Coronavirus

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Coronavirus - Page 3 Empty Re: Coronavirus

Post  Antonia on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 5:02 pm

Could we have a large health warning about Kate McCanns's virus prayer? I was feeling good and then I stupidly clicked on the link to that.........

I am well but really missing meeting up with my two young grandsons. One of their dads is a doctor in intensive care in a large hospital and I try not to worry....
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Post  Freedom on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 5:09 pm

It shouldn't come as a shock to know that there are scammers trying to cash in on the crisis. I've reported this hoax e-mail to the WHO.

World Health Organization <ilozanou@tartanga.eus>
Fri 27/03/2020 04:30
The Covid-19 Solidarity Response Fund is a secure way for individuals, philanthropies, and businesses to contribute to the WHO-led effort to respond to the pandemic.



The United Nations Foundation and the Swiss Philanthropy Foundation have created the solidarity fund to support WHO and partners in a massive effort to help countries prevent, detect, and manage the novel coronavirus – particularly those where the needs are the greatest.



The fund will enable us to:



1. Send essential supplies such as personal protective equipment to frontline health workers

2. Enable all countries to track and detect the disease by boosting laboratory capacity through training and equipment.

3. Ensure health workers and communities everywhere have access to the latest science-based information to protect themselves, prevent infection and care for those in need.

4. Accelerate efforts to fast-track the discovery and development of lifesaving vaccines, diagnostics, and treatments.



The Strategic Preparedness and Response Plan outlines a funding need of at least US$675 million for critical response efforts in countries most in need of help through April 2020. As this outbreak evolves, funding needs are likely to increase.



Reply to this email now to donate to the COVID-19 Response Fund through our secure digital wallet. You can find information there on payment options and tax exemption possibilities for some countries.



Your donation could save the lives of millions



Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus

Director-General

World Health Organization
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Coronavirus - Page 3 Empty Re: Coronavirus

Post  unreorganised on Sat 28 Mar 2020, 11:08 am

Freedom wrote:I'm still confused about all this. So you can have the virus but not be ill enough to go to hospital - you can just stay at home until it's gone?

You can also have the virus and display no symptoms whatsoever.
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Coronavirus - Page 3 Empty Fictiona Phillips...?

Post  Rosa canina on Sat 28 Mar 2020, 11:08 am

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/entertainment/celebrity/fiona-phillips-opens-up-on-life-with-coronavirus/ar-BB11D4Vv 

...cuddly, friendly visitor...cosily wheedled its way into my bed, and my body... come bearing gifts...a whole-body-sized cloak of sweat...it was as if a witch had shoved her twiggy broom up into my alimentary canal and on into my throat, left it there and had then intermittently twisted it... etc etc


She's worse than Harry Potter.

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Post  unreorganised on Sat 28 Mar 2020, 11:10 am

Ah, the old GMTV / Daily Mirror axis of evil is alive and well, I see.
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Post  Freedom on Sat 28 Mar 2020, 11:22 am

I can't bring myself to click on that link!
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Post  Freedom on Mon 30 Mar 2020, 10:58 am

I've just returned from a visit to my local Tesco. I was reminded of Hampton Court Maze - many aisles and areas were blocked off and required a very circuitous route - well, at least it gives people exercise.

Although it was the specified pensioners' hour, we old dears still had to queue up outside as only about 10 were being allowed in at a time. 

Anyway, thankfully there were more basic items in stock than there were previously. The hoarders should have realised by now that they don't have to descend like locusts and clear everything out. It was scary one day the week before last to find that even such basic things as milk and bread weren't there. 

What are your experiences of shopping?
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Post  Tangled Web on Mon 30 Mar 2020, 8:59 pm

Amongst the returning nurses and doctors to the NHS during the Coronavirus pandemic I wonder if Dr Kate did, her being an anaesthetist?
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Post  unreorganised on Mon 30 Mar 2020, 9:35 pm

Tangled Web wrote:Amongst the returning nurses and doctors to the NHS during the Coronavirus pandemic I wonder if Dr Kate did, her being an anaesthetist?

