Pyjamas and other clothing

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Re: Pyjamas and other clothing

Post  Poe on Sat 06 May 2017, 11:19 am

I don't know about the rest of you but I have always kept my work clothes separate from my other outfits.

I wouldn't dream of wearing something on holiday that I had worn to work and that's just from working in an office.

Imagine going on holiday, or cuddling your children, wearing clothes that sick people had coughed and sneezed all over let alone trousers that you've allegedly rubbed against corpses pale


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Re: Pyjamas and other clothing

Post  Freedom on Sat 06 May 2017, 11:25 am

I don't think that ordinary GPs would normally come into contact with dead bodies anyway, would they?

Apart from once in a lifetime cases like Dr Shipman, it can't happen often - six in a week? Ridiculous!

P.S. Hasn't it also been said that Kate hadn't worked as a GP since before the twins were born?
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Re: Pyjamas and other clothing

Post  Winslow Boy on Sat 06 May 2017, 11:36 am

Freedom wrote:I don't think that ordinary GPs would normally come into contact with dead bodies anyway, would they?

Apart from once in a lifetime cases like Dr Shipman, it can't happen often - six in a week? Ridiculous!


As I said before Jon Corner said: and on clothing that Kate bought AFTER Madeleine disappeared. This I think would be what was reported to the families, as they would have had equal suspicion of where the contact with 6 cadavers took place. Pass me the scalpal please nurse, swab,scissors,and cuddle cat.
No wonder there are so many flesh eating diseases in hospital if surgeons etc. are dealing with diseased corpses in their going out clothes, and then doing the rounds. Who's patients were the dead bodies.... in one week


Last edited by Winslow Boy on Sat 06 May 2017, 11:42 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : addition)

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Re: Pyjamas and other clothing

Post  mumof6 on Sat 06 May 2017, 10:37 pm

GPs can come into contact with dead bodies:

I have linked to the BMA website which is basically saying that the law does not require the GP to check the dead body but the GP needs to anyway, unless there is to be an autopsy.

At least that is how I read it?



https://www.bma.org.uk/advice/employment/gp-practices/service-provision/confirmation-and-certification-of-death

Confirmation and certification of death
This guidance aims to clarify the distinction between confirming and certifying death in relation to GPs’ obligations.

English law:

does not require a doctor to confirm death has occurred or that “life is extinct”
does not require a doctor to view the body of a deceased person
does not require a doctor to report the fact that death has occurred
does require the doctor who attended the deceased during the last illness to issue a certificate detailing the cause of death


Expected deaths of patients

If the death occurs in the patient’s own home, it is wise to visit as soon as the urgent needs of living patients permit.

If the death occurs in a residential or nursing home and the GP who attended the patient during the last illness is available, it is sensible for him or her to attend when practicable and issue a MCCD.

If an “on-call” doctor is on duty, whether in or out of hours, it is unlikely that any useful purpose will be served by that doctor attending the nursing or residential home. In such cases we recommend that the GP advises the home to contact the undertaker if they wish the body to be removed and ensures that the GP with whom the patient was registered is notified as soon as practicable.



Unexpected (“sudden”) deaths

If death occurs in the patient’s home, or in a residential or nursing home, we recommend a visit by the GP with whom the patient was registered, to examine the body and confirm death, although this is not a statutory requirement.

Unlike expected deaths, in the event of an unexpected death out-of-hours it would be helpful if an OOH GP does attend, therefore helping to prevent the potentially unnecessary attendance of the emergency services.

The GP should then report the death to the coroner (usually through the local police).

In any other circumstances, the request to attend is likely to have come from the police or ambulance service. It is usually wise, and especially in the case of an on-call doctor, to decline to attend and advise that the services of a Forensic Medical Examiner police surgeon be obtained by the caller.




Now quite why a locum GP would do that is anyone's guess, as the guidance further down specifically talks about on call doctors not being much use.

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Re: Pyjamas and other clothing

Post  poster on Sun 07 May 2017, 7:54 pm

Freedom wrote:I don't think that ordinary GPs would normally come into contact with dead bodies anyway, would they?

Apart from once in a lifetime cases like Dr Shipman, it can't happen often - six in a week? Ridiculous!

