The murder of Grace Millane

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The murder of Grace Millane Empty The Grace Case...

Post  Rosa canina on Tue 11 Dec 2018, 9:57 pm

The alleged murder of backpacker Grace Millane is all over the news here :

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/109268774/grace-millane-first-vigil-for-slain-backpacker-in-tourist-hotspot

The murder of Grace Millane 1544564248856

The above picture is from her home town in Wickford, Essex.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/109277418/grace-millanes-family-attend-blessing-at-site-where-her-body-was-found

We've had our Prime Minister weeping, the Sky Tower lit up and now vigils -

- for now I'm putting it down to another case of Missing White Woman Syndrome.

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Post  Freedom on Tue 11 Dec 2018, 10:05 pm

I've been reading about this case.

Is there as much interest for native kiwis? I'm sure that sadly this isn't a totally isolated incident.
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The murder of Grace Millane Empty GM, MM, mmm...

Post  Rosa canina on Tue 11 Dec 2018, 11:34 pm

I'm really not getting the 'waves of trauma' over a Tinder date turning to murder :

The murder of Grace Millane <a href=The murder of Grace Millane Gfkutdfytkufgulyfgyfvhtgfrsdtes33eedddcvfgv_zpsn7ttnu4q

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/10-12-2018/heres-where-to-channel-the-hurt-and-rage-for-grace-millane/

(unreal...)

The murder of Grace Millane <a href=The murder of Grace Millane Chgfkhtdfykhcykhtgftykhgftykhgfhtngfty999jjnmkjhhh_zpsckf5arn8

Dodgy-looking character, I can't see a young English lady finding that moustache attractive.

https://www.habaritimes.online/2018/12/11/how-creep-26-accused-of-killing-british-backpacker-grace-millane-22-was-obsessed-with-women/

Massive media coverage and domestic violence charities/feminism tie-in plus some strange numerology -

- it's all a bit odd to me.

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Post  Freedom on Wed 12 Dec 2018, 1:05 am

Weird indeed. It's a dreadful event of course but it's sadly not unique. 

It's strange how some cases get such blanket coverage and others don't. I'm not thinking particularly of the McCanns for once - two cases in the U K in recent years come to mind: two missing youngsters Tia Sharpe and Rebecca Watts received massive coverage from day one even when they just seemed like a hundred and one other cases.

I see that the media in New Zealand have things to learn about not prejudicing public opinion against the alleged killer - describing him as an obsessed creep.
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The murder of Grace Millane Empty More similarities...

Post  Rosa canina on Wed 12 Dec 2018, 9:21 am

The murder of Grace Millane <a href=The murder of Grace Millane Capturegheirlfygabwelicfbiwebchiksgbzhcbwdwdwdfw_zpsuqatytng

Nothing sets the scene like a wretched obelisk.

Howick is where our friend Mrs Kate apparently lived as a young doctor, it's deepest suburbia.

Damian Light would seem to be this guy's actual name, he is/was a politician of some sort.


https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/whats-on/entertainment/109267818/Grace-Millane-TVNZ-murder-series-postponed-due-to-similarities-to-British-backpackers-case (echoes of Ben Affleck's Gone Baby Gone postponement)

https://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/109287048/taranaki-farmer-convicted-of-stabbing-asks-that-reparation-go-to-millane-family

$1000 from a Black Power gangster is going to the English Millane family?

Eh what?

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Post  Freedom on Wed 12 Dec 2018, 11:53 am

Odder and odder.

I can't think of a comparable case in the U K involving a foreign national.
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Post  Rosa canina on Thu 13 Dec 2018, 11:19 pm

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/109348799/grace-millane-trial-of-accused-murderer-could-be-threatened

Our name suppression laws (he's still not named in local media) vs Google and social media -

yet oddly enough this suspect posted on the victim's Facebook a comment 11 minutes before she disappeared :

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/grace-millane-murder-suspect-revealed-jesse-kempson-26-described-backpacker-as-radiant-37610779.html


More pictures - there are heaps:
The murder of Grace Millane <a href=The murder of Grace Millane Capturefrrthtntymymymuj_zpscgi0dugv
The murder of Grace Millane <a href=The murder of Grace Millane Capturenlkmolnml99kkkk_zpscedid2rm

Yesterday's 6pm news announcement was that they'd found a/the red shovel...



The murder of Grace Millane <a href=The murder of Grace Millane Capturetzz18_zpsah8fxoqr

#HerLightOurLove

The murder of Grace Millane <a href=The murder of Grace Millane Capturebgggg33e4r_zps8qcqtwqb

Colours reminiscent of the Madeleine Campaign back in May 2007...

