£11 Million spent - time to end?

Mo wrote:The Mccanns certainly got preferential treatment - just wondering if it was because of friends of friends


I assume this is what normally happens


2015
British boy, 7, who died in tragic Alps skiing accident plunged 320ft to his death

Flaine, a resort near the border with Switzerland, is popular with British families and is just an hour and 15 minutes drive from the international airport in Geneva.

A Foreign Office spokeswoman said yesterday: “We can confirm the death of a British national in Flaine, France, on April 10.

“We are providing consular assistance to the family at this difficult time.”

So I wonder why Kerry Needham did not get consular assistance.

I really don`t think the McCanns would have got the phenomenal assistance they had, and so quickly, if GM had not issued some form of threat, and we must remember that Maddie could have turned up in the following days.

Yes, I believe there was instant cover up initially because of threats by TM, but I think truths have percolated through, plus links made by PJ and SY and it is no longer a cover up.

I honestly don't understand why any of the antis are getting worked up about the costs and length of time that Scotland Yard are taking. The only people with reason to be perturbed are those trying to cover up their crimes. The message seems loud and clear, Operation Grange are not giving up - and that must be hell for some people.

Cristobell wrote:I honestly don't understand why any of the antis are getting worked up about the costs and length of time that Scotland Yard are taking.  The only people with reason to be perturbed are those trying to cover up their crimes.  The message seems loud and clear, Operation Grange are not giving up - and that must be hell for some people.

That is only true if Grange is genuine and I think you must accept that to have concerns about Grange's veracity is hardly swivel eyed conspiracy

ETA I'm not anti anything. I'm pro truth

Elsewhere also thought antis were desperate for OG to quit,

Threats about what Mimi, people who were there, work he was doing on Comare?

Mo wrote:Threats about what Mimi, people who were there, work he was doing on Comare?

If I knew that Mo, we could all go home.  But from what we`ve gleaned of the man over this past 7 years, I imagine he would be on the offensive straight away and using any info he had as a threat, and of course name dropping - `do you realise who I am` and `do you realise who I know` or even `do you realise what I know`.

It could well be about Comare, or things he knows about government officials and of course there`s what he may know about Diana`s death.

Cristobell wrote:I honestly don't understand why any of the antis are getting worked up about the costs and length of time that Scotland Yard are taking.  The only people with reason to be perturbed are those trying to cover up their crimes.  The message seems loud and clear, Operation Grange are not giving up - and that must be hell for some people.

The length of time is encouraging afaic - to me it means there are leads going all over the place.

Cristobell wrote:I honestly don't understand why any of the antis are getting worked up about the costs and length of time that Scotland Yard are taking.  The only people with reason to be perturbed are those trying to cover up their crimes.  The message seems loud and clear, Operation Grange are not giving up - and that must be hell for some people.

There is no sign of any resolution and the thing could be dragged out for several years, yet. You must appreciate that some of us might not live that long

Mimi wrote:

Cristobell wrote:I honestly don't understand why any of the antis are getting worked up about the costs and length of time that Scotland Yard are taking.  The only people with reason to be perturbed are those trying to cover up their crimes.  The message seems loud and clear, Operation Grange are not giving up - and that must be hell for some people.

The length of time is encouraging afaic - to me it means there are leads going all over the place.

I can't see that can be a good thing as most if not all of them are going to come to nothing.

Don't Forget Madeleine wrote:

AndyB wrote:

Don't Forget Madeleine wrote:

AndyB wrote:

Don't Forget Madeleine wrote:

AndyB wrote:The Met are now under investigation for 29 different times that they have corruptly covered up wrong doing by the establishment. http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5670/ipcc-launches-13-more-probes-into-paedophile-cover-ups

Yet people still seem to believe that the 12 million and counting is to fund a genuine investigation into some unknown crime concerning the disappearance of a child in a foreign jurisdiction. Seriously? Other than blind faith, why?

May be the 29 crimes didn't have the scrutiny of the internet at the time, much different from the McCann case now.

You seem to be very perturbed about SY and the McCann case, does it matter to you that much?

Of course I'm perturbed at SY corruption! They're rubbing it in our faces and getting away with it.

The McCann case is no different - they're actively covering something up (IMO) and it matters to me a great deal. Are you saying I shouldn't care, should just tug my forelock and be happy that the McCanns get away with it simply because they're collateral beneficiaries to establishment corruption?

Can you  not see that the 29 times each represent a separate incidence of the Met corruptly covering up a serious crime? Can you not see the implications for Grange that follow from that?