Apparently she has been urging people to stay indoors.

Oh, the irony!
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Post  poster on Mon 30 Mar 2020, 11:46 pm

unreorganised wrote:
Tangled Web wrote:Amongst the returning nurses and doctors to the NHS during the Coronavirus pandemic I wonder if Dr Kate did, her being an anaesthetist?

Apparently she has been urging people to stay indoors.

Oh, the irony!

Quite so!
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Coronavirus - Page 3 Empty Views on the Cornoavirus

Post  poster on Tue 31 Mar 2020, 10:57 pm

Some interesting views on the Coronavirus situation.

Bill Gates is second largest donor to WHO! Wow.

In one of the replies to a tweet, read a translation by Dr Wolfgang. Fascinating stuff (around 3 hours ago).


https://twitter.com/RealCandaceO/status/1245054835088592896
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Coronavirus - Page 3 Empty Statistics

Post  poster on Wed 01 Apr 2020, 12:36 am

Looking at the statistics of deaths from Coronavirus in areas that are known to me, I found the numbers of deaths from this virus to be in very low figures. I would have thought that normal average death rates would be far higher than this. And if most of these death rates are from people with pre-existing conditions then I'm not sure that they even count as 'Coronavirus' deaths as each year flu or colds cause huge numbers of death, particularly in elderly populations.

A week ago the local press reported one death from Coronavirus at Kingston Hospital which serves a local population of 350,000 people. This went up by four, according to a report released yesterday (31/3/20).

The report stated: There have been 13 new coronavirus patient deaths at hospitals in and around Surrey, NHS England says.


This is a very large area with a large population and quite an elderly population. I don't know what the normal death rates would be within this sort of time frame but given that each year flu causes huge problems for the NHS with elderly people I would have thought they would be much, much higher.

Unless the statistics are put in the context of average rates of flu, average rates of death and other relevant contexts they are really quite meaningless.

IMO.


https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/coronavirus-deaths-in-surrey-number-18015658
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Post  poster on Wed 01 Apr 2020, 12:44 am

Let's put it another way.

My 91-year-old relative has reached a ripe old age mostly because he is a selfish old git and has loads of money and private health care (all by his own admission).

He has nearly died about five times since he was diagnosed with an unusual kind of lymphoma over 20 years ago. First time in his 60s he nearly died of pneumonia. Second and third times he nearly died of chest infections. Fourth  time he nearly died of pneumonia ('old man's friend, remember?). Fifth time he nearly died when he broke his hip.

If he  died now and was tested positive for the virus (or possibly even if he wasn't?) he would go down as a Coronavirus death.

He would not be a Cornonavirus death. He would be a very old man who died of natural causes after a very long life. The statistics are, imo, being presented in a very misleading way.

IMO (and his too!)
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Post  poster on Wed 01 Apr 2020, 11:26 pm

Freedom wrote:It shouldn't come as a shock to know that there are scammers trying to cash in on the crisis. I've reported this hoax e-mail to the WHO.

World Health Organization <ilozanou@tartanga.eus>
Fri 27/03/2020 04:30
The Covid-19 Solidarity Response Fund is a secure way for individuals, philanthropies, and businesses to contribute to the WHO-led effort to respond to the pandemic.


The United Nations Foundation and the Swiss Philanthropy Foundation have created the solidarity fund to support WHO and partners in a massive effort to help countries prevent, detect, and manage the novel coronavirus – particularly those where the needs are the greatest.


The fund will enable us to:


1. Send essential supplies such as personal protective equipment to frontline health workers

2. Enable all countries to track and detect the disease by boosting laboratory capacity through training and equipment.

3. Ensure health workers and communities everywhere have access to the latest science-based information to protect themselves, prevent infection and care for those in need.

4. Accelerate efforts to fast-track the discovery and development of lifesaving vaccines, diagnostics, and treatments.


The Strategic Preparedness and Response Plan outlines a funding need of at least US$675 million for critical response efforts in countries most in need of help through April 2020. As this outbreak evolves, funding needs are likely to increase.


