Madeleine McCann Books

dogs don't lie wrote:

Châtelaine, I love dogs

***
So do I, DDL. They're my number 2 after my human friends :-)

Châtelaine wrote:

Satsuma wrote:

Châtelaine wrote:Yes, I do, Andrew.
And I've been promising since years on my favorite discussion fora, that I WILL throw a party :-)
As things are now here, I can put up 25 people to sleep, most of them with private WC and bathroom ...
So I'll have to be choosy ;-)

Looks as if I'm not going to be invited then

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Well, let's be honest: you're not high on my list. But, you know, sometimes, I do like a challenge ;-0

I am happy to spend the night in the shed, and I am very cheap to cater for because I only drink orange juice

Perhaps we should have a "party" thread, rather than obstructing a Ben Needham thread.

Satsuma, you do realise, that after meeting you in the flesh, I might decide to feed you water and bread in one of my cellars ... ?

ETA No, not the one with the wine!

I think Satsuma might end next to your 'friend' in the gardens somewhere.

Reliable dogs will locate him though.

Just joking, Sat. Having a laugh.

Please may i get an en-suite with my invite.

Satsuma wrote:

Châtelaine wrote:

Satsuma wrote:

Châtelaine wrote:Yes, I do, Andrew.
And I've been promising since years on my favorite discussion fora, that I WILL throw a party :-)
As things are now here, I can put up 25 people to sleep, most of them with private WC and bathroom ...
So I'll have to be choosy ;-)

Looks as if I'm not going to be invited then

***
Well, let's be honest: you're not high on my list. But, you know, sometimes, I do like a challenge ;-0

I am happy to spend the night in the shed, and I am very cheap to cater for because I only drink orange juice

You forgot about the Cointreau..


satsuma wrote@
Back from a splendid lunch - main course Duck a L'Orange, a slice of Lemon Drizzle cake and a small glass of Cointreau - perfect. Ready to resume battle, so here goes

I'd be happy to spend the Cointreau. Nobody I know likes it and it's been sitting in my cellar for ages ... I don't even use it for cooking "posh".

****
Have a look at www.thetruthisoutthereblog.com
Good night :-)

Merci beaucoup chère Châteleine.

Bon nuit et faites de beaux rêves!

Bonne nuit à toi aussi :-)

Snipped from Chatelaine's post yest:

I don't know Scharrenberg, but have been talking to him occasionally. I do know the people, who contributed to the English version very well, though.

Excuse me, if I don't divulge any more information for the moment ...

Could a former Policeman (same first name as Scharrenberg), who has disappeared but apparently working behind the scenes... be involved in the contribution to the English version....

http://www.epubli.co.uk/shop/buch/The-Truth-Is-Out-There-Peter-Scharrenberg-9783741801419/50994

You can read some of his book on this link. 176 approved pages it says.

Also on his blog thing.... There's an interesting exchange with a dog expert.

Snipped from Dog expert:

To conclude we may say, now knowing this, that if the scent of death found in apartment 5A was Madeleine's, she cannot possibly have died on the evening or in the late afternoon of May 3rd, it's forensically just not possible. It has to be much earlier on the day; it's possible and even more likely that she died sometime on May 2nd. Simply because otherwise there was not enough time for the body to produce such a strong scent long enough ánd on one location, that still could alert a sniffer dog three months later, at least according to Adela Morris. [In fact there were two locations in the apartment where Eddie the sniffer dog alerted which means that Madeleine must have been on that second location for a considerable time also.]

All on this link:

http://www.thetruthisoutthereblog.com/#!Forensic-expert-I-am-not-buying-it/mg7uc/5734d14f0cf2ab35c745b99a

Andrew wrote:Snipped from Chatelaine's post yest:

I don't know Scharrenberg, but have been talking to him occasionally. I do know the people, who contributed to the English version very well, though.

Excuse me, if I don't divulge any more information for the moment ...

Could a former Policeman (same first name as Scharrenberg), who has disappeared but apparently working behind the scenes... be involved in the contribution to the English version....

Peter Scharrenberg does exist. Here's his website:

http://pscharrjournalist.weebly.com/

He also does web design/hosting if you're interested:

http://www.infobel.com/nl/netherlands/yourhostmedia/amstelveen/NL101248210/businessdetails.aspx

And here is his business on facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/yourhostmedianl-821582651245669/

Oh and he's also a chief editor (hoofdredacteur, see top right of page) here:

http://www.laanvankronenburg.net/

Busy man.

Hi S.

Yes, I know PS exists. Was wondering if PM was assisting in this new English version.. etc.

Andrew wrote:Hi S.

Yes, I know PS exists. Was wondering if PM was assisting in this new English version.. etc.

Hi A.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply you didn't know.
I just find it odd that someone who has over 25 years of experience as a journalist didn't have an online presence until some time last year.

No idea if PM is involved. Could be one of his mysterious projects.
He commented on an article in the Portugal Resident about it, but doesn't seem to promote the book.

http://portugalresident.com/new-maddie-book-claims-to-have-nugget-police-have-been-waiting-for

Andrew wrote:Also on his blog thing.... There's an interesting exchange with a dog expert.

