Re: General Election Discussion - before and after the event

**candyfloss** Mon 22 May 2017, 10:03 am

Here is the link for the article with the information.....

Reality Check: Who could social care changes affect?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39964524

**candyfloss** Mon 22 May 2017, 10:10 am

General election 2017: New warning over social care plans

20 minutes ago

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39995648

Dee Coy Mon 22 May 2017, 10:15 am

@Winslow
That's right. The Labour manifesto will be partially funded by tax payers - the top 5% wealthiest only. Another huge chunk will come from holding corporate tax-dodgers to account and extracting our due. They will also reverse the Tory cuts to Corperation tax rates for the biggest and richest companies.

They will also impose a levy on companies who pay their executives more than £350k and will impose a 'per transaction' fee on those banks which caused the financial crash by their greed and who were bailed out by the UK government at a cost of billions.

All of which sounds fair to me. There's a rather good summary here in the Mirror of the proposals:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/heres-how-labour-pay-manifesto-10432615.amp

So I don't think the likes of us need to worry about paying more tax. We'll see the benefits instead.

May be a good idea to question the costings of the Tory manifesto, though. Because the likes of us should be very worried about that indeed. More austerity means less ability to contribute to the economy while seeing the simultaneous effects of the inevitable wipe out of the NHS, Education, the Prison services, the Social services et al. And then the'll have the excuse they've been manufacturing all along to enable them to privatise the lot. Goodbye UK as we know it, hello 3rd world Britain.

Dee Coy Mon 22 May 2017, 10:27 am

Following on from Candyfloss' Mirror front page yesterday.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/voice-mirror-lynton-crosbys-silence-10472492#ICID=sharebar_twitter

http://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-mays-election-guru-lynton-10471574.amp

The hypocrisy of the Tories and those who advise them knows no shame.

Winslow Boy Mon 22 May 2017, 10:46 am

Dee Coy wrote:@Winslow
That's right. The Labour manifesto will be partially funded by tax payers - the top 5% wealthiest only. Another huge chunk will come from holding corporate tax-dodgers to account and extracting our due. They will also reverse the Tory cuts to Corperation tax rates for the biggest and richest companies.

They will also impose a levy on companies who pay their executives more than £350k and will impose a 'per transaction' fee on those banks which caused the financial crash by their greed and who were bailed out by the UK government at a cost of billions.

All of which sounds fair to me. There's a rather good summary here in the Mirror of the proposals:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/heres-how-labour-pay-manifesto-10432615.amp

So I don't think the likes of us need to worry about paying more tax. We'll see the benefits instead.

May be a good idea to question the costings of the Tory manifesto, though. Because the likes of us should be very worried about that indeed. More austerity means less ability to contribute to the economy while seeing the simultaneous effects of the inevitable wipe out of the NHS, Education, the Prison services, the Social services et al. And then the'll have the excuse they've been manufacturing all along to enable them to privatise the lot. Goodbye UK as we know it, hello 3rd world Britain.

That link is to the Daily Mirror, I will say no more on that. Austerity was once again caused by the previous Labour Party. You will be ok whilst Corbyn is borrowing and spending but how long will that last. The Conservatives promote wealth, and Rich people stay in this Country and invest to make more money and so employ more people. If you tax them out of profit making they will go elsewhere, so no tax paid at all. So who will pay it then ?
You can see the Labour plan a mile off, they've been doing it for decades, and failing.
Open the floodgates and bring in cheap labour. This undermines the current working class who can't compete, so their wage drops. So people become worse off, why bother to work then. So who is going to pay taxes, and who is going to lend us money now we haven't the means to pay it back? Welcome back to the 70's, the strikes,power cuts,fuel shortages, Corbyn's World.

Dee Coy Mon 22 May 2017, 10:55 am

Where are the borrowing plans?

Jeremy Corbyn and his current Shadow Cabinet are not responsible for the actions of the Blairite New Labour government. Their's is, however, the only manifesto which has a cat in hell's chance of getting us out of the mess that Thatcher initiated in the 80s and governments since - both blue and pink but definitely NOT red - have perpetuated.

Dee Coy Mon 22 May 2017, 11:05 am

[size=32]Winslow Boy: "Open the floodgates and bring in cheap labour. This undermines the current working class who can't compete, so their wage drops. So people become worse off, why bother to work then. So who is going to pay taxes, and who is going to lend us money now we haven't the means to pay it back? "[/size]

There, right there, is the current Tory policy for immigration and their disingenuous strategy of divide and rule of the working classes.