The murder of Grace Millane <a href=The murder of Grace Millane Gettyimages-1079426874-612x612_zps2lnxl4ds

Detective Inspector Scott Beard in charge of the case reading from a dramatic-looking book -

This guy's hairline is unbelievably expressive.


https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/378225/opinion-don-t-forget-how-you-felt-the-next-time-this-happens

(more impassioned commentary)

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Post  Freedom on Fri 14 Dec 2018, 5:42 pm

I've given this one its own topic as there are weird McCann type elements about it.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6486979/Shovel-linked-murder-Grace-Millane-detectives-New-Zealand.html
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The murder of Grace Millane Empty Grace Case continues...

Post  Rosa canina on Fri 14 Dec 2018, 9:01 pm

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12177080

"Two former prime ministers are among prominent women calling on men and the Government to make changes in the wake of English backpacker Grace Millane's death.
The call is made in an open letter signed by more than 40 women including Helen Clark and Dame Jenny Shipley, former governor-general Dame Silvia Cartwright, business leaders Theresa Gattung, Joan Withers and Dame Trelise Cooper, along with stars from the arts, science and media.
The letter, which will be sent to the Prime Minister's office today, makes a promise to Millane "to do better as a nation". She was last seen alive on December 1 on the eve of her 22nd birthday. A 26-year-old man was charged with her murder on December 8 before her body was found the following day." etc

https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/109295862/grace-millanes-murder-has-tapped-into-an-underlying-fury

The murder of Grace Millane <a href=The murder of Grace Millane Grace-Millane-Instagram-art_zps2hd1ymwi

The murder of Grace Millane <a href=The murder of Grace Millane Capvjhvjhvjlhgvjlhvlhgvljyhghgujhuihijhij_zpspfttcvdl

Dad getting a cop hongi.

The murder of Grace Millane <a href=The murder of Grace Millane Capturehgfvulgblijg.ikgvkyhgvkuigolguh_zpswv3pohrk

Pointy-fingered politicians doing their bit.

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Post  Rosa canina on Fri 21 Dec 2018, 8:43 pm

Freedom wrote:I've given this one its own topic as there are weird McCann type elements about it.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-essex-46544751

Check out the name of the family friend quoted at the bottom of this article...

Only in Essex...!

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Post  Antonia on Sat 29 Dec 2018, 3:03 pm

Yes, the name of the family friend quoted in the article is indeed interesting.

Could this family friend be the same person who hounded the poor McCanns and confused the martin Smiths?

This person lived until recently in Harlow Essex which is not far from Wickford Essex the hometown of the murdered girl.
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Post  Freedom on Sat 29 Dec 2018, 4:28 pm

I did notice the Essex connection but I think that there will be as many Bennetts there as there are Martin Smiths in Ireland!
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Post  Freedom on Wed 16 Jan 2019, 1:03 pm

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Post  poster on Wed 16 Jan 2019, 8:32 pm

I'm a bit confused. Is there some suggestion that this case is not all it seems? Or what?
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Post  Freedom on Wed 16 Jan 2019, 9:22 pm

I think it's just a mystery why this case - awful as it is but sadly not unique - has attracted McCann type hysteria in New Zealand.
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Post  poster on Thu 17 Jan 2019, 10:05 pm

Freedom wrote:I think it's just a mystery why this case - awful as it is but sadly not unique - has attracted McCann type hysteria in New Zealand.

I don't know - it is shocking though. There have been cases over here where young women travelling and working temporarily, as an au-pair say, have been murdered and they tend to get quite a bit of coverage.

The case seems to be to flagging up the problem of violence against women in New Zealand. This poor girl looked like a lamb to the slaughter. She clearly came from a close-knit family with parents and brothers who adored her and probably her radar for any kind of (sexual) violence was very low. She was vulnerable because she was travelling alone and was taken advantage of presumably with things escalating out of control.

Purely theoretical of course as the case is ongoing.
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Post  Freedom on Thu 07 Nov 2019, 8:49 am

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Post  poster on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 6:41 pm


How horrific for her parents. I doubt there is the slightest evidence she was particularly into 'kinky sex' or whatever it is that the accused claims happened 'accidentally' while they were in his hotel room.

On all the evidence I have seen she was a happy, outgoing girl who probably had no reason not to trust a friendly-seeming stranger.
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Post  poster on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 11:56 pm

The accused in this case looks quite,  if not very, similar to the two brothers of the murdered girl. I think she could have been lulled into a false sense of security around this which might possibly explain why she agreed to go to his room. She was having a nice time and I doubt she had any sense that he might not be kind and respectful as her brothers appear to be.

IMO.
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Post  poster on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 5:07 pm

It would appear that a previous Tinder date nearly had the same fate. And he was still in contact with this person around the time of the murder. What an extraordinary twist to this. I wonder what would have happened if this former date had gone to the police after she was nearly strangled?

Perhaps dating sites like Tinder need to have some kind of system whereby former dates rate a person, a bit like e-bay does for sellers?!  Or even an anonymous 'report antisocial behaviour' type thing?

My admittedly incredibly limited experience of dating sites is that they bring out the very worst in people. I would never, ever have gone on a 'date' with a stranger. I'd want lots of references! You look up the references for everything else (the seller on e-bay, the hotel on tripadvisor, the reviews of a company, product or even, now, a professional.

