The Mystery of Ben Needham

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  chirpyinsect on Fri 28 Jul 2017, 5:57 am

I'm inclined to agree with a lot of what you say poster. The frantic searching for an hour would suggest worry and fear. If they then assumed Stephen had Ben why not drive off there and then to find him? Once they did locate S without Ben, would you not then get hold of his mother? If nothing else she would be another pair of eyes. I just don't buy the parents' story.

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Mimi on Fri 28 Jul 2017, 7:24 am

Got to remember also that everything K has written is second hand information or what she has been told.

@ poster - you make some thought provoking points.


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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Freedom on Fri 28 Jul 2017, 8:54 am

There was a statement from an old lady who lived in the next house that she had seen Stephen leave on his bike but he did not have Ben with him.

Assuming she was not mistaken, then whatever happened to Ben did not involve Stephen and his bike.
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Mimi on Fri 28 Jul 2017, 8:59 am

Freedom wrote:There was a statement from an old lady who lived in the next house that she had seen Stephen leave on his bike but he did not have Ben with him.

Assuming she was not mistaken, then whatever happened to Ben did not involve Stephen and his bike.

"Across from where the lane joined the driveway stood the strange-looking villa. It wasn’t just high, it seemed to have been built back to front. You had to go round the rear to enter – as the police discovered when they decided to pay a call. An old lady Dad had seen once or twice answered. She confirmed that she had been in all day and had, crucially, seen Stephen leave on his motorbike. ‘Was the baby with him?’ ‘No, the baby was playing. Over there.’ She pointed to the back of the farmhouse. To exactly where Ben was last heard.

Needham, Kerry. Ben (Kindle Locations 1301-1305). Ebury Publishing. Kindle Edition."


Again, this is what Kerry was told by her father.

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Freedom on Fri 28 Jul 2017, 9:05 am

There could be some confusion as Stephen had gone on an earlier trip and returned before Ben went missing.

If the old lady had seen him on that occasion, then there remains the possibility that he took Ben when he left for the second time.

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  unreorganised on Fri 28 Jul 2017, 10:03 am

Châtelaine wrote:
***
That's suspicious.
I haven't followed this case closely, but of late get the feeling, that actually practically everyone knows what happened, but nobody wants to blame the other :-(

Essentially in cases where there is no overwhelming forensic evidence, so long as nobody speaks out then it is virtually impossible to prove what happened. Certain "communities" understand this better than others.
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  poster on Fri 28 Jul 2017, 1:56 pm

seahorse wrote:
Freedom wrote:It's my understanding that Eddie and Christine went to Kerry's flat - where Stephen had earlier gone for a shower - and it was there that he said that Ben wasn't with him.

I haven't time now to check whether the documentary says something different.

From ‘Somebody Knows’ (2001):

It was only later that evening, around 7.30 that Eddie found Stephen showering at Kerry’s flat , that they realised Ben was missing.
Stephen: I was out still in the shower. He knocked on the shower door and said: “Have you got Ben with you?”, And I said, No.

Book (2013):

Christine walked back to the caravan. No one there, but saw jerry can full of petrol. Assumed Stephen had taken Ben to Hotel for a swim. Started preparing dinner. It was around 5pm.
Around 5.20 pm Eddie and Danny arrived at caravan. Eddie not worried.
Around 5.30 pm Eddie arrives at Kerry’s flat, where he hears the shower. He is relieved and has glass of water and makes himself comfortable. A few minutes later Stephen comes out of the shower.  Just Stephen.  Stephen says he didn’t take Ben with him. Shock sets in. They return to caravan.
Around 6 pm Eddie and Danny return to farmhouse in Landrover. Mum and Stephen went to Kos Police on the motorbike.
6.30 Kos Police despatched to farmhouse

-------------------------------------------

2 hours difference between the documentary and the book with regards to Eddie's arrival at the flat!

Kos police know what time the disappearance was reported and so do SYP!


