The European Union referendum

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Re: The European Union referendum

Post  unreorganised on Sat 25 Jun 2016, 8:19 pm

candyfloss wrote:Great comment, re the 1.5 million signing the petition (Telegraph) on the MSN page.........




David Graham · Dumbarton Academy

The British really do now have a pathetically childish mentality nowadays.as soon as something doesn't go your way you scweem and scweem and scweem until you are thick and get what you want.there was a vote.you lost.now move on.what next....most of the crowd watching the game weren't happy with the result so we are demanding a rematch until we get the result we want.and then the opposition will do the same.and on and on and on.

Haha, "losers not satisfied with outcome" shocker. Presumably the other thirty odd million who voted are satisfied with the result?

In other news, Northern Ireland are demanding a rematch with Wales. After all, there was only one goal in it. Hardly a mandate to proceed.
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Re: The European Union referendum

Post  chirpyinsect on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 12:13 pm

A question.

Does anybody who voted Leave now Bregret their decision?. Perhaps based on the lies told on what would happen to the supposed £350 million going to the NHS. Even Farage has said it was a mistake to make that claim.
Apparently a lot of people are now regretting where they put their cross. Some even saying they didn't actually think it would happen or they voted out as a protest against the government. WTF?
A very good argument against democracy is a 5 minute discussion with the average voter. Winston Churchill.
Perhaps there should have been a 14 day cooling off period.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-anger-bregret-leave-voters-protest-vote-thought-uk-stay-in-eu-remain-win-a7102516.html&ved=0ahUKEwihrMXLx8XNAhXmL8AKHYehDIQQqG8IGzAA&usg=AFQjCNEJWtxgx0Rf-7Y8f9Y2M6vqXUMJjA

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Re: The European Union referendum

Post  coppernob on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 12:29 pm

I will never regret my decision to vote leave, i'm working class but not stupid. I think remain side are scaremongering on a grand scale. We English have a voice at last and should be allowed to say who governs us and how, isn't that part of being a democracy? All this talk about overturning the vote will cause a civil war if it hasn't already. I am sick of the elite sneering at us, spreading the lie that the English will not do certain jobs, codswallop my whole town was built around manufacturing although most of the factories are long gone. Public services have a skeleton service in place, the NHS is sinking the great has long gone out of Britain and I want it back.
The people have spoken and that needs to be respected, to ignore would be fool hardy.
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Re:The European Union referendum.

Post  costello on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 12:34 pm

I don't regret voting to leave at all Chirpy, but then I never believed we actually paid the £350 million in the first instance, a lesser amount yes. I assumed that any saving on this money would be distributed
wherever and not just the NHS. Just the way I read it.
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Re: The European Union referendum

Post  joyce1938 on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 12:55 pm

Hi Costello. I totally agree, I too never thought it was meant that all that new money was to be spent all on NHS,many people did not realize that I think.joyce1938
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Re: The European Union referendum

Post  coppernob on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 1:04 pm

What I would also like to know is post referendum why all the mud slinging at Corbyn why none at Cameron and Osbourne? That in itself tells its own story of dirty tricks of the establishment.
Can I also ask if my posts are visible as I have noticed most are not acknowledged.
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Re: The European Union referendum

Post  chirpyinsect on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 1:05 pm

coppernob wrote:I will never regret my decision to vote leave, i'm working class but not stupid. I think remain side are scaremongering on a grand scale. We English have a voice at last and should be allowed to say who governs us and how, isn't that part of being a democracy? All this talk about overturning the vote will cause a civil war if it hasn't already. I am sick of the elite sneering at us, spreading the lie that the English will not do certain jobs, codswallop my whole town was built around manufacturing although most of the factories are long gone. Public services have a skeleton service in place, the NHS is sinking the great has long gone out of Britain and I want it back.
The people have spoken and that needs to be respected, to ignore would be fool hardy.

We English? Are you forgetting that it was a referendum for the people of the United Kingdom to decide, not the exclusive domain of England?
What will happen now to the borders of north and south Ireland and between Gibraltar and Spain? Do you rebuild Hadrian's wall if Scotland get Indie?
What happens to the Northern Ireland Agreement which is based on free movement of EU citizens? Do you just tear up all the years of blood and tears that it took to reach it?
Leave promised to control immigration, not curtail it. A points system could actually increase it.
The NHS could not survive if it weren't for non British workers and likely the same with the the transport system or the agricultural system.
Can you continue to pay 5 to 6% more for everything you import?. Can businesses who employ people and pay their wages, keep their businesses afloat when the currency they deal in is worth 20% less.
Britain might have been Great once upon a time but manufacturing has gone, coal mines are gone. Everything to do with any manufacturing that is left has to be imported.
Research and Development is almost entirely EU funded. What happens there? No more funding for cancer research or Alzheimers? Divert other precious resources which will be stretched to the limit?
Will Cornwall get the 60million it currently receives annually from the EU as a grant from central gov? Will Wales get tge equivalent of its grants?
Airfares will go up. Your holidays will cost more if you can even afford one.
What about all the people who moved to the UK, who work and contribute to the economy? Will they be forced to leave?
Will over a million British passport holders, most of who are elderly, now have to return home, putting a huge strain on the now understaffed NHS? Where are they going to live in overcrowded Britain?
I am not saying Leavers are stupid so please don't think I am but I wonder how many actually thought of any of the above consequences on Thursday. Or did the majority sign leave on their own disgruntled ( rightly) view of the establishment.

