Thoughts on the case from criminal profiler Pat Brown

it wouldn't need photoshopping chirpyinsect - I am proposing (by way of a conspiracy theory) that the LP is real, the girl in the LP is real (no photoshopping) and that she is the same girl that appeared in the Donegal photos (but she is not Maddie).
I am also proposing that the photo was taken after may 3rd. The poolside area was quiet and the mystery girl was accompanied by her own parent(s).
the photo was taken quickly when a suitable opportunity arose, that's why it's such a bad photo, everyone looking in different directions and Dad looking tense. No chance of doing a second take.
yes, a conspiracy theory, but one that fits all the criteria imo.

Ah thanks for the explanation. Going by the planting it was later rather than sooner but which year?

didn't Dad wear that exact outfit on may 13th 2007?

it was a lovely day, maximum temp 29C. I would say that fits the LP perfectly.

If memory serves me, he wore that outfit in the shuttle bus video ...

Of all the Madeleines, the one in the LP does resemble the one in Donegal the most (bottom left two):

Hellsbells wrote:didn't Dad wear that exact outfit on may 13th 2007?

it was a lovely day, maximum temp 29C. I would say that fits the LP perfectly.

This was taken on 7 May 2007:

Freedom wrote:I remember this being discussed before. Experts on any given subject don't always agree with each other.

I'm not suggesting that there was any undue pressure put on the two experts involved here but they are after all just stating their own opinion.

My main quibble with the LP experts is that we don't know exactly what they were asked to examine to determine whether or not the photo was tampered with. You must ask specific questions to get specific answers. Asking "Do you believe this photo was tampered with?" is not enough. You need to ask specifically, "Is it possible that Madeleine's face was photoshopped in to another girl's body and if so, how?" or, "Is it possible that Madeleine in her entirety was photoshopped into this picture and if so, how?" or "Is it possible to see evidence of photoshopping in these specific areas: Gerry's sunglasses, Madeleine's neck and head area, the droplets of water suspended in midair, the odd black and white object behind Amelie, etc" If a photoshop expert was asked these specific questions, and provided specific answers, I'd be far more likely to accept their word.

good find Dee Coy.
A couple of years ago I remember someone on this forum (chilli heat???) finding a photo of Dad returning from somewhere around lunchtime wearing the same clothes as in the LP. I think it was on a TV documentary and I think the date was may 13th.
have been looking for photo but can't find it.
anyone else remember this?
Re Pat Brown, she has taken a standard crimesolving route to explain what happened to Maddie but her explanation doesnt add up for me so imo a conspiracy theory is more likely.

There's a photo somewhere of Kate and Gerry and the twins entering the Ocean Club together. Gerry is wearing the same outfit as in the LP and Amelie is wearing the same t-shirt except that the colour is different. Not so difficult to switch colours in Photoshop. I'll try and find the photo too.

that's the one, canada12, I think it was in the car park outside 5A. I remember a poster (who I think was chilli heat) pausing a TV documentary when this photo came up and saving the screenshot. The only time it's been seen I believe. When we find this I will put together my conspiracy theory for everyone's comments but I don't expect to convince PB!!

Hellsbells wrote:that's the one, canada12, I think it was in the car park outside 5A. I remember a poster (who I think was chilli heat) pausing a TV documentary when this photo came up and saving the screenshot. The only time it's been seen I believe. When we find this I will put together my conspiracy theory for everyone's comments but I don't expect to convince PB!!

Here's a long shot of that image. I'll try and find the closeup.

Hellsbells wrote:yes poster, even if the LP is genuine it doesnt mean it must have been taken around april 29th/30th as PM insisted. In theory it could have been taken any time between the first warm sunny day of the year and the day it was released, may 24th. Sorry all, not trying to get a LP debate going but using this as an example of how easy it is to leap to conclusions by assuming too much and not examining all possibilities.

Given how freezing the water was at the time of the holiday it is highly unlikely that Gerry, Amelie and Madeleine would have been comfortable sitting dangling their legs in the water in that manner on Thursday 3rd May. The outside air temperature wasn't that hot either so it's not like they would have been desperate to cool down.

I suspect that the photo was taken later in May when the pool temperature was warmer and Gerry and Amelie could have more comfortably sat with their legs dangling in the water. I suspect that when the photo was taken Madeleine had long since gone and she was 'photo-shopped' in to make it appear like a happy family cameo.

Given that I suspect  that holiday week was the week from hell for all concerned - but especially poor little Madeleine of course - I would imagine that GM had to spend the following few weeks desperately coming up with 'evidence' that Madeleine was fine until the time of 'the abduction'. What better 'evidence' than a photo showing Madeleine with other family members?

