am just fed up with this whole thing being treated as a huge cover up and people being called liars because they made statements to the police..... just how many people were in on this, every man and his dog it seems, ranging from aged neighbours, innocent families coming home at night, the nannies, MW, the Government of both countries, SY, doh, it just goes on and on........ Rolling Eyes    KISS.

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Re: Doubts on Mrs Fenn's statement?

Post  Bampots on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 12:50 pm

To be honest I have been in many different lands with this horrific cr#p on many occasions .....i have sometimes thought my wife did it!! affraid Suffice to say I try to stick to the known world(files and print media!) and watch the sci-fy or horror channel for any outlandish visions!

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Re: Doubts on Mrs Fenn's statement?

Post  candyfloss on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 2:29 pm

Cristobell's take on it, here on her new blog....



Cristobell Author ‏@RosalindaHu  · 2h2 hours ago  
CRISTOBELL UNBOUND http://cristobell.blogspot.com
THE EVIDENCE OF MRS FENN   #mccann

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Re: Doubts on Mrs Fenn's statement?

Post  candyfloss on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 3:15 pm

I think Cristobell is spot on with her blog, and it is my thinking too. Mrs Fenn was an innocent party that got besieged by press, police etc. Cristobell makes a good point as to why on earth the McCann's didn't rush around banging on doors asking if anyone had seen or heard anything, especially someone like Mrs Fenn who was right upstairs and had a good view, and nearly always home at night. Instead we hear the story of her having to ask what had happened and Kate giving us the story of the can of beans!

A lot of things being said and quoted from press are probably not accurate, yet are being stated as facts elsewhere... Mrs Fenn may have given her statement 11 or so days after, so did many others, that is the way police work, there would be so many having to give witness statements, do people honestly believe it can be done in a day???? Just think the parents and the tapas 7 alone, let alone others at the waiters and staff at the restaurant, plus all the nannies etc. What of course did happen was the police would have gone around those that were in and asked had anyone seen anything or hear anything, and that is when Mrs Fenn probably told them what she had seen and they then arranged for her to come down to the station. We know the police went round the apartments because Jez and Bridget told us they went to theirs on that night. Yet they too gave statements a long time after, so why are people trying to make out that due to this and hearing crying for over an hour makes her a liar?

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Re: Doubts on Mrs Fenn's statement?

Post  Châtelaine on Mon 25 Jan 2016, 4:22 pm

It's disgusting IMO. Also because it's someone, who can't defend herself anymore ...
There's nothing suspicious about it, apart from the fact, that indeed apparently a small child was crying her heart out for over an hour !
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