I'm not saying you shouldn't care at all, of course we all care, that's why most of us have been here for 8 years waiting for justice for Madeleine.

But we all have to be patience  and see what happens with the PJ/SY investigation, if we all think it's a cover up at the end of the road we can all let rip and make as much noise about it as we can, but in the meantime we have to let things take its course.  After all we've waited 8 years, what's another year or so if it brings the perpetrators to justice.

I'll say it again, you seem to be so wound up about this "cover up" that it matters to you a great deal.  Why actually, what difference will it make to your life one way or the other?

Seriously? A corrupt establishment uses the Met to cover up their crimes and you don't think I should be getting at least a bit wound up about it?

You seem convinced that the perpetrators will be brought to justice but I'm getting wound up because its perfectly obvious to me that they won't be. Your suggestion that I wait and let things take their course only makes sense if you believe that the investigation is genuine but I don't believe that it isn't for the reasons that I've outlined above. I hope I'm wrong but, as I said earlier to Andrew, I can only go where my analysis and logic take me.

I'll ask you again: Can you  not see that the 29 times each represent a separate incidence of the Met corruptly covering up a serious crime? Can you not see the implications for Grange that follow from that?

I didn't say I was convinced that the perpetrators will be brought to justice, I said wait and see what happens when the PJ/SY investigation comes to an end.

You sound as wound up as someone else I could mention, which I won't.  I'm not losing sleep over what the PJ/SY may be doing but certain people seem to be.

And again: Can you not see that the 29 times each represent a separate incidence of the Met corruptly covering up a serious crime? Can you not see the implications for Grange that follow from that?

froggy wrote:

Mimi wrote:

Cristobell wrote:I honestly don't understand why any of the antis are getting worked up about the costs and length of time that Scotland Yard are taking.  The only people with reason to be perturbed are those trying to cover up their crimes.  The message seems loud and clear, Operation Grange are not giving up - and that must be hell for some people.

The length of time is encouraging afaic - to me it means there are leads going all over the place.

I can't see that can be a good thing as most if not all of them are going to come to nothing.

No, I mean real leads froggy - not the ones that Redwood made up. There could be leads to all sorts of government and police corruption, paedo rings etc. reaching to other countries and their governments.

The only reason I think a cover up would be happening is if a member of the royal family is involved or a high cabinet official or even a prime minister. This is not out of the question afaic because of the involvement of MI5, but even then I think this would have been put to bed years ago.

Mimi wrote:

froggy wrote:

Mimi wrote:

Cristobell wrote:I honestly don't understand why any of the antis are getting worked up about the costs and length of time that Scotland Yard are taking.  The only people with reason to be perturbed are those trying to cover up their crimes.  The message seems loud and clear, Operation Grange are not giving up - and that must be hell for some people.

The length of time is encouraging afaic - to me it means there are leads going all over the place.

I can't see that can be a good thing as most if not all of them are going to come to nothing.

No, I mean real leads froggy - not the ones that Redwood made up.  There could be leads to all sorts of government and police corruption, paedo rings etc. reaching to other countries and their governments.

The only reason I think a cover up would be happening is if a member of the royal family is involved or a high cabinet official or even a prime minister.  This is not out of the question afaic because of the involvement of MI5, but even then I think this would have been put to bed years ago.

If this were to be the case, then it is definitely going nowhere

AndyB wrote:

Don't Forget Madeleine wrote:

AndyB wrote:

Don't Forget Madeleine wrote:

AndyB wrote:

Don't Forget Madeleine wrote:

AndyB wrote:The Met are now under investigation for 29 different times that they have corruptly covered up wrong doing by the establishment. http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5670/ipcc-launches-13-more-probes-into-paedophile-cover-ups

Yet people still seem to believe that the 12 million and counting is to fund a genuine investigation into some unknown crime concerning the disappearance of a child in a foreign jurisdiction. Seriously? Other than blind faith, why?

May be the 29 crimes didn't have the scrutiny of the internet at the time, much different from the McCann case now.

You seem to be very perturbed about SY and the McCann case, does it matter to you that much?

Of course I'm perturbed at SY corruption! They're rubbing it in our faces and getting away with it.

The McCann case is no different - they're actively covering something up (IMO) and it matters to me a great deal. Are you saying I shouldn't care, should just tug my forelock and be happy that the McCanns get away with it simply because they're collateral beneficiaries to establishment corruption?

Can you  not see that the 29 times each represent a separate incidence of the Met corruptly covering up a serious crime? Can you not see the implications for Grange that follow from that?

