Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Heisenburg Mon 17 Oct 2016, 12:29 pm

Something that Ben obviously had with him,clothing perchance or indeed the sandals.

**Freedom** Mon 17 Oct 2016, 12:31 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-37676268#"

froggy Mon 17 Oct 2016, 12:34 pm

So, professional belief. No actual proof to support that belief.

Andrew Mon 17 Oct 2016, 12:37 pm

Heisenburg wrote:
chrissie wrote:
Andrew wrote:Was it those 2 car toys I wonder that disappeared with him...?

Not sure how finding that (or anything else) belonging to Ben 25 years later proves he died and that Dino was responsible...?

Nor me. Could it be something to do with the sandals?

Something that Ben obviously had with him,clothing perchance or indeed the sandals.

Yeah, but what does that really prove though if they did indeed find his sandals?

It doesn't prove that Ben died.

chrissie Mon 17 Oct 2016, 12:37 pm

froggy wrote:So, professional belief. No actual proof to support that belief.

Unless not all information has been released, I'm not sure how Kerry can just accept that. I'm not sure I would.

Inca Mon 17 Oct 2016, 12:38 pm

I'm finding it hard to believe, no closure at all the for the family, nothing definite just guess work? So sad.

chrissie Mon 17 Oct 2016, 12:38 pm

Andrew wrote:
Heisenburg wrote:
chrissie wrote:
Andrew wrote:Was it those 2 car toys I wonder that disappeared with him...?

Not sure how finding that (or anything else) belonging to Ben 25 years later proves he died and that Dino was responsible...?

Nor me. Could it be something to do with the sandals?

Something that Ben obviously had with him,clothing perchance or indeed the sandals.

Yeah, but what does that really prove though if they did indeed find his sandals?

It doesn't prove that Ben died.

My thinking too. I just replied the same to froggy.

Andrew Mon 17 Oct 2016, 12:42 pm

I'm just finding all this utterly bizarre.

It's just not making sense. At all.

bluebell Mon 17 Oct 2016, 12:43 pm

https://www.facebook.com/calendarnews/#

So they have something that was in Ben's possession that day and it was found at site 2 next to a 'dated item' from 1991?

TheTruthWillOut Mon 17 Oct 2016, 12:45 pm

Andrew wrote:Was it those 2 car toys I wonder that disappeared with him...?

Not sure how finding that (or anything else) belonging to Ben 25 years later proves he died and that Dino was responsible...?

Exactly. The cars are only something Christine would know about anyway. Eddie only knew of these (and Ben wetting himself) on the 10 year Somebody Knows doc. Making the find right at the end of the dig at 2-3 feet under ground level? when the site was said to be 30 years old doesn't compute, either.

Sorry but this 'conclusion' is far too convenient and indirectly calls those at the farmhouse that day liars. Kerry's book, blog and the two docs on youtube all show the glaring contradictions.

Interesting that DI Cousins was on his own again. I thought this briefing would be in Kos police station shoulder to shoulder with their colleagues.

I could go in to a lot more detail here but I just don't have the energy now.

Andrew Mon 17 Oct 2016, 12:45 pm

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/detectives-find-item-belonging-ben-9061983

froggy Mon 17 Oct 2016, 12:55 pm

The cars are meaningless as they could have been left on the ground and scooped up at some later time when the ground was being cleared.
Something he was wearing, like T shirt or sandals would be rather different.

bluebell Mon 17 Oct 2016, 12:57 pm

Finding something Ben had in his possession that day at site 2 surely only proves soil etc from the farmhouse was dumped there, nothing more than that?

If it were a toy he could have dropped that anyway, it isn't proof is it?
Would it be impossible to find any of his remains after all this time. Poor Kerry, this must be "the worst news"
imo.

@ froggy - X post sorry.

eta - SURELY they can't just leave the investigation there ?

