Nick Ferrari radio phone in discusses police investigation

Live on air today at about 9 15 can't post a link maybe someone can find a listen again as I only heard the last 30seconds where someone spoke of cost of cancer treatment in relation to cost of investigation. Is this the only end game they can come up with after finding nothing to clear the parents?

Just been reading the comments of this phone in on CMoMM, it appears there may be some good news for Dr Amaral? Did anyone hear the phone in.

LBC Nick Ferrari 18.3.2015 Discussion on Mccann case this morning

There is no secret that so many public services are suffering, even reeling from budget cuts and that is particularly keenly felt among the police, 600 million worth of police cuts there. Meanwhile officers struggling to probe 14 unconnected killings across London since Christmas, fighting a war on terror, all the other aspects and pressures increasingly now crime figures including some senior officers, who declined to give their names, are pointing the finger at the team that are working exclusively on the hunt for Madeleine McCann, the girl who vanished around eight years ago from her parents holiday apartment in Portugal. I'm sure I don't need to remind you the details on that. though the actual story has no connection with London, four years ago the Met was assigned to get involved after Madeleine's parents Kate and Gerry made a personal plea to Prime Minister David Cameron. it's worth reminding you the girl did not live in London.

Now within the Met there is a degree of concern over budget cuts, well I'm sure that is probably true just about everywhere but some 31, 31 detectives involved in the Madeleine McCann case, do we know if they are getting any closer. It's called Operation Grange and its cost around 10 million pounds, 10 million pounds. Look I would be exceedingly happy if this afternoon what is known as the setting up producer phoned me up and said 'Nick you are not going to believe this' 'What' - They have found Madeleine McCann, she was living with a family in Algeria, the Met Police have swooped in, they have got her and she is on a plane coming back to London'. 'Fantastic, that is one of the greatest stories of the greatest stories'

But the reality is tragically we do not seem to be getting any closer so is it right with the pressure now 31 detectives, 10 million pounds, do we actually wind up the Madeleine McCann investigation.

Jim Murray is the Associate Editor of the Sunday Express, he's been tracking this story from day one, its worth pointing out that both he and the Sunday Express carried a number of exclusives on this story, joining me now.

You can understand the pressure that I would imagine Jim, which way do you think the Police might jump?

Jim - well I think it's all going to play out in the next few months. I cannot see any decision being made before the General Election because as you will know it was David Cameron who decided to start this Inquiry, he asked the Met to get involved, he is not suddenly going to go back on that with an Election coming up. He would look weak, he would look as if he hasn't made the right commitment to finding her, so I think something, there will be a serious rethink in June, time is running out for the Met in many ways, they pursued many angles over there and they have got a better relationship with the Portuguese but their theory that it was a group of burglars and the burglary went wrong and something happened to Madeleine during the burglary, not an intentional murder, something else, and she was taken away, but hopefully still alive, we don't know and that doesn't seem to have resulted in any real action. there was a meeting recently when Scotland Yard officers flew over to Portugal and they had another sit down with their Portuguese counterparts regarding four people, four Portuguese people but It doesn't seem to be getting anywhere so I think there will be, once the Election dust has settled there will be some serious questions.

Nick - Jim over the last, since Operation Grange has been going over the last few years have you learnt much of substance new.

Jim - erm, not especially, no, erm, the theory about the burglary was looked at very closely by Goncalo Amaral.

Nick - that was around at the time of the abduction, sorry the disappearance wasn't it, the possible abduction, I seem to recall that it was heard or discussed.

Jim - It had yes and they looked at that. what his team didn't do, and probably didn't have time to do, was get into all the multitude of phone records they had for everyone so the Yard has brought in its expertise to analyse phone calls and its put people in certain positions, rough positions making calls at certain times or which could suggest they were acting together in concert to commit crime, erm, alternatively it could mean they were acting together to go and have a beer, you know...

Nick - Yes sure I hear what you're saying. Jim you are Associate Editor of the Sunday Express, you have been tracking this story almost from day one, thank you for that.

David Hughes is a former media adviser to the McCann family in the months after Madeleine went missing, he joins me now.

There will be pressure undoubtedly as the journalist was explaining there which way do you think the Met should jump Mr. Hughes, morning.

David - Well I think the decision they have got to make is assess what sort of progress they are making and it is the story this morning in the Press from the Met Police has actually not come from the Police itself but from the Police Federation and I think the giveaway is the opening sentence about officers reeling from cuts. My understanding is that even though there have been cuts in recent years the actual level of crime across the UK has gone down, obviously there might be a spike in London at the moment but I do think we should leave the Police to make these decisions on an operational basis in the light of the progress they are making and as Jim Murray has just said there are leads they are following, new bits of information do come through and I would have thought an assessment of how valuable those leads and new bits of information are should be the main determinant of how they proceed.

