Thoughts on the case from crime expert Pat Brown

Walt wrote:

Bampots wrote:Does Pat Browwn sum it up for you Walt?

KISS,is what she says I believe.

KISS is what I believe too.  

Having followed this case from the beginning, as many others here and elsewhere have, for me personally (for the most part) Pat Brown is bang on the money.

PB branding other people "conspiracy theorists" by dismissing their observations without argument and failing to see the obvious doesn't show her up in a good light imo. After all her "solution" (unproven and not backed up by any tangible evidence) is a conspiracy theory of its own, isn't it? Her intransigence would make me question her judgement in all the other cases she has commented on and therefore undermine her credibility as a self-imposed crime "expert". But that's her loss.
anyone who thinks KISS applies in this case can't possibly believe PB's version. 9 people involved in telling lies, faking colouring books, room checks, timetables, coming and going like a Brian Rix farce. Simple? I don't think so!
the KISS version is that she was abducted and the kidnapper got away with it. And whose version is that?

Pat has not haphazardly dismissed peoples observations.  On the contrary, she has endlessly and painstakingly explained her reasons for arriving at her conclusions!  She has traveled to Portugal and stayed there for nearly a week and heavily scrutinised the areas and streets surrounding Apartment 5A.   She has met with Goncalo Amaral and Tony also.  This is not a woman who has arrived lightly at her conclusions, and as a criminal profiler Pat Brown has additional knowledge that many of us do not possess.  I personally happen to agree with most of her views.  

I think she has been remarkably polite also, after being subject to rather nasty verbal attacks from some (so called) antis.

in her blog post on p1 of this thread she dismisses without argument a number of valid points that have been made on this forum and others (including TB and Petermac's suggestion that the LP may have been taken earlier in the holiday - I don't agree with them but am prepared to listen) Her mind appears to be closed, never a good thing in detective work, so she isn't taking all the factors into account. If she were correct, the case would have been solved years ago. I find her lack of application to the job of crime solving to be surprisingly slapdash considering she claims to be an expert on the subject. But I reckon if the case is ever solved it will blow her credibility out of the water.

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2806588/posts

Well said pennylane, I would say Pat Brown knows a lot more and is in a far greater position to comment, that some of the 'experts' on the forums.  I go with KISS theory everytime.

Hellsbells wrote:in her blog post on p1 of this thread she dismisses without argument a number of valid points that have been made on this forum and others (including TB and Petermac's suggestion that the LP may have been taken earlier in the holiday - I don't agree with them but am prepared to listen) Her mind appears to be closed, never a good thing in detective work, so she isn't taking all the factor into account. If she were correct, the case would have been solved years ago. I find her lack of application to the job of crime solving to be surprisingly slapdash considering she claims to be an expert on the subject.

Pat has endlessly articulated her views on this case over many years now. I don't find her slapdash at all, so I think it's best we just agree to disagree.

candyfloss wrote:
Well said pennylane, I would say Pat Brown knows a lot more and is in a far greater position to comment, that some of the 'experts' on the forums.  I go with KISS theory everytime.

Seconded

Totally agree, candyfloss, thank you xx.

KISS KISS

ok so she's right and 9 years of PJ and NSY still can't solve it? I prefer to think she might be just a self-proclaimed "expert" criminologist who happens to make entertaining TV.

Hellsbells wrote:ok so she's right and 9 years of PJ and NSY still can't solve it.

We don't know if she is right or part right, or maybe wrong - I am sure both the PJ and SY have solved it, it is the gathering of evidence to bring perpetrators whoever they are to justice is what takes the time and is unfortunately sometimes impossible. I expect they both have a pretty good idea of what happened.

Agreed Candyfloss.
I think the PJ and SY have solved it too. But without evidence that will stand up in court, they can't publicly state their conclusions - nor should they. And without evidence that will stand up to scrutiny in court, they can't arrest anyone and lay charges. I think that's where we are with this case. But that doesn't exclude future technology that will result in arrests. It happens all the time these days. Cold case files that have remained unsolved for decades have been solved due to improvements in DNA identification and other technological advances. The McCanns must live with that.

candyfloss wrote:Well said pennylane, I would say Pat Brown knows a lot more and is in a far greater position to comment, that some of the 'experts' on the forums.  I go with KISS theory everytime.

did you really just say that about some of the members of your own forum, candyfloss? Myself, I have been impressed by the astute observations of a number of contributors to MMM, many of whom don't agree with PB's "version". perhaps you should stand down and let me run the forum as I'm not in the business of insulting my fellow contributors.

I really hope this very excellent topic, with the abundance of recent work done on it, isn't derailed and locked.

Just saying....

Hellsbells wrote:

candyfloss wrote:Well said pennylane, I would say Pat Brown knows a lot more and is in a far greater position to comment, that some of the 'experts' on the forums.  I go with KISS theory everytime.

did you really just say that about some of the members of your own forum, candyfloss? Myself, I have been impressed by the astute observations of a number of contributors to MMM, many of whom don't agree with PB's "version". perhaps you should stand down and let me run the forum as I'm not in the business of insulting my fellow contributors.

Give it a rest Hellsbells, stop twisting things.  It is my opinion ,and I am sticking to it!!   Strange how you attack everytime.

the day when the owner of a forum describes her own members as "experts" but puts the word in inverted commas is the day when I know the game is up. To the many excellent researchers on this thread who have done much to suggest that the LP MAY have been taken after may 3rd I thank you for your help and friendship in recent weeks and sorry I won't be helping you in future. I will leave you by saying that you have contributed far more to the debate than Pat Brown ever did.