It has NOTHING to do with Corbyn's plans which clearly state a £10 minimum wage for ALL employees, no undercutting and an even crack of the whip for all. It's a masterstroke, it will negate UKIP into the bargain bounce

You really must stop making things up.

**candyfloss** Mon 22 May 2017, 11:17 am

What happened to Clarence Mitchell then?

Hove Conservatives select candidate to take on Peter Kyle

http://www.brightonandhovenews.org/2017/04/28/hove-conservatives-select-candidate-to-take-on-peter-kyle/

Winslow Boy Mon 22 May 2017, 11:39 am

Dee Coy wrote:Where are the borrowing plans?

Jeremy Corbyn and his current Shadow Cabinet are not responsible for the actions of the Blairite New Labour government. Their's is, however, the only manifesto which has a cat in hell's chance of getting us out of the mess that Thatcher initiated in the 80s and governments since - both blue and pink but definitely NOT red - have perpetuated.

£10 minimum wage for everyone that's exactly what he wants. So I would have to drop down to compete, I think you've proven my point.

Labour Manifesto- read Fiction. Vote for me I'm going to give everybody a million pounds, Save the NHS, buy every body a house and pay all their bills.~~Build a factory on the moon and make cheese.~~ Oh sorry I'm unable to sustain economical growth so instead I will be borrowing more and more money and then spend spend spend until it runs out, and hope that the Tories can bale us out again. Don't be taken in by Corbyn, look at his past, who he supported, is this the man who is going to do right for this country.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/19/exclusive-mi5-opened-file-jeremy-corbyn-amid-concerns-ira-links/

**candyfloss** Mon 22 May 2017, 11:40 am

Hmm, and how much has this cost to try and brainwash us...

Conservatives buy 'dementia tax' Google ad as criticism of policy grows

Tactic shows Tories are willing to adopt pejorative term for policy in order to tackle criticism of social care proposals

The Conservatives have paid for a Google advert that appears at the top of the page when users search for “dementia tax” in response to growing attacks on Theresa May’s social care policy.

More on link.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/22/conservatives-buy-dementia-tax-google-ad-as-criticism-of-policy-grows

**candyfloss** Mon 22 May 2017, 11:42 am

Vote 2017: Tories buy Google advertisement to defend 'dementia tax'
Theresa May's team tackles the "dementia tax" backlash with a Google advert as George Osborne suggests there will be a u-turn.

http://news.sky.com/story/vote-2017-dementia-tax-plans-threatened-by-councils-10888536

Winslow Boy Mon 22 May 2017, 11:48 am

candyfloss wrote:Vote 2017: Tories buy Google advertisement to defend 'dementia tax'
Theresa May's team tackles the "dementia tax" backlash with a Google advert as George Osborne suggests there will be a u-turn.

http://news.sky.com/story/vote-2017-dementia-tax-plans-threatened-by-councils-10888536

I think TM, as before, will listen to the people and this will be rectified for the better. I would not vote for the policy as it stands, neither would I vote for Corbyn and all that he stood and still stands for. Evil or Very Mad

Dee Coy Mon 22 May 2017, 12:02 pm

Winslow Boy wrote:
Dee Coy wrote:Where are the borrowing plans?

Jeremy Corbyn and his current Shadow Cabinet are not responsible for the actions of the Blairite New Labour government. Their's is, however, the only manifesto which has a cat in hell's chance of getting us out of the mess that Thatcher initiated in the 80s and governments since - both blue and pink but definitely NOT red - have perpetuated.

£10 minimum wage for everyone that's exactly what he wants. So I would have to drop down to compete, I think you've proven my point.

Labour Manifesto- read Fiction. Vote for me I'm going to give everybody a million pounds, Save the NHS, buy every body a house and pay all their bills.~~Build a factory on the moon and make cheese.~~ Oh sorry I'm unable to sustain economical growth so instead I will be borrowing more and more money and then spend spend spend until it runs out, and hope that the Tories can bale us out again. Don't be taken in by Corbyn, look at his past, who he supported, is this the man who is going to do right for this country.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/19/exclusive-mi5-opened-file-jeremy-corbyn-amid-concerns-ira-links/

There you go again, making things up. The salient word is 'minimum' . By your philosophy, every worker should be on the same minimum wage right now! Laughing

Once again I ask, please would you point me to where Labour intend borrowing within their manifesto?

