Is there a Portuguese investigation or not?

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Is there a Portuguese investigation or not?

Post  chirpyinsect on Wed 27 Apr 2016, 5:47 pm

There seems to be some confusion in certain places as to whether there is an active investigation continuing in PT.
Joanna Morais says it is lip service and TB agrees. However, Claire25 has posted this link from the Guardian that clearly states there is.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/03/16/madeleine-mccann-latest-are-police-any-closer-to-knowing-the-tru/

Snipped.

Following the appeal on Crimewatch, the Portuguese police re-opened their own investigation.

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Re: Is there a Portuguese investigation or not?

Post  candyfloss on Wed 27 Apr 2016, 5:59 pm

chirpyinsect wrote:There seems to be some confusion in certain places as to whether there is an active investigation continuing in PT.
Joanna Morais says it is lip service and TB agrees. However, Claire25 has posted this link from the Guardian that clearly states there is.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/03/16/madeleine-mccann-latest-are-police-any-closer-to-knowing-the-tru/

Snipped.

Following the appeal on Crimewatch, the Portuguese police re-opened their own investigation.

The case was going on even before Op Grange started.  And yes they officially opened it again in 2013 although it was never closed as such just shelved pending new evidence.  This is what IMcF posted yesterday, this has been allegedly disagreed with...


candyfloss wrote:So here is the video pic with the caption underneath...



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Re: Is there a Portuguese investigation or not?

Post  Andrew on Wed 27 Apr 2016, 6:11 pm

Yes it's open. I mentioned it the other day.

Don't always believe what Tony says and wants everyone to believe.

It's a great pity he's not come out to congratulate GA, instead of coming with all the other nonsense.

Judging by his recent posts, he's as worried as the Mc's are at this moment in time.

Just my opinion.
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Re: Is there a Portuguese investigation or not?

Post  Bampots on Wed 27 Apr 2016, 6:25 pm

Lots of games CF...think of what you do know,think of who you trust. Do any that you really trust say the PJ have stopped. Cast them from your mind,there are more we are not even aware of yet waiting in line to play headf#^k with us!

Got this quickly will search for a better source later(after dinner!)

Portugal re-opens investigation
Days after Crimewatch aired, Portugal's attorney general reopened the Portuguese investigation, citing new evidence.[9] According to the Portuguese tabloid Correio da Manhã, this was based on mobile-phone tracking techniques, which reportedly showed that the phone of a former Ocean Club restaurant worker had been used near the resort on the evening of the disappearance. Originally from Cape Verde, West Africa, the man died in 2009 in a tractor accident after being fired from the Ocean Club in 2006 for theft; the suspicion was that he was breaking into apartments to finance a drug habit.[162]

In January 2014 the British Crown Prosecution Service sent Portugal a second formal request for assistance in an effort to interview three people accused of burglary. The request followed an analysis of mobile phone data, which reportedly showed that three people connected to burglaries in the area had made a high number of calls to each other around the time of the disappearance

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Madeleine_McCann#Portugal_re-opens_investigation

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Re: Is there a Portuguese investigation or not?

Post  Dee Coy on Wed 27 Apr 2016, 7:54 pm

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/524393/Madeleine-McCann-hunt-three-women-riddle-disapperance

Remember this? The three high-flying women in the Portuguese judiciary system who it was claimed were all working to crack the case?

This was around the time the hairs were set for re-examination and we heard no more.

Was it the Portuguese who were interested in the examination of the hairs and DNA samples and the English who were panicked into getting those samples back onto UK terra-firma at all costs?

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Re:Is there a Portuguese Investigation or not.

Post  costello on Wed 27 Apr 2016, 8:13 pm

Dee Coy wrote:http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/524393/Madeleine-McCann-hunt-three-women-riddle-disapperance

Remember this? The three high-flying women in the Portuguese judiciary system who it was claimed were all working to crack the case?

This was around the time the hairs were set for re-examination and we heard no more.

Was it the Portuguese who were interested in the examination of the hairs and DNA samples and the English who were panicked into getting those samples back onto UK terra-firma at all costs?

