Re: Thoughts on the case from crime expert Pat Brown

Heisenburg Sat 20 Feb 2016, 10:23 pm

poster wrote:

I suspect that the photo was taken later in May when the pool temperature was warmer and Gerry and Amelie could have more comfortably sat with their legs dangling in the water. I suspect that when the photo was taken Madeleine had long since gone and she was 'photo-shopped' in to make it appear like a happy family cameo.

Thoughts on the case from crime expert Pat Brown - Page 5 2aklgyq

chirpyinsect Sat 20 Feb 2016, 10:24 pm

TheTruthWillOut wrote:I thought I had seen the images I posted before so checked the files I had saved on the PC from months/years ago and found a high quality close up. I can't remember from where.... (possibly a Ch5 program?)

I'm now convinced they are the last photo shorts! What do you guy's think? And what could it mean.......if anything.

I agree they could well be the same shorts but they would have limited clothes with them. I think G went back home to get more round about the 21st so not beyond reason for him to be in the same outfit a week or so after the LP.

costello Sat 20 Feb 2016, 10:29 pm

This is really interesting and could point to May 12. A really hot day? with Sean wearing a sun hat. Personally I would have thought the LP would have 'seemed' more authentic if Sean had been included. Could it be he doesn't like the heat. Just musing.

Mimi Sat 20 Feb 2016, 10:39 pm

Hellsbells wrote:
costello wrote:My take for what little it is worth is that he may think we are on a road to nowhere. I really would be interested in WHY you think he isn't around anymore Hellsbells. Any chance of your views.

I really don't know, costello, but it's strange that someone who was so high profile for years appears to have vanished
I can only suggest one of 3 reasons
1 personal issues
2 he's been ordered to shut up
3 he feels his work is done
other ideas welcome.

He left when the bad behaviour/bitching was going on over the road and I`ve always guessed that was the main reason.

joyce1938 Sat 20 Feb 2016, 11:38 pm

I watched all 4 films this afternoon , in each one I felt was well done .I think it wouldn't be a bad thing ,if we all make some time to see it ,then make up our minds what we make of it . Yes petermac and lizzy did help out too ,that's possably why peter just left for a time ,he is not back on either sites right now . hope some will give it a look see and might be surprised to see how well put together it is ,but don't judge it till the end . Yes we have possably known a lot of it before if we have been around long. This film maybe a way to get out to people that normally just have newspaper rubbish ,to read. Its going onto utube so imagine how many it could reach .That would not normally get to see it . joyce1938

chirpyinsect Sun 21 Feb 2016, 6:28 am

joyce1938 wrote:I watched all 4 films this afternoon , in each one I felt was well done .I think it wouldn't be a bad thing ,if we all make some time to see it ,then make up our minds what we make of it . Yes petermac and lizzy did help out too ,that's possably why peter just left for a time ,he is not back on either sites right now . hope some will give it a look see and might be surprised to see how well put together it is ,but don't judge it till the end . Yes we have possably known a lot of it before if we have been around long. This film maybe a way to get out to people that normally just have newspaper rubbish ,to read. Its going onto utube so imagine how many it could reach .That would not normally get to see it . joyce1938

Good point Joyce. It will be very infirmative for those who are curious to know more.

Dee Coy Sun 21 Feb 2016, 10:07 am

TheTruthWillOut wrote:

I'm now convinced they are the last photo shorts! What do you guy's think? And what could it mean.......if anything.

I agree these are definitely the trunks/shorts Gerry McCann wore in the Last Photo. Without doubt.

What this means with your brilliant link http://www.prphotos.com/e/12179/parents-of-missing-child-madeleine-mccann-gerry-and-kate-mccann--may-12-2007 (SAVE IT everyone) is that we now have photgraphic evidence that GM was wearing the exact same outfit - shorts, tee-shirt and sunglasses on the 12 May as he was wearing in TLP. He's also about the right degree of 'tannedness'.

What better time to take such a photo but on her Birthday? The twins were excited with the balloons and everyone was smiling after the church service. It would not raise eyebrows to see a father splashing with his little daughter to cool her down and calm her down after the excitement. Gerry returns from the church and gets changed for the pool. Again, no raised eyebrows at something that could be considered inappropriate on any other day. In addition, on such a sensitive day, it would not be inappropriate for the family to ask for some private time to allow them to think about Maddie and spend a little time with their twins away from the cameras. Enough time to take their own photo, perhaps?

