Re: The strange case of Robert Murat

seahorse Thu 20 Nov 2014, 4:41 pm

Helenmeg wrote:
bellisa wrote:Ken walkden helen meg... to me its just a coincidence though.
Yes - I agree
I think there were frequent golfing trips and strong golfing links between RPGC and the Algarve gold clubs. The pro at RPGC Danny Spillane had been sent out to be a pro
at one of the golf cluibs near Praia de Luz. Three Leicester business men had set up a business promoting property / leisure / golfing in the Algarve - Vigia Group.
I think that there was a steady stream of golfers going out to Portugal - and probably there are business / golfing links. There seemed to be plenty of money to be made developing golf / luxury resorts in the Algarve and this had been seized upon by some Leicester business men.

So no real surprise that the same hire car got used on these trips ...

Geraghty is linked to Boavista Golf Club which is owned by the Emerson Group. Is there a link with Boavista - Vigia Group as well?

ETA:

Just found this.

"Portugal

Best apartment

Gold Aldeia Portucale, Praia D'El Rey (World Class Homes) (00 351 262 90 5000 - www.praia-del-rey.com)

Silver Boavista Golf Resort (Jones Homes Portugal, The Emerson Group) (01625 548 405 - www.boavistaresort.com)

Bronze Estrela da Luz (Oceanico Developments) (00 351 282 792 109 - www.oceanico developments.com)

Best villa

Gold Vale do Lobo (00 351 289 353 102 - www.valedolobo.com)

Silver Boavista Golf Resort (Jones Homes Portugal, The Emerson Group) (as above)

Bronze Parque da Floresta (The Vigia Group) (01223 316 820 - www.parquedafloresta.com)"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/newhomes/3321925/Homes-Overseas-Awards-2004-the-winners.html

Looks like Emerson Group, Vigia Group and Oceanico Group were all competitors in the golfing/property business in Portugal.

Mimi Thu 20 Nov 2014, 4:49 pm

I didn`t realise RM was a JW as well.

A couple of numbers on his phone were :-

Ian CI: 139..., phone in the Mr Ian Cxxxxx's house ...in Exeter, "ansiao" of the congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses in Exeter with whom he maintains a close relationship because he had been his Bible teacher in Exeter;

Vital 912... A Jehova's Witness who provided bible lessons;

Vital Rxxxxxx VR 912..., mobile of a Jehovah's Witness whom he met through Michaela, name Vital Rxxxxxx, resident in Lagos, with whom he does not maintain close contact;

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBERT-MURAT.htm

bellisa Thu 20 Nov 2014, 5:09 pm

Yes helenmeg there does seem to be strong golf links there. I would think that as the algarve is such a popular golfing spot that members from within a club would recommend different courses they'd been to.

One thing I'd like to know though did mr Walkden visit portugal with his family? The Renault he hired wouldn't be typical of a lone golfer or even a couple of friends. Its very much a family car.

Guest Thu 20 Nov 2014, 5:11 pm

Andrew wrote:
seahorse wrote:
caricature wrote:Just a thought,wasn't there a guy who went on to Murats property in the dead of night with ground radar gear,was this ever properly looked into and did Murat have an explanation to what was claimed at the time.

That was Stephen Birch. More on him here:

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id413.html

Bit of a nutcase imo.

I'm sure I saw on Twitter not so long back that Stephen Birch has been outed as part of Team Mccann....

Don't think I dreamt it but maybe a twitterer can confirm....

Yes, I read that as well, I think within the past 12-24 hours although like you I can't remember which twitter account is was on at the moment. You weren't imagining it. I will have to do a search now to find it. scratch

**Freedom** Thu 20 Nov 2014, 5:20 pm

I find it hard to believe that Stephen Birch could be part of Team McCann.

They certainly have some unbalanced supporters - to put it politely - but he is completely over the top.

Helenmeg Thu 20 Nov 2014, 5:45 pm

bellisa wrote:Yes helenmeg there does seem to be strong golf links there. I would think that as the algarve is such a popular golfing spot that members from within a club would recommend different courses they'd been to.