Why not a potential date?

The argument that the date was into some kind of kinky sex (if true) doesn't really hold water as that does not in any way mean that person wants to die!


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/11/grace-millane-trial-witness-says-she-feared-she-would-die-during-sex-with-suspect
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Post  poster on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 5:14 pm

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Post  poster on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 9:07 pm

On 1 December – the day of the Millane date – the accused again pressed the woman for a date. She declined, making excuses. The accused’s last message to her was half an hour before he first met Millane.

Early the next morning, on 2 December, the accused messaged the woman again, chatting about cricket in between Google searches for “rigor mortis”, and “waitakere ranges” – where Millane’s body was eventually found. He tried unsuccessfully for a date again, on 4 December.


Blimey.

The accused contacted the previous date (who he nearly strangled) half an hour before he first met Grace.

And the following morning (was Grace already dead by then?) he contacted his previous date again.  Then two days later tried to get another date with her.

I would suggest that, in the days prior to the internet, social media and cctv cameras, this could have been a serial killer in the making. Maybe the previous date only survived (as she thought) by stopping struggling and feigning dead?

I would also like to know who the anonymous woman who claimed she had consensual sex with the accused with agreed pressure on her neck was?  Given that the defence would clearly want to bolster the argument that Grace  agreed to consensual 'rough sex'.

New Zealand has quite a small population. Would Grace have agreed to meet this individual if she had been someone living locally?


Scary stuff.
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Post  poster on Wed 13 Nov 2019, 3:39 pm

Watch the police interviews and see how this man talks about prioritizing his own safety and his fears for his safety in the event that Grace had 'catfished' him. He even helpfully explains what catfish means to the interviewer who thankfully allows him to hang himself, metaphorically speaking, with his own rope. He even talks about staying in a public space to be safe.

He dug poor Grace's grave but hopefully he is also digging his own, metaphorically speaking.

If only Grace had had the type of concerns for her safety as he appears to have had for himself.

(I think a previous date described him as a 'sociopath'? Spot on, I would say.)

IMO and thoughts only as of course the trial is ongoing.

A difficult case to defend, I would have thought. I suppose someone has to do it.
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Post  Freedom on Wed 13 Nov 2019, 5:06 pm

There can be no doubt that he is guilty but whether it's of murder or manslaughter will be up to the jury.
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Post  poster on Wed 13 Nov 2019, 5:21 pm

Freedom wrote:There can be no doubt that he is guilty but whether it's of murder or manslaughter will be up to the jury.

Indeed. Whatever the outcome of the case, it is fascinating to have the questioning of the suspect on public record.  If one is to speculate that the suspect has a personality disorder and is incapable of feeling shame or guilt and has no empathy then the recordings could become a very useful case study.

I have long wondered how the McCanns behaved when they were questioned by police. We know that Kate refused to answer any questions, apart from the last one. And we can see how Gerry looked when he came out of the police station after questioning.

Even more fascinating would be to see how the McCanns would fare under cross-examination.

ETA: New Zealand does feel like a very safe country so the suspect's comments about wanting to feel safe by taking a certain route and meeting dates in a public space with security are beyond ironic and make him look incredibly - suspicious. Still, look that way not this way is a good way of putting people off the scent. But it is hardly likely to pull the wool over the eyes of a seasoned detective.  

Notice how the detective asked an important question when the suspect tried to throw him off the scent. After the suspect had talked about how people might pretend they were more attractive than they were ('catfish') the detective asked how meeting in a public place would stop that happening?

Of course, it wouldn't. But the suspect was talking about his own agenda (allegedly!) - which was presumably that a woman he met might have used fake or enhanced photos? And therefore might waste his time. (Big deal, one might say, 'buyer beware' is the name of the game. It's a darn sight better to be deceived about what someone looks like than to end up dead, surely?) But of course that wasn't really his agenda. Which the detective uncovered very quickly by picking out the flaw in his argument.

The suspect was of course unable to say why meeting in a public place would prevent 'catfishing', because it wouldn't. But the suspect then said it was so he would feel safer. In other words, trying to imply that he thought that meeting women he didn't know in a private place might put him into some kind of danger. Nice try, but really?

The suspect shoots himself beautifully in the foot, imo, because anyone with an ounce of common-sense knows that statistically speaking women are at far more danger in these types of situations than men. And men tend to be stronger than women.  A man who had an ounce of respect for women would have talked about meeting in a public place because it was safer for both of them, particularly the woman. He was caught with the noose round his neck, imo, and he pulled it tighter himself.

Even after lying about when he parted company with Grace, and the route he took, he still talks about how it was his own safety he was concerned about. Nice try. The detective's deadpan face is priceless though. Talk about unconvinced, imo!

Its always fascinating when people put other people's words or thoughts into their own mouths, or vice versa. Now, who does that remind me of?

IMO!
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