Re: Goncalo Interview on Portugal TV 23.04.16

Andrew Tue 26 Apr 2016, 10:54 am

Mo wrote:I'm wondering if a statement by Mrs Fenn has been held back as I haven't seen this before: This was the visit by DP to the McCann's apt.

One thing seems certain; the (McCanns’) first floor neighbour, Pamela Fenn, saw David Payne, around 19:00 hours, on the McCanns’ balcony.

Yes, noticed that as well. Certainly can't recall hearing about that before.

The Jane Tanner seeing 'someone' at 21 - 21:05 bit as well. Always thought it was bang on 21:15 that she saw 'someone'...

dogs don't lie Tue 26 Apr 2016, 10:56 am

So that means DP went to the apartment at 6:30, stayed that half hour (KM says 30sec), joined by FP who said (I think?) both mcs there also?

chirpyinsect Tue 26 Apr 2016, 10:57 am

Mo wrote:I'm wondering if a statement by Mrs Fenn has been held back as I haven't seen this before: This was the visit by DP to the McCann's apt.

One thing seems certain; the (McCanns’) first floor neighbour, Pamela Fenn, saw David Payne, around 19:00 hours, on the McCanns’ balcony.

Candyfloss I think posted a photo some time ago of Mrs F on her balcony which to me looked as though it wouldn't be possible to see over the tiles to the balcony down below. We discussed it in terms of her seeing them on the night just after the alarm but thought she maybe saw them in the garden. This clearly states she saw DP around 7pm on the balcony

Mo Tue 26 Apr 2016, 11:05 am

I think KM said 30 secs DDL

Yes Andrew it was 21:15. GM left the table at 21:00 looked at his children had ihis moment, went to the loo and then went outside and spoke to JW. I'm sure JT didn't leave the table while 9:15?

Another bit mentioned was the OVAL table next to the pool - not round then. IIRC Textusa has always maintained there wasn't a table big enough to seat them all. So that theory can be debunked - the PJ must have seen the table.

joyce1938 Tue 26 Apr 2016, 11:05 am

We have really only been able to go by what they all told ,times etc etc . . It seems we have been chasing our tails over some of the stuff they all gave out for when they did this or that. I bet they have had good laugh at times eh ? yes we did best we could ,but there did seem to be some stuff not correct. Mr Amaral has definate times by look of it , and at least half hour later then we have been let belive eh ?? But we still could see something stank in all their timings eh ? I just hope this is not about to be shelved for ever now ? Will all need to think carefully re cremation ,makes me feel sick just the thought of it . joyce1938

Mo Tue 26 Apr 2016, 11:10 am

I remember seeing the picture of Mrs Fenn on the balcony, but wasn't there an area outside of the Mc's bedroom where there was no tiles over it?? I'm sure I've seen a picture recently taken side on of all the apt's I'll have a look.

Mo Tue 26 Apr 2016, 11:17 am

I am sure Joice we are not the only ones chasing our tails I think the police do this on a daily basis until they can safely debunk info. I think many members on the forums have done so well researching all the information and putting bits and pieces together. I haven't even read all the case files so admire those people who present what is to me new information.

costello Tue 26 Apr 2016, 11:31 am

gbwales wrote:
Days later, the police find among Kate’s papers a manuscript (draft) with the hours of the rounds (checking) written on it – except, this differed from the one her friend Russell gave to the PJ.

To me, at least, this is really interesting.
This third timeline is not something I believe we have heard of before - and is not something documented in the PJ files as far as I am aware.
Nor is it something that appears to be discussed with KM in any interviews with the police.
The fact that it is mentioned so clearly here is quite striking given its previous non-visibility.
I wonder how badly it contradicts the other timelines, and also whether it contradicts Kate's own various accounts.
Certainly its very existence seems yet another suspicious jigsaw piece.

I'm sure I have read 'tweets' that inferred the timeline was actually earlier than stated.
Will have a look again, might take a while though.

Dee Coy Tue 26 Apr 2016, 11:45 am

chirpyinsect wrote:
gbwales wrote:
Days later, the police find among Kate’s papers a manuscript (draft) with the hours of the rounds (checking) written on it – except, this differed from the one her friend Russell gave to the PJ.

