Creche dad

It's occurred to me that creche dad was created for one purpose only: to let Jane Tanner off the hook.
It also made the Smith sighting the most important one. 

That way she had not lied but merely been mistaken. we would have to work out why SY would be so obliging. They may even have found a creche dad around that time but one with the same pyjamas on the child  was pushing it a bit I feel. 

The tapas, as we saw from the Dianne Webster rogatory  were very likely under a 'super inaudible' and in the rogatories there are lies, badly disguised adjustments and impossible timelines, all seemingly to shore up the official -TM -  version of events. But at least one of these is now listed as a mistake.

So one suspect gone although no enthusiasm from TM  for creche dad, bundleman continued to feature on their website. 

No enthusiasm either for the e-fits and the revelation that these had lingered at the back of a drawer ever since their creation by Exton, one of their detectives who'd taken the job seriously and had interviewed witnesses instead - as the comedy duo Cowley and whatshisname did - of  pretending to be cherry pickers in the lawless hinterlands of the Algarve. 

The Times broke loose from their restrictions and revealed that TM had hidden this vital evidence for five years. 

So why had these detectives actually gone and done some detecting? For Halligen, the apparent head of Oakley Int. had  set up a useless  24/7 phoneline which did not report back to TM and apparently it was harder to get to speak to an operative than getting through to British Gas. 

The e-fits must have come as quite a shock to TM, Halligen had clearly not given the right instructions to his staff. (To go out and find creepy, spotty men and childless women)

In any case,  bundleman was ditched, replaced by two e-fits of the man seen by the Smiths, the Paynes are left out of the reconstruction, (they changed their initial statement iirc and didn't  put Gerry at the table during the crucial time) JT in the TM reconstruction commented on the long time Gerry was absent from the table. 
In short Gerry's alibi doesn't look safe any longer. 

Creche dad:  JT did not lie, changes the time of the  window of opportunity but iirc (PeterMac) did not increase the few minutes of opportunity.
Deprives Gerry of his rock-solid alibi.
Makes Wilkins' testimony pointless.
Smithman is now at the top.
Paynes do not put Gerry at the table around ten. 
It's made known that two crucial e-fits have been held back for five years by TM. 

Hmm.

I personally think that Jane was not mistaken. She was just 'persuaded' in the 'plan' to tell an outright porkie.

As for this 'genuine Crechedad' by SY - not convinced either. Seems all very odd to me.

However I like the fact that SY eliminated 'him' regardless and focused on Smithman which ruffled many feathers in the McCann camp.

As I have said before - if this was some sort of whitewash then SY would of got shot of Smithman straight away and focused on Tanner/creche man.

I so hope that the green room, car and hotel rooms the McCanns used before and after filming Crimewatch were bugged.

Can you imagine the effing and blinding that went on when the McCanns went off camera...



and Gerry might have sworn a bit too

Andrew wrote:I personally think that Jane was not mistaken. She was just 'persuaded' in the 'plan' to tell an outright porkie.

As for this 'genuine Crechedad' by SY - not convinced either. Seems all very odd to me.

However I like the fact that SY eliminated 'him' regardless and focused on Smithman which ruffled many feathers in the McCann camp.

As I have said before - if this was some sort of whitewash then SY would of got shot of Smithman straight away and focused on Tanner/creche man.

O quite! Imo, JT never saw anybody, she lied about bundleman, she lied about it being Murat later and having been pushed to lie about Murat, did her best to retract in the rogatory.
But Murat was pointed out by the GB profiler (and MI5 possibly), so perhaps JT was a victim or the patsy of the spin.  I'm still sure that the protection and TM  had diverging agendas, the last one thanks to a very generous public, 50 million hits on their websites and the chance to make it big and rich that much sooner than expected.  

In the early days it was presumed that Maddie would be found dead, but as is pointed out in McCannfiles.com, as from the 17th May Maddie is not only alive but has not come to any harm. 
A mantra endlessly repeated by Gerry and co. Sightings were essential from that day onwards. 
One of my more grisly memories is of John McCann posing the likelyhood of Maddie having been with a paedophile for 5 or 6 years and saying cheerfully that 'they will get her through it' . Through what (serious.... expletitive!!!!) or how? I think it was in relation to the Kampush girl. 

But back to the early days. 
The honeymoon period lasted till about the end of June. 
The Mcs started almost immediately on a European tour - why? 
The international visits stopped soon after the beginning of June - why? 
The invitation to the US took until the end of July and was not with the president's wife - why? 
This last may well be because some background research had been done by the CIA. 

