Matt Oldfield and his checks

Dee Coy wrote:@Don't Forget Madeleine.  Thanks for clarifying the date. So 1st May was crying night. So were they out late drinking every night? 1 May was quiz night  - did they all go to the Millennium after the quiz? I understand a OC worker was sent there to fetch them back? Or was that the 2nd, when Gerry bored the pants off Matt?

Confusing or what!

***
It's been "purported" that they went to Chaplins and were called back by OC staff, because of the crying. And, allegedly were offers free baby sitting, which they - allegedly again - didn't accept ....

And this makes you reflect on who was 'in the loop'.

Much said here might suggest MO wasn't.

Sorry to go off on a bit of a tangent.

No problem.

Resistor wrote:Imo, Oldfield was supposed to find the shutters open, the curtains whooshing, and Maddie gone.  Only he didn't look properly.  He came back as though nothing had happened.  Hence Gerry's panic, suddenly he has to "go and check"..

So, in that theory, the stage has been set for that but for whatever reason, hasn't gone to plan because Oldfield messed up, chickened out or didn't do what he was told?

Just been reading the MO rog,now he says that GM went away from the table just after he had got back,but I can't see any mention of GM returning,have I missed it? or did he not return?

Meteor wrote:

Resistor wrote:Imo, Oldfield was supposed to find the shutters open, the curtains whooshing, and Maddie gone.  Only he didn't look properly.  He came back as though nothing had happened.  Hence Gerry's panic, suddenly he has to "go and check"..

So, in that theory, the stage has been set for that but for whatever reason, hasn't gone to plan because Oldfield messed up, chickened out or didn't do what he was told?

Or checked the wrong apartment. Given his description was an entirely different flat.

Sorry, I should have realized. Very possible.

If he said he saw the twins breathing they of course could have been in a different apartment and not in the cots in 5a with the solid ends, therefore if they were on an ordinary bed he may well have seen them breathing.  I've just remembered that didn't GM say at one time inadvertently something about "the bed the twins were on" in an interview then corrected himself?  It vaguely rings a bell.

That would also account for the twins being brought back into 5a before the alarm was raised having been in another apartment.

Does that make sense?  I'm getting very confused now, it's getting late  

Perfect sense. He was trussed up like a kipper I reckon and the fact he described the wrong apartment means he didn`t listen too well to the plan.  
I`m thinking the shutters etc were to be done just before the alarm but someone not in the loop was present which meant that didn`t happen but the relatives back home were primed to say they were and got the time wrong due to thinking PT was 1 hour ahead.  Now what else happened with a 1 hour difference?

Tigger wrote:
Keep in mind that -somebody may have to correct me on this - nanny Pennington said that the twins were not in the apartment when she was there soon after ten. If so, they must have been moved back there?

She did - although she says she thought they had been taken out already....

Bizarrely, she also in her initial police statement said she never entered the apartment. >>> http://mccannfiles.com/id70.html

There's a video interview - I forget which one - of Gerry saying that "the twins were sleeping on the..... er, in their cots".

Châtelaine wrote:IMO an "Oldfield" 9:30 pm check had to be fiddled in, as there was according to Tapas staff a male missing from the table then. NO mother would allow a stranger to her children to check them physically. In the most innocent way, what if he woke them up? Scared them? Had to run back to Tapas and get one of their parents to sooth them? Ridiculous. Apart from that, indeed his statements don't make sense. Wrong curtains, wrong table, non-existing book-shelf and "seeing" the twins, but not Madeleine. I wouldn't want to walk a mile in his shoes ...

Is this where the myth originated, about Kate knowing that Madeleine had been "taken" because Cuddle Cat was left "on a high shelf"?

Tigger wrote:

Châtelaine wrote:IMO an "Oldfield" 9:30 pm check had to be fiddled in, as there was according to Tapas staff a male missing from the table then. NO mother would allow a stranger to her children to check them physically. In the most innocent way, what if he woke them up? Scared them? Had to run back to Tapas and get one of their parents to sooth them? Ridiculous. Apart from that, indeed his statements don't make sense. Wrong curtains, wrong table, non-existing book-shelf and "seeing" the twins, but not Madeleine. I wouldn't want to walk a mile in his shoes ...

Didn't a number if not all of the T7 say that they'd never been in 5a before the night in question?

Doesn't sound very friendly in a way. Yet MO describes 5D , we may assume that he knew it well enough to describe so many details from memory.

But then it seems Kate Healy wasn't au fait with 5a either, as it sadly missed a high ledge for cuddlecat.
I wonder if there was a high ledge in 5D and if possibly 5D was the makeshift evening creche.

Didn't the waiters say that no- one got up from the table generally?

The waiters said that Russell O'Brien left for about 15 minutes - *by himself* - and then another male left for 30 minutes (not necessarily after O'Brien's return), and both of the waiters who claimed this said they thought the second person to leave was Gerry.