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Re:The European Union referendum.

Post  costello on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 1:07 pm

coppernob wrote:What I would also like to know is post referendum why all the mud slinging at Corbyn why none at Cameron and Osbourne? That in itself tells its own story of dirty tricks of the establishment.
Can I also ask if my posts are visible as I have noticed most are not acknowledged.

I totally agree with you coppernob. Where is George Osbourne?
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Re: The European Union referendum

Post  coppernob on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 1:12 pm

Claptrap re NHS and foreign workers I know loads of English who have trained to be nurses etc who can not get jobs. Yes we English (although I am half Irish) if the Scots , Welsh and Irish can be proud then so can I.
If Scots want to rule themselves let them. Us English have to pay for our higher education, prescriptions and residential care .
I am not racist, I welcome others coming to work here but not to drain our welfare state or in uncontrolled numbers.
I have an opnion and should be , in a democratic nation be allowed to state it without fear of being shouted down which is what has happened.
BTW I know my spelling and punctuation are not perfect the reason i tend to not post much

P.S As for holidays, I cant afford one now let alone post exit. Us working class have suffered with low wages for years . My town has seen its shipbuilding industry decimated and sent to Scotland, we are a nation which can re build our trade with other countries with out hands tied by the EU , Viva the future it feels so much brighter now


Last edited by coppernob on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 1:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The European Union referendum

Post  Dee Coy on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 1:16 pm

Each morning I've woken since the result with an increasing warm glow of happiness and another feeling I didn't recognise was there at first. It's an enormous sense of relief.

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Re: The European Union referendum

Post  coppernob on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 1:18 pm

Dee Coy wrote:Each morning I've woken since the result with an increasing warm glow of happiness and another feeling I didn't recognise was there at first. It's an enormous sense of relief.

S0 agree cheers
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Re: The European Union referendum

Post  coppernob on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 1:19 pm

costello wrote:
coppernob wrote:What I would also like to know is post referendum why all the mud slinging at Corbyn why none at Cameron and Osbourne? That in itself tells its own story of dirty tricks of the establishment.
Can I also ask if my posts are visible as I have noticed most are not acknowledged.

I totally agree with you coppernob. Where is George Osbourne?

Cool Suspect
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Re: The European Union referendum

Post  candyfloss on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 1:20 pm

coppernob wrote:What I would also like to know is post referendum why all the mud slinging at Corbyn why none at Cameron and Osbourne? That in itself tells its own story of dirty tricks of the establishment.
Can I also ask if my posts are visible as I have noticed most are not acknowledged.

Yes of course they are visible Smile - sometimes posts don't get acknowledged, mine never do Smile

Your are right about Corbyn, why is he taking the flack, and I see there is a coup to get rid of him...

It is being said Dianne Abbot is the new shadow Chancellor........WTF! That would be a bad decision though.

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Re: The European Union referendum

Post  coppernob on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 1:25 pm

candyfloss wrote:
coppernob wrote:What I would also like to know is post referendum why all the mud slinging at Corbyn why none at Cameron and Osbourne? That in itself tells its own story of dirty tricks of the establishment.
Can I also ask if my posts are visible as I have noticed most are not acknowledged.

Yes of course they are visible Smile  - sometimes posts don't get acknowledged, mine never do Smile

Your are right about Corbyn, why is he taking the flack, and I see there is a coup to get rid of him...

It is being said Dianne Abbot is the new shadow Chancellor........WTF!  That would be a bad decision though.

I like Corbyn and hope he survives this. It is being said this is all to deflect from the Chilcott report and to stop Corbyn denouncing Blair. Interesting times ahead .......
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Re:The European Union referendum.

Post  costello on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 1:28 pm

Dee Coy wrote:Each morning I've woken since the result with an increasing warm glow of happiness and another feeling I didn't recognise was there at first. It's an enormous sense of relief.

Me too Dee Coy. Apologies as I don't want to keep rambling on here.I only have one 'grouse' in that
when I voted to leave the EU, I did so as a British citizen regardless of the fact I am Scottish.
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Re: The European Union referendum

Post  candyfloss on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 1:32 pm

coppernob wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
coppernob wrote:What I would also like to know is post referendum why all the mud slinging at Corbyn why none at Cameron and Osbourne? That in itself tells its own story of dirty tricks of the establishment.
Can I also ask if my posts are visible as I have noticed most are not acknowledged.