One thing I'd like to know though did mr Walkden visit portugal with his family? The Renault he hired wouldn't be typical of a lone golfer or even a couple of friends. Its very much a family car.

I seem to remember (its all on the hire car thread over at the other place, that he was one of a group of golfers). Ken, in his statement, denied knowing Gerry but as he was a member of the same golf club , I would think its highly likely that he knew of him. He certainly knew him a couple of years later when he played in a tournament at Rothley Park which was in aid of Madeleine.

Helenmeg Thu 20 Nov 2014, 5:52 pm

seahorse wrote:
Helenmeg wrote:
bellisa wrote:Ken walkden helen meg... to me its just a coincidence though.
Yes - I agree
I think there were frequent golfing trips and strong golfing links between RPGC and the Algarve gold clubs. The pro at RPGC Danny Spillane had been sent out to be a pro
at one of the golf cluibs near Praia de Luz. Three Leicester business men had set up a business promoting property / leisure / golfing in the Algarve - Vigia Group.
I think that there was a steady stream of golfers going out to Portugal - and probably there are business / golfing links. There seemed to be plenty of money to be made developing golf / luxury resorts in the Algarve and this had been seized upon by some Leicester business men.

So no real surprise that the same hire car got used on these trips ...

Geraghty is linked to Boavista Golf Club which is owned by the Emerson Group. Is there a link with Boavista - Vigia Group as well?

ETA:

Just found this.

"Portugal

Best apartment

Gold Aldeia Portucale, Praia D'El Rey (World Class Homes) (00 351 262 90 5000 - www.praia-del-rey.com)

Silver Boavista Golf Resort (Jones Homes Portugal, The Emerson Group) (01625 548 405 - www.boavistaresort.com)

Bronze Estrela da Luz (Oceanico Developments) (00 351 282 792 109 - www.oceanico developments.com)

Best villa

Gold Vale do Lobo (00 351 289 353 102 - www.valedolobo.com)

Silver Boavista Golf Resort (Jones Homes Portugal, The Emerson Group) (as above)

Bronze Parque da Floresta (The Vigia Group) (01223 316 820 - www.parquedafloresta.com)"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/newhomes/3321925/Homes-Overseas-Awards-2004-the-winners.html

Looks like Emerson Group, Vigia Group and Oceanico Group were all competitors in the golfing/property business in Portugal.

Yes Sea horse - at one stage I looked into the Vigia Group (over at the other forum) and found that the Vigia group hired a consultant on improving business in low season. Another strange coincidence came to light - the wife of the consultant (I think she was called Nancy ) found a bag by the roadside containing clothes that had possibly belonged to Madeleine! (see link http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SUNDRYS.htm). She handed them in to PJ.
My theory was that it was a red herring that she handed in deliberately... but it was only my theory. Anyway, it would be very likely that all these groups are linked. I seem to remember that Vigia went bankrupt in around 2008 but then was re-started.

So we have ex pats who are very much linked to Leicester / Golf / development of golf-reated business in the Algarve. They had a steady stream of business through Rothley..
Therefore if GM needed any help whilst out on holiday - there would be a fair few he could call upon! perhaps...

Thetruth Thu 20 Nov 2014, 6:17 pm

Emerson Group of Alderley Edge, Cheshire.

Part of Orbit Developments, owner Peter Jones.

nobodythereeither Thu 20 Nov 2014, 6:51 pm

Helenmeg wrote:
Therefore if GM needed any help whilst out on holiday - there would be a fair few he could call upon! perhaps...

Some posters on some forums have in the past made much of the fact that Gerry is apparently a mason.

I have no idea whether or not he is, and if he is, what implications this might have for fellow masons a) helping cover up a crime, if there was one and b) not telling the police of any relevant facts in their possession.

Admin please delete if this isn't appropriate to discuss here.

