Re: The strange case of Robert Murat

Tristar Thu 20 Nov 2014, 3:02 pm

caricature wrote:Did Amaral mention Murat in the truth book.

Take your pick:

You know that man?

- Yes, he presented himself to the GNR on Friday morning and offered his services as an interpreter. He is of English origin but speaks good Portuguese. He's called Robert Murat.

As the law demands, all foreign people interviewed by the police must have the benefit of an interpreter. In this investigation, the considerable number of interviews we had to conduct in record time forced us to call on the services of volunteers.

- And this guy, you checked him out? No criminal record or trouble with the law?

- No, no, it's all OK, but I didn't know he lived here. It's true that his house is on the route taken by the abductor.

- Stay here, carry on being friendly with him; I'm going to Portimão to see what we've got on him: we've got to find out more about this guy.

I immediately telephone the team to alert them. The Director of the Department of Criminal Investigation in Faro has to be involved in a meeting the same morning, where we will discuss the case of Robert Murat. We decide to request the latter's help again in order not to lose sight of him. We must act with the utmost speed, because Madeleine could be in one of the houses he has access to. The investigators continue to check the information we have about him. He is English, aged 33 and is separated from his wife. The latter lives in Great Britain with their daughter; the latter is nearly the same age as Madeleine and looks like her. The English journalist to whom he gave this information during an interview was immediately distrusting of him and the reasons that motivated him to help the police. Murat has lived with his mother in Vila da Luz for several years, but he goes to England regularly. Back from his last stay in Exeter on May 1st, he has to return there on the 9th. He is ready to postpone his departure, desirous above all, he states, of helping the police to find Madeleine.

His behaviour starts to seriously intrigue us. He often makes reference to similar cases that happened in the United Kingdom and which he seems to know in detail. He displays suspicious curiosity and seeks to know more. He offers to help us identify possible suspects. He knows the workings of the Ocean Club and the habits of the holiday-makers very well. He even, allegedly, tried secretly to access the investigation files. It is also known that he visits web sites of a pornographic nature.

Guest Thu 20 Nov 2014, 3:06 pm

Tristar wrote:
caricature wrote:Did Amaral mention Murat in the truth book.

Take your pick:

You know that man?

- Yes, he presented himself to the GNR on Friday morning and offered his services as an interpreter. He is of English origin but speaks good Portuguese. He's called Robert Murat.

As the law demands, all foreign people interviewed by the police must have the benefit of an interpreter. In this investigation, the considerable number of interviews we had to conduct in record time forced us to call on the services of volunteers.

- And this guy, you checked him out? No criminal record or trouble with the law?

- No, no, it's all OK, but I didn't know he lived here. It's true that his house is on the route taken by the abductor.

- Stay here, carry on being friendly with him; I'm going to Portimão to see what we've got on him: we've got to find out more about this guy.

I immediately telephone the team to alert them. The Director of the Department of Criminal Investigation in Faro has to be involved in a meeting the same morning, where we will discuss the case of Robert Murat. We decide to request the latter's help again in order not to lose sight of him. We must act with the utmost speed, because Madeleine could be in one of the houses he has access to. The investigators continue to check the information we have about him. He is English, aged 33 and is separated from his wife. The latter lives in Great Britain with their daughter; the latter is nearly the same age as Madeleine and looks like her. The English journalist to whom he gave this information during an interview was immediately distrusting of him and the reasons that motivated him to help the police. Murat has lived with his mother in Vila da Luz for several years, but he goes to England regularly. Back from his last stay in Exeter on May 1st, he has to return there on the 9th. He is ready to postpone his departure, desirous above all, he states, of helping the police to find Madeleine.

His behaviour starts to seriously intrigue us. He often makes reference to similar cases that happened in the United Kingdom and which he seems to know in detail. He displays suspicious curiosity and seeks to know more. He offers to help us identify possible suspects. He knows the workings of the Ocean Club and the habits of the holiday-makers very well. He even, allegedly, tried secretly to access the investigation files. It is also known that he visits web sites of a pornographic nature.

