CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007

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Re: CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007

Post  Guest on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 8:10 am

Last night, somebody at Wayback was panicking big time. All the pointers to the dates got moved - for instance, you clicked on 30 April, but you were looking at 13 May. Clicking on 13 May took you to 13 June. It was just getting in a bigger and bigger mess. Someone said on Twitter that site owners could ask Wayback to remove them from the archive. I bet Carter Ruck were on the phone late last night, demanding that stuff be removed. And whoever was tampering with it was making a right mess of it. You could just feel the panic unfolding. Several knowledgable twitterers were watching it and making comments, along with some others who plainly haven't a clue but just kept repeating rubbish, relying on the "battering over the head with a big stick" method to try and shut up the knowledgable ones. The whole thing is just bizarre.

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Re: CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007

Post  Guest on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 8:11 am

dogs don't lie wrote:RDH is adamant this page was created on the 30th April 07.
Me, I haven't a clue!

And RDH is 100% right. I don't understand why people are finding this so hard to accept.

No, wait..... I do. It's because the implications are ginormous.

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Re: CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007

Post  Freedom on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 8:12 am

Me neither DDL but, as has been said before, it's interesting stuff.

Let's hope that a definitive answer can be found.
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Re: CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007

Post  dogs don't lie on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 8:21 am

Very interesting but very scary for me. This does need answered, correctly. IMcFs answer stood by the site, then HDH gets a different answer, is this because the realisation of the circumstances was seen?

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Re: CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007

Post  Guest on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 8:25 am

Resistor wrote:
And RDH is 100% right.  I don't understand why people are finding this so hard to accept.

No, wait..... I do.  It's because the implications are ginormous.

In my opinion both yourself and RDH are 100% wrong.  The evidence clearly points at an incorrectly recorded crawl date of 30th April 2007.  I've listed some of the evidence above.

I find it not just hard but impossible to accept because I value the evidence.

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Re: CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007

Post  Guest on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 8:50 am

To demonstrate that this isn't just talk, I'll throw out a challenge to you all:

- Find a version of the home page where the latest news dates are later than the recorded crawl date.

https://web.archive.org/web/20060430074812/http://www.ceop.gov.uk/index.asp

Click on the blue right arrow at the top right, observe the crawl date, and then observe the latest news dates.  Keep clicking through until you find a page with any latest news date that is later than the crawl date.

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Re: CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007

Post  Guest on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 8:55 am

WLBTS wrote:
Resistor wrote:
And RDH is 100% right.  I don't understand why people are finding this so hard to accept.

No, wait..... I do.  It's because the implications are ginormous.

In my opinion both yourself and RDH are 100% wrong.  The evidence clearly points at an incorrectly recorded crawl date of 30th April 2007.  I've listed some of the evidence above.

I find it not just hard but impossible to accept because I value the evidence.
So you are effectively saying that the network timer on the WB server is three days out. Given their line of business? Err.... nah.

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Re: CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007

Post  Freedom on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 8:57 am

Like this, WLBTS?

All this talk of web crawlers is conjuring up unpleasant images!


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Re: CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007

Post  AndyB on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 9:01 am

Something's changed. If you click on the 30/04/2007 for mccann.html it now sends you to https://web.archive.org/web/20070513020901/

http://www.ceop.gov.uk/mccann.html
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Re: CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007

Post  AndyB on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 9:06 am

Freedom - what's the archive date for that page. It looks like its the one from 23/08/2006. If so, all the dates are in the past
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Re: CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007

Post  chirpyinsect on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 9:07 am

Not that I have a clue about the tecchie side but when you look at the crawl dates now there is nothing between 8 April and 12 May yet we all saw the one dated 30 April. Would that not tell us something? If it was just an error it would still be there awaiting a logical explanation.
Someone has asked for those pages to be removed imo.
Buckets of sweat collecting under computer terminals somewhere.

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Re: CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007

Post  Guest on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 9:07 am

Freedom wrote:Like this, WLBTS?

All this talk of web crawlers is conjuring up unpleasant images!


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The crawl date for that page is Aug 24 2006 - you can see that in the top bar. Notice that all the news dates are prior to the crawl date. Now click through the rest of the pages - click on the right pointing blue arrow - and notice that this pattern follows for all pages. All pages *except* the one that was allegedly crawled 30th April 2007.

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Re: CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007

Post  Freedom on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 9:10 am

I was looking at the first capture date at the top - 30/4/06.

I don't suppose I'm looking in the right place, am I?
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Re: CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007

Post  Guest on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 9:11 am

AndyB wrote:Freedom - what's the archive date for that page. It looks like its the one from 23/08/2006. If so, all the dates are in the past

Indeed.  The only page that I have observed so far with news dates later than the crawl date is the home page as crawled 30 April 2007.

This indicates that the news headlines and dates are delivered by the server, not requested by the client.  Which means that the crawl date of 30 April 2007 must have been incorrect, as the home page included news dates that were in the future.

There is other evidence.  Compare the home page 30 April 2007 to the version of 13 October 2007.  Notice that these two are identical except that the 30 April one has an extra news headline from October.  This is more evidence that leads me to conclude that the crawl date of 30 April 2007 was incorrect, and more likely to have been a date from late Oct 2007 onwards.