Tristar Thu 20 Nov 2014, 6:59 pm

I'd like this to have a separate thread - mixing the supernatural (e.g. religion) with stone cold facts - always causes dissent and general ugliness - but maybe that's just me.

Heaven forfend - someone argues that dinosaur bones are only 5000 years old - look what that madness led to.

Châtelaine Thu 20 Nov 2014, 7:03 pm

I have no idea who you are referring too ... LOL

nobodythereeither Thu 20 Nov 2014, 7:04 pm

But this isn't a discussion about religion or the masons per se - the point is about what connections GM may have had which could have been helpful to him in the context of what this thread has been discussing.

It could be masons, it could be golf club cronies as already discussed, it could be relatives or whatever. However, a masonic connection has been suggested which is why I raised it.

Guest Thu 20 Nov 2014, 7:10 pm

Mimi wrote:I didn`t realise RM was a JW as well.

A couple of numbers on his phone were :-

Ian CI: 139..., phone in the Mr Ian Cxxxxx's house ...in Exeter, "ansiao" of the congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses in Exeter with whom he maintains a close relationship because he had been his Bible teacher in Exeter;

Vital 912... A Jehova's Witness who provided bible lessons;

Vital Rxxxxxx VR 912..., mobile of a Jehovah's Witness whom he met through Michaela, name Vital Rxxxxxx, resident in Lagos, with whom he does not maintain close contact;

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBERT-MURAT.htm

I've never heard that Murat himself was JW, but certainly Michaela I heard was JW unless I've mixed her up with his wife in the UK. I think she was still married at the time of the abduction but I believevM was divorced by that time.

In one article I remember his erstwhile employer (car sales or something in Norfolk) saying that M was an over-helpful type, trying too hard and this put some people off.

Once he'd been made arguido the press printed what they liked and I can't repeat it in polite society.

At one stage it was reported that Murat was going to sue the three Tapas who said they'd seen him that evening.

Tristar Thu 20 Nov 2014, 7:14 pm

nobodythereeither wrote:
Tristar wrote:
nobodythereeither wrote:
Helenmeg wrote:
Therefore if GM needed any help whilst out on holiday - there would be a fair few he could call upon! perhaps...

Some posters on some forums have in the past made much of the fact that Gerry is apparently a mason.

I have no idea whether or not he is, and if he is, what implications this might have for fellow masons a) helping cover up a crime, if there was one and b) not telling the police of any relevant facts in their possession.

Admin please delete if this isn't appropriate to discuss here.

I'd like this to have a separate thread - mixing the supernatural (e.g. religion) with stone cold facts - always
causes dissent and general ugliness - but maybe that's just me.

But this isn't a discussion about religion or the masons per se - the point is about what connections GM may have had which could have been helpful to him in the context of what this thread has been discussing.

It could be masons, it could be golf club cronies as already discussed, it could be relatives or whatever. However, a masonic connection has been suggested which is why I raised it.

Cool and I defend anyone's right to raise an issue

But since time immemorial (I exaggerate) - the Mirror Forum and 3a - religious affiliations have been used to
beat posters over the head. Starting with the Jews, swiftly followed by Roman Catholics and as a side show the Freemasons.

Now Freemasonry is not a religion - (in order to join you must however be a) male and b) believe in ONE divinity)
but a cult - cue Scientology, Jehova's witnesses.

I'm perfectly happy for Freemasonry to become a constant strand in a main thread - after all this is not my casa

I just think that mixing the occult with the facts causes division.

And now I shut up Very Happy

nobodythereeither Thu 20 Nov 2014, 7:22 pm

Tristar, it's absolutely irrelevant what Freemasonry is or is not. Who is talking about it "becoming a constant strand in a main thread"??! (apart from you??!)

I've posted about it once and asked what I think is a relevant question in the context of this thread, and you are trying to widen out what I've said beyond all recognition Smile

The point is whether Gerry McCann had connections with fellow Freemasons (if he was one) which could have been useful because of certain undertakings which masons apparently make to fellow masons when they become a mason.

That's all.