In any case JT might be more pitied than blamed if she was used by TM and the protection squad to be their chosen witness. Which is possibly  why crecheman was invented. She must have been mistaken and so she never lied, she will never have to point the finger at people who told her to lie.

Tigger wrote:It's occurred to me that creche dad was created for one purpose only: to let Jane Tanner off the hook.
It also made the Smith sighting the most important one. 

It had another effect as well. Prior to the "discovery" of creche-man, tanner-man was the "abductor". However, there was a problem with this that has been widely discussed in the past - there isn't enough time for tanner-man to get in, grab Madeleine and get out between the final check and JT "seeing" him. What crech-man does exactly what Redwood said at that time (iirc); it opens up the timeline, with the consequence that there is enough time for an abduction: It corrects the error in the previous (TM) timeline whilst simultaneously letting Tanner off the hook. It's possible that this was the intention.

AndyB wrote:

Tigger wrote:It's occurred to me that creche dad was created for one purpose only: to let Jane Tanner off the hook.
It also made the Smith sighting the most important one. 

It had another effect as well. Prior to the "discovery" of creche-man, tanner-man was the "abductor". However, there was a problem with this that has been widely discussed in the past - there isn't enough time for tanner-man to get in, grab Madeleine and get out between the final check and JT "seeing" him. What crech-man does exactly what Redwood said at that time (iirc); it opens up the timeline, with the consequence that there is enough time for an abduction: It corrects the error in the previous (TM) timeline whilst simultaneously letting Tanner off the hook. It's possible that this was the intention.

If its a whitewash then opening the timeline is/was needed.It allows JT to have seen someone thus lending credence to her story.The next visit was at 9-30,no actual sighting of MM,so the timeline is now 9-15 ish til 10 ish.Was it at 9-30 that the shutters were supposed to have been jemmied?
Trouble is the dogs,it'll always come back to their alerts.

I remember PeterMac posting a detailed new timeline which actually made the timeslot even narrower.  To synchronise with the Smith sighting it would certainly be quite small. 

What strikes me as well is that the GNR dogs ended up in the car park near the same spot. 

Now the only sensible way to transport a toddler when you want to be well away from  the crime scene is by car. If she'd been targeted in  the preceding days surely a car for the abduction - no guarantee that she'd not throw a mega tantrum - into 5a pick up child and into the car. One minute max. 
However, why was the plan for an abduction on foot? I'm also thinking of Mr. Flack seeing a car prob.  on the 2nd, then there was a grey car parked in the road. But TM never propose a car. They see bundleman walking away from the car park. 

Then there is also the witness who gives the exact time when she left that car park (see  the witness statement in ref. Section) 10.02 or so iirc and all was quiet. 

If there was a mistake made in the UK and the alarm was given at or before 10.00 (thinking the abduction had happened at 9.00 UK time) it is actually possible  that the alarm in the UK was earlier than the one in PdL. 

It is certainly the case that if the Ambassador phoned Ribeiro at 11.00 pm, the chain of information and command was certainly  incredibly fast. 
Contact in UK.  Phones contact in FO - needs to have home nr. Etc. 
FO contacts next man above him - again not so easy that time of night imo.
FO official in charge gets on to Lisbon embassy - there may be several steps involved here. 
Ambassador finds out who to phone - makes call. 
Looking at it like that it reads like a declaration of war couldn't have been processed faster...

Tigger wrote:
It is certainly the case that if the Ambassador phoned Ribeiro at 11.00 pm, the chain of information and command was certainly  incredibly fast. 
Contact in UK.  Phones contact in FO - needs to have home nr. Etc. 
FO contacts next man above him - again not so easy that time of night imo.
FO official in charge gets on to Lisbon embassy - there may be several steps involved here. 
Ambassador finds out who to phone - makes call. 
Looking at it like that it reads like a declaration of war couldn't have been processed faster...

Which would suggest a high level involvement,which in turn will lead to a whitewash from OG or at attempt of one,the PJ have them where they want them.

caricature wrote:

Tigger wrote:
It is certainly the case that if the Ambassador phoned Ribeiro at 11.00 pm, the chain of information and command was certainly  incredibly fast. 
Contact in UK.  Phones contact in FO - needs to have home nr. Etc. 
FO contacts next man above him - again not so easy that time of night imo.
FO official in charge gets on to Lisbon embassy - there may be several steps involved here. 
Ambassador finds out who to phone - makes call. 
Looking at it like that it reads like a declaration of war couldn't have been processed faster...

Which would suggest a high level involvement,which in turn will lead to a whitewash from OG or at attempt of one,the PJ have them where they want them.

