Coronavirus - and all manner of weird things evolving from it

I've plucked a few points from the ONS statistics in order to see the impact of the Coronavirus on the death rates. The statistics relate to the week ending Friday 20th March 2020 which is the day that Boris announced the pubs, gyms, restaurants etc were to be close.

* The provisional number of deaths registered in England and Wales in the week ending 20 March 2020 (week 12) was 10,645; this represents a decrease of 374 deaths registered compared with the previous week (week 11).

* The average number of deaths for the corresponding week over the previous five years was 10,573; this means that the overall number of deaths in week 12 of 2020 was slightly higher than previous years.

* Of the deaths registered in week 12, 103 mentioned novel coronavirus (COVID-19), which is 1.0% of all deaths.

* A total of 138,913 deaths were registered in England and Wales between 28 December 2019 and 20 March 2020 (year to date), and of these, 108 involved COVID-19 (0.1%); including deaths that occurred up to 20 March but were registered up to 25 March, the number involving COVID-19 was 210.

* If a death mentions COVID-19, it will not always be the main cause of death, it will sometimes be a contributary factor.



https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending20m

Some interesting comments (link below) on a thread over the way! The gravedigger comment .

When I need to drop off supplies to one of my elderly relatives I pass a very large crematorium. Unfortunately I've been to several funeral services here in the past year or so. They are scarily slick operations, as I am sure many people are aware. Rather like planes heading towards airports at intervals, the hearses line up a regular intervals. It's pretty much on the hour and if you linger a few moments longer over the flowers outside, you can see the next hearse lining up and the next set of grieving relatives arriving. Perish the thought that your deceased loved one's hearse is a few moments late and misses the slot - I'm not sure what happens in those instances? Perhaps like planes, the hearses have to circle around, held in a queue?

I cannot help but notice that things are eerily quiet outside and indeed inside the grounds of the crematorium which I find surprisingly inconsistent with the news that death rates are piling up. Rather like the ambulance activity in and around Kingston Hospital -very quiet and large numbers of ambulances parked up with bored-looking staff according to those living nearby.

My observations only.

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t16768p900-coronavirus-was-a-group-of-senior-freemasons-planning-this-back-in-2005

Antonia wrote:A young relative is a doctor in intensive care in a large Dublin hospital. He says he is busy as he was before the virus issue and fears they will run out of ICU beds. They have appealed for the Irish overseas with medical qualifications to return to help out but many have had problems getting flights back from Australia, NZ and Cananda and then face 14 day isolation before they can work.

I would expect him to be busier, though? This is why they introduced 'lock-down'. The lock-down will have the effect of reducing the instances of all infectious and community acquired illnesses, imo. However, there will be a time-lag in terms of results and of course, irrespective of Coronavirus, people will always get ill enough to need hospitalization and sometimes, sadly - even with the best intervention - will die.

Freedom wrote:I must admit that I'm wondering why or if some of the measures are necessary.

I think there was a 'worst case scenario' approach. Possibly some knee-jerk reactions. But I also believe that Bill Gates is itching to get out a vaccine. He's a man with a mission but I'm not convinced it's an especially philanthropic mission.

IMO!

I feel like I've tumbled into the world of Alice in Wonderland. I used to be a hack. I know that the MMM prints a load of old BS but where are we all going with this? My head really hurts. And on such a beautiful sunny spring day, we are not even allowed to look at beauty-spots but we have to listen to that dreadful droning voice telling us to stay at home. I have to turn off when I hear that doom-laden voice.

https://twitter.com/hashtag/hospitals?lang=en

I don't have a TV or radio - I think that's helping me to preserve what's left of my sanity!

Coming back from my walk along a nearly deserted normally busy road I spot two police cars on the other side of the road - a police car and a police van. I look over to see what is going on. A woman is sitting at the bus stop. Two male police officers are standing right in front of her. I can't hear what they are saying but she looks slightly dishevelled and a bit cowed. She is alone, no-one else is around apart from me walking on the other side of the road. As I watch I see a slight manhandling of this cowed, fairly frail looking woman who doesn't look like she would hurt a fly. My first impressions are that she could have a mental health illness, be depressed, be confused. All number of possibilities for a person who could be in distress for all sorts of reasons, not least this horrible situation. (Along with whatever other horrible situations people have to deal with the whole time.)

