Daily Mail 24/10/2007

Another old "news item" from The Mail. Kate's mum claimed Kate said it is a disaster,which given that it was catastrophic or tragic I don't know if I would use the term disaster. It's interesting that the Mail use a tennis match to pour scorn on the parents. Clarence claims they have been searching hard but doesn't actually say that the game didn't take place.....

Gerry McCann 'played tennis days after Madeleine disappeared'
By VANESSA ALLEN
Last updated at 12:22 24 October 2007

Gerry McCann organised a game of tennis in the days after his daughter Madeleine disappeared, it has been claimed.
In an allegation likely to infuriate the McCanns, a waiter at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Laz said Gerry and Kate were 'very cool' after she vanished and seemed less upset than their friends
The waiter said: "What we found really strange was Gerry, days after the little girl disappeared, calmly playing tennis. He played with an old couple from England.
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"I thought that everybody else in the group seemed more upset and stressed and bothered than the parents.

"They were so cool about it. I never saw them cry or anything. They played tennis and went jogging. They didn't seem as distraught as their friends. If my kid disappeared I'd go insane. I wouldn't be able to function. They'd have to lock me away."
The claims come as the McCanns launch a new 24-hour phoneline manned by private detectives in a fresh bid to find their daughter.
Portuguese police have given Gerry and Kate their full backing in setting up the confidential number, according to the couple's spokesman, Clarence Mitchell.
It's also been reported Madeleine's hair and body fluids were found in the apartment of the first offical suspect in her disappearance, Robert Murat.
Portuguese newspaper 24 Horas said detectives are now sure she was in his apartment at some stage, but are not sure if she was dead or alive.
The waiter's description of the McCanns was in sharp contrast to one given by Mrs McCann's mother Susan Healy. She told of a hysterical telephone call home that Mr McCann made on the night Madeleine disappeared from their Portuguese holiday apartment.
"There's been a disaster, it's a disaster," he told his mother-in-law. "Madeleine has been abducted from her bed."
Madeleine's mother added: "She's gone mum, she's gone." Speaking for the first time about the emotional call, Mrs Healy said her son-in-law was so hysterical on the phone that she was unsure what he was saying.
"I thought he was talking about a car accident," she said. "It took me a while because he was hysterical. And then he just said 'Madeleine has been abducted from her bed'."
Speaking from their Liverpool home, Mrs Healy, 61, and her husband Brian described how they tried to comfort the McCanns. "I was able to say to her [Kate], 'We'll be able to get her back'," said Mrs Healy.
"I'm finding it harder to say that. But we're not going to acknowledge she's gone from our life altogether."
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Susan and Brian Healy
Mrs McCann's parents spoke about the call during an interview they gave on Spanish TV to try to refute claims that their daughter was involved in Madeleine's disappearance on May 3. Mrs Healy said that seeing Mrs McCann named as an official suspect was not as bad as the fear that Madeleine, four, could be dead.
Lawyers for the McCanns - who are both official suspects - will soon be allowed to see the police files on the case. Under Portugal's new penal code the secrecy laws covering the investigation will be lifted on November 14.
This morning the McCanns' official spokesman Clarence Mitchell dismissed reports that Mr McCann had "stunned" hotel staff by organising a game of tennis while the hunt for Madeleine was under way.
He told GMTV: "For nearly six months now, we have had this stream of unwarranted speculation, in many cases ill-informed rumour and downright misinterpretation of events.
"Kate and Gerry did nothing wrong in the immediate aftermath of Madeleine going missing. The only thing they did do was fight for their daughter's return and that is what they have continued to do ever since."
The McCanns, who are both 39-year-old doctors, are back home in Rothley, Leicestershire, with their two-year-old twins.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-489218/Gerry-McCann-played-tennis-days-Madeleine-disappeared.html

What's all this about Madeleine's hair and body fluid being found in Robert Murat's apartment? What apartment, I thought he lived with his mother in their house?

Anyone know any more about this allegation?

