Dianne Webster's rogatory interviews

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANE-WEBSTER-2.htm


4078    “You also, when we spoke earlier, expressed a sense of frustration about the fact that you’d all been banned by the Super (inaudible).”
Reply    “That’s right, yes.”

4078    “And you’d been very restrained in what you said.”
Reply    “Yeah, yeah.”


=====


I'm re-reading the statements & rogs. (New Year's resolution?).

Please someone, was DC 4078 referring to a Superinjunction here?

We like to call it a 'super inaudible'     - makes a lot of sense and doesn't get us into trouble. 

DW is not completely on board with the time when she last saw Maddie - she does not confirm the official version.

Thank you Tigger, I knew I could rely on you.      Hope I haven't mentioned the unmentionable?      

DW is perhaps the most - if not only - accurate witness report imo, so worth another read.

Maybe someone can clear something up for me here, whether it's fact or just forum myth.

I remember reading that when Madeleine was first reported missing, all the others got up from the table and started flapping about, all apart from Dianne Webster. She just sat there and said something like "oh it's just another one of their games". I'm paraphrasing, but that's the gist of it.

It always intrigued me as to whether the McCanns had been laying the ground work all week, pointing to pre-planning.

This was on the 3A`s but no one seems to have substantiated it.

When Kate McCann ran to the tapas bar to announce that Madeleine was missing, everyone ran back with her to the apartment except Diane Webster. She was reported as saying that at first she thought it was just another of their "games". What were those "games"? Did the group decide not to engage babysitters so that they could play their "games" uninterrupted? Did something happen to Madeleine while one of those "games" was being played?

I just got the impression that "games" meant that they'd been acting the goat all week, and DW was getting pissed off with them.

Dianne went with the group to 5a and was then told by Fiona to go back to the table to look after their things. 
Once back there - she was asked by the tennis coach if they'd left her alone. 


The list of witnesses of that night is in the reference section. Iirc it was between 9.30 and 10, so not after 10..

In her 3 statements DW says she remained at the table I think.

KM comes back saying "she's gone" everyone gets up, DW asks Fiona what she should do and Fiona tells her to stay at the table in case Maddie is looking for them.

After a bit David returns to DW at the Tapas and asks her if she will go to 5a.

bluebell wrote:

In her 3 statements DW says she remained at the table I think.  

KM comes back saying "she's gone"  everyone gets up, DW asks Fiona what she should do and Fiona tells her to stay at the table in case Maddie is looking for them.

After a bit David returns to DW at the Tapas and asks her if she will go to 5a.

I think I read it in one of the rogs, poss. Pennington, a non Tapas in any case. Must have a look at DW's again.
I thought Gerry also mentioned he tested the shutters when DW was there.

IIRC DW checked the shutters herself too. Independent from GM.
Will have to check Rogs too ...

Châtelaine wrote:IIRC DW checked the shutters herself too. Independent from GM.
Will have to check Rogs too ...

You are quite right Chatelaine, what a good memory

DW says she tried to open the closed shutter from outside, but couldn't. Somehow though I thought only KM's fingerprints were

on them...... or was that the window?

That's the thing, if there was unidentified prints on the window or shutters it would've been known,
Oh no, what if there was and its in the missing files?
Off topic, but does anyone know what kind of files would be held back? Who picks what's released and what's not?

bluebell wrote:

Châtelaine wrote:IIRC DW checked the shutters herself too. Independent from GM.
Will have to check Rogs too ...

You are quite right Chatelaine, what a good memory

DW says she tried to open the closed shutter from outside, but couldn't.    Somehow though I thought only KM's fingerprints were

on them...... or was that the window?    

Yes the window on the inside

Resistor wrote:Maybe someone can clear something up for me here, whether it's fact or just forum myth.

I remember reading that when Madeleine was first reported missing, all the others got up from the table and started flapping about, all apart from Dianne Webster.  She just sat there and said something like "oh it's just another one of their games".  I'm paraphrasing, but that's the gist of it.