Hellsbells wrote:the day when the owner of a forum describes her own members as "experts" but puts the word in inverted commas is the day when I know the game is up. To the many excellent researchers on this thread who have done much to suggest that the LP MAY have been taken after may 3rd I thank you for your help and friendship in recent weeks and sorry I won't be helping you in future. I will leave you by saying that you have contributed far more to the debate than Pat Brown ever did.

Your decision I am not grovelling.  Everytime someone disagrees with you you attack, I have my own opinions and voice them same as you, I agreed with pennylane yet you attack straight away.  I have let you get on with this thread without any interference yet as soon as I agree with someone that doesn't fit your theories you throw a wobbly, and twist things.  Your decision.

ETA:  Who mentioned this forum ??  I was talking generally.... twisting!

The only reason I don't see that last pic being taken on the 12/18th of May is that I just can't see the mcs sitting round the pool with the worlds eyes on them, only to release it at a later date, IMO.

dogs don't lie wrote:The only reason I don't see that last pic being taken on the 12/18th of May is that I just can't see the mcs sitting round the pool with the worlds eyes on them, only to release it at a later date, IMO.

Think of it this way though DDL. Who would question the family sitting by the pool a few days after M goes missing, taking lovely little photos of their remaining children? No one would think they would be inserting their missing child into the picture, then manipulating the date and time. To make it seem authentic, they likely took lots of shots but only released the best "fit"

canada12 wrote:I really hope this very excellent topic, with the abundance of recent work done on it, isn't derailed and locked.

Just saying....

Such a pity if it stops discussion as it was producing some new and interesting theories. And they are all just theories. None of us know what happened including PB as we weren't there. Why can't we all just agree to disagree? Those who subscribe to the KISS theory are entitled to think that is what happened just the same as those who think there is more to it.
If we are just to accept that nothing is worth exploring that doesn't fit with the initial, 9 year old theory then we may as well all pack in. The more we scrutinise, dissect and discuss, the more uncomfortable TM are going to be because one day someone may find the key piece of information that blows the whole thing out the water. We already know that certain subjects press their buttons.

What ever happened to this?

I have been enjoying both sides of this discussion and can see some of the points that everyone is making regarding the date of the Last Photo but have yet to be completely convinced that it might have been compiled later in May

Pat Brown spends her life investigating all sorts of crimes so must have a gut feeling about most of them

Therefore I understand the feelings of those, including Candyfloss herself, who say we should respect her opinion

I suspect Ms Brown isn't far from the truth

Neveronasunday wrote:I have been enjoying both sides of this discussion and can see some of the points that everyone is making regarding the date of the Last Photo but have yet to be completely convinced that it might have been compiled later in May

Pat Brown spends her life investigating all sorts of crimes so must have a gut feeling about most of them

Therefore I understand the feelings of those, including Candyfloss herself, who say we should respect her opinion

I suspect Ms Brown isn't far from the truth

Totally agree Noas,

I think Goncalo came very close to finding the truth of what happened in those early days.  I also expect there are things he knows that he has kept close to his chest.  

Pat Brown (imo) is not far off the mark re what happened on that ill fated night also.

chirpyinsect wrote:

canada12 wrote:I really hope this very excellent topic, with the abundance of recent work done on it, isn't derailed and locked.

Just saying....

Such a pity if it stops discussion as it was producing some new and interesting theories. And they are all just theories. None of us know what happened including PB as we weren't there. Why can't we all just agree to disagree? Those who subscribe to the KISS theory are entitled to think that is what happened just the same as those who think there is more to it.
If we are just to accept that nothing is worth exploring that doesn't fit with the initial, 9 year old theory then we may as well all pack in. The more we scrutinise, dissect and discuss, the more uncomfortable TM are going to be because one day someone may find the key piece of information that blows the whole thing out the water. We already know that certain subjects press their buttons.

That's correct chirpy, and you will note that I was jumped on quickly when I voiced my opinion, as I was the other day with a rather hostile post. 

The thread has not been interfered with, members here were discussing quite happily and can still do so, I totally object though to being told what to do, especially when I have a right to my opinion just as hellsbells has, even though I totally disagree with his theory that Madeleine never went on that holiday.

pennylane wrote:

Neveronasunday wrote:I have been enjoying both sides of this discussion and can see some of the points that everyone is making regarding the date of the Last Photo but have yet to be completely convinced that it might have been compiled later in May

Pat Brown spends her life investigating all sorts of crimes so must have a gut feeling about most of them

Therefore I understand the feelings of those, including Candyfloss herself, who say we should respect her opinion

I suspect Ms Brown isn't far from the truth

I think Goncalo came very close to finding the truth of what happened in those early days.  I also expect there are things he knows that he has kept close to his chest.  

Pat Brown (imo) is not far off the mark re what happened on that ill fated night also.

GA may very well have nailed what happened but on the other hand he may have concluded that it happened differently by now. He spent what, 5 months as coordinator and has now had 8 plus years of further consideration and dissemination which may have pointed him in a different direction. As he wrote his book based on what the PJ concluded AT THAT TIME, then was sued for doing so, he could hardly change his defence in the midst of litigation. If the court case ever comes to an end it would be fascinating to read what he thinks nowadays.

Possibly so chirpy, although Dr Amaral is on the record as stating he knows more than he has divulged!  It's purely speculative to assume he has changed his views without any indication of such throughout his many interviews, but I agree it would be interesting to read exactly what he thinks nowadays.