Corbyn isn't saying everyone will be provided with a house. What he is saying is that he will increase their chances of being able to earn, save and afford one, while people will be able to activity contribute to the economy which will provide the means to shore up the NHS and public services. It's a holoistic manifesto, designed to kick-start the economy again and to give us all a future, not a series of sticking plasters which have no hope of bridging the caverns 30 years of Thatcher's legacy has left us with.

Other Western European countries employ very similar economic structures as to that proposed by Labour, they seem to be doing ok - Germany, Sweden, Norway?

**candyfloss** Mon 22 May 2017, 12:04 pm

Another half hearted U turn....

Conservatives climbdown over 'dementia tax' after backlash
Theresa May puts an "absolute limit" on the amount people must pay for social care following a "dementia tax" backlash.

http://news.sky.com/story/conservatives-climbdown-over-dementia-tax-after-backlash-10888708

Mimi Mon 22 May 2017, 12:08 pm

Thanks for clarifying `care in your own home` as opposed to `care in a care home` Candyfloss. I always thought `care in your own home` was means tested anyway - I would have thought it should be anyway. Care costs money and the NI stamp or taxes were/are never meant to cover it. Why should other tax payers have this burden - when your assets are only going to go to your kids when you die?

One of my sons is middle aged and both he and his partner have really good jobs, they work damned hard but have never been able to afford to buy and are still in rented. They have both said they are not going to bother to try and buy now because it will be in their interests, as they get old or ill, to have no assets.

I think we are one of the only countries that like to own the property we live in - most people abroad rent. Another thing to consider is whether the passing on of assets to your kids is a good thing or not. Is it good for them?

**candyfloss** Mon 22 May 2017, 12:22 pm

Mimi wrote:Thanks for clarifying `care in your own home` as opposed to `care in a care home` Candyfloss. I always thought `care in your own home` was means tested anyway - I would have thought it should be anyway. Care costs money and the NI stamp or taxes were/are never meant to cover it. Why should other tax payers have this burden - when your assets are only going to go to your kids when you die?

One of my sons is middle aged and both he and his partner have really good jobs, they work damned hard but have never been able to afford to buy and are still in rented. They have both said they are not going to bother to try and buy now because it will be in their interests, as they get old or ill, to have no assets.

I think we are one of the only countries that like to own the property we live in - most people abroad rent. Another thing to consider is whether the passing on of assets to your kids is a good thing or not. Is it good for them?

The bit in bold is what I am saying though Mimi, what is the point in working hard and trying to better yourself and passing you lifes work onto your family, as your sons say, why bother because it won't be in their interests. That is what life has always been about, families. What do we pay taxes and NI for? I believe it is time Jeremy Corbyn had a chance, he cannot do any worse than this lot. Look, already they are doing a U turn, you cannot believe anything they say.

Dee Coy Mon 22 May 2017, 12:36 pm

As for the IRA farce, your link is to the Telegraph, so I'll say no more about that.

What I will say is that Corbyn does have a proud history of negotiation to resolve conflict, and that means meeting people to debate. People with whom he is poles apart politically and morally.

He did play an active part in the IRA peace process. There is an interesting piece in the net where his staff member who worked for him during that period describes what happened (photo in new post below).

Corbyn was actually investigated thirty years ago following his debates with Sinn Fein (not! the IRA) and was fully exonerated. This pathetic regurgitation is merely a diversionary tactic from the hideous own goal that is the Dementia Tax.

Of course, for this and other interventions, Corbyn was awarded the Ghandi Foundation International Peace Award in 2013.

However, the Tories do not have such an exemplary record. Maria Gatland, a SITTING Tory councillor, was an active member of the Provisional IRA and the lover of one of its highest ranking chiefs, David O'Connell.