Nick - Yes there doesn't seem to be any bombshell piece of evidence that the journalist was saying pretty much the theories that have been looked at in more detail were around, all they've had time to do is look at a lot of phone records, that's 31 detectives spending a lot of time doing that one might argue Mr. Hughes.

David - erm yes I can see that, actually I will pick up on the word bombshell because ironically what we do know from other parts of the world is that when some of these cases are solved, often quite a substantial period of time it is a bombshell event, some discovery of someone who has been detained in a house for many years such as the case we had in Ohio a few years ago so often it is a single breakthrough that then ends the mystery. the one thing I would say I do have a certain amount of sympathy to them in this discussion is I do find it surprising that the Met Police is having to bear the whole burden and I think you slightly alluded to this in your introduction. Certainly when I was involved at the beginning one of the main liaison points in the UK were Leicestershire Police who covered the area that Madeleine and her parents come from and I think at the time that was quite a productive input so I am quite surprised that the whole burden is just being put on the Met Police covering London.

Nick - last year 140,000 youngsters went missing in and around Britain. I have to say the vast majority turn up, they have fights, they have spats, they are found at friends, but sadly each year some never turn up, why all this focus on Madeleine McCann?

David - Well I think in many ways it is a consequence of the effectiveness of the effort which Madeleine's parents put in at the beginning of the campaign as it were to draw the issue to the public attention. We all know there was absolutely vast media coverage not just in the UK but in effect globally to this issues, er and this particular situation and I think you would expect any parents in that position to do everything they can to highlight the plights of their missing child and Kate and Gerry were particularly affective in doing that.

Nick - I am sure you helped them at the time David Hughes, you are the former media adviser to the McCann's in the weeks and months after Madeleine went missing, so there are in a way two sides of the argument, it's a lot of money 10 million pounds spent so far and sadly it would appear not much further forward. time to fold wrap up the Madeleine McCann team, your views follow this.

600 million pounds worth of cuts, a murder team probing eleven unsolved murders across London in recent months, 31 detectives, now 31 detectives involved looking for Madeleine McCann. Thomas is in Glasgow, and after the election, nothing will happen beforehand, should it be folded up this team?

Thomas - morning Nick, it's not so much the team should be folded up its the whole expense involved of subsiding the McCann family.. You just spoke to the McCann's media adviser..

Nick - former adviser

Thomas - yep former adviser, that was something that I didn't know they had, they also have Clarence Mitchell the McCann family spokesman, who has been paid for eight years at whose expense and

Nick - I don't know that he's still with them and I'm not sure of the funding strategy but go on with the point you want to make.

Thomas - and he is still quoted from time to time and he is still quoted as the family spokesman so presumably he's not doing it for charity but the exorbitant expense, I am just wondering did Ben Needham's mother have a media adviser, did Ben Needham's mother have a family spokesman and also I remember when Gordon Brown went to Portugal sometime after Madeleine McCann went missing the first thing he asked, the Portuguese Prime Minister was an update on the McCanns, why his interest, Cameron is now asking about the McCanns so many people as you said yourself, how many hundreds of thousands.....

Nick - 14,000 most of whom turn up safe but not all obviously.

Thomas - not all but no other family has the same expense spent on them media spokesman, family spokesman, and again...

Nick - just because the McCanns are better organised, possibly better funded we shouldn't necessarily judge against them for that.

Thomas - From the Police point of view, as a former police officer, the Police Service carries out its job without fear or favour, that's regardless how well organised and how well publicised the McCanns are, the Police should divorce themselves from that aspect and should offer every family the same expense to find the child ultimately until the child is found or you know eight years later poor Madeleine is still not found and again I would also go down the lines of had it been someone from a Council estate, single mum possibly the other twins would have been taken into care because of the neglect aspect.

Nick - Not the first time I have heard that Thomas thank you.


Simon from Taunton said - how much for hunting for Madeleine McCann. While her abduction is tragic for her family whatever crimes occurred did not occur within British jurisdiction, the Portuguese Police should be dealing and paying for this. If the McCanns are not happy with their efforts they are at liberty to hire an investigator themselves. At the risk of sounding unfeeling let's not forget this could be seen to have arisen out of the parents negligence.