Reply to this email now to donate to the COVID-19 Response Fund through our secure digital wallet. You can find information there on payment options and tax exemption possibilities for some countries.


Your donation could save the lives of millions


Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus

Director-General

World Health Organization

Is the email a hoax though? There's a lot that could be said about the WHO but I wonder if the email is a hoax or if the organisation really is trying to drum up money from the sheeple general population? (As if Bill Gates needs any help, really.)
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Coronavirus - Page 3 Empty Re: Coronavirus

Post  Freedom on Thu 02 Apr 2020, 8:13 am

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Post  poster on Thu 02 Apr 2020, 3:05 pm

Freedom wrote:There is indeed a genuine appeal from the WHO.

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/donate

Wow! The vast majority of people will have been badly hit by this in terms of loss of earnings, worried about elderly people, pension funds and savings plummeting. They are stuck in their homes, many isolated, many lonely. There is no money coming in. And yet the WHO, funded by Bill Gates who is worth billions, is asking members of the public to donate money?

There is something off about all this. I have quite wide social networks. I have a large extended family and so does my ex-partner. I personally do not know a single person who has been admitted to hospital during this lock-down period. Neither does my ex-partner. None of the very many friends and acquaintances I know has reported a single person who has been admitted to hospital for the past few weeks. I know of a minority of people who have been ill with colds and flu-type symptoms but none have needed to go to hospital. Given that colds and flu are a problem every year, the numbers do not seem any higher than usual.

I know many people who have had elected operations cancelled.

I posted the figures that are allegedly people in the heavily populated Kingston area who have been treated at Kingston and tested positive for Coronavirus. Tiny numbers.

I sometimes drop off supplies for an elderly relative who lives near Kingston hospital and I see very few people coming and going to the hospital. The ambulance services seem much less busy than before.

Has anyone heard of anyone being admitted to hospital with acute symptoms that appear to be Coronavirus? One of my sisters used to be a nurse at Kingston Hospital. She might still have contacts there and I'll ask her what's going on there.

ETA: The 'social distancing' will, of course, stop or dramatically slow down the transmission and spread of other infectious diseases such as flu and colds which fill up the wards every winter.  Some statistics I was looking at showing flu rates throughout Europe over the past few winters show that many countries had very high rates - Italy and Spain being two of them. I'll find the graphs but they showed that as of mid-March, the comparable rates compared with previous years were lower.
'
So I suspect hospitals are less busy than usual because the social distancing and other measures will have dramatically slowed the spread and transmission of colds, flu and other infectious diseases.

Historically, it would appear that when doctors went on strike or hospitals were closed people were less sick!


https://twitter.com/hashtag/filmmyhospital?src=hashtag_click
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Coronavirus - Page 3 Empty Re: Coronavirus

Post  Guinea Pig on Thu 02 Apr 2020, 5:26 pm

Jill Havern has recently posted this on CMoMM.

"I emailed my nephew yesterday - he works in an Intensive Care Unit at King's College Hospital, London...he emailed me back just now to say it's been pretty quiet, very weird atmosphere, like the calm before the storm, they've had 11 covid patients in his ICU since the lockdown, mortality rate low".
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Post  poster on Thu 02 Apr 2020, 8:23 pm

Guinea Pig wrote:Jill Havern has recently posted this on CMoMM.

"I emailed my nephew yesterday - he works in an Intensive Care Unit at King's College Hospital, London...he emailed me back just now to say it's been pretty quiet, very weird atmosphere, like the calm before the storm, they've had 11 covid patients in his ICU since the lockdown, mortality rate low".

The social distancing and 'lock down' will dramatically reduce the transmission and spread of colds, flu and other infectious diseases that regularly cause hospitals across Europe to struggle to cope during the winter months. There will be dramatically fewer gastric illnesses as well as restaurants, cafes and work/school/hospital canteens are closed. Cross contamination will dramatically reduce in all types of infectious diseases.