That last paragraph is theory based on the new facts that we know.

But, of course, this does not means that GM could not have been wearing the exact same outfit on another day, Sunday 29 as PeterMac and RDH think, or even 3 May, as claimed by the McCanns. Because we don't know what he was wearing on those days.

But what we do know is that he was definitely wearing the full outfit - including sunglasses - on 12 May, 9 days after the disappearance and 9 days after the photo is claimed to be taken.

Brilliant work Hellsbells and The Truth Will Out!

Dee Coy Sun 21 Feb 2016, 10:28 am

I watched two and a half of Richard D Hall's new films last night. I'm not going to say anything until I've seen them all.

But he has raised a brilliant point that could affect the above with regard to what clothes everyone was wearing throughout the holiday. He says he black and white grainy pictures that were the collection of photos the group took that week were compiled onto disks and given to the PJ by GM, Michael Wright and Alex Woolfall. RDH believes these were heavily deleted and also obscured by the use of pure "Black and White" scanning. This technique produces the black and white imaged seen in which you can barely identify the people in the photos, never mind the clothes they are wearing.

Only 3 full colour photos were apparently shown on those disks - the ones they wanted the PJ to have? They are the 3 playground photos of Madeleine.

So why deliberately obsure the rest? So that the clothes the Tapas were wearing (particularly GM on 29 April and 3 May??) were obliterated? And so that no-one could see on what days Madeleine was present?

Either way, if what RDH believes is true, this is surely an unashamed attempt to hinder the investigation. As RDH said - why not just hand over the memory cards as any distraught family truly searching for their missing child surely would?

**candyfloss** Sun 21 Feb 2016, 10:36 am

Dee Coy wrote:I watched two and a half of Richard D Hall's new films last night. I'm not going to say anything until I've seen them all.

But he has raised a brilliant point that affects the above with regard to what clothes everyone was wearing throughout the holiday. The black and white grainy pictures that were the collection of photos the group took that week were compiled onto disks and given to the PJ by GM, Michael Wright and Alex Woolfall. RDH believes these were heavily deleted and also obscured by the use of pure "Black and White" scanning. This technique produces the black and white imaged seen in which you can barely identify the people in the photos, never mind the clothes they are wearing.

Only 3 full colour photos were permitted on those disks - the ones they wanted the PJ to have. They are the 3 playground photos of Madeleine.

So why deliberately obsure the rest? So that the clothes the Tapas were wearing (particularly GM on 29 April and 3 May??) were obliterated? And so that no-one could see on what days Madeleine was present?

Either way, this is surely an unashamed attempt to hinder the investigation. As RDH said - why not just hand over the memory cards as any distraught family truly searching for their missing child surely would?

I don't know much, probably totally way wrong, but maybe it is what and how the PJ wanted them released? People would not want to be identified on photos and if you think about it there are no photos of anyone in the files as such apart from the crime scene etc. Maybe the PJ released them like this, and just the ones of Madeleine were released as they should be.

ETA - Don't know how any of it works, it is just a thought. Perhaps there is important info on them and that is why they were released like they are.

Dee Coy Sun 21 Feb 2016, 10:57 am

You may well be right, candyfloss. Here's what the files say about delivery of the photos:

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HOLIDAY-PHOTOS-LIST.htm

08-Outros Processos Vol VIII Page 549
NUIPC 201/07.0 GALGS

Visualisation and Analysis of Photographs

On this date, I state that the photographs contained on a CD delivered to this police force by Gerald McCann have been visualised and analysed, some of them are from the holiday period that the McCann family spent at the Ocean Club in PdL, beginning on the 28th April 2007.

The visualisation and analysis of these images that was carried out reveals that there are several photographs of interest to the investigation, in which it is possible to visualise Madeleine McCann.

Portimao, 09 May 2007

Signed by

Inspector Ricardo Paiva

Outros Processos Vol VIII

Page 550

NUIPC 201/07.0 GALGS

Visualisation and Analysis of Photographs

On this date, I state that the photographs contained on a CD delivered to this police force by Michael Wright, a relation of the McCann couple, relating to the holiday period that the McCann family spent at the Ocean Club in PdL, beginning on the 28th April 2007.