Johnnie says the 10 million pounds cost of trying to find Madeleine is misleading because its largely the salaries of the Police who are employed by the Met and they would have been paid in any event. However I think 10 million pounds is better spent than spending 6 million pounds keeping Julian Assagne in London .

good point there but we do highlight that regularly on LBC as well its not like we look the other way. We regularly feature that and I know what you are saying they would be paid the salaries anyway but may be they would be hunting down these, 11, or I think its actually 14 killings, unconnected killings in London or involved in the fight against terror rather than spending all day long looking at what happened in Portugal eight years ago. Harjeet is in Southall You are on the radio Harjeet.

Harjeet - good morning, I think you know all children are equal, everybody's children are equal. God gives them and God takes them away, for one child 10 million pounds is too much and at one stage I did see Madeleine's mum turn to her faith that she took the Pope's blessing and everything, in these cases I think it's best to turn to your faith.

Nick- I would never knock your faith but it's not going to find the child is it.

Harjeet - No no, but the NHS over here could benefit from this 10 million pounds because my local hospital is suffering a lot of cuts, lots of cuts and even GP appointment you have to prebook for two weeks, you can't get them.

Nick - just saying that because of the state of the NHS it could be seen to be a little unfair do you think lastly Harjeet

Harjeet - you know people are dying, young children with cancer for cancer treatment so for one child 10 million is a lot isn't it. And when you go abroad you have to hold onto your child, I am not blaming them, sorry about that.

Nick - no no I know you are not, I'm sure, well no-one would reproach themselves I am sure as much as the McCanns do but thanks for all of that.

Good work Cherry.

I must admit. I have not heard of that David Hughes chap before..

Thanks Cherry.

Did I really read this ?!! I did !!

Jim - It had yes and they looked at that. what his team didn't do, and probably didn't have time to do, was get into all the multitude of phone records they had for everyone so the Yard has brought in its expertise to analyse phone calls and its put people in certain positions, rough positions making calls at certain times or which could suggest they were acting together in concert to commit crime, erm, alternatively it could mean they were acting together to go and have a beer, you know...

Here is David Hughes denying the McCanns will use fund money for legal costs. Tsk tsk.

And here he is playing the strong silent type when GM was declared arguido. From 1.07 mins in.

I'm sure his nose was growing in that first video.

He didn't last long as a 'spokesperson' then.

Wonder why?

So, Jim hasn't learnt anything new from OG and GA had already looked closely at a burglary anyway?
And Nick mentions the abduction but quickly changes it to disappearance?
Oh how things are changing me thinks!

dogs don't lie wrote:So, Jim hasn't learnt anything new from OG and GA had already looked closely at a burglary anyway?
And Nick mentions the abduction but quickly changes it to disappearance?
Oh how things are changing me thinks!

Why do you think it is that many commentators/newspaper reports are now changing the word "abduction" into "disappearance", this is a genuine question by the way.  Do you feel that the support for the McCanns has now dwindled to an all time low or because the SY remit has now turned into a "murder" investigation and the media feel they can now be more open about what they say.

Or is it perhaps that the media know more than we do but have been told to keep everything to themselves until the PJ/SY go in for the kill?

Maybe that's asking too much of the media, or maybe not as they have held back many stories on murder suspects in the past when being asked to by the investigating police.

Don't Forget Madeleine wrote:

dogs don't lie wrote:So, Jim hasn't learnt anything new from OG and GA had already looked closely at a burglary anyway?
And Nick mentions the abduction but quickly changes it to disappearance?
Oh how things are changing me thinks!

Why do you think it is that many commentators/newspaper reports are now changing the word "abduction" into "disappearance", this is a genuine question by the way.  Do you feel that the support for the McCanns has now dwindled to an all time low or because the SY remit has now turned into a "murder" investigation and the media feel they can now be more open about what they say.

Or is it perhaps that the media know more than we do but have been told to keep everything to themselves until the PJ/SY go in for the kill?

Maybe that's asking too much of the media, or maybe not as they have held back many stories on murder suspects in the past when being asked to by the investigating police.

I myself think its because after nearly 8yrs there's not any evidence of a break in nor abduction, the man they are after is a man seen by the Smith family, he's a ringer for GM and Martin has said hes 60/80% sure he was the man seen. At the start, maybe not a lot of the UK had trust in Portugal, but now even the elite met still have not found proof of a break in nor given any reason as to why the mcs and friends are not on their radar. The truth will come out one day soon, hopefully.
IMO

There does seem to be a lot of things happening right now and I for one don't think it is by coincidence.

Clay - what do you know of this Hughes character? You seem to be saying over in another place that there were some shenanigans when he was appointed as media advisor? Are you able to fill us in?  

dogs don't lie wrote:

Don't Forget Madeleine wrote:

dogs don't lie wrote:So, Jim hasn't learnt anything new from OG and GA had already looked closely at a burglary anyway?
And Nick mentions the abduction but quickly changes it to disappearance?
Oh how things are changing me thinks!

