General Election Discussion - before and after the event

[quote="Dee Coy"][size=32]Winslow Boy: "Open the floodgates and bring in cheap labour. This undermines the current working class who can't compete, so their wage drops. So people become worse off, why bother to work then. So who is going to pay taxes, and who is going to lend us money now we haven't the means to pay it back? "[/size]



There, right there, is the current Tory policy for immigration and their disingenuous strategy of divide and rule of the working classes. 

It has NOTHING to do with Corbyn's plans which clearly state a £10 minimum wage for ALL employees, no undercutting and an even crack of the whip for all. It's a masterstroke, it will negate UKIP into the bargain 

How on earth can Corbyn put a cost on anything when he has no idea how many immigrants he will allow in to this country ? He just cannot give a straight answer when asked the question. Clearly more immigrants are going to raise the level of NHS, education and house building funding and please don't tell me that they will all be paying taxes because you know and I know, they won't all find taxable work. This was the big problem with free movement in the EU. It was impossible to cost anything.

LOL. And we've got over two weeks of this. Hara-kiri, I think.

nannygroves wrote:

Mimi wrote:It was National Insurance that was supposed to be for health and old age pension.  We get and old age pension so we are benefiting from what we have paid in.  As regards health, we have benefited all our lives from a basically free health service and will hopefully continue to do.   We will still benefit from health care if and when we get ill in old age, including dementia.



No, no no and no again. It's free at the point of use. You have paid all your working life for it !!

Yes, not free - you have paid in for it - I should not have used the word `free`. I was just trying to make the point that we have benefited from our NI stamp payments and that it was not meant to include Care.

For those are interested Andrew Neil is going to do them all this week - ending with Jeremy Corbyn on Friday.

Here is Theresa`s.

The real record of Theresa May. Those worried about immigration may want to take a red pen with them for the cross on 8 June. The article was written for the Tory-adoring Telegraph, so is all the more powerful for that. It was pulled after pressure from the formidable Team May (2nd link).

https://order-order.com/2016/07/02/read-full-article-pulled-telegraph-pressure-may-campaign/

https://order-order.com/2016/07/02/telegraph-pulled-article-critical-theresa-may-campaign-pressure/

In the run-up to the 2015 election, one of the handicaps David Cameron had to finesse was the fact that net migration to the UK was three times as high as he had promised it would be. Remarkably, none of the opprobrium this failure provoked brought forth the name of Theresa May, the cabinet minister actually entrusted with bringing migration down. Then, as now, it was as if the icy Home Secretary had a dark magic that warded off all critical scrutiny.

The fact that her lead role in this fiasco went unnoticed and unmentioned likely reflects Mrs May’s brilliant, all-consuming efforts to burnish her image with a view to become prime minister.
After all, Mrs May’s tenure as Home Secretary has been little better than disastrous – a succession of derelictions that has left Britain’s borders and coastline at least as insecure as they were in 2010, and which mean that British governments still rely on guesswork to estimate how many people enter and leave the country.