Ah yes, Bell Pottinger were also on site very fast. I blame Blair, used to think Brown, but imo Blair's footprints all over it. Now Brown apparently had only just managed to lever Blair  out of nr. 10. I read an informed piece once that it was finally achieved by a threat of sleaze- related information on Blair. Can well believe it. 
But he'd be looking for glory in Europe imo and this was a way to achieve it. 
He'd been trying to get IDs through parliament, Europe wanted a DNA base of all citizens etc. 

Imo The European trips of the Mcs were organized for that reason, with indecent haste and still whilst Blair was in power. 
He'd not let the reins of power go untill the last minute imo. 

Brown carried on but his heart was never in it, didn't use them as vote winners, getting photographed with them, referred them to low level officials once they were back in UK. I think he knew that Blair had passed him the poisoned chalice.

What I don't get in any of it,is what did Madeleine do to deserve any of this whether its accidental,murder or how ever she met her demise,just what is been covered up and why? what ever comes out if it ever does will not be a surprise out of the many theories.
Apologises for off topic.

Going back to creche man,I know some reject Textusa but she brought up an interesting scenario regarding JW,why out walking with a baby at that time of night,was he involved in the swinging with some one and disturbed the planned faked abduction.Was this the time the shutters were meant to be jemmied,but some one was disturbed and to avoid suspicion of something Tannerman was invented to cover.
All IMO.

IMO based on what I think, which is that Madeleine regretfully already met her demise on May 2 , taking into account the non-existing one-hour-difference between Portugal and the U.K., is that alerts were launched too early and shutters were not "jemmied" in time ... which is, indeed, what one could call a "disaster" ...

Some interesting stuff being discussed elsewhere. Thanks to skyrocket.
He./she is debating with TB as to whether or not M's creche was located at the main reception which is interesting in its own right, however this snippet struck me as important.

We offer a ‘dining out service’ (only available for parents using the Millenium and Tapas restaurants). in the crèche on a drop-in basis in the evenings for children aged 4 months to 9 years. For those parents wishing to dine at alternative restaurants in the village, babysitting is available on request at additional charge. Our Indy Club for 14-17 year olds is situated near the Ocean Club Gardens.'

So if the infamous Crechedad was a genuine father picking up his child from the creche ( or dining out service as MW refer to it) he has to have dined at the Millennium or Tapas that night. If that is the case he must have been a guest at OC as I don't think those eateries were open to non guests. Anyone know?

Just found this in the files.

We went to the area where we attempted to locate the Millenium Restaurant, to verify it, that the same belonged to the tourist resort Ocean Club of Praia da Luz. In that place, we verified that to access it it is necessary to pass through the reception where they demanded our identification. The head of the restaurant, Luis Barros, contactable on mobile xxx, clarified that the group of whom the missing child and her parents were part, comprising eight adults and nine children, ate in that restaurant on the day they arrived, namely 28.04.2007, because the other restaurants of the resort were closed. They all ate as a group, parents and children. He referred also that that group came with a half-board scheme, i.e. the right to breakfast and to dinner. In relation to dinner they only ate there on that day, although they took breakfast every day in that place accompanied by the children. He pointed out that, while the space is open to the general public for dinner, it is used almost exclusively by clients of the "resort". Having been shown the photo of the Polish couple, he did not recognise them. We also contacted the receptionist, Monica Marques, mobile number xxx, who told us that besides herself her colleague Elisa, mobile number xxx, and intermittently Luisa Coutinho, mobile number xxx, worked there. Having been shown the photograph of the Polish individuals, Monica Marques said that she had never seen those people.


So the M is open to the public but is used almost exclusively by guests. Did A Redwood ever state crechedad was a guest?

It would seem the evening crèche was quite a way away...

...just found this - by Andrew Oxlade

http://blogs.thisismoney.co.uk/2007/05/my_experience_o.html

"09 May 2007 1:32 PM
My experience of Maddie's resort in Praia de Luz, the Algarve

I need to break from the usual financial slant of posts on this blog. I'm sure you'll understand as I thing's it's important to give my views on this...

My family and I returned last week relaxed from a holiday at the sleepy end of Portugal’s Algarve. We were, however, stunned to wake on Friday morning, days after we returned, to hear news that a girl, three-year-old Madeleine McCann, had gone missing from the same complex, yards from where we stayed.

We picked the Ocean Club resort in Praia de Luz, a quiet village, because of its connections with Mark Warner Holidays. The company has a growing reputation among families for offering comprehensive childcare wrapped in packages with free sports activities, such as tennis and water sports. The balance of a family holiday with time to relax away from the kids is attractive to millions of Britons.