She is then quite roughly put into handcuffs. It is definitely done roughly.  I am shocked. I walk along very slowly feeling very fearful. In another situation I might cross the road to see what is going on but I dare not. Perhaps I'll be arrested for just - being there? I repeat, this woman is sitting meekly at a bus stop. Maybe she was tired and needed to sit down. Quite frankly, I feel scared. For her and also for me. I slow my walk to see where this is going to go and I see the police car driving off.  The police van has gone ahead. Is she in the police car? Since when has sitting at a bus stop been a crime?

I can only assume they were asking her where she was going and who she was? Maybe she didn't or couldn't reply. Maybe she didn't even know where she was going which is how I feel right now.

I am seriously appalled by this situation. What rights does this woman, all on her own, with no-one to stand up for her or support her, have? This is so NOT RIGHT. What is to stop some appalling abuses of power in this type of situation?

A beautiful Spring day has never left my blood running so cold.

ETA: The police officers are not wearing masks. They are standing within inches of her. Clearly not concerned about contracting Coronavirus, imo.

Freedom wrote:I don't have a TV or radio - I think that's helping me to preserve what's left of my sanity!

Very good. Not watching the news is an excellent idea. But I can't help but watch the police cars and vans circling around looking like vultures. A park used to be somewhere I visited with pleasure. I now feel like I am living in a totalitarian state worthy of Stalin.

I haven't yet had any unpleasant experiences like the one you witnessed but I am worried as to what could happen.

Freedom wrote:I haven't yet had any unpleasant experiences like the one you witnessed but I am worried as to what could happen.

Me too. Another thought occurred to me. We are all told to observe social distancing. Police are being very strict about people being out and about and spreading the virus.

What about the possibility of this woman (possibly depressed, mental health problems, all sorts of possibilities) contracting Coronavirus from the two police officers who were standing inches from her and, imo, handled her roughly as they put handcuffs on her? Who is to say that they couldn't have passed on Coronavirus to her? What rights does she have in this situation?

The Queen's message to the nation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52176222

Freedom wrote:The Queen's message to the nation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52176222

Very much needed! I think we are in need of some 'grounding' and I don't just mean literally being 'grounded' for being naughty disobedient sheeple either!

How about a little bit of light relief.

Has anyone else had their letter and leaflet from Downing Street about the crisis yet? Mine arrived today. The gist of it is sod off, stay at home and save the NHS. No surprise there then.

I take it that we all know about Boris.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52180223

Freedom wrote:Has anyone else had their letter and leaflet from Downing Street about the crisis yet? Mine arrived today. The gist of it is sod off, stay at home and save the NHS. No surprise there then.

I take it that we all know about Boris.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52180223

Which is the gist of what I wrote a fortnight ago.

Heisenburg wrote:The battle fields of Europe are graced with the graveyards of those that gave their all so that we may have tomorrow,wonder what they would make of a brit PM putting us virtually on house arrest.In reality it's because the f***ed up health service can't cope.

Ha! Remain indoors clip!  Boris is now in intensive care, or so we are being told by the media.

I wonder if the people treating him are in the full hazmat suits etc that we have seen on the media? Just curious, really. If so, it's a far cry from the VIP private health experience in hospitals which includes menu options, wine options etc.

I wonder if older people and people with symptoms of flu were told to stay at home to keep hospitals free for politicians and other supposedly 'VIP'  people?  

Boris may be in an NHS hospital but he will be getting the full VIP private treatment.

Heisenburg wrote:

Freedom wrote:Has anyone else had their letter and leaflet from Downing Street about the crisis yet? Mine arrived today. The gist of it is sod off, stay at home and save the NHS. No surprise there then.

I take it that we all know about Boris.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52180223

Which is the gist of what I wrote a fortnight ago.

Heisenburg wrote:The battle fields of Europe are graced with the graveyards of those that gave their all so that we may have tomorrow,wonder what they would make of a brit PM putting us virtually on house arrest.In reality it's because the f***ed up health service can't cope.