Thanks Tristar.
I wonder if he deliberately drew attention,look here not over there,
not sure why the porno bit is interesting unless it is of a less than adult genre.

Tristar Thu 20 Nov 2014, 3:07 pm

caricature wrote:
Tristar wrote:
caricature wrote:Did Amaral mention Murat in the truth book.

Take your pick:

You know that man?

- Yes, he presented himself to the GNR on Friday morning and offered his services as an interpreter. He is of English origin but speaks good Portuguese. He's called Robert Murat.

As the law demands, all foreign people interviewed by the police must have the benefit of an interpreter. In this investigation, the considerable number of interviews we had to conduct in record time forced us to call on the services of volunteers.

- And this guy, you checked him out? No criminal record or trouble with the law?

- No, no, it's all OK, but I didn't know he lived here. It's true that his house is on the route taken by the abductor.

- Stay here, carry on being friendly with him; I'm going to Portimão to see what we've got on him: we've got to find out more about this guy.

I immediately telephone the team to alert them. The Director of the Department of Criminal Investigation in Faro has to be involved in a meeting the same morning, where we will discuss the case of Robert Murat. We decide to request the latter's help again in order not to lose sight of him. We must act with the utmost speed, because Madeleine could be in one of the houses he has access to. The investigators continue to check the information we have about him. He is English, aged 33 and is separated from his wife. The latter lives in Great Britain with their daughter; the latter is nearly the same age as Madeleine and looks like her. The English journalist to whom he gave this information during an interview was immediately distrusting of him and the reasons that motivated him to help the police. Murat has lived with his mother in Vila da Luz for several years, but he goes to England regularly. Back from his last stay in Exeter on May 1st, he has to return there on the 9th. He is ready to postpone his departure, desirous above all, he states, of helping the police to find Madeleine.

His behaviour starts to seriously intrigue us. He often makes reference to similar cases that happened in the United Kingdom and which he seems to know in detail. He displays suspicious curiosity and seeks to know more. He offers to help us identify possible suspects. He knows the workings of the Ocean Club and the habits of the holiday-makers very well. He even, allegedly, tried secretly to access the investigation files. It is also known that he visits web sites of a pornographic nature.

Thanks Tristar.

anytime buddy

Mimi Thu 20 Nov 2014, 3:09 pm

I`ve always had a niggle in the back of my mind about the JWs. I know they do their own thing when it comes to justice - leaving it to Jehovah ! They keep all scandals secret.

It`s not a recent concern of mine as - I`ve worked with many people who are severely mentally ill as a consequence of a JW or other punitive religious upbringing. I must say also that I have met some really beautiful people who are JWs, so I`m not criticising the whole brigade.

Child abuse by any JW parent is covered up by the elders.

Andrew Thu 20 Nov 2014, 3:11 pm

Snipped from the bottom of Tristar's post..

'He even, allegedly, tried secretly to access the investigation files'.

Didn't know that. I wonder what motivated him to do that then..... (allegedly).

chirpyinsect Thu 20 Nov 2014, 3:12 pm

Don't Forget Madeleine wrote:I've just had a thought regarding GM's and RM's phones been switched on and off at the same time on 2nd May, could RM have lent his phone to GM during the week for someone else to use as a friendly gesture if GM needed a phone for some reason, RM being known around the resort for "helping people out" and the person "to go to" if anything is needed. RM lending his phone at the time may not have seemed out of the ordinary to him to help out Brits on holiday who had mobiles but didn't take their chargers with them. Perhaps RM lent his phone to GM through a third party so the two of them didn't actually meet.

It may seem a stupid idea but just something I've never thought of before.

Would he not have mentioned that when questioned as arguido as I think a lot of the case for his status was due to the PJ studying the phone records? He would have been more likely to have offered to help them get new phones but I think someone called Stephen -a relation? had already done that.