Andrew Mon 17 Oct 2016, 12:58 pm

froggy wrote:
TheTruthWillOut wrote:
Andrew wrote:Was it those 2 car toys I wonder that disappeared with him...?

Not sure how finding that (or anything else) belonging to Ben 25 years later proves he died and that Dino was responsible...?

Exactly. The cars are only something Christine would know about anyway. Eddie only knew of these (and Ben wetting himself) on the 10 year Somebody Knows doc. Making the find right at the end of the dig at 2-3 feet under ground level? when the site was said to be 30 years old doesn't compute, either.

Sorry but this 'conclusion' is far too convenient and indirectly calls those at the farmhouse that day liars. Kerry's book, blog and the two docs on youtube all show the glaring contradictions.

Interesting that DI Cousins was on his own again. I thought this briefing would be in Kos police station shoulder to shoulder with their colleagues.

I could go in to a lot more detail here but I just don't have the energy now.

The cars are meaningless as they could have been left on the ground and scooped up at some later time when the ground was being cleared.
Something he was wearing, like T shirt or sandals would be rather different.

The same logic could apply for a T shirt or sandals.

I'm sure a toddler could take off said items...

Andrew Mon 17 Oct 2016, 1:02 pm

South Yorkshire Police
51 mins ·
UPDATE: Operation Ben excavation work in Kos draws to a close

On 24 July 1991, 21-month-old Ben Needham disappeared from a farmhouse in the Iraklis area of Kos, Greece.

Since that day, a worldwide and very complex investigation has taken place and South Yorkshire Police have been supporting Ben’s family in their search for answers.

This work has intensified in the last 19 months when a Home Office funded team was dedicated to Operation Ben, resulting in a three-week search of two sites on the island.

The searches have been targeted, and of the highest forensic integrity. After 3,600 hours of work physically digging and 1,200 tonnes of material sifted, this phase of the operation has now ended. The team will soon return to the UK, along with some of the items recovered during the search.

Detective Inspector Jon Cousins, the Senior Investigating Officer in Operation Ben, said: “During the course of the enquiries we have made over the last 19 months, we have closed off a large number of theories about what happened to Ben, many of which have been open for over 20 years.

“However, based on the information that I have now, as a result of an extensive and thorough investigation, it is without doubt that the current line of enquiry is the most probable cause for Ben’s disappearance.

“My team and I know that machinery, including a large digger, was used to clear an area of land on 24 July 1991, behind the farmhouse that was being renovated by the Needham’s. It is my professional belief that Ben Needham died as a result of an accident near to the farmhouse in Iraklis where he was last seen playing.

“The events leading up to and following that incident have been explored by my team of experts to great lengths. The fact that we have not had a direct result during this visit to Kos does not preclude the facts that we know to be true.

“An item found on Saturday, which I have shown personally to some of Ben’s family, was found in one of the targeted areas at the second site, very close to a dated item from 1991.

“It is our initial understanding that this item was in Ben’s possession around the time he went missing.

“The recovery of this item, and its location, further adds to my belief that material was removed from the farmhouse on or shortly after the day that Ben disappeared.

“Ben’s family have been provided with a full and thorough account of the events which we know to have taken place and also the speculations that we have been able to discount. Our thoughts are with the family as they are given time to digest this and they have our full and continued support.

“Our drive has always been the family, and their welfare. Ben's family have never given up on the team and I am incredibly thankful for their constant inspiration.

“We are also grateful to the current Greek authorities for their assistance, and the help received from the Home Office and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office has been vital in allowing the team to continue getting answers for a family in need.

“We remain committed to the investigation and it will not simply close; myself and Detective Superintendent Matt Fenwick will retain ownership of it and if new information comes to light, we will investigate it thoroughly. We will not stop in our quest to find further answers for Ben’s family.”

chrissie Mon 17 Oct 2016, 1:04 pm

I'm just wondering why they had a replica made of the sandals he was wearing

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ben-needham-cops-resume-search-8955119

dogs don't lie Mon 17 Oct 2016, 1:05 pm

chrissie wrote:I'm just wondering why they had a replica made of the sandals he was wearing

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ben-needham-cops-resume-search-8955119

You know I thought exactly the same when they were being made, why would that have to be done?