I'm not saying you shouldn't care at all, of course we all care, that's why most of us have been here for 8 years waiting for justice for Madeleine.

But we all have to be patience  and see what happens with the PJ/SY investigation, if we all think it's a cover up at the end of the road we can all let rip and make as much noise about it as we can, but in the meantime we have to let things take its course.  After all we've waited 8 years, what's another year or so if it brings the perpetrators to justice.

I'll say it again, you seem to be so wound up about this "cover up" that it matters to you a great deal.  Why actually, what difference will it make to your life one way or the other?

Seriously? A corrupt establishment uses the Met to cover up their crimes and you don't think I should be getting at least a bit wound up about it?

You seem convinced that the perpetrators will be brought to justice but I'm getting wound up because its perfectly obvious to me that they won't be. Your suggestion that I wait and let things take their course only makes sense if you believe that the investigation is genuine but I don't believe that it isn't for the reasons that I've outlined above. I hope I'm wrong but, as I said earlier to Andrew, I can only go where my analysis and logic take me.

I'll ask you again: Can you  not see that the 29 times each represent a separate incidence of the Met corruptly covering up a serious crime? Can you not see the implications for Grange that follow from that?

I didn't say I was convinced that the perpetrators will be brought to justice, I said wait and see what happens when the PJ/SY investigation comes to an end.

You sound as wound up as someone else I could mention, which I won't.  I'm not losing sleep over what the PJ/SY may be doing but certain people seem to be.

And again: Can you not see that the 29 times each represent a separate incidence of the Met corruptly covering up a serious crime? Can you not see the implications for Grange that follow from that?

You could be right, but I'm not getting my knickers in a twist about it as you are. I'm not losing sleep over it, as I said before I'll wait until PJ/SY finish their investigations. I have confidence in them and you don't, so we don't agree, so what? It's not going to change your life is it or my life?

AndyB wrote:
And again: Can you not see that the 29 times each represent a separate incidence of the Met corruptly covering up a serious crime? Can you not see the implications for Grange that follow from that?

Nope

So these implications then, what are you going to do about it? What is all this negativity and accusations going to achieve....... absolutely zilch. Are you saying they should stop the investigation or?? - well, what are you saying, or just moaning for moaning's sake Sorry but I can't see the point of moaning and criticising before you know the outcome.

I don't think its a case of doing anything, other than being aware that the police are often not the good guys and cannot always be trusted to seek or deliver the truth.

dogs don't lie wrote:Exactly, OG was set up to help with the PJ investigation.... let them work away.

Not sure if it isn't more sinister than that?

- The Files were released to the public in August 2008 - the PJ had shelved the case by then.

- The Met launched the review in May 2011.

- This became a formal investigation following new "leads" after study of the Files, the PI reports and British police files in July 2013.

- CrimeWatch is aired October 2013.

- The Portuguese re-open their investigation in October 2013, (ostensibly to investigate Euclides Monteiro... but who knows?) after 5 years dormancy during which OG had already been open in both review and investigation form for almost 2 and a half years.

I have always mused on whether OG was about to be quietly closed after the CW appeal, claiming that CW had failed to lead to anything worthwhile. Then, to their horror, the PJ jumped on the bandwagon with their own re-opening. Who knows what the meddling Portuguese have up their sleeves?

It now becomes imperative that OG remains open in order to dissipate any evidence and leads the PJ may have. Certainly, all we heard was cries of how the two investigations needed to work closer together, a barrage of 'Letters of Requests' (designed to detract the Portuguese onto other wild goose chases preferable to the persuit of their core investigation?) and numerous visits to Portugal to "meet and discuss" (infiltrate?) with their counterparts. And the madness of the "digs" over there. Then the coup de grace - the attempt to have the forensic evidence re-examined in England rather than the European lab.

My cynical mind wonders whether OG exists to infiltrate and scupper any damaging evidence the Portuguese uncover. Could this be why OG goes on and on, regardless of the cost? And why now a further £2M has been set aside? Because the PJ investigation rolls on?

Only my own cynical take on it, of course. And one I really hope is completely wrong.

Having said all that, I do feel more optomistic than ever before about the investigation. Mainly because of the Silence of the Wall since she took over. As has been pointed out, no-one knows anything.

