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Post  Freedom on Wed 30 Dec 2015, 10:28 am

Can I ask what you think of the Jeremy Bamber case, poster?

There are many people who think that he was wrongly convicted for the murders of his adoptive family in 1985 but, unlike Ian Huntley, JB does still proclaim his innocence.

Here is his website.

http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/
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Post  poster on Wed 30 Dec 2015, 1:29 pm

I have looked at that case over on the justice forum. I seem to remember not being able to make up my mind! I don't think it is as clear cut as the two cases mentioned above which just scream out (to me at any rate) miscarriage of justice. I'll take another look at it.
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Post  poster on Wed 30 Dec 2015, 2:23 pm

I found this argument fairly compelling, albeit it doesn't really explain how a petite woman could overpower her large well-built (adoptive) father or how she handled a gun without any damage to nail varnish:

http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/how-and-why-did-sheila-do-it

But then I read this:

#Jeremy_Bamber true facts. While 5 members of his family lay murdered Jeremy Bamber cooked and ate a full English breakfast in front of stunned police officers.  This was one of the factors which raised suspicions about him at the time.

affraid

Sorry - never mind the forensics or anything else. That alone does it for me.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?PHPSESSID=bddb50t7gkaf2k683886004c71&topic=226.0

Not that long ago one of our pets had a nasty freak accident in a car resulting in a sudden death. My partner rushed him to the vet hoping they might be able to resuscitate but nothing could be done. When he arrived back at the house my partner was as white as a sheet as though he had just seen a ghost. He staggered inside and threw himself on a sofa sobbing. When he told me the pet had died and how, I did exactly the same. We were both wrecks all evening - traumatized and dreading having to tell other family members knowing how distressed they would be.

Cooking and eating a full English breakfast while five members of your family lie murdered..... affraid  affraid  affraid

ETA: I was a wreck the following morning too. I phoned a friend and she persuaded me to go downstairs and make myself a sweet cup of tea. I was still traumatized and in shock.
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Post  Freedom on Wed 30 Dec 2015, 5:10 pm

People react in different ways to a crisis. Most would not I agree be able to tuck in to a big breakfast at a time like that though!

This was an unusual case in that it was thought to be all done and dusted with his sister named as the perpetrator and then came the twist with him being accused.

My head tells me that the right person was convicted but sometimes my heart wonders. It would be horrific if an innocent man has lost his liberty for so long.
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Post  poster on Wed 30 Dec 2015, 9:35 pm

I've thought about that since I wrote the previous post. It can take time to process a situation - particularly something as hugely traumatic as the killing of most of a family. It is possible that JB simply could not process what had happened (which would be quite understandable) and went into some kind of cognitive 'dissonance'.

But surely if the sister had truly 'gone berserk' with a gun then the only logical thing for either JB (after allegedly receiving a call from his father) or the father to do would be to call 999?

(On the other hand, it is intriguing that I think I read somewhere that the (adoptive) father was in intelligence? Is this true?)

I suppose one might argue that IF it had been the sister (who clearly had some mental health issues) who carried out the killings then - given that there appears to have been a lack of  communication between social workers/doctors and the wider family - then one might argue that there would be 'powers that be' who might want to pin the blame on someone other than the sister to avoid scrutiny of their own roles and how they might (possibly) have been able to help avert such a tragedy if they had acted differently.
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Post  Freedom on Wed 30 Dec 2015, 10:33 pm

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Post  poster on Tue 19 Jan 2016, 5:32 pm

Perhaps neither Jeremy nor his sister carried out the murders? Maybe a hit-man or two?

I wonder what Jeremy's relationship with his (adoptive) sister was like? From what I have read the family dynamics appear to have been quite dysfunctional and the fact that the pair were adopted might have exacerbated things?