Snipped from Dog expert:

To conclude we may say, now knowing this, that if the scent of death found in apartment 5A was Madeleine's, she cannot possibly have died on the evening or in the late afternoon of May 3rd, it's forensically just not possible. It has to be much earlier on the day; it's possible and even more likely that she died sometime on May 2nd. Simply because otherwise there was not enough time for the body to produce such a strong scent long enough ánd on one location, that still could alert a sniffer dog three months later, at least according to Adela Morris. [In fact there were two locations in the apartment where Eddie the sniffer dog alerted which means that Madeleine must have been on that second location for a considerable time also.]

All on this link:

http://www.thetruthisoutthereblog.com/#!Forensic-expert-I-am-not-buying-it/mg7uc/5734d14f0cf2ab35c745b99a

How very interesting,  Andrew.

So this expert says that for cadaverine to be detectable 3 months later the body must have been in situ for some time in the strongest places detected by Eddie, namely behind the sofa and in the wardrobe. This also would explain the weaker scents in the flowerbed as the body would not have remained there very long at all.

But the main thing I've taken from this is that for such residuesmto be there it is the body itself that left the scent, not secondary transfer via clothing or a casual brush against a surface.

This does, of course, dismiss any speculation of the type we have seen over the last few weeks that the scent could have been left by something else that had been in contact with the body,  not the body itself,  therefore any corpse may not have been in 5A at all.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that a certain poster would have done well to listen to AndyB and his recommendation that the pithy one simply accepts the argument that the cadaverine was left by, erm, a cadaver all along as the simplest explanation.

The opinion of this expert has just left a squashed orange pulp underfoot, I'd say.

Great find Andrew.

Dee Coy wrote:In fact, I would go so far as to say that a certain poster would have done well to listen to AndyB and his recommendation that the pithy one simply accepts the argument that the cadaverine was left by, erm, a cadaver all along as the simplest explanation.

Thanks. at least someone was listening

I'm sure there were many posters listening Andy B and getting somewhat 'exasperated' along the way. I don't know how you managed to remain so cool. Hats off to you.

Regarding the dog expert - I would like to see some other dog experts collaborate that about the length of time.....

Andrew wrote:Regarding the dog expert - I would like to see some other dog experts collaborate that about the length of time.....

I understood that cad odour takes approx 90 minutes to develop after death but that once it has transfer is instaneous. We know cuddlecat was washed and presumably Kate's clothes, so are we saying that Kate may have held M, who in turn was holding CC for a significant time? Not impossible I suppose. I ask because the only weaker indication by Eddie that was mentioned by Mr Grime was the flowerbed and veranda. If that is the case then could M have been wearing the red tshirt as it was also alerted to?
We must pay no attention to the jammies as it is onky TM who say she was wearibg them when abducted. In truth she could have been wearing day clothes. But why no skirt, shorts or trousers alerted to?

According to this cad odour takes at least 120 mins,I'm not suggesting this is the foremost paper but it's a start.

The most interesting question of all remains: that of how long must an individual be dead for his / her scent to be detectable by a trained cadaver dog ? Answering this pertinent question was not part of our investigation, but we can point out that a postmortem interval of 2 h seems to be a safely recognizable interval for the detection of deceased tissue by trained cadaver dog

http://www.pawsoflife.org/Library/HRD/Oesterhelweg%201998.pdf

Yeah, the stuff that iv'e read in the past re: Cadaver dogs, have all stated about 90 mins to 2 hours...

However this expert mentioned above said it's forensically impossible for Madeleine to have died on the 3rd due to the strength of the scent.

It's that I would like to see collaborated......

Is it impossible she died on the 3rd and so therefore she have had to have died before that date......

If you get what I mean.

My guess [and 'm not the only one] is that she died the day before.

costello wrote:

AndyB wrote:

Dee Coy wrote:In fact, I would go so far as to say that a certain poster would have done well to listen to AndyB and his recommendation that the pithy one simply accepts the argument that the cadaverine was left by, erm, a cadaver all along as the simplest explanation.

Thanks. at least someone was listening

I'm sure there were many posters listening Andy B and getting somewhat 'exasperated' along the way. I don't know how you managed to remain so cool. Hats off to you.

Thank you. I thought I'd come across as quite terse, abrupt even, thus betraying the exasperation I was feeling at the time. I'm glad I came across as cool

Andrew wrote:Yeah, the stuff that iv'e read in the past re: Cadaver dogs, have all stated about 90 mins to 2 hours...

However this expert mentioned above said it's forensically impossible for Madeleine to have died on the 3rd due to the strength of the scent.

It's that I would like to see collaborated......

Is it impossible she died on the 3rd and so therefore she have had to have died before that date......

If you get what I mean.

Can't see why its impossible to have died on the 3rd,can a dog distinguish about the length of time,a human can of course but I guess what the expert is saying the longer a cadaver is in one place the stronger the mark in that place than say a cadaver being placed say for arguments sake in the garden for a matter of minutes.Or does it matter not, for a dog will alert no matter the length of time?