Helenmeg Thu 20 Nov 2014, 3:14 pm

Andrew wrote:There is no way that Gerry, Kate and the rest of the Tapas group could dispose a body on holiday without it ever being found imo.

They would needed 'outside' help from somewhere imo.

Someone who knew the area and knew it well.

Question is - who was that person ?

Well amongst other, we have John Geraghty - an interesting character - he was happy to take charge of the hire car and garage it (whilst perhaps giving it a thoroughly good clean).

I always got the impression, perhaps wrongly, that RM was a bit of a Misfit in society - therefore he may have jumped at the chance to ingratiate himself with the wealthy ex pats etc - and join the clan..

Tristar Thu 20 Nov 2014, 3:19 pm

Mimi wrote:I`ve always had a niggle in the back of my mind about the JWs. I know they do their own thing when it comes to justice - leaving it to Jehovah ! They keep all scandals secret.

It`s not a recent concern of mine as - I`ve worked with many people who are severely mentally ill as a consequence of a JW or other punitive religious upbringing. I must say also that I have met some really beautiful people who are JWs, so I`m not criticising the whole brigade.

Child abuse by any JW parent is covered up by the elders.

Mum was a senior nurse (matron) caring for multiple disabled blind children

JW obviously don't allow medical procedures that would invariably cause blood loss

Mum had those procedures carried out regardless

The children lived

Good on mum - and death to stone age cults of the absurd

Guest Thu 20 Nov 2014, 3:23 pm

Tristar wrote:If I was in a legal pickle in Portugal

I'd much rather be an arguido than a witness

But the UK MSM failed and continues to fail, explaining this important difference

'Suspect' - sells newspapers - 'Persons of interest' is a bit meh

I don't think we can rely on Gerry's translation, Tristar. The root of the word 'arguido' is much closer to 'suspect' than 'interest'.
I believe it has a closer relationship with 'not trusting a person' that's according to my Portuguese neighbour.
I wouldn't take the BBC's word for it either.

Tristar Thu 20 Nov 2014, 3:24 pm

Tigger wrote:
Tristar wrote:If I was in a legal pickle in Portugal

I'd much rather be an arguido than a witness

But the UK MSM failed and continues to fail, explaining this important difference

'Suspect' - sells newspapers - 'Persons of interest' is a bit meh

I don't think we can rely on Gerry's translation, Tristar. The root of the word 'arguido' is much closer to 'suspect' than 'interest'.
I believe it has a closer relationship with 'not trusting a person' .

your view - and it's respected

Guest Thu 20 Nov 2014, 3:24 pm

chirpyinsect wrote:
Don't Forget Madeleine wrote:I've just had a thought regarding GM's and RM's phones been switched on and off at the same time on 2nd May, could RM have lent his phone to GM during the week for someone else to use as a friendly gesture if GM needed a phone for some reason, RM being known around the resort for "helping people out" and the person "to go to" if anything is needed. RM lending his phone at the time may not have seemed out of the ordinary to him to help out Brits on holiday who had mobiles but didn't take their chargers with them. Perhaps RM lent his phone to GM through a third party so the two of them didn't actually meet.

It may seem a stupid idea but just something I've never thought of before.

Would he not have mentioned that when questioned as arguido as I think a lot of the case for his status was due to the PJ studying the phone records? He would have been more likely to have offered to help them get new phones but I think someone called Stephen -a relation? had already done that.

I did think about that when I was typing the post but I suppose he could have had some reason for not revealing it at the time, i.e. he didn't want to get more implicated than he was as having had all the Tapas lot pointing fingers at him, perhaps he was more "helpful" to the McCanns than has been revealed by the PJ. I don't know really, perhaps it was a stupid idea of mine but just something that crossed my mind.