It's been done to 'save' the 'VIPs' like Boris etc plus the super-rich. There are private hospitals that are completely closed. The official (Aspen Healthcare, for instance) story is that they are 'saving the NHS' but I suspect they are making sure that beds are available in the event that politicians and other apparently very important (and rich) people need them.

IMO

ETA: I'm sure Bill Gates would be welcomed with opened arms. Given the full menu option with a choice of wines. I doubt a Hazmat suit in sight.

If corona is such a large problem, why does it not show up in the death statistics provided by the office for national statistics? The 5 year average percentage of deaths attributed to flu/pneumonia is 20%. This year, covid19 is added to that category, and 18% died listing that cause (for week ending 20th March).

So no excess deaths on a normal year.

For this, we have destroyed our economy; we have stopped treating cancer patients; we have destroyed the hopes and dreams of our teenagers. What teenager can now hope for an apprenticeship in September? When 20% of small businesses are expecting to fail within the next couple of weeks, and when training is the overhead that is easiest to cut?

The pensioners who rely on pensions on top of their state pensions will be hit; no dividends means no income to the pension fund, and it is likely some pension funds will fold, the liquidity requirements were never intended to survive a year of no dividends, which is currently being suggested.

I am seriously upset by constantly being told how heartless I am, wanting to kill babies and nurses, when I try to explain that our economy is us; if we make no money, we cannot afford the NHS; people will die because there is no giant money tree, and the NHS will be cut when the economy dies. (Cut, as in only getting the minimum increase due to inflation).

There is nothing that can keep a country running when there is nothing being produced ; the country cannot keep going with just teachers and nurses being allowed to work. How long before we are looking at the situation that Germany had in the 30s, where money loses value between morning and afternoon? How long before the riots starting in Italy happen here?

Rant over.

It is indeed a very scary, mumof6.

What I *think* they are/were very scared of is having the normal flu rates and other illnesses, accidents etc which tend to overwhelm the health services, especially during the winter months when flu epidemics occur. Then, on top of the normal flu rates/other diseases rates (or even on top of above average flu rates - as in winter 2017-2018) there will be all the Coronavirus patients. This is a new virus which we don't understand, had no immunity to  (although this will be rapidly changing) and don't have experience of treating.  It's a very steep learning curve. It is not known what the mortality rate is because there is not enough experience of the disease. Also, a lack of understanding of how to treat patients might contribute to a higher mortality rate than if the disease was better understood.

Therefore I assume that there was a fear that an extra surge of Coronavirus cases over and above flu cases (and other illnesses) would completely overwhelm the health care systems. By asking people with possible symptoms and those who might be susceptible - such as older people and those with underlying conditions - to stay at home, I imagine the idea is to dramatically reduce the spread of this and other types of flu.

This will have the effect of making beds free for those who can no longer stay at home and urgently need hospital treatment, especially treatment for this new virus.  I think some of the private hospitals, or private hospital wings, have been allocated for 'VIPs' or key workers who are essential to keeping the government going, the hospitals going and other key decision-makers.

I assume that the 'worst case scenario' would be that half of the medical profession plus decision-makers like politicians and other key figures and workers, would go down with the disease and then total chaos would descend upon society with hospitals leaving patients untreated, public policy in chaos as so many people are ill  and death-tolls rising.

I think the relatively early 'lock-down' will have prevented the worst-case scenarios. We had some kind of 'head-up' from other European countries such as Italy and Spain. The dramatic 'lock-downs'  will inevitably lead to a dramatic reduction in all types of infectious diseases such as any type of flu, in addition to Coronavirus.  To the extent that,  imo, we could even see a reduction in death rates for this winter, despite the Cornonavirus.

But, as you say mumof6, at huge cost to the economy, and to education and much more. I guess the alternative (people dying of infectious disease with no beds in hospitals and acute shortages of staff) could have been even worse. And lead to serious civil unrest.