To me, at least, this is really interesting.
This third timeline is not something I believe we have heard of before - and is not something documented in the PJ files as far as I am aware.
Nor is it something that appears to be discussed with KM in any interviews with the police.
The fact that it is mentioned so clearly here is quite striking given its previous non-visibility.
I wonder how badly it contradicts the other timelines, and also whether it contradicts Kate's own various accounts.
Certainly its very existence seems yet another suspicious jigsaw piece.

Is it def a 3rd timeline? It couldn't be the other version of the sticker book timeline which we always thought was handed over that night.

That's what I'm wondering. But the files clearly state that 2 timelines written by ROB were collected by the GNR between 12.30 and 1.00am that night:

Estimated time between 00.30 and 1.00 am Two timelines written by Russel O'Brien on the covers ripped off Madeleine's stickerbook are provided to the GNR officers.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_INFORMATION.htm

Having said that, I've always thought the 2 timelines looked like they'd been written by 2 different hands.

chirpyinsect Tue 26 Apr 2016, 11:53 am

Mo wrote:I remember seeing the picture of Mrs Fenn on the balcony, but wasn't there an area outside of the Mc's bedroom where there was no tiles over it?? I'm sure I've seen a picture recently taken side on of all the apt's I'll have a look.

I'd appreciate that Mo. Bit busy today.

Andrew Tue 26 Apr 2016, 11:56 am

chirpyinsect wrote:
Mo wrote:I remember seeing the picture of Mrs Fenn on the balcony, but wasn't there an area outside of the Mc's bedroom where there was no tiles over it?? I'm sure I've seen a picture recently taken side on of all the apt's I'll have a look.

I'd appreciate that Mo. Bit busy today.

Goncalo Interview on Portugal TV 23.04.16 - Page 4 Pic_1210

chirpyinsect Tue 26 Apr 2016, 11:56 am

Dee Coy wrote:
chirpyinsect wrote:
gbwales wrote:
Days later, the police find among Kate’s papers a manuscript (draft) with the hours of the rounds (checking) written on it – except, this differed from the one her friend Russell gave to the PJ.

To me, at least, this is really interesting.
This third timeline is not something I believe we have heard of before - and is not something documented in the PJ files as far as I am aware.
Nor is it something that appears to be discussed with KM in any interviews with the police.
The fact that it is mentioned so clearly here is quite striking given its previous non-visibility.
I wonder how badly it contradicts the other timelines, and also whether it contradicts Kate's own various accounts.
Certainly its very existence seems yet another suspicious jigsaw piece.

Is it def a 3rd timeline? It couldn't be the other version of the sticker book timeline which we always thought was handed over that night.

That's what I'm wondering. But the files clearly state that 2 timelines written by ROB were collected by the GNR between 12.30 and 1.00am that night:

Estimated time between 00.30 and 1.00 am Two timelines written by Russel O'Brien on the covers ripped off Madeleine's stickerbook are provided to the GNR officers.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_INFORMATION.htm

Having said that, I've always thought the 2 timelines looked like they'd been written by 2 different hands.

Thanks Dee. I thought that might be the case but just wanted clarification. So a 3rd timeline eh? Practice run perhaps. I wonder when that was written.

chirpyinsect Tue 26 Apr 2016, 12:00 pm

Found this one. You are correct Mo. I wonder if she saw DP outside the bedroom window?

Goncalo Interview on Portugal TV 23.04.16 - Page 4 Oc410

**candyfloss** Tue 26 Apr 2016, 12:01 pm

Andrew wrote:
chirpyinsect wrote:
Mo wrote:I remember seeing the picture of Mrs Fenn on the balcony, but wasn't there an area outside of the Mc's bedroom where there was no tiles over it?? I'm sure I've seen a picture recently taken side on of all the apt's I'll have a look.

I'd appreciate that Mo. Bit busy today.

Goncalo Interview on Portugal TV 23.04.16 - Page 4 Th?&id=OIP.M75f3bfd974f1a5862178e46af38c3255o0&w=300&h=154&c=0&pid=1

Goncalo Interview on Portugal TV 23.04.16 - Page 4 Th?&id=OIP.M0d38a28c69a7529783a9e28b7a3ae58ao0&w=193&h=205&c=0&pid=1

Goncalo Interview on Portugal TV 23.04.16 - Page 4 Th?&id=OIP.M1cfda300b27fefbd0e53f9bc120f3459o0&w=283&h=299&c=0&pid=1