There will be fewer respiratory illnesses for the reasons above and also because there will be less air pollution. Air pollution was one of the reasons for very large numbers of flu illnesses and deaths in northern Italy during the flu pandemic in the winter of 2017-2018. Weather conditions allowed for  air pollution that contributed to a large number of respiratory problems, particularly in the elderly. For reasons already stated there will be fewer asthmatic patients admitted to hospital.

All IMO only as always.

There will be far fewer road accident fatalities as people stay at home. In 2017 a total of 1,793 people were killed on our roads.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/820562/Reported_road_casualties_-_Main_Results_2018.pdf

Interesting times.
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Coronavirus - Page 3 Empty A new lifesaving vaccine arrives!

Post  poster on Thu 02 Apr 2020, 9:51 pm

Interesting that the Bill Gates' funded Event 20, described as a 'global pandemic exercise'  (October 2019) simulated the outbreak of a type of coronavirus.   But fear not! A new vaccine will prevent future generations from the scourge of this deadly new virus! From the research I have done into the introduction of vaccines, they are nearly always introduced at the point that the particular infectious disease that they are supposedly going to prevent is losing its virulence and at a point when the disease, if left to its natural course, would eventually die out and/or become much less virulent. That's what diseases do.

An important point in all this is that we now have a generation of young people who have received far more vaccines than ever before. They are having their own children. One of the advantages of catching a natural form of the disease is that immunity if obtained. There are those who believe that natural immunity is preferable to artificial immunity induced via a vaccine. A mother passes on antibodies via the placenta in the third trimester of pregnancy. Further antibodies are passed on to the baby in breast milk. How might this affect the immune responses of babies being born now to mothers and fathers who were never exposed to the natural form of the disease that the previous generation were exposed to - eg: measles and mumps, for instance?

How will a population's response to viruses and bacteria change or alter when we have an increased vaccine load in a population the likes of which we have seen in the past 20 - 30 years during which the number of recommended vaccines has increased dramatically? The only way we could really find out  would be to carry out trials comparing vaccinated with vaccinated people. Those trials are not being done and there are no plans to do them. These trials would also help us understand the rates of adverse reactions to vaccinations which is vitally important in terms of risk/benefit information.

I think these are vitally important questions and I think they should be discussed so members of the public can make informed decisions regarding their health and the health of their children.

I am neither pro nor con vaccines. They may well be a useful tool in public health. But unless the questions are asked and the research done then we don't really know the extent to which they help and the extent to which they might harm.

IMO only as always.

The scenario ends at the 18-month point, with 65 million deaths. The pandemic is beginning to slow due to the decreasing number of susceptible people. The pandemic will continue at some rate until there is an effective vaccine or until 80-90 % of the global population has been exposed. From that point on, it is likely to be an endemic childhood disease.


ETA: There are those who claim that the swine flu vaccine was a bit of a disaster. There are, in any event, instances of vaccines introduced to (remote) populations with little natural exposure to the diseases which the vaccines were supposed to prevent. The outcomes were not good.  I can't really imagine that introducing vaccines into very poor communities who lack basic sanitation is the right way to go about improving public health. A few concerned medics and others have written about all this and it's well worth reading.


http://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/scenario.html
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Coronavirus - Page 3 Empty Derbyshire police get their knickers in a twist

Post  poster on Fri 03 Apr 2020, 12:59 am

Derbyshire police being criticised for over-zealous measures! I wonder if Stuart Priors (sp?) who appeared to be rather chummy with Kate and Gerry McCann is still in the force? Holiday-makers at Ocean Club during the week that Madeleine was allegedly abducted were asked to send photos to Stuart Priors at  Derbyshire police, I do believe.

Gosh, Derbyshire police seem utterly obsessed with 'non-essential' activities which look unbelievably harmless. Walking the dog, watching a sunset, taking a 'selfie'. All utterly unacceptable, apparently, as they involve driving to a 'beauty spot'. What if it wasn't a 'beauty spot' - like a slag heap or walking around an urban area that is a bit depressing? Would that make it okay? confused

 The individuals captured by the drone (I think it's a drone that captured these rebels?) appear quite isolated from anyone else. I'm not quite sure how these people would be endangering others as they drove in their cars to the Peak District (thus isolated and not infecting others) and then walked somewhere where there was miles of space.