Guest Thu 20 Nov 2014, 3:30 pm

Trouble is that we can't believe that none of them thought to take their chargers with them.
That I find very unlikely. They'd have taken chargers for e.g. razors, toothbrushes? imo.

Porkies, I believe... Rolling Eyes

Andrew Thu 20 Nov 2014, 3:31 pm

Helenmeg wrote:
Andrew wrote:There is no way that Gerry, Kate and the rest of the Tapas group could dispose a body on holiday without it ever being found imo.

They would needed 'outside' help from somewhere imo.

Someone who knew the area and knew it well.

Question is - who was that person ?

Well amongst other, we have John Geraghty - an interesting character - he was happy to take charge of the hire car and garage it (whilst perhaps giving it a thoroughly good clean).

I always got the impression, perhaps wrongly, that RM was a bit of a Misfit in society - therefore he may have jumped at the chance to ingratiate himself with the wealthy ex pats etc - and join the clan..

Did Geraghty know the Mccanns before May 2007 does anyone know?

Did Geraghty know Murat does anyone know?

Guest Thu 20 Nov 2014, 3:43 pm

Tigger wrote:Trouble is that we can't believe that none of them thought to take their chargers with them.
That I find very unlikely. They'd have taken chargers for e.g. razors, toothbrushes? imo.

Porkies, I believe...

That's true but may be they didn't expect anything to go wrong (having charged up their phones before they went to PDL) and didn't envisage having to make numerous phone calls to all and sundry day after day to get them out of a mess they didn't anticipate.

When I go away I find it a pain to take numerous chargers, I usually charge up my toothbrush before I go but take an ordinary one with me, just in case. Chargers can be quite heavy so I try not to take them for different appliances if I can help it. Of course there is also the different power supply problem and having to take adapters as well (more junk to pack/carry).

Anyway, my post re RM's phone is probably irrelevant so best ignore it. Smile

Helenmeg Thu 20 Nov 2014, 4:10 pm

Andrew wrote:
Helenmeg wrote:
Andrew wrote:There is no way that Gerry, Kate and the rest of the Tapas group could dispose a body on holiday without it ever being found imo.

They would needed 'outside' help from somewhere imo.

Someone who knew the area and knew it well.

Question is - who was that person ?

Well amongst other, we have John Geraghty - an interesting character - he was happy to take charge of the hire car and garage it (whilst perhaps giving it a thoroughly good clean).

I always got the impression, perhaps wrongly, that RM was a bit of a Misfit in society - therefore he may have jumped at the chance to ingratiate himself with the wealthy ex pats etc - and join the clan..

Did Geraghty know the Mccanns before May 2007 does anyone know?

Did Geraghty know Murat does anyone know?

There are some strong links through Rothley Park Golf Club of which Gerry was a member. J Geraghty was a Leicester Business man and a golfer. Rothley Park Golf club is THE GOLF CLUb in and around Leicester for the 'cream of society'.. that man who hired the same hire car as Gerry (forget his name) was also a member of RPGC.

Guest Thu 20 Nov 2014, 4:15 pm

Don't Forget Madeleine wrote:
Tigger wrote:Trouble is that we can't believe that none of them thought to take their chargers with them.
That I find very unlikely. They'd have taken chargers for e.g. razors, toothbrushes? imo.

Porkies, I believe...

That's true but may be they didn't expect anything to go wrong (having charged up their phones before they went to PDL) and didn't envisage having to make numerous phone calls to all and sundry day after day to get them out of a mess they didn't anticipate.

When I go away I find it a pain to take numerous chargers, I usually charge up my toothbrush before I go but take an ordinary one with me, just in case. Chargers can be quite heavy so I try not to take them for different appliances if I can help it. Of course there is also the different power supply problem and having to take adapters as well (more junk to pack/carry).

Anyway, my post re RM's phone is probably irrelevant so best ignore it.

No it's not irrelevant. In fact Kiko is convinced that Gerry had the use of Murat's landline on the afternoon of the 3rd I believe. Have a look at the telephone lists in the reference section.