I am quite sure that if this photo was subjected to scrutiny from those who are expert in photo-shopping and the like,  it would probably be exposed as a fraud.

the problem is that we don't know that the girl in the LP is Maddie because we don't really know what she looked like. So it could be someone else and not photoshopped.
canada12, well found re T shirt but are the shorts the same????

Snipped from CP's post upthread:

Also I question all the confusion round who owned the Olympus camera handed to Hampshire police on 8 May. I thought it had been established that this belonged to Hampshire resident Nigel Foster. The memory cards are annotated with his initials and he was back home by that date. It makes sense that his camera would first be handed to Hampshire police. There is even evidence in the files that an officer was asked to go to their home to retrieve video footage. Why try to confuse this with the greyscale photos in the files?

Nigel from Southampton is a real thorn in the TM side!

Given that he approached the TM group and protested that the way they were filming his daughter playing mini-tennis was making him feel uncomfortable. Why on earth would TM want to film someone else's child playing tennis when they all had children of their own taking part in activities that week? Given that this happened on Thursday morning I suspect this would have been another attempt, perhaps, to get a grainy shot of a 3/4 year old girl who looked a bit like Madeleine and pass it off as 'evidence' that Madeleine had been fine at the time of her mini-tennis session which had been on Tuesday morning.

This suggests to me that by Tuesday something had gone wrong. And TM were desperate to get 'evidence' that Madeleine was okay on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. When she might not have been.

The last independent and reliable sighting of Madeleine was Sunday lunchtime, imo, when the cleaner saw all three children in trainers with flashing soles - holding plates with food on them - and their parents heading out to lunch which they had at the Paynes' apartment.

After Sunday, the McCanns deviated from the routine followed by the rest of the group.

Monday is a 'lost day' - no account of what they did in Kate's book and then the curious press report of a trip to Sagres which the McCanns don't mention.

So perhaps on Sunday evening *something* happened (quiz night?) which generated a reaction which lead to 'a disaster' which unfolded over the following few days.

A theory, as always.

Hellsbells wrote:the problem is that we don't know that the girl in the LP is Maddie because we don't really know what she looked like. So it could be someone else and not photoshopped.
canada12, well found re T shirt but are the shorts the same????

Good point. The girl in the LP looks quite different to the girl in the poster campaign. Much older, for a start. But the girl in the poster looks much younger than nearly four.

Hellsbells wrote:
canada12, well found re T shirt but are the shorts the same????

I don't think they are. Canada's photo id taken from the same day as this one from this article from 20 May:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1552126/Parents-tell-of-fight-to-shield-Madeleine-twins.html



Gerry is wearing slate coloured loose short combats, which he sports quite often.



The shorts in the LP are khaki coloured, I think.

yes I think you are right.
but in the LP I don't think he's wearing shorts at all, I think they are SWIMMING TRUNKS (because of the cord). Shorts don't have cords, trunks do.
you don't wear swimming trunks unless it's pretty warm, so I don't think the LP can have been taken that week and may have been taken some time between may 3rd and may 24th.
I can only think that means either Maddie is photoshopped in OR it's someone else.
conspiracy theory indeed, PB would love this!!!!

Which shorts are these? This photo is from May 7, same time as the first photo I posted above. He's wearing the Tee-shirt, the sunglasses, but are those the shorts? Could May 7 be the date? It looks hot enough and GM is not particularly tanned yet, same as the LP.

Close-up of the LP "shorts". I think you're right, HB - they're trunks:

I think this photo from May 12th is a match for colour (I don't think/not sure they are the actual shorts) for Gerry's last photo shorts:



As Dee Coy says Khaki/Olive/Green shorts that end above the knee. Others are blue/navy and at or below the knee.

I think that's the one I was looking for, TTWO, poss the only other time they've been photgraphed. May 12th then.

If that's white stitching around the hem, TTWO, then you may have found them!

May 12, then?

Yes the white stitching Dee Coy, good spot. I think that is what I see in this image:



From here: http://www.prphotos.com/e/12179/parents-of-missing-child-madeleine-mccann-gerry-and-kate-mccann--may-12-2007

Maddie's 4th birthday, hence the balloons. And it looks a lovely warm sunny day, coincidentally just like the LP! Sunglasses?



Must go and sleep on this, night all.

I thought I had seen the images I posted before so checked the files I had saved on the PC from months/years ago and found a high quality close up. I can't remember from where.... (possibly a Ch5 program?)



I'm now convinced they are the last photo shorts! What do you guy's think? And what could it mean.......if anything.