Dee Coy Mon 22 May 2017, 12:42 pm

Dee Coy Mon 22 May 2017, 12:43 pm

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/gandhifoundation.org/2014/01/09/the-gandhi-foundation-international-peace-award-2013/amp/

https://www.thecanary.co/2017/05/21/ignore-corbyn-supporting-ira-media-forgetting-tory-politician-member/

espeland Mon 22 May 2017, 12:56 pm

Anyone know if 'Andrew Neil Interviews Theresa May' tonight on BBC1 will be live? It will very interesting if it is Very Happy

Mimi Mon 22 May 2017, 2:54 pm

Regarding the IRA business, Jeremy must know his history and can appreciate peoples` grievances and how Ireland would never give up being Catholic, even after William the Conqueror and Henry VIII tried to convert them - they were always loyal to Rome. Later on, just like the Jews are doing in Palestine, the English sent loads of Protestant settlers over to Ireland and so the troubles began. Although no one condones violence and bombing of innocent people, Jeremy can probably see where the Republicans are coming from. Of course the British Empire is always seen as in the right throughout history. Any reasonable persons knows Jeremy would not have been `backing the IRA` - he would have been listening to both sides and understanding where they are coming from.

Winslow Boy Mon 22 May 2017, 4:48 pm

Dee Coy wrote:
Winslow Boy wrote:
Dee Coy wrote:Where are the borrowing plans?

Jeremy Corbyn and his current Shadow Cabinet are not responsible for the actions of the Blairite New Labour government. Their's is, however, the only manifesto which has a cat in hell's chance of getting us out of the mess that Thatcher initiated in the 80s and governments since - both blue and pink but definitely NOT red - have perpetuated.

£10 minimum wage for everyone that's exactly what he wants. So I would have to drop down to compete, I think you've proven my point.

Labour Manifesto- read Fiction. Vote for me I'm going to give everybody a million pounds, Save the NHS, buy every body a house and pay all their bills.~~Build a factory on the moon and make cheese.~~ Oh sorry I'm unable to sustain economical growth so instead I will be borrowing more and more money and then spend spend spend until it runs out, and hope that the Tories can bale us out again. Don't be taken in by Corbyn, look at his past, who he supported, is this the man who is going to do right for this country.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/19/exclusive-mi5-opened-file-jeremy-corbyn-amid-concerns-ira-links/

There you go again, making things up. The salient word is 'minimum' . By your philosophy, every worker should be on the same minimum wage right now!

Once again I ask, please would you point me to where Labour intend borrowing within their manifesto?

Corbyn isn't saying everyone will be provided with a house. What he is saying is that he will increase their chances of being able to earn, save and afford one, while people will be able to activity contribute to the economy which will provide the means to shore up the NHS and public services. It's a holoistic manifesto, designed to kick-start the economy again and to give us all a future, not a series of sticking plasters which have no hope of bridging the caverns 30 years of Thatcher's legacy has left us with.

Other Western European countries employ very similar economic structures as to that proposed by Labour, they seem to be doing ok - Germany, Sweden, Norway?

What am I making up, and that's not my philosophy. I clearly said that I would have to drop my wage to compete, thus wages will be less and so: "What he is saying is that he will increase their chances of being able to earn, save and afford one" would be nigh on impossible.

Ellie Bakers post- "one guy posted" No name ? one guy posted! sounds like the old- a close family member said, a member of the public said. C'mon back it up with real people. And I don't think we can ask Martin McGuiness unless we have a clairvoyant on this forum. How far back did you go to dig this up. Mad

The biggest clue is the creation of National Transformation Fund – which will be filled with £250billion of borrowed cash. This fund will be used to build new high-speed railways, and to “transform our energy systems.” affraid

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/labour-manifesto-corbyn-tax-renationalisation_uk_591adba1e4b05dd15f0b0e13

Go Sweden https://elgar.blog/2014/09/09/embracing-capitalism-the-real-success-of-swedens-universal-welfare-state/

Mimi Mon 22 May 2017, 4:55 pm

espeland wrote:Anyone know if 'Andrew Neil Interviews Theresa May' tonight on BBC1 will be live? It will very interesting if it is

Going by the TV listings it`s at 7pm (but not Wales). It says it`s going to be Theresa May.

Mimi Mon 22 May 2017, 5:11 pm

Not sure what a National Transformation Fund is. It seems to rely on investors, but I can`t see what an investor would get out of it.

nannygroves Mon 22 May 2017, 5:31 pm

[quote="Mimi"]It was National Insurance that was supposed to be for health and old age pension. We get and old age pension so we are benefiting from what we have paid in. As regards health, we have benefited all our lives from a basically free health service and will hopefully continue to do. We will still benefit from health care if and when we get ill in old age, including dementia.

No, no no and no again. It's free at the point of use. You have paid all your working life for it !!

Sponsored content

Who will win the General Election ?-