But it is still okay for workers to go to work in settings with vulnerable people - for instance hospitals, care homes, shops (certain hours only for elderly)  without having any idea whether they have coronavirus or not because there are still not being tested?? So they could potentially be infecting dozens if not hundreds of vulnerable people. (How many vulnerable people are lurking in the Peak District? None?)

Uh????

Brave New World has arrived.

ETA: There was an interview with a Scottish GP on national TV at the start of the alleged coronavirus 'pandemic' who was remarkably down-to-earth and talked about lack of Vitamin D being a real problem and how important Vitamin D is for health. Scotland is not known for its sunny climate, especially during the winter. The presenter cut her off quite quickly once she started talking about the role of lack of Vitamin D in disease but the 'stay at home' order from our Government would appear to completely ignore this very sound advice. Many people do not have access to private gardens or balconies so 'stay at home' could be putting them (and their babies/young children) at risk of disease, rather than the other way round. Another way of looking at this extraordinary situation we have been put in. (A generation ago, it was common practise to put babies in their prams outside, even in cold weather.)



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-52095857

https://twitter.com/davidicke/status/1245274872659546112
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Coronavirus - Page 3 Empty WHO flu season 2019 -2020 assessment 18/12/20

Post  poster on Sat 04 Apr 2020, 3:50 pm

Correction: I do believe Stuart Prior was at Leicestershire police at the time of the alleged abduction of MM, not Derbyshire police.

There are statistics showing that  there were very high rates of flu (pandemics?) throughout many countries in Europe during past winters. This is despite flu vaccination recommendations which we have had for many years which  now include vaccinating pregnant women. Flu vaccine is problematic because there are many different strains each year. There are conflicting reports about the efficacy of flu vaccines generally and the fact that flu tends to be such a huge problem each winter suggests that vaccines cannot be considered to prevent all types of flu in all the people who receive it.

So while we all 'lock down' specifically because of Cornavirus (supposedly) what will happen is that there will be a dramatic reduction in the spread of other strains of flu (as well as Coronavirus) and indeed any type of infectious or communicable disease.

I can only assume that the main public health concern was that the flu rate would remain as high as ever - despite flu vaccines - and on top of that the little-understood strain of Coronavirus which spread from China would cause yet further cases of flu, thus crippling health services which have been over-stretched for years. The WHO report written on 18th December 2019 makes no mention of cornonavirus, as far as I can see, which would make sense given that it was not until the end of December that the WHO China office apparently first received reports. (Although it would appear that the Wuhan scientist/professor who first reported on the strange new virus was effectively silenced and later died from the disease).

The WHO report below is interesting. Buried in the contents is the recommendation below. I wonder if these measures would be more effective at preventing flu pandemics but have been ignored in favour of a faith in efficacy of the flu vaccine, which yearly statistics suggest is unfounded?

Non-pharmaceutical countermeasures against influenza, such as voluntary self-isolation of patients, hand washing, and respiratory hygiene should be encouraged during the whole
season [20].


Still, Bill Gates appears to be full of hope that a vaccine against a specific strain of Coronavirus is the answer to all our prayers.  Maybe we should just have been washing our hands more all along?

The WHO report entitled: Influenza season: An early situation  assessment, was written on 18th December 2019. I've selected a few points from it which I think are of interest given the current situation.

  • First detections for the 2019–2020 season indicate co-circulation of influenza types A
    (71%) and B (29%) viruses in the WHO European Region. All of the four influenza
    subtypes and lineages are circulating

    The season has started slightly earlier than usual. It is too soon to predict how the
    season will develop in terms of peak week, severity and duration.

    Measures to communicate practices such as self-isolation when ill, respiratory
    etiquette and hand hygiene should be encouraged.