**candyfloss** Thu 20 Nov 2014, 7:26 pm

I think we should get back to topic and that is Robert Murat may be questioned again!

Justformaddiemccann Thu 20 Nov 2014, 7:29 pm

Just read that the BBC says RM is to be spoken to as a witness.

nobodythereeither Thu 20 Nov 2014, 7:29 pm

candyfloss wrote:I think we should get back to topic and that is Robert Murat may be questioned again!

Sorry!

Tristar Thu 20 Nov 2014, 7:29 pm

Sorry nobodythereeither, not my aim to rile you

As ad said - lets get back to the matter at hand

Tristar Thu 20 Nov 2014, 7:30 pm

Justformaddiemccann wrote:Just read that the BBC says RM is to be spoken to as a witness.

I consider this a good thing

Dee Coy Thu 20 Nov 2014, 7:31 pm

Justformaddiemccann wrote:Just read that the BBC says RM is to be spoken to as a witness.

But when??

**candyfloss** Thu 20 Nov 2014, 7:33 pm

Profile: Robert Murat

The strange case of Robert Murat - Page 8 _44833791_murat282_pa

Robert Murat has consistently maintained his innocence

Robert Murat was the first person to be named as an official suspect in the inquiry into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
More than a year later, the investigation has been shelved, his status has been lifted and he has won a substantial libel payout from several British newspapers.
Madeleine McCann went missing from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal, on 3 May 2007. She was three at the time.
Mr Murat, 34, lives with his mother Jenny, 71, in a nearby house in the Algarve village.
He had previously lived in Hockering, Norfolk, and has an estranged wife, Dawn, and a daughter. At the time of Madeleine's disappearance he had a girlfriend, Michaela Walczuch, who also won a libel settlement from British newspapers.
During the police search, the former property developer became well known to journalists and told them he had been helping police with translation work.
Police searched the Murats' villa after Sunday Mirror journalist Lori Campbell spoke to the British Embassy and the police about Mr Murat.
Mr Murat was questioned by police 11 days after Madeleine went missing, and was then made a formal suspect - or arguido.
A subsequent two-day search of his home was carried out by police in August 2007.
'Scapegoat'
The British expatriate, who describes himself as half-Portuguese, consistently stated his innocence.
And his mother always maintained she had been with him at home on the night of Madeleine's disappearance.

I just didn't know how to deal with any of it The strange case of Robert Murat - Page 8 End_quote_rb

Robert Murat on being linked to Madeleine's disappearance

When he was first identified as a suspect, Mr Murat said he had been made a "scapegoat" for something he had not done.
He said he had received a lot of hate mail when he was first made a suspect.
In a recent BBC interview, Mr Murat said it had been "completely devastating" to both him and his family to have been named as a suspect.
"I just didn't know how to deal with any of it," he said.
"I've never been in a situation like this. I've never had any problems with the police, I've never had any problems in any way, shape or form and to be dragged into the biggest case in Europe... there was an incredible amount of pressure."
Campaign
Mr Murat had for some time campaigned to clear his name. The campaign stepped up in January 2008 when his mother said it was time for her son's status to be reviewed.
In a BBC interview, Jenny Murat said police had not contacted him for six months and they wanted to get back on with their lives.

I do think the case should continue - I do think they should carry on to find that child The strange case of Robert Murat - Page 8 End_quote_rb