Don't Forget Madeleine wrote:

AndyB wrote:

Don't Forget Madeleine wrote:

AndyB wrote:

Don't Forget Madeleine wrote:

AndyB wrote:

Don't Forget Madeleine wrote:

AndyB wrote:The Met are now under investigation for 29 different times that they have corruptly covered up wrong doing by the establishment. http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5670/ipcc-launches-13-more-probes-into-paedophile-cover-ups

Yet people still seem to believe that the 12 million and counting is to fund a genuine investigation into some unknown crime concerning the disappearance of a child in a foreign jurisdiction. Seriously? Other than blind faith, why?

May be the 29 crimes didn't have the scrutiny of the internet at the time, much different from the McCann case now.

You seem to be very perturbed about SY and the McCann case, does it matter to you that much?

Of course I'm perturbed at SY corruption! They're rubbing it in our faces and getting away with it.

The McCann case is no different - they're actively covering something up (IMO) and it matters to me a great deal. Are you saying I shouldn't care, should just tug my forelock and be happy that the McCanns get away with it simply because they're collateral beneficiaries to establishment corruption?

Can you  not see that the 29 times each represent a separate incidence of the Met corruptly covering up a serious crime? Can you not see the implications for Grange that follow from that?

I'm not saying you shouldn't care at all, of course we all care, that's why most of us have been here for 8 years waiting for justice for Madeleine.

But we all have to be patience  and see what happens with the PJ/SY investigation, if we all think it's a cover up at the end of the road we can all let rip and make as much noise about it as we can, but in the meantime we have to let things take its course.  After all we've waited 8 years, what's another year or so if it brings the perpetrators to justice.

I'll say it again, you seem to be so wound up about this "cover up" that it matters to you a great deal.  Why actually, what difference will it make to your life one way or the other?

Seriously? A corrupt establishment uses the Met to cover up their crimes and you don't think I should be getting at least a bit wound up about it?

You seem convinced that the perpetrators will be brought to justice but I'm getting wound up because its perfectly obvious to me that they won't be. Your suggestion that I wait and let things take their course only makes sense if you believe that the investigation is genuine but I don't believe that it isn't for the reasons that I've outlined above. I hope I'm wrong but, as I said earlier to Andrew, I can only go where my analysis and logic take me.

I'll ask you again: Can you  not see that the 29 times each represent a separate incidence of the Met corruptly covering up a serious crime? Can you not see the implications for Grange that follow from that?

I didn't say I was convinced that the perpetrators will be brought to justice, I said wait and see what happens when the PJ/SY investigation comes to an end.

You sound as wound up as someone else I could mention, which I won't.  I'm not losing sleep over what the PJ/SY may be doing but certain people seem to be.

And again: Can you not see that the 29 times each represent a separate incidence of the Met corruptly covering up a serious crime? Can you not see the implications for Grange that follow from that?

You could be right, but I'm not getting my knickers in a twist about it as you are.  I'm not losing sleep over it, as I said before I'll wait until PJ/SY finish their investigations.  I have confidence in them and you don't, so we don't agree, so what?  It's not going to change your life is it or my life?

I'm not after a life changing experience. I just want to put my point of view across and I can't understand why my passion for what I believe seems to be perceived as some sort of character flaw. Why is it necessary for my view to be life changing before I'm allowed to express it? Why can't I cant angry about injustice and corruption?

Great post Dee. Andy as well. It's good to have an opinion. We all have our own ideas of what's gone or happening.

No right or wrong until we see you know who, and some in the dock.

Catching up here and bit. Lots of posts since last logged in

AndyB wrote:

Don't Forget Madeleine wrote:

AndyB wrote:

Don't Forget Madeleine wrote:

AndyB wrote:

Don't Forget Madeleine wrote:

AndyB wrote:

Don't Forget Madeleine wrote:

AndyB wrote:The Met are now under investigation for 29 different times that they have corruptly covered up wrong doing by the establishment. http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5670/ipcc-launches-13-more-probes-into-paedophile-cover-ups

Yet people still seem to believe that the 12 million and counting is to fund a genuine investigation into some unknown crime concerning the disappearance of a child in a foreign jurisdiction. Seriously? Other than blind faith, why?

May be the 29 crimes didn't have the scrutiny of the internet at the time, much different from the McCann case now.

You seem to be very perturbed about SY and the McCann case, does it matter to you that much?

Of course I'm perturbed at SY corruption! They're rubbing it in our faces and getting away with it.

The McCann case is no different - they're actively covering something up (IMO) and it matters to me a great deal. Are you saying I shouldn't care, should just tug my forelock and be happy that the McCanns get away with it simply because they're collateral beneficiaries to establishment corruption?

Can you  not see that the 29 times each represent a separate incidence of the Met corruptly covering up a serious crime? Can you not see the implications for Grange that follow from that?