Re the chargers. In 2007 you had to charge phones a lot more often iirc. The chargers aren't really heavy and they'd also need an adaptor for all the electrics.

bellisa Thu 20 Nov 2014, 4:16 pm

Ken walkden helen meg... to me its just a coincidence though.

bellisa Thu 20 Nov 2014, 4:19 pm

Tigger I would think that phones needed to be charged a lot less in 2007, smart phones etc use a lot of battery quickly but they weren't so popular back then.

Has kiko joined here? Would love to see his posts, like blacksmith he seems to be well informed and is onto something.

Guest Thu 20 Nov 2014, 4:21 pm

Just a thought,wasn't there a guy who went on to Murats property in the dead of night with ground radar gear,was this ever properly looked into and did Murat have an explanation to what was claimed at the time.

seahorse Thu 20 Nov 2014, 4:26 pm

caricature wrote:Just a thought,wasn't there a guy who went on to Murats property in the dead of night with ground radar gear,was this ever properly looked into and did Murat have an explanation to what was claimed at the time.

That was Stephen Birch. More on him here:

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id413.html

Bit of a nutcase imo.

Andrew Thu 20 Nov 2014, 4:29 pm

seahorse wrote:
caricature wrote:Just a thought,wasn't there a guy who went on to Murats property in the dead of night with ground radar gear,was this ever properly looked into and did Murat have an explanation to what was claimed at the time.

That was Stephen Birch. More on him here:

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id413.html

Bit of a nutcase imo.

I'm sure I saw on Twitter not so long back that Stephen Birch has been outed as part of Team Mccann....

Don't think I dreamt it but maybe a twitterer can confirm....

Helenmeg Thu 20 Nov 2014, 4:30 pm

bellisa wrote:Ken walkden helen meg... to me its just a coincidence though.

Yes - I agree
I think there were frequent golfing trips and strong golfing links between RPGC and the Algarve gold clubs. The pro at RPGC Danny Spillane had been sent out to be a pro
at one of the golf cluibs near Praia de Luz. Three Leicester business men had set up a business promoting property / leisure / golfing in the Algarve - Vigia Group.
I think that there was a steady stream of golfers going out to Portugal - and probably there are business / golfing links. There seemed to be plenty of money to be made developing golf / luxury resorts in the Algarve and this had been seized upon by some Leicester business men.

So no real surprise that the same hire car got used on these trips ...

seahorse Thu 20 Nov 2014, 4:31 pm

Andrew wrote:
seahorse wrote:
caricature wrote:Just a thought,wasn't there a guy who went on to Murats property in the dead of night with ground radar gear,was this ever properly looked into and did Murat have an explanation to what was claimed at the time.

That was Stephen Birch. More on him here:

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id413.html

Bit of a nutcase imo.

I'm sure I saw on Twitter not so long back that Stephen Birch has been outed as part of Team Mccann....

Don't think I dreamt it but maybe a twitterer can confirm....

Now that would be very interesting indeed.
He did put up his own money to go to Portugal from what I recall.

Didn't he also get a letter from Murat's lawyer?

Guest Thu 20 Nov 2014, 4:35 pm

seahorse wrote:
caricature wrote:Just a thought,wasn't there a guy who went on to Murats property in the dead of night with ground radar gear,was this ever properly looked into and did Murat have an explanation to what was claimed at the time.

That was Stephen Birch. More on him here:

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id413.html

Bit of a nutcase imo.

I see it mentioned Murat suing Birch,wonder if it was carried through.

nobodythereeither Thu 20 Nov 2014, 4:35 pm

Andrew wrote:There is no way that Gerry, Kate and the rest of the Tapas group could dispose a body on holiday without it ever being found imo.

Very sorry to be so grim, but there were several doctors in the group.

Don't want to go into details, but maybe you get my drift pale

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