Goncalo Interview on Portugal TV 23.04.16 - Page 4 Th?&id=OIP.M5961f11856eb13656b9e929252027c01o0&w=300&h=187&c=0&pid=1

joyce1938 Tue 26 Apr 2016, 12:12 pm

Hi Mo, thanks for your reply . I understand what you are saying ,yes we have all tried hard to understand ,and so many have been good at going into things in a big way ,and given us more to think about,which i have been glad to read and think. Pity that some got knickers in a twist ,and unfortunatly ,left . I also know that mr Amaral did make it clear when someone asked him ,were all the case files released? he said NO some had been held back . Thats why he seems to have more info now to release that we were not able to use for sure,made working out times etc ,hard to be sure of for us ,but thats fine ,got to be carefull as some might need to be used in a courtroom .regards joyce1938

Mo Tue 26 Apr 2016, 12:14 pm

IIRC the Mac's bedroom window was a patio door so DP could have just stepped out of the bedroom. I can't imagine him leaving through the main patio doors and turning right to stand outside of the bedroom (unless he was looking out over the pool for someone).

Andrew Tue 26 Apr 2016, 12:37 pm

Mo wrote:IIRC the Mac's bedroom window was a patio door so DP could have just stepped out of the bedroom. I can't imagine him leaving through the main patio doors and turning right to stand outside of the bedroom (unless he was looking out over the pool for someone).

I think the only way Mrs Fenn would have really good look at DP, would be if he was stood where indicated in the below.....

Goncalo Interview on Portugal TV 23.04.16 - Page 4 Pic_f10

**candyfloss** Tue 26 Apr 2016, 12:40 pm

Andrew wrote:
Mo wrote:IIRC the Mac's bedroom window was a patio door so DP could have just stepped out of the bedroom. I can't imagine him leaving through the main patio doors and turning right to stand outside of the bedroom (unless he was looking out over the pool for someone).

I think the only way Mrs Fenn would have really good look at DP, would be if he was stood where indicated in the below.....

I think she could easily see from that walkway on her balcony, and although she would have to lean over a little, she could I think clearly see the stairs and the area just above them.

Andrew Tue 26 Apr 2016, 12:53 pm

candyfloss wrote:
Andrew wrote:
Mo wrote:IIRC the Mac's bedroom window was a patio door so DP could have just stepped out of the bedroom. I can't imagine him leaving through the main patio doors and turning right to stand outside of the bedroom (unless he was looking out over the pool for someone).

I think the only way Mrs Fenn would have really good look at DP, would be if he was stood where indicated in the below.....

I think she could easily see from that walkway on her balcony, and although she would have to lean over a little, she could I think clearly see the stairs and the area just above them.

Yes, see what you mean.

Goncalo Interview on Portugal TV 23.04.16 - Page 4 F110

chirpyinsect Tue 26 Apr 2016, 1:51 pm

If DP was standing just outside the living room approx where the washing stand is, I doubt Mrs Fenn would have seen him as it is recessed. From her walkway she could have seen him outside the bedroom.

Mo Tue 26 Apr 2016, 2:28 pm

I thought at first you could just walk along to the bedroom window but you can't. To access the area outside of the bedroom DP would have gone through the patio door inside of the bedroom in order for Mrs Fenn to see him on the bedroom balcony.

**candyfloss** Tue 26 Apr 2016, 2:38 pm

How do we know where Mrs Fenn was anyway, she may have popped out to the supermarket or something and seen him then? I don't think she would lie anyway, we have been through all that, and I certainly don't believe Goncalo would.

dogs don't lie Tue 26 Apr 2016, 2:53 pm

No, we don't know where Mrs Fenn was standing, but with that statement not being released, IMO, Mrs Fenn was telling the truth and did see DP at the mcs apartment at 7 that evening. Big difference between 30secs and 30mins.
Do you have to enter the patio doors, go through the sitting room, through the parents bedroom and then out those doors?

Andrew Tue 26 Apr 2016, 2:55 pm

candyfloss wrote:How do we know where Mrs Fenn was anyway, she may have popped out to the supermarket or something and seen him then? I don't think she would lie anyway, we have been through all that, and I certainly don't believe Goncalo would.

No, absolutely. I don't think she was lying at all. Or GA for that matter. No chance.

Earlier I was just trying to work out where she saw him, but as you say, it could of been anywhere around that small vicinity. (or at the front, can't recall what it looks like round the other side).

Anyway - still another half hour's worth of translations according to Joana. Looking forward to it.

dogs don't lie Tue 26 Apr 2016, 2:57 pm

Wonder what else will come out?

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