Last edited by WLBTS on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 9:14 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007

Post  Guest on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 9:13 am

Freedom wrote:I was looking at the first capture date at the top - 30/4/06.

I don't suppose I'm looking in the right place, am I?

I don't think you've got it right - here's the page for that date:

https://web.archive.org/web/20060430074812/http://www.ceop.gov.uk/index.asp

As you can see, latest news dates are prior to 30 April 2006 (24 April 2006, 15 Nov 2005).

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Re: CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007

Post  Dee Coy on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 9:17 am

Of course, if the April 30th date is correct, another certainty is given. In my opinion.

if the 30 April date is correct Jim Gamble is not just another McCann sycophant,  he is in it up to his neck.


Last edited by Dee Coy on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 10:14 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007

Post  Guest on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 9:24 am

Resistor wrote:
So you are effectively saying that the network timer on the WB server is three days out.   Given their line of business?  Err.... nah.

I haven't said that, I've said that a particular crawl date appears to be in error.

Resistor, have you seen the Wayback crawler code?

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Re: CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007

Post  froggy on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 9:25 am

WLBTS wrote:
AndyB wrote:Freedom - what's the archive date for that page. It looks like its the one from 23/08/2006. If so, all the dates are in the past

Indeed.  The only page that I have observed so far with news dates later than the crawl date is the home page as crawled 30 April 2007.

This indicates that the news headlines and dates are delivered by the server, not requested by the client.  Which means that the crawl date of 30 April 2007 must have been incorrect, as the home page included news dates that were in the future.

There is other evidence.  Compare the home page 30 April 2007 to the version of 13 October 2007.  Notice that these two are identical except that the 30 April one has an extra news headline from October.  This is more evidence that leads me to conclude that the crawl date of 30 April 2007 was incorrect, and more likely to have been a date from late Oct 2007 onwards.

Are you saying that ALL crawl data collected for the 30th April from all sites is wrong, or just that of the CEOP page.
If so, that would seem to be one enormous coincidence.
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Re: CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007

Post  Dee Coy on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 9:28 am

https://mobile.twitter.com/JimGamble_INEQE/status/611446745566945280

Ey up. Jim's twittered.

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Re: CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007

Post  candyfloss on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 9:29 am

Hmm the plot thickens.



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Re: CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007

Post  Guest on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 9:32 am

candyfloss wrote:Hmm the plot thickens.

Wayback are agreeing with my conclusion, and you would think that having access to their own code and systems they would know best on this matter.

The timestamp is in error. The rest of the evidence appears to back that up.

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Re: CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007

Post  Dee Coy on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 9:37 am

So of all the archived pages stored by Wayback, many of which have been used as legal evidence, the one that happens to be incorrect just so happens to have immense repercussions for this incredibly sensitive case?

Nah. I'm not buying it. I believe there has been panic and a massive change of tune from Wayback over the last 24 hours. They've been got at.

This can only mean the cover-up is real, it's immense,  and very powerful people are behind it.

No justice for Madeleine,  Brenda or Goncalo,  I fear. This whole episode is, in my opinion, just another confirmation of a whitewash.

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Re: CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007

Post  Guest on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 9:39 am

Dee Coy wrote:So of all the archived pages stored by Wayback, many of which have been used as legal evidence, the one that happens to be incorrect just so happens to have immense repercussions for this incredibly sensitive case?

Nah. I'm not buying it. I believe there has been panic and a massive change of tune from Wayback over the last 24 hours. They've been got at.

This can only mean the cover-up is real, it's immense,  and very powerful people are behind it.

No justice for Madeleine,  Brenda or Goncalo,  I fear. This whole episode is, in my opinion, just another confirmation of a whitewash.

Yes, scary. Even scarier is the idea that Jim Gamble can successfully predict news stories 6 months in advance. With those kind of psychic powers the man must be unstoppable.

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Re: CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007

Post  AndyB on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 9:43 am

Dee Coy wrote:So of all the archived pages stored by Wayback, many of which have been used as legal evidence, the one that happens to be incorrect just so happens to have immense repercussions for this incredibly sensitive case?
There could be thousands more that are incorrectly dated for all we know
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Re: CEOP show Maddie is missing on 30th April 2007

Post  Guest on Thu 18 Jun 2015, 9:45 am

The only way a timestamp could be "in error" is if the entire server is set at the wrong time. Given the business of WB, that is not likely at all. And most servers take their times from a radio-controlled, official clock anyway, which is not that easy to alter. I don't care what that message says, or how hard they are backpedalling, there is NO ERROR and the date is NOT WRONG. Computers are not capable of making mistakes. Humans make mistakes. Like the huge ones that were being made last night, when somebody was making a right pig's ear of altering all the audit trails. Why would they even do that if it was just an innocent mistake? And what is going to happen to all the court cases that have been decided on evidence supplied from Wayback? Are they all going to be unsafe now? Wayback are painted into a corner, no matter what their response is. Perhaps they can begin by explaining how a server clock can apparently be three days out and nobody notices.

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