P.S. Hasn't it also been said that Kate hadn't worked as a GP since before the twins were born?

Very rarely do they. Obviously it can happen but it is rare - six in a week, no way unless it was Dr Shipman and even he I don't think was amassing that many....one of my relatives was a GP for 40 years - never came into contact with a dead body. It's not what they do.

Yes, it's not impossible for a doctor to make a home visit and then for that person to die while the doctor makes the home visit (this happened a lot with Shipman...). And it is not impossible for someone to die in the GP surgery - sudden heart attack, say.

But these are unlikely. A GP is not the port of call for someone who is grievously ill. They tend to be in a hospital or a hospice where there will already be well-defined arrangements in place in the event of death.

No way would a part-time GP have come into contact with six corpses in the week/s prior to Madeleine's alleged abduction. In any case, there would be a record of this at the GP surgery so anyone working in the practice would be able to check this out (can't believe any of them believe the story though, wonder what practice it was?)
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Re: Pyjamas and other clothing

Post  What's_up_doc? on Sun 07 May 2017, 9:07 pm

By the time they came to do the famous interview with Sandra Felgueiras, they seem to have forgotten all about Kate coming into contact with up to six dead bodies whilst wearing her holiday clothes!

 Portuguese TV, 05 November 2009:
Sandra Felgueiras: This is the first time that you give us a big interview, not being arguidos [suspects], since then. So now I feel free to ask you this directly: How can you explain the coincidence of the scent of cadaver found by British and not Portuguese dogs?
Kate McCann: Sandra, maybe you should be asking the judiciary because they've examined all this...
Sandra Felgueiras: But those were not an explanation for that.
Kate McCann: I mean, we are obviously Madeleine's mum and dad and we're desperate for people to help us find Madeleine, which is why we're here today. The majority of people are inherently good and I believe the majority of people in Portugal are inherently good people and we're asking them if they'll help us spread this message to that person or people that knows something.
Sandra Felgueiras: So you don't have any explanation for that?
Gerry McCann: Ask the dogs, Sandra.
Sandra Felgueiras: Ask the dogs? No, Gerry. Now I think, well, I feel free to ask you. Don't you feel free to answer me?
Gerry McCann: I can tell you that we have obviously looked at evidence about cadaver dogs and they are incredibly unreliable.
Sandra Felgueiras: Unreliable?
Gerry McCann: Cadaver dogs, yes. That's what the evidence shows, if they are tested scientifically.

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Re: Pyjamas and other clothing

Post  mumof6 on Sun 07 May 2017, 10:32 pm

Is there a bit missed out here? To me it makes no sense, Kate's "I mean we are obviously" is not answer to what has gone before, have they missed out something in the middle of this that Kate is answering?
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Re: Pyjamas and other clothing

Post  Freedom on Sun 07 May 2017, 10:52 pm

That is the waffling whining rubbish she came out with.

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Re: Pyjamas and other clothing

Post  What's_up_doc? on Mon 08 May 2017, 8:16 am

It is a very shocking interview and shows up how they respond to genuine questions. KM seems to rely on a mantra that  'good people' will help them and that is why they are being interviewed, to propagate their message to all the 'good people' to continue helping them and to continue being 'good' and virtuous. She does it all the time, good people align themselves with the McCanns and bad people doubt them and challenge them. Sandra is clearly 'bad'and doesn't even warrant an answer for diverting the narrative away from their 'good' search. KM thanks all the 'good people' for their support whilst stoically ignoring all the 'bad people' like Sandra or heaven forbid Amaral because she can use all the good people's money to sue the bad people if they get too noisy. It's basic propaganda that thankfully, now seems to be backfiring as more and more 'good people' revolt and challenge their increasingly tarnished looking narrative.