The visualisation and analysis of these images that was carried out reveals that there are several photographs of interest to the investigation, in which it is possible to visualise Madeleine McCann, as well as different adults and children that made up the group of friends who were on holiday together with the McCann couple in PdL, which is why these photographs, joined to the report, were printed.

Portimao, 09 May 2007

Signed by

Inspector Ricardo Paiva

Outros Apensos Vol VIII

Page 553

Service Information

08 ? 05 ? 2007

To: The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation

From: Hugo Ferreira, Inspector

Subject: Annexing of photographic stills to the process files

I am pleased to inform you that today we were given photographic stills taken during the holiday period in Portugal from 28th April by the English families that compose the group that Madeleine Beth was with, so that they can be annexed to the process files.igned
Inspector Hugo Ferreira

There is nothing in there to say who used the Black and White scanning technique - the PJ after receipt of the disk or GM and friends before it was handed over.

It is RDH that suggests the latter:

Film 2, from about 30 mins in:

He doesn't say how he knows Michael Wright and Alex Woolfell assisted GM, though, and in what way.

(I have edited my post above to make it clearer that this is what RDH states on his film only. He does not disclose his source as to how he feels able to make the claims.)

**candyfloss** Sun 21 Feb 2016, 11:02 am

Ah thanks for that Dee Coy, so it could very well be that the PJ only wanted the Madeleine photos identifiable in the files and the rest put in but left as greyscale grainy images, for either a good reason of maybe containing evidence of identifying people especially the children??

Thoughts on the case from crime expert Pat Brown - Page 5 Dunno-smiley-emoticon

They would of course have the original photos..

Hellsbells Sun 21 Feb 2016, 11:08 am

Dee Coy wrote:But what we do know is that he was definitely wearing the full outfit - including sunglasses - on 12 May, 9 days after the disappearance and 9 days after the photo is claimed to be taken.

well done TTIO for unearthing those photos again, I tried internet and forum searches for hours but couldn't find them even though I knew they existed! as far as I can see may 12th is the only day when those shorts/trunks made an appearance, there's no sign of them in any other pics. Clothes were different outside the church that day. As for the sunglasses...

Thoughts on the case from crime expert Pat Brown - Page 5 Gerry-McCann-Parents-of-Missing-Child-Madeleine-McCann,-Gerry-and-Kate-McCann---May-12,-2007

Thoughts on the case from crime expert Pat Brown - Page 5 Gerry-McCann-Parents-of-Missing-Child-Madeleine-McCann,-Gerry-and-Kate-McCann---May-12,-2007

Thoughts on the case from crime expert Pat Brown - Page 5 MaddiemccannPA_468x352

the max temp on may 12th was 20C, not excessively warm, but the wind was no more than moderate, less than april 29th, and the car park pics show it was obviously a lovely day just like the LP. Sadly we can't see the watch in the LP or we might know the time!!! I think it's 10 to 3 in the car park but not sure???

Thoughts on the case from crime expert Pat Brown - Page 5 Gerry-McCann-Parents-of-Missing-Child-Madeleine-McCann,-Gerry-and-Kate-McCann---May-12,-2007

Dee Coy Sun 21 Feb 2016, 11:25 am

candyfloss wrote:Ah thanks for that Dee Coy, so it could very well be that the PJ only wanted the Madeleine photos identifiable in the files and the rest put in but left as greyscale grainy images, for either a good reason of maybe containing evidence of identifying people especially the children??

They would of course have the original photos..

Could be, or perhaps Mr Hall is correct and can back it up with evidence if he needs to? So why not say how he knows this? Could it be the presumptions of a certain.... no, no let's not go there.

One thing I did pick up on last night is a lot of his 'evidence' is from the threads on CMoMM. I'll name two because these were things I posted on there.

One was Amy Tierney's printer and the logistics of being able to print off the initial photos directly from a mamory card or camera. It's impossible, I know becuase I did a lot of research into the specs of that Kodak printer. I posted my findings on CMoMM. Now, RDH could have done the same thing, but he simply said words to the effect of 'I am assured that this is impossible to do'. What's the betting that TB (who commented on my findings at the time) simply passed this onto him. I find it worrying that RDH chose to include this on "say-so" rather than robustly research the printer himself.