A fascinating case, albeit deeply shocking. But it does seem that the Essex police investigation was far from what it should have been, imo. Surely the investigating officers should go in with a completely open mind as to what might have happened?
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Post  poster on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 5:24 pm


The story below clinches it for me. I suspect Bamber was jealous of his beautiful sister and her children. She had recently been reunited with her birth mother which was clearly a joyous occasion. I suspect JB was acutely jealous of her and her new-found happiness. Read what her friend has to say about her relationship with Jeremy and their adoptive mother and how the friend refused to go to the farm with her that fateful weekend as she had bad vibes and didn't want to be part of the dysfunctional dynamic. The sister was scared of Jeremy - this says it all, surely? I hadn't realised that Jeremy and his sister were not blood relations and I believe this is hugely important to understanding why Jeremy did what he was convicted of.

I would say JB is a real life, fully fledged psychopath. Pointing the finger at the sister's mental health issues would be precisely what a psychopath would do to try to cover his tracks which, Imo, would show that the whole thing was pre-meditated. Killing his two nephews in cold blood while they slept in their beds is the action of a truly evil person.

I wonder whether JB ever met his birth parents? I suspect they were not cut from the same cloth as his sister's birth mother, but who knows?  The adoptive mother sounds cold and I would say almost certainly has some kind of personality disorder.  What can happen in a marriage where one spouse has a serious personality disorder is that the other spouse can go into complete denial which is hugely damaging for the children as they are forced into a situation of 'cognitive dissonance' whereby there is no acknowledgement of the effect of the disordered parent/s on their children. I personally believe that this can alter brain chemistry so I'm not surprised that the sister was diagnosed with a mental illness. Be interesting to know more about the diagnosis and how the parents dealt with this.

The other thing about psychopaths is that they are often obsessed with money - literally obsessed with it to the extent they would swindle their own flesh and blood. I've seen it with my own eyes! If there is a psychopath in the wider family - for instance a psychopathic spouse marries into a family - they will quite literally wreak utter havoc and are totally relentless and ruthless.  They will be jealous of anything that family members might have which they don't have - good looks, warm personality, intelligence, money, good figure, empathy etc etc. They will try to cut that person down. I think this is exactly what we are seeing here. Jeremy will carry on paying lawyers (is it from his own purse?) to fight the case because that's what psychopaths will do.


This is an extreme case for sure but, Imo,  there is no-one else who would be motivated to commit such a terrible crime. There is nothing like dysfunctional family dynamics with a psychopath or two and a few personality disorders thrown in to create a 'perfect storm' of utter decimation. And psychopaths don't just wreak havoc within families, they can wreak havoc at work and within institutions. Some are even heads of state!

Now what other family has a psychopath in it's midst with a spouse who is in complete denial? Let me think......


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjAyM_NzeDnAhWFonEKHYRWDVoQFjABegQIBBAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farticle-7971451%2FHow-Jeremy-Bambers-sister-Bambi-overjoyed-meet-birth-mother-months-murder.html&usg=AOvVaw0CNhLsxerxKsBwGJP5RPK8
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Post  poster on Thu 20 Feb 2020, 6:51 pm

Freedom wrote:Can I ask what you think of the Jeremy Bamber case, poster?

There are many people who think that he was wrongly convicted for the murders of his adoptive family in 1985 but, unlike Ian Huntley, JB does still proclaim his innocence.

Here is his website.

http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/

Huntley was 'treated' at Rampton. At first I believed the media reporting of the Soham case but once I looked into the case a bit more closely, I felt that the conviction was unsound and I still do.  I used to sit on the fence about the Bamber case but from what I have now read I am convinced that JB is behind the crime. Trying to frame the sister is more evidence, Imo, that JB is a psychopath.
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Post  poster on Fri 21 Feb 2020, 1:01 am

Another thought on this case (oh dear, I wish I hadn't read about it really) JB was also probably in love with his adoptive sister, Sheila.

The comment up-thread about the mother finding the pair sunbathing nude and calling Sheila 'the devil's daughter' (or something) says a lot.

Deeply religious families involved here, apparently.