We had a great time, able to spend time together as a family while also having some time out. Sam, our two-year-old son, was well looked after while we lounged by the pool, or why I played tennis or sailed. My wife Andrea and I even made nightly jaunts to local restaurants, a rare treat for new parents.

Luz, as the locals call it, is a laid back resort with a mix of Portugese holidaymakers and locals and, in off-peak May, a smaller number of foreign tourists. A handful of restaurants and bars in the town have a balance of mainly British families and friendly locals. This is an area you would not associate with crime, let alone the abduction of a child.

The Ocean Club has several hubs. One is a 24-hour reception, the other two have swimming pools, restaurants and tennis courts. At their furthest point, these centres are 10 minutes walk apart. In between are Ocean Club apartments mixed with local homes.

The options for childcare were numerous, well organised and of a very high standard. A well-staffed nursery with a child-to-carer ratio that was often just two-to-one, took youngsters from 9.30 to 12.30 every day and from 2.30 to 5.30 in the afternoon.

These creche facilities were next to the poolside Tapas restaurant where Madeleine’s parents were eating when she disappeared.

Madeleine and the younger twins Amelie and Sean were sleeping at the McCanns’ apartment overlooking the swimming pool at the main hub of the resort. Around that pool was the Tapas bar which was in high demand every night. Most guests went to the buffet at the Ocean Club’s Millennium restaurant, a 10-minute walk away from the McCanns’ apartment. But eager guests would queue from 9am to book one of the limited number of tables at the Tapas bar, which served barbecued fish and meat dishes to order. Both restaurants were included in the price of the holiday.

The McCanns’ choice to leave their children at the flat and make regular checks is surprising given the alternatives. In their defence, they may have been expecting, as advertised in Mark Warner brochures, a ‘listening service’. Staff told us that the service had been discontinued because the apartments were too spread out. The resort, however, offered a baby-sitting service for 15 euros (£10) an hour, which was staffed by a member of the daytime nursery teams, or a ‘dining out club’. This involved parents dropping off children at the crèche where they would be supervised watching videos until they went to sleep. Parents would then return before 11.30 to scoop up their sleepy offspring.

I can imagine the McCanns’ dilemma. The ‘dining out club’ was more than a five-minute walk from where the McCanns stayed along cobbled streets or a winding pedestrian path through the apartments. It’s not far - it worked brilliantly for us on most nights - but it would have felt much further if you had to ferry thee children there and back (and hope they were still asleep after doing so). Plus parents were required to wait until children under two, which includes the McCanns’ twins, were asleep. We talked to parents who said this was enough to put them off the option.

The McCanns opted instead to eat 40-50m from their apartment, not much more than a pool’s width away. They hoped it would be just close enough to hear a crying baby but with bar music playing and restaurant hubbub, it wasn’t close enough to hear what happened to Madeleine that night.

I can't imagine what they're going through now. I, along with millions others, only hope they can find her soon and safe.

- Andrew Oxlade, Editor, This is Money

Interesting. I've never heard that bit before about having to wait until children under two were asleep. Hard to believe; you might be there all night!

The twins of course were not under two at the time though.

I wonder if Andrew Oxlade has any recent thoughts on the case knowing what we do now.

I think it pretty irrelevant where any creche was because "creche dad" was walking in the wrong direction/ place for any.

The bigger question is what was the motive of SY for removing it from the timeline? To help the M's or may be a deal for JT? Last time I checked "crecheman" was still on the M's official website? That says a lot to me.

Just found a previous topic about Andrew Oxlade.

https://maddiemccannmystery.forumotion.co.uk/t688-andrew-oxlade-my-experience-of-maddie-s-resort-in-praia-de-luz-the-algarve-09-may-2007

TheTruthWillOut wrote:I think it pretty irrelevant where any creche was because "creche dad" was walking in the wrong direction/ place for any.

The bigger question is what was the motive of SY for removing it from the timeline? To help the M's or may be a deal for JT? Last time I checked "crecheman" was still on the M's official website? That says a lot to me.

Yep - 'Crecheman' is still there. In full glory.

Can't see how it helps the Mc's myself. Apart from giving JT a way out of a big hole she got herself in. (pressured).

All about Crecheman - not about the Smith sighting. On the contrary to what the old fella says.

Big pain in the arse was the Smiths. Again, on the contrary to what the old fella says.

Yep.

The police have to be very careful what they say.

Anything other than an abduction points the finger squarely at the McCanns putting the twins, the investigation and the McCanns themselves in danger. So while the police may gently ease the odd brick from the foundations of the abduction story, they'll want to keep the main facade sound until they are ready to blow the whole case apart.

IMO.