IMO they took a huge amount of time to raise the alarm. The whole account of the afternoon is deeply suspicious. Just think about it. The family are at an isolated farmhouse in the Greek countryside. What is the likelihood of 'an abductor' going up the track to the farmhouse and 'stealing' a child who is allegedly playing happily just yards away from his Grandparents. It was a boiling hot day - a toddler would not go wandering off in such intense heat and I think it was reported he was playing near a water tub which would make sense as he would want to cool off. So the suggestion is that the abductor snatches Ben away in the space of a few minutes yet the Grandparents hear nothing? No cries of protest? No sound at all?

Sorry, that is just complete nonsense.

You always have to look at the last person who saw the child in missing children cases, if only to draw up a good time-frame. The last person who saw and spoke to Ben was Stephen. It is on record that Ben wanted to go off with Stephen on his moped. Probably to a swimming pool as it is later reported by the Grandmother when Stephen doesn't return that she assumes Stephen had taken Ben to the hotel for a swim.

Stephen leaves at 2pm and the Grandparents notice that Ben goes quiet. By far the most likely explanation for this - with time-frame that matches perfectly - is that Stephen took Ben with him on his moped and they were going to go for a swim at the hotel pool.

The Grandparents allegedly search the area around the farmhouse for an hour. This may or may not be true. If the Grandparents knew that Stephen had gone off with Ben and if the destination had been the pool at the hotel where Kerry worked, then it could have been Kerry herself who raised the alarm. Perhaps there was even a routine whereby after finishing work in the heat of the day and having lunch, Stephen would take Ben to the hotel for a swim and to see Kerry. This would be the most obvious place to take Ben on a boiling hot day.

I don't know how far the hotel was from the farmhouse, but it would be interesting to see the route. I would imagine that the Grandparents, when Ben and Stephen did not arrive at the hotel, would have immediately suspected that an accident could have happened. This is a far more likely explanation for a child to go missing than an abduction. The Grandparents would have then set out on the route that Stephen would have taken and one presumes that one or other of them would have discovered what had happened.

One can only speculate that there would be intense shock and quite possibly a 'fight-flight' response (which can be the explanation for hit and run accidents however deplorable - the brain goes into shock mode). I think it is quite possible that Kerry was told that Ben had 'disappeared' because no-one could bear to tell the truth.

I would imagine Stephen went back to his home not just to leave petrol for the generator but also to pick up something. I would imagine that something had already happened by then. Probably en route to Stephen's destination. This just strikes me as the most logical time-frame.

It is just too suspicious, imo, that despite Ben having been last seen at 2pm, the alarm is not raised until hours later.

Stephen could have pretended (to Kerry?) that he hadn't taken Ben after all and therefore his disappearance was a mystery. Confusion can be good sometimes.

After having searched for an hour round the farmhouse, the Grandmother decides to walk home and discovers that Stephen has already been home but he has left again without leaving a note. It is on record that she is furious. This is hugely indicative of a certain scenario, imo. I don't know how far away their home is from the farmhouse but would the Grandmother really walk in that punishing heat? Surely it would be more likely that the Grandparents would get in the car and go and try to find Stephen and Ben.

It is only, allegedly, when Stephen returns again and has a shower in the late afternoon/early evening that the Grandparents learn that Stephen did not take Ben with him.

Sorry, I just can't buy this. And if it is true that the Grandmother assumed Stephen had gone off again after dropping petrol for the generator without leaving a note then surely this is another huge red flag that something had gone wrong by then. She assumes that Stephen has gone to the hotel (where Kerry works?) for a swim so the logical thing to do at this point would be to phone the hotel or go to the hotel. But no, nothing is done allegedly.

I would say, statistically speaking, the chances of Ben having been 'abducted'by a stranger from a remote farmhouse in Kos are about a million to one.

The neighbour's account of having seen Stephen on his moped without Ben is interesting. You would need to know exactly where she was when she saw him. Was it at 2pm? I think she also says that she saw Ben playing outside the farmhouse. How far away is her house? Could she see Ben directly from her house? I also find it implausible that the Needham's didn't know her. In a remote place like that on an island in Greece the neighbours would know each other and probably help each other out from time to time.