If I remember correctly Dee Coy, these hair sample results are still with the University in Coimbra. I did read on twitter (Adiren) that one of Andy Redwoods remits was to obtain these samples but the PJ did not allow this to happen. Whether this is true or not, I don't know.
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Re: Is there a Portuguese investigation or not?

Post  Dee Coy on Wed 27 Apr 2016, 8:28 pm

costello wrote:
Dee Coy wrote:http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/524393/Madeleine-McCann-hunt-three-women-riddle-disapperance

Remember this? The three high-flying women in the Portuguese judiciary system who it was claimed were all working to crack the case?

This was around the time the hairs were set for re-examination and we heard no more.

Was it the Portuguese who were interested in the examination of the hairs and DNA samples and the English who were panicked into getting those samples back onto UK terra-firma at all costs?

If I remember correctly Dee Coy, these hair sample results are still with the University in Coimbra. I did read on twitter (Adiren) that one of Andy Redwoods remits was to obtain these samples but the PJ did not allow this to happen. Whether this is true or not, I don't know.

I reckon that's exactly what was happening, Costello. In fact, I've said before and I'll say it again, I've often wondered if the whole raison d'etre for OG is to keep tabs on the Portuguese and to understand what they have. Faces squashed against a police department window which the PJ occupants rfuse to open, so to speak.

Wonder if those 3 women are still running things over there?

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Re: Is there a Portuguese investigation or not?

Post  Andrew on Wed 27 Apr 2016, 8:40 pm

Good find, dee.

New evidence came to light and the PJ re-opened the investigation. As they said.

Sometimes these high profile investigations work in absolute secrecy.

It doesn't matter how many FOI requests you chuck at it.

I mean, whilst it's still live then who is going to give some internet sleuth the heads up...

It's just ridiculous. Although we might find out more though when he gives Gerry a piggy-back tomorrow to yet again, try and find out what's happening behind the scenes.

Imo.
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Re:Is there a Portuguese Investigation or not.

Post  costello on Wed 27 Apr 2016, 8:54 pm

Dee Coy wrote:
costello wrote:
Dee Coy wrote:http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/524393/Madeleine-McCann-hunt-three-women-riddle-disapperance

Remember this? The three high-flying women in the Portuguese judiciary system who it was claimed were all working to crack the case?

This was around the time the hairs were set for re-examination and we heard no more.

Was it the Portuguese who were interested in the examination of the hairs and DNA samples and the English who were panicked into getting those samples back onto UK terra-firma at all costs?

If I remember correctly Dee Coy, these hair sample results are still with the University in Coimbra. I did read on twitter (Adiren) that one of Andy Redwoods remits was to obtain these samples but the PJ did not allow this to happen. Whether this is true or not, I don't know.

I reckon that's exactly what was happening, Costello. In fact, I've said before and I'll say it again, I've often wondered if the whole raison d'etre for OG is to keep tabs on the Portuguese and to understand what they have. Faces squashed against a police department window which the PJ occupants rfuse to open, so to speak.

Wonder if those 3 women are still running things over there?

I actually 'believe' (like yourself Dee Coy) that Operation Grange was set up to shadow and obtain as much information from the Portuguese inquiry as possible. The PJ were on the right track from day one with this case, It was the political interference that hampered things. Blair/Brown and Socrates.
I really don't know if these three women are still running the show,but from what I have read a few days ago, there are only 6 police officers working with the PJ who seem to be anonymous.
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Re: Is there a Portuguese investigation or not?

Post  Dee Coy on Wed 27 Apr 2016, 9:10 pm

I got disillusioned after Joana Morais came out and said there is no will for this to be finalised in Portugal. Isabelle M and Adiren seem to think otherwise - Adiren has often said the reason the two investigations cannot work together is they legally can't.

So why does Joana believe otherwise? I do trust her, btw, just wonder what causes her to believe this.

One thing is for certain, wheels turn silently and slowly over there... Unless, of course, the reason for the apparent inactivity was the libel trial. Now, however...

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Re: Is there a Portuguese investigation or not?