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Re: Pyjamas and other clothing

Post  Freedom on Mon 08 May 2017, 8:26 am

I was glad that it was included in the Panorama programme as it really shows the pair of them up - Gerry for his insufferable arrogance and Kate for the reasons you state, W_u_d.
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Re: Pyjamas and other clothing

Post  Helenmeg on Mon 08 May 2017, 10:15 am

The key point from the 'dog alerts' has always been that any parents whose child had gone missing, having found out that dogs alerted to blood scent / cadaver scent/ i their apartment - would be horrified that something had happened to harm their daughter. The reaction of this pair was simply to deny the reliability of dogs.
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Re: Pyjamas and other clothing

Post  What's_up_doc? on Mon 08 May 2017, 10:31 am

That's right Helenmeg you would, as parents be looking for alternative explanations such as who had the car at around the time of the disappearance? How did the blood get there? Ask the dogs Sandra is so sarcastic it is not the response of a parent who is looking for answers. Because in the McCanns' heads, they had the answer within minutes of the disappearance and they have shown a rigidity of thinking ever since.

On the subject of the clothes, I was thinking if it could be established when KM wore these clothes, it would be very revealing in terms of the timeline. She wore the Capri pants May 4, I wonder if she had worn them and washed them before then?

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Re: Pyjamas and other clothing

Post  mumof6 on Mon 08 May 2017, 10:41 am

I'm sure I saw somewhere that Amaral says that one of the mistakes made early in the investigation was that none of the Tapas 7 were photographed that night, so what they were wearing will never be known.

Of course it is a mistake only in retrospect, the proportion of missing children's cases where the parents are suspected to be involved is a tiny proportion of missing children's cases. Still, the police were suspicious of them within the first hour, so I suspect that another similar case in Portugal would have a very different police response.

Potentially, that could be making an innocent families ordeal much harder.

There are not many people who manage to make the world a worse place on quite such a scale.



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Re: Pyjamas and other clothing

Post  Freedom on Mon 08 May 2017, 10:46 am

I thought that generally speaking parental involvement comprises a large part in missing children cases, not a tiny proportion.
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Re: Pyjamas and other clothing

Post  mumof6 on Mon 08 May 2017, 2:01 pm

Freedom wrote:I thought that generally speaking parental involvement comprises a large part in missing children cases, not a tiny proportion.  


Of the ones that stay missing, there is a very large proportion of parental involvement.




Of the total number reported, where the majority turn up within hours, they don't - especially in holiday areas, where parents are often more relaxed, children are given a bit more freedom, and they get lost in strange places. Even if you include children taken by the non-custodial parent who mess up the statistics the vast number of children who go missing are just lost.

That is why Mark Warner had a missing child procedure, they were not expecting an abduction, just a common or garden wandering off.


So when you initially report a lost child (as I have had to do, he managed to get lost, aged 12, on a 20 metre walk to the loo) the assumption is that the child is in the area, and will be found.

When they don't turn up, or turn up dead, then everything changes, because statistically the people who are most likely to harm children are the family.

From the Mail:

In 2010/11, 91 per cent of missing incidents reported to the police were closed within 48 hours, with 99 per cent of all missing cases solved within one year.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638708/Faces-Britains-lost-children-Missing-People-launches-The-Big-Tweet-campaign.html


Sadly it is not a very good article as they don't specify what they mean by missing, or child, and don't always specify whether statistics are for all people, or just children.


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Re: Pyjamas and other clothing

Post  dogs don't lie on Mon 08 May 2017, 10:10 pm

Mimi wrote:@WUD

You're not meant to know what happened Kate!

Excellent WUD

And didn't she say outside the court that she knows what happened because she was there?

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Re: Pyjamas and other clothing

Post  What's_up_doc? on Mon 08 May 2017, 11:01 pm

Freedom wrote:I thought that generally speaking parental involvement comprises a large part in missing children cases, not a tiny proportion.  
In 70% of cases it is someone known to the child and parents and carers are usually investigated first because they are the most likely to be responsible.

dogs don't lie I've not heard that before but it sounds about right. You couldn't make it up! Maybe that's why Gerry told SF to ask the dogs, because he was worried she might ask Kate instead.

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Re: Pyjamas and other clothing

Post  poster on Thu 05 Apr 2018, 9:28 pm

bluebell wrote:Not sure if this is relevant here, but concerns clothing and I've always thought it strange..  