How is ones DNA collected and analysed in cases such as Madeleine's,I'm trying to understand the importance because of no body.
For instance hair and or blood found in 5a only containing DNA from Madeleine would only prove she was in 5a which is no surprise.
Hair in the hire car hired after she was reported missing  could be explained away but blood or bodily fluids would take some explaining even then it would not explain away what happened.Am I wrong in thinking that there was not a 100% match in the car if so if not then why should one be expected now.

Was it late last year or earlier this year that OG requested another look at the forensics,was this granted if so there does not seem to be any movement so nothing came of it,if not the do the PJ not trust SY with it.

Just say DNA from Madeleine was found in the car that would only prove that she was in there after the reported disappearance,still nothing on how she left 5a or what happened next.

So in essence what I'm trying to say is I think is,despite any forensics pointing in either direction will it all boil down to witness's,no reliable ones at the time,I think all statement's confused themselves and each other to the state they can never be unravelled.

Where if any where can and does a breakthrough lie.

Apart from providing  positive identification of remains, I feel DNA analysis will prove useless in solving the case.  
It is possible that traces of her DNA might be found in an area where she should never have been, but this is unlikely.
Similarly, 'foreign' DNA found in 5A would be almost impossible to link Madeleine, though traces found in proximity to any bodily remains might be a different matter.

Although police may know what happened, they will be fearful of speaking without  conclusive proof and I fear nothing short of a confession will ever bring about a resolution to the mystery of what happened to Madeleine McCann

froggy wrote:
Although police may know what happened, they will be fearful of speaking without  conclusive proof and I fear nothing short of a confession will ever bring about a resolution to the mystery of what happened to Madeleine McCann

I tend to be in agreement here,I see no point in interviewing the tapas lot unless any new evidence can be produced for a reason for any interviews.So I go back to the point of forensics,they may point one way or another but with out any reliable witness's its going nowhere.
In the not to distant future SY will say there is not enough evidence to continue,McCann will claim a victory in OG not finding they were involved in any way.

Walt wrote:

froggy wrote:
Although police may know what happened, they will be fearful of speaking without  conclusive proof and I fear nothing short of a confession will ever bring about a resolution to the mystery of what happened to Madeleine McCann

I tend to be in agreement here,I see no point in interviewing the tapas lot unless any new evidence can be produced for a reason for any interviews.So I go back to the point of forensics,they may point one way or another but with out any reliable witness's its going nowhere.
In the not to distant future SY will say there is not enough evidence to continue,McCann will claim a victory in OG not finding they were involved in any way.

If one was being cynical, one might say that this was the purpose all along.  Who could challenge the findings of a lengthy and expensive investigation by Britain's finest 'boys in blue'?

What will be interesting to see is if the McCanns shut TFU when they are finally 'exonerated'

Dee Coy wrote:What's all this about Madeleine's hair and body fluid being found in Robert Murat's apartment? What apartment, I thought he lived with his mother in their house?

Anyone know any more about this allegation?

Hair samples apparently belonging to Jane Tanner and Robert Murat were found in an apartment in Burgau Dee Coy, not sure if Robert Murat owned the apartment or if he did seasonal let's. I read this topic on CMoMM  a while ago, but to be honest I can't remember it all. Maybe someone could help with a link.

Wasn't it the halotypes that relate to a very broad and not specific genetic background? Found in kitchen of flat in Burgau I think?

Bampots wrote:Wasn't it the halotypes that relate to a very broad and not specific genetic background? Found in kitchen of flat in Burgau I think?

Yes Bampots, to be honest I didn't really understand it all.

So I go back to the point of forensics,they may point one way or another but with out any reliable witness's its going nowhere.

Agreed:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/news/287168/flaws-in-forensic-dna-lab-testing-discovered

Legal authorities in Texas have identified worrying errors in the way labs have been analyzing DNA.
DNA testing has long been regarded as a highly reliable forensic tool that has proven invaluable in countless criminal investigation cases - but just how easy is it for a mistake to be made ?

Officials at the Texas Forensic Science Commission recently discovered that labs had been producing inaccurate results by using outdated protocols when analyzing DNA samples.

In one case for example DNA recovered from a crime scene was deemed to have a million to one certainty of matching the suspect. When the same DNA test was conducted again with the new protocols however this changed to a probability of thirty to one - a very different result.