Post  Mimi on Wed 27 Apr 2016, 9:37 pm

Bampots wrote:Lots of games CF...think of what you do know,think of who you trust. Do any that you really trust say the PJ have stopped. Cast them from your mind,there are more we are not even aware of yet waiting in line to play headf#^k with us!

Got this quickly will search for a better source later(after dinner!)

Portugal re-opens investigation
Days after Crimewatch aired, Portugal's attorney general reopened the Portuguese investigation, citing new evidence.[9] According to the Portuguese tabloid Correio da Manhã, this was based on mobile-phone tracking techniques, which reportedly showed that the phone of a former Ocean Club restaurant worker had been used near the resort on the evening of the disappearance. Originally from Cape Verde, West Africa, the man died in 2009 in a tractor accident after being fired from the Ocean Club in 2006 for theft; the suspicion was that he was breaking into apartments to finance a drug habit.[162]

In January 2014 the British Crown Prosecution Service sent Portugal a second formal request for assistance in an effort to interview three people accused of burglary. The request followed an analysis of mobile phone data, which reportedly showed that three people connected to burglaries in the area had made a high number of calls to each other around the time of the disappearance

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Madeleine_McCann#Portugal_re-opens_investigation

I remember it was transferred to Porto and a female officer was in charge - her name began with M. The Portuguese wanted it to go to a town far removed from the Algarve.  I`ve only found this so far :-
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/438868/Portuguese-police-reopen-Madeleine-McCann-investigation
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id409.html

The Porto team started their investigation months before Operation Grange - I think it was in the March.

ETA - It was this I was thinking of :-

From Diaro de Noticias 25th Oct 2013

"At the headquarters of the London Metropolitan Police, who have been working on the case for over a year [sic, for over two years], Scotland Yard are said to have found new relevant information, based on the forty thousand documents and clues collected by the police forces from Portugal, UK and eight different companies of private detective and just a few days ago they showed e-fits of a suspect.

A source from the PJ who hasn't, however, worked for this process, does not set aside the divulgation of images of the same kind if appropriate. He acknowledges, however, the importance of the work done by the Regional Section of Criminal Investigation and Prevention - of the PJ from Porto - led by the coordinator Helena Monteiro. Notwithstanding the formal archival of the investigation, that team was in the field since March last year, searching for leads to follow and in order to fill any eventual gaps in the initial investigations."


Last edited by Mimi on Wed 27 Apr 2016, 9:51 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re:Is there a Portuguese Investigation or not.

Post  costello on Wed 27 Apr 2016, 9:41 pm

Dee Coy wrote:I got disillusioned after Joana Morais came out and said there is no will for this to be finalised in Portugal. Isabelle M and Aidiran seem to think otherwise - Aidiran has often said the reason the two investigations cannot work together is they legally can't.

So why does Joana believe otherwise? I do trust her, btw, just wonder what causes her to believe this.

One thing is for certain, wheels turn silently and slowly over there... Unless, of course, the reason for the apparent inactivity was the libel trial. Now, however...

I really hope there will be a conclusion to this case soon. I was so confident when Dr. Amaral won his appeal and with him being able to speak out on TV, i'm now wondering if he is on his own in all this now. Many people seem to be so negative of an end to this case: Pat Brown, Joana Morais even Peter
McLeod (for whatever reason) and Adiren's tweets the last few days are not positive. I just hope justice
prevails, if anything my money is on the PJ, fingers crossed.
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Re: Is there a Portuguese investigation or not?

Post  dogs don't lie on Wed 27 Apr 2016, 9:57 pm

candyfloss wrote:
chirpyinsect wrote:There seems to be some confusion in certain places as to whether there is an active investigation continuing in PT.
Joanna Morais says it is lip service and TB agrees. However, Claire25 has posted this link from the Guardian that clearly states there is.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/03/16/madeleine-mccann-latest-are-police-any-closer-to-knowing-the-tru/

Snipped.

Following the appeal on Crimewatch, the Portuguese police re-opened their own investigation.