Why do you think it is that many commentators/newspaper reports are now changing the word "abduction" into "disappearance", this is a genuine question by the way.  Do you feel that the support for the McCanns has now dwindled to an all time low or because the SY remit has now turned into a "murder" investigation and the media feel they can now be more open about what they say.

Or is it perhaps that the media know more than we do but have been told to keep everything to themselves until the PJ/SY go in for the kill?

Maybe that's asking too much of the media, or maybe not as they have held back many stories on murder suspects in the past when being asked to by the investigating police.

I myself think its because after nearly 8yrs there's not any evidence of a break in nor abduction, the man they are after is a man seen by the Smith family, he's a ringer for GM and Martin has said hes 60/80% sure he was the man seen. At the start, maybe not a lot of the UK had trust in Portugal, but now even the elite met still have not found proof of a break in nor given any reason as to why the mcs and friends are not on their radar. The truth will come out one day soon, hopefully.
IMO

Thanks for your reply. It's interesting to get other opinions as to what is going on as after 7 plus years of having "abduction, abduction, abduction" rammed down our throats it's now "disappearance, disappearance, disappearance" in all the news reports, I was wondering if I'd missed something inbetween.

If GA wins the forthcoming case it will be interesting to see how many so-called "journalists" will be grovelling to apologise to him for all the disgusting things he's been called, yes, Parsons, I include you.

Dee Coy wrote:Clay - what do you know of this Hughes character? You seem to be saying over in another place that there were some shenanigans when he was appointed as media advisor? Are you able to fill us in?  

Well I don't know anything. I just thought it odd, the tone that he took with Miliband, of all people, and the fact that he chose to do it in his own backyard. Something about that piece just struck me as.... off, I suppose, even by the standards of media involvement in this case.

There is also some confusion about whether his relationship with the McCanns was pre-exisiting; he is sometimes described as an adviser, and sometimes as a family friend. There was some properly weird stuff going down in those early days as I think Tigger has so brilliantly pinpointed.

Don't Forget Madeleine wrote:
If GA wins the forthcoming case it will be interesting to see how many so-called "journalists" will be grovelling to apologise to him for all the disgusting things he's been called, yes, Parsons, I include you.

Tony Parsons? A pitiable excuse for a human being.

From parsnips wiki:

In 2007, Parsons wrote a series of articles about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann from a beach in the Algarve in Portugal, in the Daily Mail. The tone with which these articles were written was later described as having a "touch of arrogant xenophobia" by The Guardian '​s Marcel Berlins.[5] The Press Complaints Commission that year received 485 complaints, a huge increase in the number of complaints in comparison to previous years, his article on the McCann affair receiving the most complaints.[6][7] In an article for the Daily Mirror in 2007, entitled "Oh Up Yours Senor", he said of Portugal's ambassador to Britain, Senhor António Santana Carlos, "And I would respectfully suggest that in future, if you can't say something constructive about the disappearance of little Madeleine, then you just keep your stupid, sardine-munching mouth shut".

This was one of Parsons articles referred to

Daily Mirror 19.10.07

Oh, up yours, señor
Tony Parsons

Portugal's ambassador to Britain, Senor Antonio Santana Carlos, says that the Madeleine McCann case has seriously damaged relations between the two countries. Well, whose fault is that?

It is the fault of the spectacularly stupid, cruel Portuguese police. I have never much cared for the convention of calling cops "pigs" or "filth", but I am happy to make an exception.

They have tried to cover their humiliation at coming nowhere close to finding that stolen child by fitting up her parents.

The decline in relations is also the fault of the appalling Portuguese media, happy to print any piece of poisonous trash spoon-fed to them by "police sources" treating the abduction of a small child as light entertainment.

And the Portuguese public must also take their share of the blame. The sight of locals jeering at Kate McCann as she went in for questioning made me feel as though these leering bumpkins were not from another country, but another planet.

And the good ambassador can also be blamed for the decline in relations.

When he should be exercising a little diplomacy, he huffs and he puffs about the McCanns' tragic decision to leave their children sleeping alone on the night Madeleine was stolen.

"In Portugal we have the concept of a nuclear family," sniffs Senor Carlos. "That the families all live together."

They made a mistake, ambassador. Their lives have been wrecked. That is punishment enough, without your asinine, unwanted comments.

And I would respectfully suggest that in future, if you can't say something constructive about the disappearance of little Madeleine, then you just keep your stupid, sardine-munching mouth shut.