All IMO only but there really is no evidence at all that Ben was abducted from the area around the farmhouse. What abductor in their right mind would be hanging around an isolated, decrepit farmhouse down a long track in the blistering heat of the day when any sensible person would have been having lunch and then a siesta? In any event, Ben would stand out a mile on the Greek island because of his blond hair and his features. He could hardly be passed off as a Greek person's child so was the 'abductor' conveniently blond to avoid detection?

I find the whole story ludicrous as a certain person might say and I think it's astonishing that this has gone on so long. The police must realize what happened so what on earth were all those trips to Greece about? Sardine-munching and Retsina perhaps?

I think it might be useful to explore the Needham connections and also to explore the background of the farm-house owner who I think it is reported left the island not that long after the alleged abduction. I presume he would have had local connections if he was doing up a house there?

If there was an accident involving a moped there would have been evidence of this even if someone had tried to cover it up. This might, of course, be where a digger driver might come in handy as a useful patsy.

Pure speculation of course as always.
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  poster on Fri 28 Jul 2017, 2:04 pm

The digger driver (now conveniently dead) gets dragged into the saga. I wonder how close he was to the farmhouse and would he really have been working at 2pm that day?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ben-needham-disappearance-latest-police-demolish-farmhouse-kos-missing-toddler-a7342671.html
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  poster on Fri 28 Jul 2017, 2:07 pm

Freedom wrote:The first bit - Christine believes he was taken by gypsies who were watching the family - reminds me alas of another even more unlikely assertion that the McCanns were being watched by a paedo abductor.

Stolen by gypsies really is the stuff of fairy-tales.
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  poster on Fri 28 Jul 2017, 2:39 pm

Oh dear, this reply from the Needham family just clinches it for me. Notice how the police and indeed the country are slagged off. Notice how there is insistence on abduction without any proof. What really stands out for me is that the Grandparents claim they searched for an hour. Then made an assumption that Ben had gone off with Stephen. This is completely illogical and reminds me of Kate who wrote in her book that she felt there were no risks involved in leaving the children unattended. Yet the moment she finds Madeleine is missing she immediately 'knows' that she has been abducted. This again is totally illogical. Statistically speaking, the risk of Madeleine being abducted was indeed very low. Why would Kate go from thinking there was no risk of abduction to thinking Madeleine had definitely been abducted? It defies logic.

Equally why would the Needhams spend a whole hour in the baking heat searching for Ben and, on not finding him, then make an assumption he went with Stephen. There is no logic to this. You might hope that the explanation for Ben missing would be that he had gone off with Stephen. The only logical thing for the Grandparents to have done, imo, was for the Grandmother to search around the farmhouse, possibly enlisting the help of a neighbour or two (the elderly lady? Logically she would ask her if she saw Ben with Stephen?) and the Grandfather to drive off along the route that he suspected Stephen had taken.

I suspect this is precisely what the Grandfather did and he probably made a discovery within an hour or so of Stephen's departure. It would be interesting to know if it was customary for Stephen to take Ben swimming at the hotel (where Kerry worked?) This would be the most plausible explanation for their destination, imo. It would be interesting to see the route from the farmhouse to the hotel where Kerry worked.

Andrew wrote:The reply from the Needham family in response to the Observer article published in 2007:

Reply to article by Carol Sarler "The Observer" September 30, 2007

We understand that journalists have a job to do, but in our experience of 16 years working along side every British TV, Newspaper and Magazine there is, we do believe we have the right to reply to this article, because it misinforms the public.

Ms. Sarler

Firstly let us say that Ben was abducted he didn't just disappear, and if as you have stated in your column you have investigated Ben's case, you should have known the difference.

Yes! Ben played outside the doorway of the shack as you call it.

As a matter of fact, it was an old farmhouse that needed rebuilding.

There was no door or shutters or even windows.

Therefore, Ben had not been shut out of the house to play on his own.

Ben was in and out collecting water and food every few seconds.

Stephen was already at the farmhouse working with Eddie.

It was only when Eddie told Stephen, there was nothing more they could do that day without building materials, that Stephen left.

Yes!!! Ben was still outside at this time playing in the dirt with his toy cars like any normal little boy.

He did look up to see Stephen leaving and Stephen did tell him to stay there with Granddad.