The case was going on even before Op Grange started.  And yes they officially opened it again in 2013 although it was never closed as such just shelved pending new evidence.  This is what IMcF posted yesterday, this has been allegedly disagreed with...


candyfloss wrote:So here is the video pic with the caption underneath...




Read the very last two lines, why do people think otherwise? scratch

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Re: Is there a Portuguese investigation or not?

Post  Andrew on Wed 27 Apr 2016, 10:04 pm

Keep the faith, costello.

Who cares about twitter speak. (Most are a bit odd)

Personally, I think everything is glueing together very nicely.

Every tom, dick and harriet has been looked into. And eliminated too.

Stands to reason, only one line of enquiry left...

Everyone knew what that was / is worth pursuing...

To go to trial, then absolutely everything else, with evidence, had to be discounted first..

That will leave just ONE line of enquiry.
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Re:Is there a Portuguese Investigation or not.

Post  costello on Wed 27 Apr 2016, 10:21 pm

Andrew wrote:Keep the faith, costello.

Who cares about twitter speak. (Most are a bit odd)

Personally, I think everything is glueing together very nicely.

Every tom, dick and harriet has been looked into. And eliminated too.

Stands to reason, only one line of enquiry left...

Everyone knew what that was / is worth pursuing...

To go to trial, then absolutely everything else, with evidence, had to be discounted first..

That will leave just ONE line of enquiry.

Oh Cheers Andrew, I'm trying so hard to be positive I really am. It's not in my nature to be negative.
I just want Dr. Amaral to win in all this, more than anything.
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Re: Is there a Portuguese investigation or not?

Post  candyfloss on Wed 27 Apr 2016, 10:27 pm

quote TB from over the road..

The point I'm making (and Joana as well if I've understood her aright) is that it doesn't exist in practice - to coin Richard Hall's phrase, it's a 'phantom' investigation, a dummy investigation, a pretend investigation, a non-investigation.



So for 5 years, 30 coppers have sat in their offices pretending to shuffle papers about, playing cards occasionally  looking at the files, and being told 'oh no, you didn't see that this is a pretend investigation...  You can't look into that.'  Or, perhaps there were  no 30 coppers on the case, they didn't exist either???  So there was no £12 million pounds spent either then, cos how can you spend so much on something that doesn't exist....  Smile



ETA  - He may be referring to PT investigation, but mentions SY in first line..  Both have same scenario, would both just waste money pretending to investigate, and what about Madeleine surely they all want justice for her.  Why on earth would the Portuguese join in with such a farce.


Last edited by candyfloss on Wed 27 Apr 2016, 10:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Is there a Portuguese investigation or not?

Post  dogs don't lie on Wed 27 Apr 2016, 10:35 pm

The Portuguese case is open, investigating all from abduction to accidental death by the child's parents.

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Re: Is there a Portuguese investigation or not?

Post  Andrew on Wed 27 Apr 2016, 10:48 pm

deleted Andrew, please talk about the post and discuss but not the poster.
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Re: Is there a Portuguese investigation or not?

Post  Dee Coy on Wed 27 Apr 2016, 10:52 pm

candyfloss wrote:quote TB from over the road..

The point I'm making (and Joana as well if I've understood her aright) is that it doesn't exist in practice - to coin Richard Hall's phrase, it's a 'phantom' investigation, a dummy investigation, a pretend investigation, a non-investigation.



So for 5 years, 30 coppers have sat in their offices pretending to shuffle papers about, playing cards occasionally  looking at the files, and being told 'oh no, you didn't see that this is a pretend investigation...  You can't look into that.'  Or, perhaps there were  no 30 coppers on the case, they didn't exist either???  So there was no £12 million pounds spent either then, cos how can you spend so much on something that doesn't exist....  Smile



ETA  - He may be referring to PT investigation, but mentions SY in first line..  Both have same scenario, would both just waste money pretending to investigate, and what about Madeleine surely they all want justice for her.  Why on earth would the Portuguese join in with such a farce.

We all know what he thinks about OG, and I can understand his viewpoint on the British investigation (you all know I'm a cynic about OG).