It always intrigued me as to whether the McCanns had been laying the ground work all week, pointing to pre-planning.

Just says to me that they had been fighting all week.  I fail to see the logical leap that takes it to 'laying the ground work' which would point to pre-planning.  They could have been just, you know, fighting.

Interesting WLBTS ...

OK, it MIGHT point to pre-planning.

Châtelaine wrote:Interesting WLBTS ...

If they had been fighting all week then that would be something they would naturally want to cover up.  On the assumption that this hypothesis is accurate, the McCanns would not want the police to know about it - it would immediately ring alarm bells.  Secondly, they wouldn't want the media to know about it.  They had to portray themselves as the perfect, 'middle-class' couple - as victims.

So if they and the rest of the holiday group covered up fighting, then that could account for inconsistencies and mysterious vacuums in their accounts of their week.  For example, it is a popular view that the absence of any mention of the happenings of May 2nd indicates that something suspicious happened that day, and that surely it must be the death of the child or something connected to it.  I say that that is but one possibility - another possibility is that the McCanns weren't speaking to each other at all that day, and rather than make up a fictional account to cover that day's events - which would be a very risky undertaking, people very easily get their 'facts' wrong - they just elected to not speak about it at all.

May 2nd was also the day that Kate signed the creche record with her maiden name for the only time.

And it's pretty clear that they fell out on the evening of the 1st.

Dianne Webster's statements are interesting in a number of ways.  For me, one of these points is her claim in her very first statement that David Payne accompanied her as they went from the tennis courts to their apartment, and that he helped to put the children to bed.  DW doesn't make any mention of where her daughter was during this time.

To me it makes sense that Fiona went to see Kate in 5A.  Fiona was the closest person to Kate.  Sending DP to 5A makes no sense at all - you'd ask the person who got on with them the best, not their husband.

If this was the case, then it explains the differing accounts of the visit allegedly by David Payne - that's what happens when people are making things up.

It also fits perfectly if the McCanns had been fighting.  Kate had been in a huff all day, jogging by herself and whatnot (hypothetically speaking).  When everyone leaves the tennis courts, Fiona goes off to see if Kate's alright, to have a chat.

So if any of this is accurate, then there must have been a reason to substitute the visitor with David Payne, because there should have been nothing suspicious about Fiona going to see her friend.

I'm aware that none of this is as exciting as swinging, grand micro-chipping conspiracies, or that the entire holiday was a charade.

A quick look at the first statements of David and Fiona Payne:

David Payne - no mention of any visit to 5A by anyone.

Fiona Payne: "Yesterday they slightly altered their routine, they went to the beach with the children and her mother Dianne. They arrived there around 15H45 and left at 18H15, and headed towards the tennis court until about 19H00. Immediately afterwards, the witness headed towards the apartment with her children, and her mother. Ten minutes later her husband David appeared. In the apartment her mother, helped by her husband David, bathed the children whilst the witness went jogging on the beach until around 20H00. Afterwards, she returned to the apartment and got ready. She left around 20H45, accompanied by David and her mother, in order to meet the rest of the group in the Tapas restaurant."

So Fiona claimed that she went for a jog on the beach instead of getting her children ready for bed.  Doesn't sound likely to me.

Then we have this rather interesting note in the PJ files which relates a visit made by Fiona to 5a on the evening of the 3rd

I examined once again the declarations of Fiona Payne. In her depositions, she states that she went to the McCann apartment, around 19H00, on the 3rd of May, together with Kate. She states afterwards that, 10 minutes later, the husband arrived; it is not clear which husband she refers to.

The full note can be seen at link
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/Gaspar.htm

I'm in the belief that Mrs Webster did not have a clue.

Perhaps later on she was briefed but at the time no.

Andrew wrote:I'm in the belief that Mrs Webster did not have a clue.

Perhaps later on she was briefed but at the time no.

I agree .

Andrew wrote:I'm in the belief that Mrs Webster did not have a clue.

Perhaps later on she was briefed but at the time no.

I too agree.