That said, I think we should have could have been more prepared for a pandemic of some kind and I hope we can learn from this. I always used to snigger at the tourists over here wearing face masks, perhaps they had the right idea? Some cultures are far more fastidious about personal hygiene/street cleaning etc than others. Maybe we had become very complacent? My own personal experiences recently suggest that we had become very complacent indeed about 'germs'!  (We need to remember and learn from history - one of the reasons that historically there were so many deaths of babies and mothers giving birth was a lack of understanding of the importance of hygiene. This knowledge dramatically changed the statistics. )

The gist of the recorded messages over the tannoy on London Transport is sod off home if you're not a key worker which isn't too bad but the bit that annoys me is "stay home and save lives" which will make us grovelling wretches feel guilty for every death that happens. 

No it's not our naffing fault!

An infamous name from the past!

https://citizen.co.za/news/south-africa/crime/2266189/stephen-birch-released-on-warning-after-posting-fake-news-about-covid-19-testing-kits/

https://www.iol.co.za/capetimes/news/i-would-do-it-all-again-says-parow-man-after-appearing-in-court-over-fake-news-46425256

Freedom wrote:An infamous name from the past!

https://citizen.co.za/news/south-africa/crime/2266189/stephen-birch-released-on-warning-after-posting-fake-news-about-covid-19-testing-kits/

https://www.iol.co.za/capetimes/news/i-would-do-it-all-again-says-parow-man-after-appearing-in-court-over-fake-news-46425256

Interesting! I do believe that there is far more research that needs to be done around health concerns around electromagnetic fields.

https://www.jrseco.com/european-union-5g-appeal-scientists-warn-of-potential-serious-health-effects-of-5g/

Freedom wrote:The gist of the recorded messages over the tannoy on London Transport is sod off home if you're not a key worker which isn't too bad but the bit that annoys me is "stay home and save lives" which will make us grovelling wretches feel guilty for every death that happens. 

No it's not our naffing fault!

Indeed. But, sooner or later, 'herd immunity' will be reached, at which point the disease will naturally die out/lose its virulence. We might be quite near to that already, imo. But that won't stop  Bill Gates et al working on an apparently 'life-saving' vaccine to 'save the world'.

It's interesting that guilt has always been a driver for artificial immunity against disease - eg: vaccines: if you refuse one for yourself or your child you are being 'selfish' and putting everyone else at risk. But surely the whole point of a vaccine is to protect a person from the disease - hence the point of the vaccination?  

Decades ago, nearly everyone caught measles and nearly everyone got better. Measles was not known as a 'deadly' disease unless people had underlying conditions.

More recently, apparently in a drive to push the uptake of the MMR vaccine, measles has been claimed to be a very serious disease. It never used to be considered as such.

Why the change of tune?

ETA: One of my relatives worked as a GP for 35 years and never saw a case of measles where there were serious complications. Not one. Doesn't mean there weren't any. But they were rare.

While the media is preoccupied with THE Coronavirus crises, it’s a good time for governments to do things that really should be properly discussed beforehand.

I picked up (see link) that the Irish government has relaxed the rules for billionaire tax exiles regarding the no of days they can be in Ireland and not be liable for ANY tax.


https://www.thejournal.ie/tax-exiles-revenue-relaxation-catherine-murphy-5067420-Apr2020/

people everywhere are suffering financial loss due to the virus. Many have been laid off or lost their jobs altogether. Why do billionaires need support? In any case they could get on their private jets and get the hell out if they want to use the current favourable tax regime.

Have other governments done things like this that have been buried at the bottom of inside pages of newspapers?

Very good observation.


Have other governments done things like this that have been buried at the bottom of inside pages of newspapers?

Yes. More protection for the billionaires, as if they need it. The ones that didn't get out in time can rest assured that they STILL won't have to pay any tax.

A reliable source tells me that on some islands known as tax havens it's very much 'business as usual' with restaurants and bars open and all the usual social activities going on, e.g: boating, sailing, sunbathing, picnics on the beach, sun-downers on the beach and all the rest of it.

Thanks so much for this observation. What else is going to be slipped through while all the sheeple on lock-down are drip-fed Sky News 24/7 with hour-by-hour reports on Coronavirus death rates? The media coverage of the mass graves for poor people in New York was  a nice touch showing how the very poor finish up. I wonder if those images, along with the daily death rates, were broadcast on  those nice tropical tax haven islands?