Resistor wrote:There's a video interview - I forget which one - of Gerry saying that "the twins were sleeping on the..... er, in their cots".

From Vanity Fair interview.

It wasn’t until Kate walked into the villa at 10 and felt a sickening breeze—the front window had been jimmied open—that she realized something terrible had happened. “The scene was stark,” Gerry tells me. On one bed the twins lay sleeping. In the next lay only the plush cat toy Madeleine was never without. That was when Kate came out screaming, “Madeleine has gone!”

Yet Ccat was supposed to be on a high shelf and the twins in separate cots.

Oldfield has no other choice but to tell the truth and I believe he did it already, on an onofficial way.
Worse is the fact that Kate opened the door for Payne, wrapped in a towel, and he could not remember it.

paracetamol wrote:Oldfield has no other choice but to tell the truth and I believe he did it already, on an onofficial way.
Worse is the fact that Kate opened the door for Payne, wrapped in a towel, and he could not remember it.

It is possible that the new public prosecuter is taking ill because she has to analyse all of those lies.

If Oldfield had gone to the wrong apartment that fatal night, he would have realized his mistake when he was filmed for Gerry's documentary.

paracetamol wrote:

paracetamol wrote:Oldfield has no other choice but to tell the truth and I believe he did it already, on an onofficial way.
Worse is the fact that Kate opened the door for Payne, wrapped in a towel, and he could not remember it.

It is possible that the new public prosecuter is taking ill because she has to analyse all of those lies.

Haha paracetamol, I'd be ill too if I had to suss all this out!

paracetamol wrote:If Oldfield had gone to the wrong apartment that fatal night, he would have realized his mistake when he was filmed for Gerry's documentary.

When did Oldfield give this statement? 4th May he says this:

At around 9.25pm, the interviewee went into his apartment and Madeleine's apartment to check on the children. He states that the door of the bedroom that was occupied by Madeleine and the twins, was open and that there was enough light in the bedroom for him to see the twins in their cots. That he couldn't see the bed occupied by Madeleine, but as it was all quiet, he deduced that she was sleeping. That the light was not from an artificial source inside the apartment, but perhaps something coming from outside through the bedroom window. That it seemed to him that the shutters of the Master' bedroom window were open without knowing if the window was also open.

The apartment has two bedrooms, a lounge, a small kitchen and a bathroom. The couple's bedroom has a window which is visible from the restaurant. The children's bedroom windows look out on the road outside the tourist complex. Then the interviewee went back to the restaurant.

He states that the bedroom has two windows. The twins occupy two cots placed in the middle of the room and Madeleine occupies a bed pushed against the wall, facing the wall which has the two windows that look out onto the outside of the complex. That the door through which he entered the apartment was closed but not locked. That he doesn't know if it is usual for Madeleine's parents to leave the door closed but not locked because that door is visible from the restaurant.

So I would assume there was some kind of pow wow after the statements were given where GM would realise MO had described the wrong apt.
Yet he still describes the curtains wrongly in his rog statement of 9/4/08.
4078 'Okay. Could you see anything else from where you were stood''

Reply 'The rest is just sort vague impressions of, erm, of the colour of the curtains, I couldn't tell what particular pattern, but I just remember green and yellow with that. And there may have been a duvet on the back bed behind the two cots. But nothing else specific'.

Oooh Matthew. Brain leak or what?

I wonder when he was put straight.

quote  from MO " He states that the door of the bedroom that was occupied by Madeleine and the twins, was open and that there was enough light in the bedroom for him to see the twins in their cots

Yet 30 minutes later Kate could not make Maddie out in the bed, due to the lack of light in that room.

If Maddie at 9.30 was not there for MO to see, due to the abduction alleged via Tanner sighting to have taken place 15 minutes earlier, the shutters were up by the time of Oldfield's check... this is the implication of the light levels in the room and his seeing the rise and fall of the twins' chests.... yes, from outside the door and through mesh cots]!]. And of course he is trying to place the door as being open wide enough for him to see in without opening it more.
So, scene set. Abduction by Tannerman between Gerry and Matt's checks. He had opened the bedroom door and shutters.

Yet 30 minutes later, with the same light levels , sufficient for Oldfield to see the detail of the twins' breathing from the little passageway outside of the bedroom, Kate, standing at the door, so closer and with the same amount of light, when looking in could not tell if the shape she could see was Maddie or the bedclothes.

How does that work?

It doesn't...

And if cc was left on a high shelf, it would've been taken by forensics for any DNA evidence, but what was found on it was cadaver odour!
Imo

In KMs book she mentions the run she went with MO. She says a small dog run out from under a bench and bit her leg. I'm near sure ive read that she'd been attacked by proberly 12 dogs on a run at some stage. Does this mean KM was attacked by dogs twice in PDL whilst on a run?

I think K is telling yet another porky in regards to the dog biting incident.

IMO.

Andrew wrote:I think K is telling yet another porky in regards to the dog biting incident.

IMO.

Aha, but one or two porkies?