Yes of course they are visible Smile  - sometimes posts don't get acknowledged, mine never do Smile

Your are right about Corbyn, why is he taking the flack, and I see there is a coup to get rid of him...

It is being said Dianne Abbot is the new shadow Chancellor........WTF!  That would be a bad decision though.

I like Corbyn and hope he survives this. It is being said this is all to deflect from the Chilcott report and to stop Corbyn denouncing Blair. Interesting times ahead .......

It's a crying shame all this backstabbing, they should be ashamed of themselves acting like kids in a playground.  They should all be pulling together to get this country up from it's knees and make it Great again.  They make me sick the lot of them, no wonder people are rebelling.  I think the referendum vote was more about the publics dislike for them all not the vote about Europe.  I must say I like Corbyn myself, and he deserves a go, in fact since he has been leader they have won all the by elections..

I see Tom Watson having to return from Glastonbury (shame)- they say to take over the reigns!!  Here he is such a shame at the train station...


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Re: The European Union referendum

Post  coppernob on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 1:33 pm

Costello, sorry if my post comes across as being anti Scottish as that is not what i'm about. I am proud to be from England and it has felt for such a long time that was not allowed. My Grandfather was brought up in the Scottish Highlands so I have Scottish roots too Smile
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Re:The European Union referendum.

Post  costello on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 1:35 pm

coppernob wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
coppernob wrote:What I would also like to know is post referendum why all the mud slinging at Corbyn why none at Cameron and Osbourne? That in itself tells its own story of dirty tricks of the establishment.
Can I also ask if my posts are visible as I have noticed most are not acknowledged.

Yes of course they are visible Smile  - sometimes posts don't get acknowledged, mine never do Smile

Your are right about Corbyn, why is he taking the flack, and I see there is a coup to get rid of him...

It is being said Dianne Abbot is the new shadow Chancellor........WTF!  That would be a bad decision though.

I like Corbyn and hope he survives this. It is being said this is all to deflect from the Chilcott report and to stop Corbyn denouncing Blair. Interesting times ahead .......

Thanks for the Chilcot info coppernob (I didn't know that). Agree, interesting times awaited indeed.


Last edited by costello on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 2:24 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling correction.)
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Re: The European Union referendum

Post  Mo on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 1:36 pm

I haven't checked if this has been posted -


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyd31Zt82K8

Great bloke
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Re: The European Union referendum

Post  coppernob on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 1:37 pm

@Candyfloss how does that so go when the going gets tough?
I can not believe that our PM has deserted us in the countries time of need if that dosnt come across as self serving.
Who ever takes the reigns and has the balls to lead us through will be seen as a leader with backbone I feel.


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Re: The European Union referendum

Post  Dee Coy on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 1:38 pm

coppernob wrote:What I would also like to know is post referendum why all the mud slinging at Corbyn why none at Cameron and Osbourne? That in itself tells its own story of dirty tricks of the establishment.
Can I also ask if my posts are visible as I have noticed most are not acknowledged.

I quite agree, coppernob.

The very fact that Corbyn won the Labour leadership with such a majority was a precurser to the referendum result. The rank and file public want real change and a real alternative.

Rather than pandering to the old Blairites still polluting representative Labour in parliament Jeremy Corbyn should seize the day. The people don't want old Labour, that's the point. They want new representatives who reflect the need for change. For investment into the rest of the country other than London and the monied South. They want industry back, the right to fish our waters, the right to manufacture and a future. They want life back in the Northern towns. The working classes would have voted to leave the EU regardless of what Labour told them.

Corbyn should have stuck to his view of the last 40 years and come out firmly to Leave. I fear he pandered to the will of his MPs with his half-hearted Remain approach. A mistake. He should pander no longer, dismiss his dissenters and surround himself with like-minded MPs who reflect the feelings of the people they are supposed to represent. That way he will become a credible leader for change which is what the country wants.

Not a credible candidate for PM? Well, people swore he wasn't a credible candidate for Labour Leader. We were told Leave wasn't a credible option. The country will be surprised at just what is credible if the Labour party has the courage if it's membership's convictions. Change is needed - Corbyn can spearhead that if he holds tight, sheds the deadwood and is brave enough NOW.


Last edited by Dee Coy on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 1:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: The European Union referendum

Post  unreorganised on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 1:38 pm

chirpyinsect wrote:A question.