Processos Vol III

Pages 560 -561

Witness statement

Vera María Mestre Fernandes Arez


Date: 2007/05/08

Occupation: Laundry Worker


Place of Work: Ocean Club

She has worked at the Ocean Club for six years with the function of cleaner in the rooms and apartments of Waterside Village and for the last 4 years her function is laundry worker. Her working hours are from 09.30 to 13.00 and from 14.30 to 18.00. The laundry, her place of work, is situated in the Ocean Club Gardens.

That as laundry worker her functions are to wash, dry all the linen from the rooms and apartments (sheets, towels and clothes from some of the clients) and from the Ocean Club restaurants (towels). All the laundry work takes place in the laundry where she works with three colleagues.

That she knows about the situation that occurred in the Ocean Club since 04/05/2007 at 09.30 as she was informed by a colleague from the laundry that a child had disappeared.

That she does not know the circumstances in which the girl disappeared only having heard about it in the press and from colleagues.

That she remembers that on Saturday 05/05/2007 having washed clothing belonging to the missing girl’s family and she checked that it was children’s and adult’s clothing. This service was carried out by her colleague Silvia Cravinho. That on the next day Sunday it was her colleague Bernadete Calado who went to deliver the clothing directly to the missing girl’s apartment.


That before that no clothing from the missing girl’s family had been washed and after that date there was no other washing of clothes from the family.


That she never had any contact with the family or with the missing girl as she never leaves the laundry except to have lunch.

Surely it is not the norm for a Mark Warner resort like the Ocean Club to wash client's clothes along with the sheets and towels? I know that upmarket hotels will often offer a laundry service (at an extra price) but I do not believe this would be the norm at a mid-price range hotel like Ocean Club.  A hotel laundry service at a resort like the Ocean Club would be to wash the bed-linen and towels from the clients' rooms. Not their clothes. Why did the McCann family - apparently devastated by the alleged abduction of their daughter two days earlier - find the presence of mind to feel the need to get their clothes washed on the Saturday? Who would prioritize clothes washing over finding their daughter?

And let's not forget that Russell was busy with his washing machine on the night that Madeleine was allegedly abducted apparently.

All this washing going on.not to mention laundering....
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Re: Pyjamas and other clothing

Post  poster on Thu 05 Apr 2018, 9:43 pm

Freedom wrote:That is the waffling whining rubbish she came out with.


OMG - listen to what Kate says at around the 1.42 mark. The 'somebody who knows something' is not the person who 'took Madeleine' but someone on the periphery....

What a gaff....

Also notice Gerry's expression - especially if the slow down the footage. Priceless!
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Well wrung out...?

Post  Rosa canina on Thu 05 Apr 2018, 10:54 pm

Hello Poster - yes, the McCanns and their multitude of laundering arrangements...!


(bet you a bottle of NZ Sav that Gerry has never operated a washing machine in his life)


Mrs 'wash-it-good' Kate's on film (Panorama documentary) dutifully pegging it in public :




With the Madonna blue sky behind her our Mrs Mop looks like a woeful Our Lady of the Laundry :

"

Quite the camera angle, must've been kneeling...

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Re: Pyjamas and other clothing

Post  poster on Fri 06 Apr 2018, 12:00 am

Well - they are religious - Catholic even....

All squeaky clean then....no laundering, no nothing untoward.......

The Priest can vouch for that.
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Re: Pyjamas and other clothing

Post  chrissie on Fri 06 Apr 2018, 12:33 pm

Kate is working in a Leicester hospital, in what capacity I don't know. But this is from a trusted friend who had to take her Mother for a hospital appointment. I can't say any more.
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Re: Pyjamas and other clothing

Post  Freedom on Fri 06 Apr 2018, 12:35 pm

Cleaning the floors hopefully!

There have been reports that she is working again, but not as a GP.
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Re: Pyjamas and other clothing

Post  chrissie on Fri 06 Apr 2018, 12:40 pm

Agreed Freedom! This is from my recent visit to Leicester, I can't spill any more beans just now Smile
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Re: Pyjamas and other clothing

Post  Winslow Boy on Fri 06 Apr 2018, 12:53 pm

Freedom wrote:Cleaning the floors hopefully!

There have been reports that she is working again, but not as a GP.
Probably doing the Laundry.

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