Bampots Mon 17 Oct 2016, 1:06 pm

What a heartache for the family.... just who are these policemen looking after.....their own resources by closure ?,because it certainly doesnt seem to be Kerry whose intèvè....she has been put through the Mill....can we expect similar treatment of the McCanns? Will they dash their hope of finding Maddie alive......or is it a plan for endgame?

froggy Mon 17 Oct 2016, 1:34 pm

“My team and I know that machinery, including a large digger, was used to clear an area of land on 24 July 1991, behind the farmhouse that was being renovated by the Needham’s. It is my professional belief that Ben Needham died as a result of an accident near to the farmhouse in Iraklis where he was last seen playing."

The wording is interesting because it doesn't indicate what sort of accident, nor does it state outright that the digger was involved. Readers are led, by implication, to the idea that the digger operator was to blame, even though they don't actually say that.
A convenient ending for the police.

I wonder how many will actually believe that?

**candyfloss** Mon 17 Oct 2016, 2:21 pm

Updated recently. The pictures of Kerry and family are truly heartbreaking Crying or Very sad

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/detectives-find-item-belonging-ben-9061983

Andrew Mon 17 Oct 2016, 3:02 pm

Will they ever announce what this particular item of interest is then, that in there view confirms Ben is dead...?

If I was Kerry then I'd be demanding them to pick up their tools and going over it again. Or literally doing it myself.

How can they find something of 'significant interest' but then just to wrap it all up without continuing further...?

Andrew Mon 17 Oct 2016, 3:07 pm

First I've heard of this.... Has anyone else?

Snipped:

British investigators are still searching for the JCB digger that they believe ran over and killed Ben.
DI Cousins told MailOnline: 'We have not been able to find Dinos' [Barkas] digger. The digger left the island six or seven years ago.
'It was taken to [Greek commercial port] Piraeus where there are over a dozen building plant firms.
'Dinos sold it in a part exchange for another newer digger. It would have been recommissioned and sold on. Even a 30 year old JCB digger is worth more than €30,000.
'We thought we had traced it to Egypt but it was not Dinos' digger. 'We are still looking for it.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3842412/I-t-say-goodbye-knowing-s-Mother-missing-Ben-Needham-says-want-tear-Greek-island-search-son-closes.html

TheTruthWillOut Mon 17 Oct 2016, 3:41 pm

It would mean what is said this Mirror article is completely made up, Andrew: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ben-needham-police-say-this-8871453

Last week the Mirror found the giant earthmover believed to have being used by Dino.

The rusting yellow digger is located in a field outside a village seven miles from where little Ben went missing.

It still clearly has the “Barkas” family name painted – in Greek - on both sides.

It is so big the bucket is over eight feet tall.

John Alevroyiannis / Daily MirrorStefanos Troumouhis, 33, pictured at the field, near to where Ben Needham disappearedMirror man Andy Lines with Stefanos
South Yorkshire Police already know the digger potentially involved in Ben’s death is still in operation on the island.

Detectives have seen, and examined, it in recent months. All Dino’s family still insist he was innocent.

froggy Mon 17 Oct 2016, 3:50 pm

That sounds more like a dumper than a digger. It would be normal practice to unload the contents of a digger shovel into a dumper for removal to another site.

Andrew Mon 17 Oct 2016, 4:59 pm

Yes, TTWO, Well it certainly seems that way.

Froggy, both articles are describing the digger. Not a dumper truck (unless very much mistaken).

I can't recall DI Cousins saying anything on the televised briefings in what he told the mailonline. In fact I can't recall him mentioning the actual digger much at all (apart from Dino was driving it and Ben had an accident).

Why does nothing seem to add up. Well it doesn't to me anyway.

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