BREXIT - The European Union referendum

candyfloss wrote:Yes, I think the decision is theirs, a referendum is only advisory and does not have to be adhered to.  Waste of flippin time innit!

My understanding of democracy is that we elect Members of Parliament to carry out our instructions . If they don't do this and go against the will of the people that is NOT democracy. It's no good bleating on about the close call of the referendum . It was a definite majority vote for OUT. I think Members of Parliament should tread very carefully now if they do not want this country to face possible revolution. Next time we have an election ( 23rd Feb) shall we stand by the majority vote or demand another go now that they've set the precedent for ignoring votes? Cameron didn't state it was an advisory referendum . In fact he spoke of instigating Article 50 immediately and no one in Parliament batted an eyelid. They were that sure that it was 'in the bag.' Theresa May will do exactly what she's always done. Talk the talk and follow up with .................nothing.

Theresa May will do exactly what she's always done. Talk the talk and follow up with .................nothing.

She'd better not!

After 50 years of voting, last June I chose the winning side for the first time! What worries me though, is that if France votes to leave too and with other countries lined up to vote, that TPTB in Brussels will decide to change enough things to make leaving almost a pointless exercise.

And possibly the point of it all along. We are crazy if we think people power means anything.
I voted Remain and am not ashamed of that. My reasons are personal to my unique circumstances coupled with what I truly believe is better for the UK.
What I hated about the whole thing was the divisions it created in society. Again a standard tactic. They always knew it would be close and a recipe for disaster. Why do you think they didn't invoke the super-majority 10% rule?
As a divided nation arguing with each other we are far less likely to be watching what is really happening in the corridors of power.

Freedom wrote:Have I understood this correctly? The Government has the final say on whether or not the U K leaves the European Union?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-38723261#"

I thought it was Parliament, not the government. A Bill now has to go through Parliament and voted on, but is likely to pass easily.

I too voted Remain for personal family reasons but the way I saw the whole thing was like a divorce. Something you see with actual divorces/separations. Its seems that when things get tough or they don't like the way things are its easier just to chuck the towel in rather than try to fix things. Its the same with the whole 'we don't like the way the EU thingy/people (thingy being a non technical term) run things'. Fine then fix the way the EU thingy/people do things. Why not have a whole EU member country referendum on changing the way the EU is run, starting with an elected EU body.

Benevolent wrote:I too voted Remain for personal family reasons but the way I saw the whole thing was like a divorce. Something you see with actual divorces/separations. Its seems that when things get tough or they don't like the way things are its easier just to chuck the towel in rather than try to fix things. Its the same with the whole 'we don't like the way the EU thingy/people (thingy being a non technical term) run things'. Fine then fix the way the EU thingy/people do things. Why not have a whole EU member country referendum on changing the way the EU is run, starting with an elected EU body.

I think that would be a major task, far more difficult than us getting out. It`s far too big, complicated and probably corrupt with interests and connections all tangled up - it would be like trying to unravel the Clinton/Bush mafias. You can see how nasty the Brussels heads are becoming over us leaving. I`m a believer in staying small - anything that gets too big, gets corrupted. I liked Europe for it`s individual nation states, each with their own languages, currency and customs - vive la difference. No way do I consider myself `european` even though my DNA is probably rooted in northern europe.

I cannot find a thread for Brexit - mods, if there is one under another name, please transfer.

This German MEP has just had a go at Juncker, Barnier & co for causing the UK to leave the UK in the first place and for acting in such an arrogant way and trying to punish the UK.  Excellent



and here he is again on RT. He makes sense.




It took me a while but I found the original topic!

Expose by the Sunday Times...





The Sunday Times‏Verified account
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Follow Follow @thesundaytimes

Former cabinet ministers have been exposed attempting to profit from a new cash for Brexit gravy train in Westminster, following an undercover investigation https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ex-cabinet-ministers-ride-brexit-gravy-train-l68l6v3hn

Don't know if anyone is fed up to the back teeth with this Brexit stuff.  Do you think we should vote again.  Have you had a change of heart?


Is John Major right to say have another referendum?




Sir John Major: Give MPs a free vote on Brexit deal

• 24 minutes ago
  

            
    



MPs should be given a free vote on whether to accept or reject the final Brexit deal, Sir John Major has said.
The ex-prime minister argues that MPs must vote with their "own conscience" on whether the deal on offer will leave the UK better or worse off.
And, in a speech in London, he said they could decide on a new referendum.
Leading Tory backbencher and Brexit backer, Jacob Rees-Mogg, said Sir John had been wrong on Europe in the past "and he is getting it wrong again".
Sir John, whose time as Conservative prime minister from 1990 to 1997 featured long-running battles with Eurosceptics in his party, has long been a critic of the UK's decision to leave the EU, having campaigned alongside David Cameron on the Remain side in the 2016 referendum.

Brexit has become the most "divisive" political issue of his lifetime, he said in the speech to the Creative Industries Federation.

He said the promises made by Leave campaigners during the referendum had yet to be met and were unlikely to be, describing the aspiration to spend an extra £350m a week on the NHS as a "ridiculous phantom".
"Many electors know they were misled: Many more are beginning to realise it. So, the electorate has every right to reconsider their decision."
Sir John challenged what he said was the argument Brexit would have little impact on the UK, arguing that while the British people would "get through it", it was likely to leave the country "weaker and less prosperous" and a "diminished" force on the world stage.