"We have to go back and identify which of those cases involved DNA mixtures where the lab may have given incorrect results," said Galveston district attorney Jack Roady. "It's going to be a herculean task, but we're gonna do it."

"The fact that this science may not have been done correctly in the past gives us great pause."

The issue appears to relate mainly to laboratories that have been using state-of-the-art testing kits to extract tiny traces of DNA from crime scenes. While this in itself is not a problem - many of these labs have been analyzing their findings using outdated methods that are not really suitable for obtaining accurate results from such 'weak' samples.

It isn't clear how many, if any, case outcomes may have been skewed by this issue but if even the chance of an erroneous conviction exists due to incorrect DNA results it does raise questions over whether the faith people maintain in DNA testing as a forensic tool is well founded.


Source: NPR.org | Comments (4

Even more worrying would be if someone was convicted on flawed dna evidence and subsequently put to death.

http://www.miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5022.msg178624#msg178624

I haven't time to read all this but it seems to be relevant here.

How strange, Freedom, I've just tracked down that very same site!

However, Madeleine's DNA and body fluids weren't found in the Burgau flat anyway, so this can't be the 'apartment belonging to Robert Murat' mentioned in the article.

As for the samples found which could relate to RM and JT, there was a fascinating thread on CMoMM by some knowledgable posters from a few years back:

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t5322-bizarre-comment-from-someone-in-the-pub

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-489408/Madeleines-DNA-Murats-house-police-claim.html

Right, mystery solved. Despite referring to the place as an apartment in the op article, it looks as if the Mail was indeed referring to the Murat house, Casa Liliana, according to this article linked here.

Dee Coy wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-489408/Madeleines-DNA-Murats-house-police-claim.html

Right, mystery solved. Despite referring to the place as an apartment in the op article,  it looks as if the Mail was indeed referring to the Murat house, Casa Liliana, according to this article linked here.

Does that fit in with Textusa suggesting that Madeleine was moved there first,apologies to Tex if I have that wrong.

Walt, I have transferred the posts from your DNA topic here as requested.

Thank you,hope bampots doesn't mind.

We have reference to DNA in different places,is everything confused including this, that can't be unfuddled,who was where,who shouldn't be there.

But saying that does it matter if Murat and Tanner were elsewhere? at another time?

Bampots wrote: Clarence claims they have been searching hard but doesn't actually say that the game didn't take place.....

There's alot he doesn't say.

Birch also said that the cadaver was first put at murats ,ofcourse we cant prove nor disprove much at all so far joyce1938

Yet the dogs didn't indicate at the Murat house?

Birch seemed to think that it was 2nd move ,I have no idea myself , I wonder if we shall be amazed what really happened to this tiny girl ,when and if we ever get to know truth one day. Its all been online it seems forever now and just as confusing as ever ,sad to say joyce1938

Walt wrote:

froggy wrote:
Although police may know what happened, they will be fearful of speaking without  conclusive proof and I fear nothing short of a confession will ever bring about a resolution to the mystery of what happened to Madeleine McCann

I tend to be in agreement here,I see no point in interviewing the tapas lot unless any new evidence can be produced for a reason for any interviews.So I go back to the point of forensics,they may point one way or another but with out any reliable witness's its going nowhere.
In the not to distant future SY will say there is not enough evidence to continue,McCann will claim a victory in OG not finding they were involved in any way.

Good grief, I would assume that by their own admission that they left 3 vulnerable children under 4 years old on their own without adult supervision is guilt and admitting to neglect when one went missing.  What sentence does that carry in Portugal.

I wonder how Madeleine would feel it she was able to come back one day and read some of the Tapas 9 statements and our posts - OK, love, don't worry, your Mum and Dad haven't been accused of anything endangering your life, they just carried on as normal, playing tennis, going jogging, you know the usual things that Mum and Dads do when their child has been "abducted".  Sorry what was that about searching for you??? Nah, they were too busy doing other things but neither of them have ever said what that actually was!

I fear collecting for the fund contacting Bell Pottinger and employing a media spokesclarence is what they thought was plenty "doing".