The other was The Last Photo and the relative tannedness of Gerry on Sunday 29 April and 4 May when he first went on TV looking darker. I myself pointed out on CMoMM that this was a strong indicator that the LP was taken earlier in the holiday as he was so pale on it. It was picked up by several posters as the definitive conclusion and then, blow me!, it appears on RDH's film as evidence too! In actual fact I now think the "darkness' of GM's skin doesn't mean much as the TV appearance was shot in the dark which could quite well give the effect of a darker skin than in daylight. Plus we con't know what filter was used by the TV station for the final cut - because it was dark they may well have had to fiddle with the colour on the film to make it 'showable' on TV.

In addition, as we have now seen in the posts above, GM looked equally pale on 12 May, making that date just as plausible using this theory for the LP.

So, to conclude, I'm uncertain as to how much RDH has robustly tested the evidence presented in his film. I really really hope he hasn't relied solely on the opinions and pet theories of a 'few', backed up by posts made (probably as theory only, like my tanned one) by members of CMoMM. On the other hand, I have no way of knowing that RDH doesn't have a whole host of concrete facts and sources behind him that he simply hasn't alluded to on film.

Hellsbells Sun 21 Feb 2016, 1:44 pm

ok then, by way of a conspiracy theory to amuse PB, if the LP was taken on may 12th, either (1) Maddie is photoshopped in, (2) the LP is real but it isn't her - it's the Donegal girl or (3) the LP is real and Maddie was still alive on may 12th
take your pick, pat

TheTruthWillOut Sun 21 Feb 2016, 2:05 pm

Yeah the whole Kodak printer fiasco as told is so obviously a lie I can't believe the PJ didn't arrest her and Russ there and then....

1, She says she fetched the printer but doesn't mention her/a Kodak camera that would be required to be docked to be used in this way at all. i.e. if the 'first' picture russ had was contained on a USB stick/flash drive, not the SD card from the Canon.

2, Irrespective of 1, the memory card Russ would have had was a SD card and there is nowhere to plug this in on a G600 (G60 is used in error IMO both in the PJ files and RDH's doc)

The easiest way they could have done this is connect the Canon camera (with SD card inserted) via a USB lead to the USB port on the printer doc and print the picture via PictBridge compatibility.

Not a good idea to lie about something technical if you don't have a clue......

poster Sun 21 Feb 2016, 2:11 pm

May 12th - Madeleine's fourth birthday - would be quite a logical day for this photograph to have been taken. If it is true that Madeleine died during that fateful week, then both Kate and Gerry would still not have completely registered this I suspect. It takes time to process a sudden traumatic event. GM I suspect had never properly bonded with Madeleine so his lack of the type of response you would expect (for instance beaming on the steps of the church) is less surprising.

But KM was definitely looking deeply anguished at the time of the first press conference on Friday 4th May. GM looks worried in this photo, presumably partly because he is worried that they might not get away with what had happened. Which was a last-minute 'disaster' to a pre-arranged plan, imo. (Sorry PB but that is the only way I can reconcile both last minute panic and the hallmarks of some pre-planning.)

There is a very well-defined grieving process which takes people through various stages. Quite often starting with dissociation to allow the emotions to go blank before the reality of the situation sinks in. I've seen this a the funeral of a friend whose spouse died very suddenly and unexpectedly of a heart attack. As people lined up to shake hands after the funeral, I could see a look of surprise on her face when she saw the crying faces. She had not yet psychologically/emotionally processed the reality of what had happened.

May 12th would be very early days in the grieving process. The pair may not even have fully registered the enormity and impact of what has recently happened. While GM I believe has psychopathic tendencies and therefore his responses will not fit with the 'norm'. But I do think Kate would have gone through the various stages of grieving.

On the day that would have been Madeleine's fourth birthday, I can understand why the couple might want to recreate a scene that can no longer exist, imo, however much they might want to turn back the hands of the clock. Their insistence that Madeleine is 'out there' and might one day be found is, in part, a psychological response, imo. It is easier to create a fantasy situation which allows for some hope than to face the reality of a situation from which there is no return.