People find this hard to credit because she exudes determination and strength. Compared to many of her bland, flabby cabinet colleagues, she has real gravitas. And few who follow British politics would deny that she is a deadly political infighter. Indeed Theresa May is to Westminster what Cersei Lannister is to Westeros in Game of Thrones: no one who challenges her survives undamaged, while the welfare of the realm is of secondary concern.
Take the demoralised, underfunded UK Border Force. As the public discovered after a people-smugglers’ vessel ran aground in May, it has has only three cutters protecting 7,700 miles of coastline. Italy by contrast has 600 boats patrolling its 4722 miles.
Considering the impression Mrs May gives of being serious about security, it’s all the more astonishing that she has also allowed the UK’s small airfields to go unpatrolled – despite the vastly increased terrorist threat of the last few years, the onset of the migration crisis, and the emergence of smuggling networks that traffic people, drugs and arms.
Then there is the failure to establish exit checks at all the country’s airports and ports. These were supposed to be in place by March 2015.
Unfortunately the Border Force isn’t the only organisation under Mrs May’s control that is manifestly unfit for purpose. Recent years have seen a cavalcade of Home Office decisions about visas and deportations that suggest a department with a bizarre sense of the national interest.
The most infamous was the refusal of visas to Afghan interpreters who served with the British forces in Afghanistan – as Lord Guthrie said, a national shame.
Mrs May has kept so quiet about this and other scandals – such as the collapse of the eBorders IT system, at cost of almost a billion pounds – that you might imagine someone else was in charge the Home Office.
[It’s not just a matter of the odd error. Yvette Cooper pointed out in 2013 that despite Coalition rhetoric, the number of people refused entry to the UK had dropped by 50 per cent, the backlog of finding failed asylum seekers had gone up and the number of illegal immigrants deported had gone down.]
The reputation for effectiveness that Mrs May nevertheless enjoys derives from a single, endlessly cited event: the occasion in 2014 when she delivered some harsh truths to a conference of the Police Federation.
Unfortunately this was an isolated incident that, given the lack of any subsequent (or previous) effort at police reform, seems to have been intended mainly for public consumption.
In general Mrs May has avoided taking on the most serious institutional problems that afflict British policing. These include a disturbing willingness by some forces to let public relations concerns determine policing priorities, widespread overreliance on CCTV, the widespread propensity to massage crime numbers, the extreme risk aversion manifested during the London riots, and the preference for diverting police resources to patrol social media rather than the country’s streets.
There is also little evidence that Mrs May has paid much attention to the failure of several forces to protect vulnerable girls from the ethnically-motivated sexual predation seen in Rotherham and elsewhere. Nor, despite her supposed feminism, has Mrs May’s done much to ensure that girls from certain ethnic groups are protected from forced marriage and genital mutilation. But again, Mrs May has managed to evade criticism for this.
When considering her suitability for party leadership, it’s also worth remembering Mrs May’s notorious “lack of collegiality”.
David Laws’ memoirs paint a vivid picture of a secretive, rigid, controlling, even vengeful minister, so unpleasant to colleagues that a dread of meetings with her was something that cabinet members from both parties could bond over.
Unsurprisingly, Mrs May’s overwhelming concern with taking credit and deflecting blame made for a difficult working relationship with her department, just as her propensity for briefing the press against cabinet colleagues made her its most disliked member in two successive governments.
It is possible that Mrs May’s intimidating ruthlessness could make her the right person to negotiate with EU leaders. However, there’s little in her record to suggest she possesses either strong negotiation skills or the ability to win allies among other leaders, unlike Michael Gove, of whom David Laws wrote “it was possible to disagree with him but impossible to dislike him,”
It’s surely about time – and not too late – for conservatives to look behind Mrs May’s carefully-wrought image and consider if she really is the right person to lead the party and the country.
There’s a vast gulf between being effective in office, and being effective at promoting yourself; it’s not one that Theresa May has yet crossed.

Another Tory Manifesto U-turn coming?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/conservatives-primary-school-breakfasts-back-track-election-2017-manifesto-pledge-a7753311.html


Conservatives admit they don't know how much school breakfasts pledge will cost

Party admits it does not know how much it will cost to provide breakfasts for all 4.62 million primary school children in England

This is the second time the party have backtracked on a manifesto policy in the past week, following a dramatic U-turn on the 'dementia tax' on Monday

The Conservative Party has reportedly admitted it has no idea how much money it will cost to provide free school breakfasts to every primary school pupil in England.

In her manifesto last week, Theresa May announced plans to replace universal lunchtime meals for infants with free breakfasts for every pupil up to the age of 11.

The party said the move would save millions of pounds, calculating the cost of providing breakfasts alone at just £60m.

But officials have now admitted to Schools Week that the cost "will vary, depending on how many pupils at any given school take up this offer".



Tory pledge to provide free school breakfasts 'costed at 7p per meal'

Critics had queried the £60m figure, with analysis by the weekly newspaper finding the party’s original costings would mean giving schools the equivalent of just 6.8p per pupil to pay for breakfasts.

Experts said that in reality at least three times that amount was needed in order to provide a healthy meal for all 4.62 million primary school children across the country.

Backtracking on previous statements made, the party is now refusing to confirm the correct amount set out in the plans.

Education Datalab analysis confirmed that even if only half the nation’s primary school children were to take up the offer, the meals would have to cost less than 13.6p each.

Overall, a more likely cost for the policy would come to around £400m.

Theresa May’s plan to end free school lunches earned her the title of “lunch snatcher”, with the Education Policy Institute suggesting the move could cost more than one million of the country’s poorest families.

The Conservatives said children from disadvantaged backgrounds would continue to get free hot lunches – as well as free breakfasts – throughout their education.

They argued that evidence showed that breakfast is as effective at helping children to learn at school as a hot lunch, while being delivered at a tenth of the cost – supposedly at about £60m a year.

I wonder if this is going to boil down to who is the least worst option,Corbynn or May.Trump for president!,Leicester to win the title! the brexit vote! and now a Corbynn win,don't bank against it folks.