    During the 2014–2015 and 2016–
    2017 influenza A(H3N2) dominated seasons, with poor vaccine match, influenza-associated
    mortality among people aged 65 years and above was 147.41 and 129.90 per 100 000
    population over the age of 64, respectively [10].


https://www.wired.co.uk/article/china-coronavirus

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/influenza-situation-assessment-18-December-2019.pdf
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Coronavirus - Page 3 Empty How quickly advice changes

Post  poster on Sat 04 Apr 2020, 10:20 pm

Non-pharmaceutical countermeasures against influenza, such as voluntary self-isolation of patients, hand washing, and respiratory hygiene should be encouraged during the whole
season [20].


This was the advice given by the WHO in December 2019. In other words, at the start (ish) of the flu season.  Was this communicated down to the community via GPs, community health nurses etc,  in order to avoid the inevitable annual flu statistics that tend to cripple NHS services, or so we are told?

Certainly wasn't advice that was passed on to educational establishments as I was doing some work in primary schools in January. I seem to remember trying to persuade the children to wash their hands after going to the toilet. My impression was that most of them had no idea that this was necessary. I remember thinking at the time there was a woeful lack of education about basic hygiene which I found surprising.

On top of that, I was doing a course which ended in February 2020 which lead on to a professional qualification in which the criteria for passing the course was as close to 100% attendance as possible. Ideally, 100% attendance unless there were exceptional extenuating circumstances. There were several sessions that you could not miss (such as first and last sessions) without exceptional circumstances so that if you missed them you would fail the course.

The result of the above measures was that I personally attended the course on two sessions with a hideous cold. Other students attended while ill with colds, flu and any other illnesses which didn't require hospital admission.

Perhaps the Government, given that flu and other infectious diseases cause so many problems each year, should review their policies and take into account the basic non-pharmaceutical countermeasures against flu and other infectious disease and institute them across the board - in schools, industry, educational establishments etc?

Also, is it not weird that we are being told to act to 'save the NHS'? Shouldn't the NHS be acting to save us? (Eg: advise the community in the first instance to practise the very basic measures as outlined above?? To avoid more draconian measures?)

The Government really cannot have it both ways.

IMO

ETA: I'm informed private testing now available £150. Seems like a bargain, given the public measures that are being imposed with people's livelihoods down the drain.
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Coronavirus - Page 3 Empty Brave New World

Post  poster on Sun 05 Apr 2020, 1:15 pm

There is something so insidious about this whole situation as the Government and mass media hector, bully, cajole and threaten us  by taking away even the smallest liberty. The latest threat is that we won't be allowed to exercise outside. This will have a serious adverse effect on physical and mental health in a population who  are in shock over losing their jobs, income, liberty and most basic human rights.

I personally fail to see how people lying on the ground sunbathing at a distance from each other will spread the virus. There are still health workers, food shop staff and other key workers having close contact with dozens of members of the public each day who have not been tested so they could be spreading the virus each day without knowing. Surely that is far more of a threat to public health than people sunbathing?

I watched two police cars zooming up a normally busy road near me and my first thought was: 'I wonder if they are arresting sun-bathers?' Is this really a good use of police time and public money?

Are we all being 'groomed' to get used to losing very basic freedoms in the future? (Why is Bill Gates being given so much influence? He's not a politician or a scientist.)

The mass media are hyping up hysteria which is designed to turn people against each other, imo, in a type of moral indignation. If you look at some of the twitter feeds following police arrests which look ridiculous, imo, you will see a little mob appear berating people as 'stupid, selfish' etc. Brockwell Park in Brixton, which was closed yesterday evening, is a lung in the centre of one of the poorest boroughs in London. People live cheek by jowl and many, many will be in overcrowded bedsits or flats with no access to outside space.

In order to go out for a walk or to get food those people will now be forced to walk on pavements that are even more crowded with people. There will be far more people than usual walking to the shops because people are not abroad, they are not at work, they are not at school, they are not at college. They are stuck at home and many in spaces that are already crowded. Imagine that with small children or even teenagers?