IMO!

What am trying to say in a very long-winded way (ahem) is that Madeleine's fourth birthday would be a logical day for this photograph to have been taken to create the fantasy of a happy family gathering of the type that can no longer exist. It is of note that this photo was not released until after Gerry had returned to the UK which might possibly suggest that he (in part) returned to the UK to get photos of Madeleine to include in the alleged LP. As I think there are is little, if any, photographic evidence of Madeleine that week apart from the filming of her on the airport bus and climbing up the steps into the aircraft.

Guest Sun 21 Feb 2016, 5:48 pm

Re: Gerry's May 21 trip back to Rothley:

Evening Standard, 21 May 2007

Quoting friend Andrew Renwick, talking about Gerry's trip back to Rothley:

'Mr Renwick went on: "He felt he had to go back to do the practical things. There are bills that need to be paid. The family need more clothes and he wants to get more photographs of Madeleine to help in the search. He also wanted to meet organisers of the trust to go over documents."'
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id280.html

Possibly picking up the photoshopped Last Photo for release to the media on May 24...?

poster Sun 21 Feb 2016, 7:38 pm

canada12 wrote:Re: Gerry's May 21 trip back to Rothley:

Evening Standard, 21 May 2007

Quoting friend Andrew Renwick, talking about Gerry's trip back to Rothley:

'Mr Renwick went on: "He felt he had to go back to do the practical things. There are bills that need to be paid. The family need more clothes and he wants to get more photographs of Madeleine to help in the search. He also wanted to meet organisers of the trust to go over documents."'
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id280.html

Possibly picking up the photoshopped Last Photo for release to the media on May 24...?

That would make sense...some of the truth often seeps out in the form of a lie. So GM admits that he needs more photos of Madeleine but gives a deceptive reason for it in true TM fashion. Rather than 'helping' the search, I would suggest the motive was providing a cover-up and hindering the search.

The fact that GM claims he had to go home to get photos (plus clothing with Madeleine's DNA on it) shows what an extraordinary family 'holiday' this was. You would have expected there to be dozens of photos from the holiday. And you would have expected Madeleine's DNA to be all over the place - in the apartment, in the creche, in the friends' apartments.

What a weird 'holiday' it must have been. What the heck was really going on?

poster Sun 21 Feb 2016, 8:20 pm

Talking of Madeleine's fourth birthday. According to Kate in her book they had arranged a joint party in Leicester for Madeleine and two of her classmates at nursery, her best friend Sophia, who had been born on the same day, and a little boy called Sam whose birthday was within a few days of theirs.

Be interesting to speak to the families of these children, imo. I wonder what they think of the abduction theory?

Hellsbells Mon 22 Feb 2016, 8:12 am

am often surprised at how the forum makes good progress on certain issues and then suddenly loses interest. There is persuasive evidence above of the date when the LP might have been taken, blowing the april 29th theory to smithereens, but this astounding revelation has been largely ignored. More work on this could be crucial. Do we want to solve this or continue to get swamped by all the red herrings that have been distracting everyone for the last 9 years?
please can someone help to ascertain the time in the car park photos by magnifying the watch in better res than I can? Important bcoz we know the LP was taken around 1.30. Thanks in advance.
also thanks to those who have contributed so far.

so, what happened on may 12th 2007? http://www.itnsource.com/en/shotlist/RTV/2007/05/12/RTV717207/?v=0

Thoughts on the case from crime expert Pat Brown - Page 5 Statement

Thoughts on the case from crime expert Pat Brown - Page 5 Statement

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/4TH_BIRTHDAY.htm

so where was everyone around lunchtime on may 12th? this is worth a read:

http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/Calendar-Timetables/CALENDAR-May-Sept-2007-with-Phone-Pings-1-912708.html

Hellsbells Mon 22 Feb 2016, 9:34 am

may 12th 2007: The McCanns arrived back at their resort apartment at 4pm yesterday after spending the day with their twins Sean and Amelie, two, in a brave bid to carry on as normally as possible. Amelie was carrying a red balloon. Kate hugged Sean, who was carrying a green balloon. Gerry smiled and paused for photographs and kissed Amelie gently as they walked into the apartment.