Please Ms. Sarler, hold on to your own thought!

With hind sight yes Stephen could have picked him up and taken Ben inside, but why would anyone think like that.

If Ben wanted to wonder off on his own he could have done so already!

When Christine realised Ben was quiet (only a few moments after Stephen had gone) not 10 or even 5 minutes for that matter, she did NOT assume straight away that Stephen had taken Ben with him.

It was only after Christine, Eddie and the owner of the farmhouse searched the surrounding areas, shouted his name for half an hour or so that they came to this conclusion.


The time that Ben vanished was just after Stephen had left at around 2.30pm.

This is known to the authorities.

And even then Christine & Eddie, did not think "oh well let's go back inside to eat and chat". NO!!!

Christine was mad with Stephen for not telling them, so she went straight home walking with an empty pram just incase she passed them coming back.

It was not 5 hours before police were informed either, this is what the police and the abductors would like everyone to think.

True Ms. Sarler, as you must compared us with the McCanns, we do believe you are right.

We do not have friends in... high places.

We do not employ media managers and others to manage our affairs.

We do not have a multimillion pound Ltd. Company, in Ben's name to use as we please.

You are right Ms. Sarler, the British Embasy, "did not get off their butt, to support or help us" in any way, shape or form.

Dear Ms. Sarler you forgot to add that we did not even get a mention from any PM either.

We agree that everyone is entitled to an opinion, but only if one knows the facts and admitts to them.

We are totally familiar with the Kos police officers slunder.

Christine had a drink too many? That's really laughable.

Anyone who knows Christine, does know, there are two things she completely despises and that's drinking & offensive language.

We admit Ms. Sarler, Eddie has been drunk on occasions, after Ben was abducted and usually around the date of the abduction and on Ben's birthday.

Now the real beef, Ms. Sarler. Young Kerry was an unmarried slut.

For your information, Kerry loved her little son more than life and she was working to support him.

It is also a well known fact to those who really investigate reality, that the illegal adoptions of children is very much alive and well around the world and not the figment of someone's imagination.

As far as Greece is concerned, it has a long and dirty history.

Ben's abduction was no accident I assure you, nor did he have an accident.

Eddie & Christine were not negligent in anyway whilst looking after Ben.

Yes they do feel the guilt like any normal person would, but they have nothing to be ashamed of.

They checked on Ben continuously!

How far could a 21 month old go by himself? Not very far considering the ground there is too rough and has remained the same after all those years.

Eddie & Christine did not leave it 5 hours before looking for him as you state in your article.

Ms. Sarler you state you are entitled to make a judgement on Ben's fate.

We are really glad you just stood there, three times.

That is all you have done Ms. Sarler and along with the police slunder does not entitle you to any kind of judgement.

Where on earth did you see the lethal stretch of terrain with waist high scrub and crevasses?

Dear Ms. Sarler, have you confused Kos island with some other place?

Apart from the scenery, the corrupt Kos police, "forgot" to inform you that there have been witnesses statements, there was a white car parked near by, with one woman in the back and two men in the front.

The police themselves, have given us the name of the white car owner.

The owner of the car is a woman who had a close relationship with a certain police officer and was brought in to translate for us, thus controling the investigation itself.

When we ourselves confronted the woman with this fact, she denied her car was roadworthy at the time of Ben's abduction, namely July 24, 1991.

She lied and told us she had returned her car to the government in order to claim a subsidy.

True, but she had applied for it in October and it was approved in November.

Have you seen the documents Ms. Sarler?

Have you seen any witnesses statements at all?

We do not plan to show you any!!!

There has never been an investigation as to her whereabouts that fateful day.

It was all too easy for her to abduct Ben.

This woman knew how the police would react, especially when she told them about Kerry's unmarried mother status.

Another thing Ms. Sarler, how do you know when searches took place to find Ben?

Were you on Kos and somehow we did not see you, or this is what you have been told by the Kos police, the same police who botched and covered up the investigation in order to save their criminal friend and their island?

If Ben had wondered off during the afternoon and fell down he would have been heard crying.