Similar tactics of hectoring, moral indignation and bulling were used with the Madeleine McCann case. Those who didn't believe the story were labelled 'trolls' and we were all urged to send money straight to the McCanns despite there not being a shred of evidence to support the McCanns version of events. Members of the public were conned, imo,  into sending their hard-earned savings to the 'Fund' purportedly set up to find her. To add insult to injury, the police operation cost millions, paid out of the public purse. And until recently the case was still being funded despite, apparently, absolutely no evidence at all that Madeleine McCann is still alive and in fact a great deal of red flags that Madeleine died that week. As the Portuguese police decided following their investigation. Given the backdrop of the appalling media coverage of this case (again, in my opinion) I find it very difficult to have faith in our media and indeed in some politicians,  police and lawyers. To name but a few. For instance, why did Gerry McCann receive a 'police bravery' award? He 'lost' his child in the most suspicious circumstances imaginable and he received something of a standing ovation from police officers?

Uhhhhh?

There is something insidious about this 'lock-down'. I know other countries have done it or are doing it (although not all) but just because a lot of people do something, it does not necessarily make it right. Whipping up public fear is not necessarily the best approach, imo.

The death statistics are not being put into any meaningful context. How many people die of flu each year on average?  The vast majority of the people who have died having tested positive for Coronavirus (if indeed they have - the Government have been remarkably slow to test) have had serious underlying conditions so they died with Coronavirus not necessarily of the virus. This is an incredibly important distinction.

The fact that a very few younger people with no underlying medical conditions have died having tested positive for Coronavirus proves precisely nothing. Unfortunately young people do occasionally die suddenly without warning. Sometimes an autopsy will show they had an undiagnosed health condition, or a 'ticking time-bomb' type of weakness. Sometimes it is due to an unknown allergy or reaction. It's rare, but it does happen. Young people can also die of complications from flu, just as children can die from complications from an infectious disease like measles. However, in cases where children died from measles it was nearly always because the child had an underlying health condition or was malnourished or received sub-optimal treatment.

The other not uncommon case of death is adverse events or reactions from medical interventions or procedures or negligence. We have no idea of knowing whether any of the death attributed to this virus were, in fact, avoidable.  This is a new virus so I imagine it will take a bit of experimenting to get the treatment right and sadly there will be early casualties, imo.

Historically, there has been a culture within the medical profession of denying and suppressing medical mistakes. In the moral panic and confusion of the present situation with patients in isolation, no autopsies being carried out (I presume?) and relatives not even being allowed to be near their loved ones, I doubt we will ever know the truth. (Very rarely, health care workers can harm. For instance GP Harold Shipman was one of the world's largest mass murderers and was still practising as a GP as the bodies of his patients were being buried at funerals with undertakers raising their eyebrows at the number of his patients who died suddenly).

The key question, imo, would be: 'How many people who were admitted to hospital with symptoms of flu consistent with Coronavirus, were tested positive and then, despite appropriate treatment, sadly died?

And I'm still struggling to understand how the basic hygiene measures now being implement and which were recommended by the WHO were not put into place when it was known that the virus has spread from Wuhan? Why were we so slow on the uptake? Surely this was a public health failure of huge proportions, given this was an unknown virus?

All in my opinion as always.

ETA: Moral panic and moral indignation can serve as a very effective distraction. Are the public paying the price for monumental failures in public health care? The other thing that bothers me is the timing of Bill Gates stepping down from Microsoft to concentrate on his 'philanthropic work'. The second lagest donor to WHO? Why was he telling us all to wash our hands and cover our sneezes?
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Post  Freedom on Sun 05 Apr 2020, 3:05 pm

I must admit that I'm wondering why or if some of the measures are necessary.
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Post  Antonia on Sun 05 Apr 2020, 3:12 pm

A young relative is a doctor in intensive care in a large Dublin hospital. He says he is busy as he was before the virus issue and fears they will run out of ICU beds. They have appealed for the Irish overseas with medical qualifications to return to help out but many have had problems getting flights back from Australia, NZ and Cananda and then face 14 day isolation before they can work.
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