Robert Murat

In March it emerged that the Briton had had computers and other possessions seized by Portuguese police returned to him.
Mr Murat said at the time that the move was a "very positive sign" for him.
He said he was happy to have the computers back, "and I hope I will have my arguido status dropped very shortly".
The following month his lawyers, Simons Muirhead & Burton, revealed that their client planned to sue 11 leading British newspapers and Sky TV over allegedly libellous stories.
An out-of-court libel settlement was reached with the Sun, Daily Express, Sunday Express, Daily Star, Daily Mail, London Evening Standard, Metro, Daily Mirror, Sunday Mirror, News of the World and the Scotsman in early July.
Mr Murat received £600,000 and an apology.
In March, Madeleine's parents Kate and Gerry McCann, who had also been named as suspects, won £550,000 and an apology from Express Newspapers for suggesting they were involved in their daughter's disappearance.
'To hell and back'
On Monday, the Portuguese attorney-general said the investigation had been shelved and the three suspects would have their status lifted.
In a BBC interview after he won his libel damages but before he was officially cleared, Mr Murat said he had been "to hell and back without doing anything wrong" - but still felt he had a future.
"I wish it had not happened, (but) it has happened and I have to deal with it every day. I have to live my life knowing that I was linked to the situation."
He added: "I want to carry on with my life. But it doesn't necessarily mean I want the case to be shelved in Portugal.
"I do think the case should continue - I do think they should carry on to find that child."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7507545.stm

**candyfloss** Thu 20 Nov 2014, 7:34 pm

Robert Murat: In his own words

The strange case of Robert Murat - Page 8 _44563617_murat_pa226b

Robert Murat denies any involvement in Madeleine's disappearance

Madeleine McCann suspect Robert Murat has given his first public interview since being named official suspect or arguido by police in Portgual.
Mr Murat has received £600,000 in damages from 11 British newspapers and an apology.
"It's a vindication. It's a line to get our lives back on track", Mr Murat told BBC News in an exclusive interview.
He believes that media in the UK had gone too far and hopes his case may help act as a restraint on some.
Robert Murat told the BBC's Richard Bilton it was a good feeling to have the newspapers apologise for printing false stories about him.
But he added: "I would have preferred to have not gone through it than had to get to this stage".
False accusations
Mr Murat said he had tried not to look at the papers after the first few days of coverage because of the allegations some made about him.
"Some of the newspapers said I had paedophile tendencies, I had child pornography, which is probably the worst of the worst.

I have been through hell and back without doing anything wrong The strange case of Robert Murat - Page 8 End_quote_rb

Robert Murat
The strange case of Robert Murat - Page 8 Inline_dashed_line

Court 'vindicates' Murat

"Other papers were indicating that I had DNA on my properties which is completely wrong".
He acknowledged that some people might always look at him with suspicion and that was something he would have to live with for the rest of his life.
"I did everything I did with the best intentions... everyone has their opinions. I can't change their opinions - hopefully time will change their opinions and... we'll have a result in the future to show that I had nothing to do with this."
Mr Murat said it had been devastating to be dragged into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann in such a negative way.
"It took away my faith in humanity as such".
Family support
Mr Murat credited his family with helping him through the difficult times: "My family has helped me get up in the morning and face the next day".
He said that the first time he was taken in for questioning was probably the lowest point of last year.
He said that because of sensationalist coverage of the case many people had forgotten that a child was still missing.
He said the media's behaviour had been "disgusting".
"The media does need to have a look at itself and I think that if it can't look at itself I think there has to be some kind of protection for people that don't have the resources to be able to confront them"
Arguido status
Mr Murat said he did not understand why he was made an official suspect or arguido and said he wanted to be exonerated.
"I have to live my life knowing that I was linked to this situation but with a strong family I do have a future, I do feel I have a future".
"I have been through hell and back without doing anything wrong".
He said that despite his situation he thought the Portuguese police should carry on with the case.
"I don't want to be an arguido... I want to carry on with my life. But it doesn't necessarily mean I want the case to be shelved in Portugal. I do think the case should continue - I do think they should carry on to find that child".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7511907.stm

**candyfloss** Thu 20 Nov 2014, 7:40 pm

Robert Murat had almost £600,00 from newspapers in damages, plus unknown amount from Sky broadcaster too.

Murat wins libel pay-out from Sky

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7729145.stm

Court 'vindicates' McCann suspect

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7511363.stm

Justformaddiemccann Thu 20 Nov 2014, 7:44 pm

Dee Coy wrote:
Justformaddiemccann wrote:Just read that the BBC says RM is to be spoken to as a witness.

But when??

Sorry Dee Coy, updated yesterday at 14:40

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