Why's he called Robin Corbyn there I wonder?

Freedom wrote:Why's he called Robin Corbyn there I wonder?

Don`t know - typical journo getting things wrong I expect.

Did you notice the beige jumper (he says his Mum knitted) - it looked like it had been rescued from a pile of laundry and still creased. Anyway good on him.

I hope he does well in 2 weeks time.

Don`t hold out much hope for a change here - it`s always been flipping Tory.

Don`t hold out much hope for a change here

Questions to Theresa this afternoon included the statement that Labour are now only 5% behind. And two weeks to go. Last week they were 9% behind.

Mimi, I've realised that the reporter was probably thinking of Robin Cook who was also quite scruffy at times I think.

Freedom wrote:Mimi, I've realised that the reporter was probably thinking of Robin Cook who was also quite scruffy at times I think.

You`re probably right there Freedom.

@ espeland - so there might be some hope then, particularly as we`ve had a new MP for the last year or so that doesn`t seem half as impressive as our last one.

I`m still undecided. I want to go for JC but I don`t think he`ll improve the immigration situation which is my main concern. If he takes over the Brexit negotiations, I bet free movement of people will continue. I could be wrong.

I think that's Michael Foot who appears in that clip at around 1.15 but doesn't he remind you of a certain Mr B!

I`m still undecided. I want to go for JC but I don`t think he`ll improve the immigration situation which is my main concern. If he takes over the Brexit negotiations, I bet free movement of people will continue. I could be wrong.

I don't know about the situation re immigration from EU if he becomes PM, but he is talking of allowing immigration by those who will benefit the UK - doctors, nurses, engineers etc. Stopping those who would be general labourers will help protect the salaries of low-paid UK citizens.

Freedom wrote:I think that's Michael Foot who appears in that clip at around 1.15 but doesn't he remind you of a certain Mr B!

I think it`s just the glasses Freedom. Mr. Foot has lots more hair !

espeland wrote:

I`m still undecided. I want to go for JC but I don`t think he`ll improve the immigration situation which is my main concern. If he takes over the Brexit negotiations, I bet free movement of people will continue. I could be wrong.

I don't know about the situation re immigration from EU if he becomes PM, but he is talking of allowing immigration by those who will benefit the UK - doctors, nurses, engineers etc. Stopping those who would be general labourers will help protect the salaries of low-paid UK citizens.

Well if Jeremy Hunt was fair to our doctors and paid our nurses properly we wouldn`t need to bring in all sorts from abroad (and Agencies) whose customs and values are different from ours and who I can never understand what they`re trying to communicate.  I have had 3 very stressful dealings with non-British medics in the past and if I get one more I am going to insist on an English one. Mind you the only registrar that understood my thyroid problem (and spoke very good English) was a lady registrar from Romania !  BTW Imagine waking up from an operation and seeing a niqab or burka clad nurse.

Yes, you'd think that you'd died and gone to the other place if you woke and saw what look like mobile rubbish sacks!

I'm having enough problems trying to communicate with the builders in the flat upstairs after several water leaks - not being able to communicate with medical staff on what could be life or death issues is certainly no joke.

Maybe we should start a thread on multiculturalism and whether it works or not.

Leftist thinking is more sympathetic to diversity which outwardly seems a `nice` `kind` thing.

But it has many problems.

I used to work with an absolutely gorgeous, beautiful fellow from Zimbabwe who was from an agency - only trouble was, staff could not understand him, plus the clients just lost patience. He was so lovely, kind, understanding, an all round beautiful person. But we had to let him go.

What I`m trying to say is it doesn`t always work.

I watched the interviews this morning, what a joke, the way he treated the two women..



Curious‏ @myviewontopic · 1h1 hour ago

#Marr has a nice cosy chat with Amber Rudd after spending 20 minutes trying to smear Dianne Abbott.

The Supreme Leader doesn’t seem quite so invincible now


The Conservatives’ relentless focus on Mrs May has advertised her deficiencies to a wider audience

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/27/theresa-may-leader-conservatives-focus-deficiencies?CMP=share_btn_tw

Trotskee‏ @Leonmexico40 · 2h2 hours ago

#Marr You're using BBC platform to spout your evil smears of Corbyn. He's no more linked to terrorism than anyone who's spoken to Sinn Fein.

ian‏ @ian1954 · 2h2 hours ago

#marr so Abbotts not allowed to make a U turn after 35 years whilst May is U turning every other day, give me strength !!!