Funnily enough, I re-read Dianne's rog in full the other day after being reminded by the "Super (inaudible)" comment by someone on Twitter.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANE-WEBSTER-2.htm

Some things that stuck out for me:

Dianne appeared to be pressured into going on the holiday despite expressing doubts about being in the company of a group of friends she barely knew:

4078    ”And how much, I say how much did you have to do with the group before, you know have you been away with the group before?”

Reply    ”Oh no, no and originally err my recollection is that the, the holiday that, that err we eventually went on err I think originally it was Fiona and Dave that err booked it and invited me and my husband along if we wanted to go on it. He didn’t want to go because its not his sort of holiday and then later on it err it grew that there was other, other people going along as well, which I was unaware of at the time and err I sort of said to Dave well you know if you’ve got friends going forget about me, you know, I won’t, I won’t come and he said no, no you must come along and so that’s how I came to be on the holiday.”


She spent quite a lot of time on her own:

Reply    ”Err and that, that morning, I’d only ever gone to the Millennium twice for breakfast which is where they went for breakfast that, that was the only place you could have breakfast err and I didn’t go because it was too much of a rush having the tennis lesson supposedly starting at quarter past nine, to trail all the way down there for breakfast and then have to rush back and play tennis.”

4078    ”Play tennis on a full stomach.”
Reply    ”So I, I was the one, I just stayed in the apartment and got myself a bit of toast and a cup of coffee whereas the others…”

....

4078    ”So after your tennis then, what would you generally do after your tennis?”
Reply    ”Oh dear, (sighs) well I’d go back to the apartment I know that and probably have a shower and err, err sometimes I’d just sit out on the veranda err other occasions I might go down to the pool and err do a bit of sunbathing.”

....

4078    “And after lunch the children used to sleep during the siesta, you’d normally take care of them whilst David and Fiona took part in leisure activities.

....

4078    “Just to see if there’s anything that may jog your memory. I’ll just summarise, basically you said to them that you were with your family really only in the afternoon and the evening because you were mainly reading, going shopping and doing other things.


She noticed the window and shutter were down and, like PeterMac and Pat Brown, tried to open the shutter fully from the outside with no success - it only partially lifted:

4078    “Okay, the other thing was, you mentioned that when you went back into Kate and Gerry’s apartment immediately after Madeleine had gone missing, and I know you didn’t specify a time, and you went into the room and I think you made a comment that Kate had spoken to you about the shutters being, the window being open.”
Reply    “Yeah the shutters being up and the window open, yeah.”

4078    “Did you see that window at the time?”
Reply    “No I, my recollection is that err I think the shutter had been let back down again or err I don’t, I don’t recall the window being open at the time I went so whether they’d closed it because obviously it was draughty for the twins but I, I can’t be a hundred percent sure about that.”

4078    “Okay, but Kate told you that she’d found the window open and, did she mention the curtains?”
Reply    “Err well at that point I can’t, I can’t remember, a lot, a lot of what I’m saying is perhaps some of what was said on the night or seen on the night and also what was spoken about later, the fact that you know she, it was the fact the door had, had slammed shut that drew her attention to something not being right in the room, you know when she went to check on the children.”

....

4078    “It’s all, you know, even at that early stage there wasn’t a lot more that you were able to say. Did you check the blind at Kate’s apartment on the window that obviously the relevant window? Did you go out and check the blind?”
Reply    “Oh the shutter?”

4078    “Yeah, sorry.”
Reply    “Yeah I mean I can remember going out there and in fact there was me and somebody else, I don’t know who else there was, to see if it could be raised from, from outside, I didn’t spend too long err trying it.”

4078    “And were you able to?”
Reply    “I think, I think I got it up so far but it became sort of err twisted. But everybody was in such a panic really.”

When the twins were brought to hers and the Paynes apartment after all the furore had died down they slept solidly - Dianne thought in a drug-induced sleep:

4078    ”Did you get any sleep that night?”
Reply    ”Err well eventually err the twins were brought up into our apartment err and that again to me was err a very odd thing because they were fast asleep, they did not wake up.”