But how on Earth can he claim to know what is going on in either investigation,  and certainly not the Portuguese one? They keep their cards so close to their chests, how can Joana or Pat Brown know either, for that matter?

It bugs me that he is so dogmatic and pooh-poohs anyone who thinks differently when he himself simply cannot know.

Grr. He demanded a link earlier on from any of his diluded dissenters to show him who is in charge of the Portuguese investigation.  Hope he's seen that Express  link profiling the 3 women prominent in the judiciary system there, all of whom have pledged to crack this.

Or perhaps he didn't mean links to women...


Last edited by Dee Coy on Wed 27 Apr 2016, 11:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Is there a Portuguese investigation or not?

Post  Andrew on Wed 27 Apr 2016, 10:59 pm

Apologies admin, fot bringing over the rubbish.,..

No harm done i hope.
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Re: Is there a Portuguese investigation or not?

Post  dogs don't lie on Wed 27 Apr 2016, 11:43 pm

Anchor - Gonçalo, do you believe things at this moment are being routed for the process to be archived here in Portugal?

Gonçalo Amaral- I have no doubts whatsoever, what was done by Scotland Yard is practically at an end. What they wanted to do was basically to, and I had said this before, was to in a certain way to give credence to the couple and remove all suspicions that existed concerning the couple. They did a reconstitution here in Portugal, not with the couple but with actors; constituted a series of arguidos that have nothing to do with the case, just for the sake of constituting arguidos; they followed a number of false leads. Now they have reached an end, after having spent a lot of money, maybe there isn't any more money to spend, maybe the British public fund does not does not support such expenditure. And it will be archived, I can't see the Judiciary Police resuming the investigation when Scotland Yard ends theirs. In the end, the process was re-opened almost only and by the Scotland Yard, and when they leave the process will be archived just like before.


I'm off to bed

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Re: Is there a Portuguese investigation or not?

Post  chirpyinsect on Thu 28 Apr 2016, 6:20 am

That is the most depressing thing I have read in this case..They will get away with it. Even GA thinks so.

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Re: Is there a Portuguese investigation or not?

Post  froggy on Thu 28 Apr 2016, 8:48 am

chirpyinsect wrote:That is the most depressing thing I have read in this case..They will get away with it. Even GA thinks so.


They may, but they will never be free of suspicion.
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Re: Is there a Portuguese investigation or not?

Post  Poe on Thu 28 Apr 2016, 9:28 am

froggy wrote:
chirpyinsect wrote:That is the most depressing thing I have read in this case..They will get away with it. Even GA thinks so.


They may, but they will never be free of suspicion.


Mr Amaral knows that his every word and is being monitored by the McCanns.

GA wrote:What they wanted to do was basically to, and I had said this before, was to in a certain way to give credence to the couple and remove all suspicions that existed concerning the couple.

Even as a translation, you can see how carefully worded this sentence is. There are two ways to remove all suspicions from the couple - prove their innocence or prove their guilt. If SY wanted to prove the McCanns' innocence then shelving the investigation simply won't.

Assuming that he knows what is happening within both investigations from his contacts within the PJ, why would he say the one thing that they are desperate to hear: that the investigations will be shelved?

In his position, If I knew the investigation was going to be shelved, I'd refuse to comment and leave the McCanns under the pressure of waiting for that early morning knock on the door that will never come. On the other hand, if I knew that the investigation was genuine I'd claim it was a sham to raise their hopes.

That's my reading of it anyway.


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Re: Is there a Portuguese investigation or not?

Post  canada12 on Thu 28 Apr 2016, 9:37 am

Poe wrote:
Assuming that he knows what is happening within both investigations from his contacts within the PJ, why would he say the one thing that they are desperate to hear: that the investigations will be shelved?

In his position, If I knew the investigation was going to be shelved, I'd refuse to comment and leave the McCanns under the pressure of waiting for that early morning knock on the door that will never come. On the other hand, if I knew that the investigation was genuine I'd claim it was a sham to raise their hopes.

That's my reading of it anyway.



I was thinking that very same thing just now after reading the whole translation.
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