'Unique decision'

Given the emerging evidence that Brexit will "hurt most those who have the least", he said the government must "change course" and rethink its negotiating strategy, based on what was practically achievable rather than what he said were the demands of a "minority of ultra-Brexiteers".
While he did not enjoy being "out of step" with his party, the stakes were so high than he felt obliged to speak out at such a crucial moment in the negotiations.
"Leaving Europe is an issue so far-reaching, so permanent, so over-arching that it will have an impact on all our lives - most especially on the young and the future," he said.
"With only 12 months to go, we need answers, not aspirations."
While he was not actively calling for a further referendum, he said the "option" must remain open to a "sovereign" Parliament to insist upon.

'Wrong again'

The "meaningful" vote promised by Theresa May on the final agreement must be "a decisive vote, in which Parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum so the public may approve what has been determined".
"Brexit is a unique decision," he added. "It will affect the lives of the British nation for generations to come. If it flops - there will be the most terrible backlash.
"If Brexit is whipped through Parliament, at a time when the public are so divided about it, voters will know who to blame if they end up poorer and weaker. So, both democracy and prudence suggest a free vote.
"The deep divisions in our nation are more likely to be healed by a Brexit freely approved by Parliament, than a Brexit forced through Parliament at the behest of a minority of convinced opponents of Europe."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43229964






British people have 'every right' to reverse Brexit in second referendum, John Major says

'Let Parliament decide.  Or put the issue back to the people'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/john-major-brexit-speech-second-referendum-commons-vote-eu-theresa-may-conservative-a8232791.html

candyfloss wrote:
Is John Major right to say have another referendum?

Since he insists on sprouting this unwelcome, unwarranted rubbish, I'll have to assume the same about him as I do about the similarly irritating T Blair - that he must be some kind of weird pervert with a skeleton in his closet and an arm up his back.

No one has any right to suggest a 2nd referendum - it would make a laughing stock of our democracy. How dare he - and that idiot Blair - both probably being blackmailed by George Soros.

Silly man - I always imagine him in bed with Edwina Curry - her on top of course
Hope that`s not too rude for this forum.

What a laughing stock this country has become.  Infighting and squabbling, jockeying for the No1 job.

So David Davis has resigned along with 2 others from his department.  Statements at the weekend saying how united they all are...…..




What a pile of poo this lot are!  Couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery!


So on with the next one, and when will Boris Johnson resign one wonders after calling the events of the weekend meeting a 'turd'



Dominic Raab replaces David Davis as Brexit Secretary

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44763998

A lose lose situation for the Conservatives, as it would now be for any party in power. The vote to leave was virtually a 50-50 split, but the leavers came out on top. The vote was to leave, a clean break or remain. Clean break was the result, no ifs or buts.
A clean break would now alienate the remainers,losing the conservatives millions of votes.On the other hand they (The Conservatives) are now trying to pacify those remainers with concessions,this will not go down well with the leavers. The people voted, Democracy dictates that the voice of the people is carried out. If it is not then the House of Commons,Lords etc. are not fit to govern,as will be demonstrated in the next Election. The remainers instead of complaining should suck it up and get on with it because if this Government fails to carry out the will of the people everybodies vote in the future will be meaningless and we will be one more step towards a Dictatorship.

I'm not sure that Labour are ready if the tories fall,will the Labour actually come out and say if you want Brexit then we are the party for you,if May goes and the Tories hang on with I suspect Rees Mogg in charge can they then hold out and deliver,I voted to leave,the bastards care not I suspect.

Mark Twain:If voting made a difference, they wouldn't let us do it.

And indeed he's gone...

Boris Johnson resigns as foreign secretary over May's Brexit plans


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/09/boris-johnson-resigns-as-foreign-secretary-brexit

Oh dear what a mess.

What a useless bunch.  They huff and they puff, but when it comes down to it they are cowards. Tim Farron and Vince Cable did not attend the crucial vote -  They should be ashamed...








Sebastian Payne‏Verified account @SebastianEPayne · 4h4 hours ago

This should be the end of Vince Cable's turgid leadership of the Liberal Democrats. Utterly appalling that two key MPs (including the leader!) missed such a crucial vote.

Punters will rightly be asking what is the point of the party. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/17/lib-dems-cable-and-farron-attacked-for-missing-brexit-vote …






Rachael Swindon‏ @Rachael_Swindon · 10h10 hours ago

Despite having the opportunity to vote against the Tories Brexit last night, neither Vince Cable or Tim Farron did so. All words, especially when it comes to blaming Jeremy Corbyn. Judge them by their actions.

What a right cock up this is...……….


Keir Starmer‏Verified account @Keir_Starmer · 40m40 minutes ago



Keir Starmer Retweeted Nick Robinson

This evening the Brexit Secretary voted against his Government’s own motion on Brexit, which earlier in the day he had defended in the House of Commons.

That’s the equivalent of the Chancellor voting against his own Budget. This is a Government that has lost complete control









Nick Robinson‏Verified account @bbcnickrobinson · 60m60 minutes ago

I’ve heard it all now. The Brexit Secretary has just voted against the motion that he’d just been arguing for. Anyone got a better word than Omnishambles?

Ha what a spot of luck eh, people cant get to sighn petition....Bad Gateway Petitions site down. Yeah!!!!



‏ @bipolarvoice · 7m7 minutes ago


Bad Gateway message has been replaced by this. I still haven't been given an opportunity to sign because it keeps crashing.
#RevokeArticle50 #BrexitShambles






Simon Haywood #FBPE #Remain #ABTV‏ @auditgeek · 10m10 minutes ago




Replying to @fascinatorfun

Petition site is “down for maintenance “ Earlier attempts to sign met with a “bad gateway “ error. I can’t help but wonder if this is deliberate











Mick Curran‏ @md_curran · 9m9 minutes ago


Oops. Looks like the Revoke Article 50 got too many signatures :p "Petitions is down for maintenance" before that I got a 502 bad Gateway. Perhaps they only used a 19 bit field