4078    ”Were they brought up, so had they been taken out of their cots and brought up?”
Reply    ”Yeah, yeah. They were being carried, I think Fiona and Dave carried them up.”

4078    ”And they were still not awake?”
Reply    ”Still not awake, and the cots were, because they were travel cots they brought up, you know and err put in the living room and they were put into the cots and they just carried on sleeping.”

4078    ”In your experience, obviously you’ve had children yourself and you’ve got plenty of grandchildren, and am I to understand that Sean and Amelie stayed in your apartment for longer than that night?”
Reply    ”Err I can’t remember if they, no I think they just, just the one night, or two nights.”

4078    ”But with all your experience of small children, you thought that was odd that they had not woken?”
Reply    ”Oh yeah definitely. Well even err the noise that was going on in the apartment and they slept through it all.”

4078    ”Mm.”
Reply    ”They were taken from their cots when they were brought up to our apartment and they would have to come out into the cold and I would have err I would have expected some sort of awakening.”

....


4078    “And we’ve already been speaking this morning, obviously we’re talking about the holiday you had last year during which Madeleine MCCANN went missing and we’ve covered, we’ve done an hour and a half of talking this morning and you’ve told me as much as you can remember about the week. So just before we move on to asking the questions from the Portuguese, there are two things that I wanted to go back over with you, one thing was about the twins and how deeply they’d slept that night.”
Reply    “Mm.”

4078    “And you said you wondered if they’d perhaps been drugged.”
Reply    “Mm.”

4078    “I think it’s one of the questions that the MCCANN’S want us to ask anyway, but have you ever seen their children being given any medication?”
Reply    “Oh no, no.”

4078    “So how would you imagine that they may have been drugged?”
Reply    “Err by the abductor. I think Madeleine would have been drugged as well.”

4078    “Yeah, and the night when they were sleeping, did anybody try to wake them? Other than it being noisy and they were moved.”
Reply    “No, no I mean err when they, when they were brought up to our apartment err they had a sort of blanket over them and they were asleep on err I think it was David and Fiona that carried them up and they were just sleeping on their shoulder and obviously didn’t want to wake them up because the cots were being brought up and they were put, put, but you know my, my feeling is that they, I think a child normally would haven woken up under the circumstances.”

4078    “How were they when they woke up the following morning?”
Reply    “Oh fine, yeah.”

I get the district impression that it was important Dianne was present as a completely independent and innocent witness - perhaps to give credence to the non-involvement of the Tapas? Just a theory and my own musings.

On the question of DW and whether she knew anything. I think she was in the dark too, however since the event she must have put 2 and 2 together. The questionable airport footage which I think is manipulated shows her in the sequence. In my mind there is doubt as to where this was taken but she has never spoken up to correct it.
What is interesting is that in her statement the person conducting the interview says that the question about whether the twins were drugged or not was one of the McCanns` questions, so they were very anxious to have this seed planted.
I will re read all her statements to see if she claims to have ever set eyes on M.

On the subject of the airport she struggles to remember the time she flew! How do you fotrget this stuff given what was to happen one would have thought it etched on the brain
 
4078    ”How did you get over to Portugal?”
 Reply    ”Err we flew from err East Midlands err I travelled up to Leicester the day before we were due to leave and err Kate and Gerry, or Gerry, had organised mini bus, a mini bus or a couple of mini buses to transport us to East Midlands airport so err Fiona and Dave and I err drove to Kate and Gerry’s house, left, left the car at their house and then we all went in two mini buses to the airport. Err I’m trying to think, I think the flight was about nine thirty or something in the morning. Err I think the, the flight, I’m trying to think it was a, maybe a bit later in the evening I can’t quite remember but there was nothing untoward, you know, it was just a normal err journey there. Err when we arrived at you know at, in Portugal I think the other thing that Gerry had err booked, I don’t know whether he did it by phone or online, was a, err a mini bus to take us to the err resort where we were staying err and there was a bit of a