Thoughts on the case from crime expert Pat Brown - Page 5 Gerry-McCann-Parents-of-Missing-Child-Madeleine-McCann,-Gerry-and-Kate-McCann---May-12,-2007

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id86.html

where were they at lunchtime? who knows?

Thoughts on the case from crime expert Pat Brown - Page 5 2aklgyq

Bampots Mon 22 Feb 2016, 10:12 am

you have to admit that is a very sheepish looking Gerry,not often seen like that hand in hand with Amelie,Kate looking very down indeed.

Poe Mon 22 Feb 2016, 11:11 am

Just a minor point about the photo of the four of them.

Sean is carrying cuddle cat.

I'm willing to bet that every parent on this forum has had, or will have, a situation where a toddler had dropped a much loved toy unnoticed.

I would have expected Kate to keep cuddle cat safe as it is one of the supposed last links to Madeleine.

To take it on a family day out and to let Sean carry it show that it is nothing more than a prop for the photos.

IMO.

Andrew Mon 22 Feb 2016, 11:21 am

Absolutely CC was only a prop. (another marketing ploy and all that)

I was always surprised that they didn't have CC positioned/shopped in, in the dubious 'last photo'.

Sat on the edge of the pool dangling it's paws in the water or sprawled out on the deckchair behind catching some rays.

poster Mon 22 Feb 2016, 1:53 pm

Hellsbells wrote:am often surprised at how the forum makes good progress on certain issues and then suddenly loses interest. There is persuasive evidence above of the date when the LP might have been taken, blowing the april 29th theory to smithereens, but this astounding revelation has been largely ignored. More work on this could be crucial. Do we want to solve this or continue to get swamped by all the red herrings that have been distracting everyone for the last 9 years?
please can someone help to ascertain the time in the car park photos by magnifying the watch in better res than I can? Important bcoz we know the LP was taken around 1.30. Thanks in advance.
also thanks to those who have contributed so far.

so, what happened on may 12th 2007? http://www.itnsource.com/en/shotlist/RTV/2007/05/12/RTV717207/?v=0

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/4TH_BIRTHDAY.htm

so where was everyone around lunchtime on may 12th? this is worth a read:

http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/Calendar-Timetables/CALENDAR-May-Sept-2007-with-Phone-Pings-1-912708.html

Kate's book (page 127):

[i]Saturday, 12 May 2007. Madeleine's fourth birthday......John Hill had arranged for us all, Gerry, Sean, Amelie and myself, Trish and Sandy, and Fiona, David, Dianne, Jane, Russell, Matt and Rachael and their kids - to spend the day at a private villa. (Nick left that weekend, and Michael had popped home for a couple of days.) ......It was good to be away from the Ocean Club and the media circus......The Mark Warner staff had brought over stacks of food for us. The men organized a barbecue and there was wine and beer...I couldn't eat much, and alcohol was completely off my agenda. Fiona recalls that Gerry and I were completely shut down that day, barely able to talk....Gerry did attempt a toast but he was visibly upset......After attending a special Mass for her at the church early in the evening we were visited in the apartment by Cat, Madeleine's nanny at Mini Club. She had some news for us: she and some of her colleagues were being sent to another Mark Warner resort in Greece. None of them wanted to leave, and to this day we do not fully understand the decision.......But from our point of view it meant the removal of key witnesses from Praia da Luz."

So supposedly GM on that Saturday was at a private villa with the group and their children for the day having a barbecue lunch. It was presumably much warmer than it had been during the fateful holiday week because Kate writes: "...the kids enjoyed themselves, playing in and around the pool with floats and toys....".

Later, in the early evening, they went to a special Mass at the church. And after that they were visited in the apartment by Cat.

For some reason I can't post pictures (from the link below) but does this look like a couple who are: "completely shut down that day, barely able to talk.....Gerry...was visibly upset...."

ETA: I wonder which villa it was? Note how TM are still managing to get MW to wine and dine them - at a private villa, no less....

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Kate+and+Gerry+at+the+church+on+Madeleine%27s+fourth+birthday+images&rlz=1C1GPEA_en-gbGB511GB5

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Thoughts on the case from crime expert Pat Brown