Does anybody who voted Leave now Bregret their decision?. Perhaps based on the lies told on what would happen to the supposed £350 million going to the NHS. Even Farage has said it was a mistake to make that claim.
Apparently a lot of people are now regretting where they put their cross. Some even saying they didn't actually think it would happen or they voted out as a protest against the government. WTF?
A very good argument against democracy is a 5 minute discussion with the average voter. Winston Churchill.
Perhaps there should have been a 14 day cooling off period.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-anger-bregret-leave-voters-protest-vote-thought-uk-stay-in-eu-remain-win-a7102516.html&ved=0ahUKEwihrMXLx8XNAhXmL8AKHYehDIQQqG8IGzAA&usg=AFQjCNEJWtxgx0Rf-7Y8f9Y2M6vqXUMJjA

Since when did people regretting their vote in the aftermath have any sway over the democratic process? I overheard somebody claiming the other day that if she had expected "leave" to actually win then she wouldn't have voted that way. She also claimed that if Trump gets elected then "that will be it". I would have asked her to elaborate, but she's clearly an idiot.
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Re:The European Union referendum.

Post  costello on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 1:53 pm

coppernob wrote:Costello, sorry if my post comes across as being anti Scottish as that is not what i'm about. I am proud to be from England and it has felt for such a long time that was not allowed. My Grandfather was brought up in the Scottish Highlands so I have Scottish roots too Smile

Absolutely no reason to apologize coppernob. Can I ask a question re- The Chilcot affair, was this the reason Tony Blair was involved with the referendum? I'd appreciate your views on this. It was reported on TV early Friday morning that TB had arrived at some official building (missed which one) and the
inference seemed to be why? It did get me wondering to be honest.


Last edited by costello on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 2:23 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling correction.)
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Re: The European Union referendum

Post  coppernob on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 2:09 pm

I hope this is ok to post, if not Mods please delete, from Craig Murray:

Craig Murray

It’s Still the Iraq War, Stupid.

26 Jun, 2016

No rational person could blame Jeremy Corbyn for Brexit. So why are the Blairites moving against Corbyn now, with such precipitate haste? The answer is the Chilcot Report. It is only a fortnight away, and though its form will be concealed by thick layers of establishment whitewash, the basic contours of Blair’s lies will still be visible beneath. Corbyn had deferred to Blairite pressure not to apologise on behalf of the Labour Party for the Iraq War until Chilcot is published.

For the Labour Right, the moment when Corbyn as Labour leader stands up in parliament and condemns Blair over Iraq, is going to be as traumatic as it was for the hardliners of the Soviet Communist Party when Khruschev denounced the crimes of Stalin. It would also destroy Blair’s carefully planned post-Chilcot PR strategy. It is essential to the Blairites that when Chilcot is debated in parliament in two weeks time, Jeremy Corbyn is not in place as Labour leader to speak in the debate. The Blairite plan is therefore for the parliamentary party to depose him as parliamentary leader and get speaker John Bercow to acknowledge someone else in that fictional position in time for the Chilcot debate, with Corbyn remaining leader in the country but with no parliamentary status.

Yes, they are that nuts.

If the fault line for the Tories is Europe, for Labour it is the Middle East. Those opposing Corbyn are defined by their enthusiasm for bombing campaigns that kill Muslim children. And not only by the UK. Both of the first two to go, Hilary Benn and Heidi Alexander, are hardline supporters of Israel.

This was Benn the week before his celebrated advocacy of bombing Syria:

'Shadow Foreign Secretary Hilary Benn told a Labour Friends of Israel (LFI) lunch yesterday that relations with Israel must be based on cooperation and rejected attempts to isolate the country. Addressing senior party figures in Westminster, Benn praised Israel for its “progressive spirit, vibrant democracy, strong welfare state, thriving free press and independent judiciary.” He also called Israel “an economic giant, a high-tech centre, second only to the United States. A land of innovation and entrepreneurship, venture capital and graduates, private and public enterprise.” Consequently, said Benn, “Our future relations must be built on cooperation and engagement, not isolation of Israel. We must take on those who seek to delegitimise the state of Israel or question its right to exist.”

Heidi Alexander actually signed, as a 2015 parliamentary candidate, the “We Believe in Israel” charter, the provisions of which state there must be no boycotts of Israel, and Israel must not be described as an apartheid state. This fault line is very well defined. The manufactured row about “anti-Semitism” in the Labour Party shows exactly the same split. In my researches, 100% of those who have promoted accusations of anti-Semitism were supporters of the Iraq War and/or had demonstrable links to professional pro-Israel lobby groups. 100% of those accused of anti-Semitism were active opponents of the Iraq War. Never underestimate the Blairite fury at being shown not just to be liars but to be wrong. Iraq is their Achilles heel and they are extremely touchy about it.

No rational person would believe Brexit was Jeremy Corbyn’s fault. No rational person would believe that now is a good moment for the Labour Party to tear itself apart. Extraordinarily, the timing is determined by Chilcot.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives ... ar-stupid/


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Re:The European Union referendum.

Post  costello on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 2:19 pm

Thanks for that coppernob, hmm....
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