If he had got stuck somewhere he would have been heard and what's more Ben would have heard his Nanny and granddad shouting his name.

A very scared little boy who have hurt himself, the whole village would have heard his screams.

There is an echo right there, Ms. Sarler, or you didn't notice that either?

But... you have investigated and you are entitled to tell the world!!!

Ben did not vanish on his own.

He was ABDUCTED Ms. Sarler.

Last but not least Ms. Slarer, apart from the police slunder to cover their own corruption, no member of the Needham family ever became a criminal suspect. This is not a class matter.

But it... becomes one, whenever climinal suspects are treated like celebrities.

May we suggest that in the future, you stick with reality and if you don't know the whole story, be really careful.

Next time around we will answer you with a lawsuit.

The Needham Family
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  poster on Fri 28 Jul 2017, 2:48 pm

Ah, here we are - a Scandinavian enters the scene with a video-recorder.

Christine Needham noticed a woman of Scandinavian appearance taking video-footage of Ben as he played by the pool at the Palm Beach hotel in June or July 1991 just before he went missing.

Kerry Needham worked at this hotel from the summer of 1991 until 13th November 2015.




https://m.facebook.com/helpfindben/photos/a.1130258763669197.1073741887.166769390018144/1130034323691641/?type=3
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  poster on Fri 28 Jul 2017, 3:05 pm

Ben's mother

"It was a shock to my system when I saw the newspaper report this morning. It is obviously an awful thought for myself and my family to have to deal with."

Police support

She said South Yorkshire Police, who have been supporting her during her search for Ben, could not confirm the report that Greek investigators now think a full excavation should be carried out.

"If that is what the Greek police want to do, then fine. Once it is proved that Ben is not dead, as I know, then maybe the Greek police will continue in their efforts to try and find him," she said.

Mrs Needham said she was continuing to receive support "24 hours a day, seven days a week".

A South Yorkshire Police statement said: "The investigation into the disappearance of Ben Needham remains with the Greek authorities.

"Should they request any help or support from South Yorkshire Police we will look to support them where we can and within our resources.

"The force's role is primarily to provide ongoing support to Ben's family, in particular his mum Kerry.


https://stopthemyths.info/viewtopic.php?f=174&t=3145&sid=1f8bb32dd55c68ae159d6ec35904d804
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  poster on Fri 28 Jul 2017, 3:14 pm

I don't blame them. The story strikes me as almost as absurd as the 'abduction'.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/22/family-of-digger-driver-take-legal-action-against-ben-needhams-m/
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  poster on Fri 28 Jul 2017, 4:08 pm

I see the mystery Scandinavian/s surface again.

Meanwhile, 14 people in involved in the search for Ben appear to be having 'fun in the sun'.


Someone appears to be laughing their head off, perhaps unsurprisingly.

Kerry is quoted in response to the news in the story: We are supposed to be trying to find the answers to what happened to Ben along with these detectives, and this could just hinder it. And I'm angry this report had to come out, it is just not nice.'



Just how much longer are police going to spend not 'finding the answers to what happened to Ben?'


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3585616/Return-Sunshine-Squad-Booze-ice-cream-British-cops-Kos-1m-hunt-missing-Ben-Needham.html
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  mumof6 on Sat 29 Jul 2017, 3:31 pm

How awful, the police officers felt that they were off duty and were entitled to have an ice cream and a couple of pints.  

I have always thought that Ben's family did not realise that he had vanished until he had been gone for hours, and did not want to admit the fact that no one had noticed that he was missing, so came up with a story of how they had noticed instantly, but then did not alert anyone.

I am not sure I believe the digger driver story, why would the digger driver need to cover up the death of a toddler who should not have been there? How can he be blamed for not seeing a small child?
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Mimi on Sat 29 Jul 2017, 5:27 pm

Going over the Someone Knows documentary again - At 39:11 mins the hypnosis session gets interesting.

"Got off my bike"
"Just left my bike"
"Just don`t know what to do"
"I`ll just sit in the dirt"
"Stay here forever"
"Head in my hands"
"Why me"
"Why did this happen to me"

But narrator says that S said it was not a real memory.


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