Oh dear, what an awful case.
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Post  Freedom on Fri 21 Feb 2020, 9:37 am

I'll look into that later. I have read before that it was Sheila and her future husband who were sunbathing nude.

Her adoptive mother was mentally ill - she had been treated for religious mania.
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Post  Heisenburg on Fri 21 Feb 2020, 9:49 am

Freedom wrote:I'll look into that later. I have read before that it was Sheila and her future husband who were sunbathing nude.

Her adoptive mother was mentally ill - she had been treated for religious mania.

Yes I believe it was her future husband she was sunbathing with.
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Post  Freedom on Fri 21 Feb 2020, 10:15 am

Yes, I read his book some years ago and he definitely mentioned the incident in there.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Search-Rainbows-End-Colin-Caffell/dp/0340617462

A recent article about him.

https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/colin-caffell-speaks-about-jeremy-bamber-murders-1-6481898

Is it a comment from someone on an article, Poster? They're mistaken, that's all.
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Post  poster on Fri 21 Feb 2020, 9:39 pm

Yes - I think I misunderstood the comment. That makes more sense.

But I did wonder if, underneath the jealousy, JB might have been a little in love with his adopted sister who was not a blood relation at all as far as I can tell. Although they did both share quite dramatic good looks - albeit she looked rather angelic whereas I think he looked somewhat demonic (in the way that young Lord Lucan looked - icy cold).
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The Bamber Family Murders Empty So my best friend turned out to be a mass murderer...

Post  Rosa canina on Sat 29 Feb 2020, 7:39 pm

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/119648317/so-my-best-friend-turned-out-to-be-a-mass-murderer

Article this morning about the friendship between JB and a guy from Auckland.

_________________
The devil's in the detail...
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Post  poster on Sun 01 Mar 2020, 12:52 am

Rosa canina wrote:https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/119648317/so-my-best-friend-turned-out-to-be-a-mass-murderer

Article this morning about the friendship between JB and a guy from Auckland.

affraid affraid
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Post  Freedom on Sun 01 Mar 2020, 11:26 am

I haven't yet read all the article but one error jumped out at me. Neville Bamber wasn't a retired high court judge; he was a farmer and part-time local magistrate. 

I'm refreshing my memory with the basic details. Those poor twins - at least they didn't suffer though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Farm_murders
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Post  Heisenburg on Sun 01 Mar 2020, 4:32 pm

Rosa canina wrote:https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/119648317/so-my-best-friend-turned-out-to-be-a-mass-murderer

Article this morning about the friendship between JB and a guy from Auckland.

This appeared back in early February.

Jeremy Bamber's best pal believed he was innocent but now says he knows he's guilty
EXCLUSIVE: Brett Collins, who has left the UK to return to his native New Zealand, has broken his silence about his former friend - rubbishing Bamber's new alibi


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-bambers-best-pal-believed-21459285
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Post  Freedom on Sun 01 Mar 2020, 4:42 pm

I've got as far as the photo of the Bamber parents which, according to the Mirror, was taken in 1986, the year after they died!
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Post  Heisenburg on Sun 01 Mar 2020, 4:53 pm

Freedom wrote:I've got as far as the photo of the Bamber parents which, according to the Mirror, was taken in 1986, the year after they died!

Cor! you don't half expect a lot from a red top,accuracy!!!
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Post  Freedom on Sun 01 Mar 2020, 5:01 pm

I am a self-confessed pedantic old git!
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Post  poster on Sun 01 Mar 2020, 7:48 pm

I know you can't believe a thing you read in the papers and the tabloids are notoriously inaccurate but I presume this hedonistic holiday did happen in one way or another. Going off on a spending spree when the flowers have barely wilted from the funeral is really a huge red flag. What is strange is he couldn't even be bothered to put up a pretence apart from some dreadful cod acting at the funeral, it would seem. There are some text book examples of psychopaths around I would suggest he is one of them.
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