I'm not saying you shouldn't care at all, of course we all care, that's why most of us have been here for 8 years waiting for justice for Madeleine.

But we all have to be patience  and see what happens with the PJ/SY investigation, if we all think it's a cover up at the end of the road we can all let rip and make as much noise about it as we can, but in the meantime we have to let things take its course.  After all we've waited 8 years, what's another year or so if it brings the perpetrators to justice.

I'll say it again, you seem to be so wound up about this "cover up" that it matters to you a great deal.  Why actually, what difference will it make to your life one way or the other?

Seriously? A corrupt establishment uses the Met to cover up their crimes and you don't think I should be getting at least a bit wound up about it?

You seem convinced that the perpetrators will be brought to justice but I'm getting wound up because its perfectly obvious to me that they won't be. Your suggestion that I wait and let things take their course only makes sense if you believe that the investigation is genuine but I don't believe that it isn't for the reasons that I've outlined above. I hope I'm wrong but, as I said earlier to Andrew, I can only go where my analysis and logic take me.

I'll ask you again: Can you  not see that the 29 times each represent a separate incidence of the Met corruptly covering up a serious crime? Can you not see the implications for Grange that follow from that?

I didn't say I was convinced that the perpetrators will be brought to justice, I said wait and see what happens when the PJ/SY investigation comes to an end.

You sound as wound up as someone else I could mention, which I won't.  I'm not losing sleep over what the PJ/SY may be doing but certain people seem to be.

And again: Can you not see that the 29 times each represent a separate incidence of the Met corruptly covering up a serious crime? Can you not see the implications for Grange that follow from that?

You could be right, but I'm not getting my knickers in a twist about it as you are.  I'm not losing sleep over it, as I said before I'll wait until PJ/SY finish their investigations.  I have confidence in them and you don't, so we don't agree, so what?  It's not going to change your life is it or my life?

I'm not after a life changing experience. I just want to put my point of view across and I can't understand why my passion for what I believe seems to be perceived as some sort of character flaw. Why is it necessary for my view to be life changing before I'm allowed to express it? Why can't I cant angry about injustice and corruption?

You can get as angry as you want about injustice and corruption when it comes to Madeleine. We can all get angry but it's not going to get us very far. Why don't you write to SY yourself and ask them what they're up to. Be like TB and send endless letters to people to drive them nuts.

I have faith in the investigation so I will leave it at that. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I'll deal with it.

candyfloss wrote:

AndyB wrote:
And again: Can you not see that the 29 times each represent a separate incidence of the Met corruptly covering up a serious crime? Can you not see the implications for Grange that follow from that?

Nope

So these implications then, what are you going to do about it?  What is all this negativity and accusations going to achieve....... absolutely zilch.  Are you saying they should stop the investigation or?? -  well, what are you saying, or just moaning for moaning's sake   Sorry but I can't see the point of moaning and criticising  before you know the outcome.  

The question wasn't directed at you, it was directed at DFM, who still hasn't answered.

As to what I'm going to do about it - nothing, because there's nothing I can do, except to continue to express my point of view

Where is the negativity in what I write? I'm giving an honest assessment of the situation as I see it. Just because it doesn't agree with yours doesn't make it negative.

I'm saying that  I don't believe that Grange is a genuine investigation and have have explained why I've come to that conclusion. I haven't thought about whether or not it should continue but my view on that is irrelevant. Its going to continue for as long as it serves the Home Offices purpose, whatever that is

What about my point of view is moaning for god's sake? I'm expressing a point of view and am not at all happy about being attacked for it. I thought you prided yourself on running a tolerant forum. Where's the toleration for my views?

And where have I criticised anyone for anything?

I may be wrong but wasn't it Gordon Brown after speaking with the Portuguese Government able to get Snr Amarol taken off the case? David Cameron has recently been to Portugal, I'm sure if he wanted OG/PJ closing down it would have been discussed during this visit.
It's also strange that there are no leaks from the PJ through the press. It will be very interesting when Snr Amarals appeal begins.

Mo wrote:I may be wrong but wasn't it Gordon Brown after speaking with the Portuguese Government able to get Snr Amarol taken off the case?  David Cameron has recently been to Portugal, I'm sure if he wanted OG/PJ closing down it would have been discussed during this visit.
It's also strange that there are no leaks from the PJ through the press.  It will be very interesting when Snr Amarals appeal begins.

Oh! To have been a fly on the wall at that meeting!

When the appeal favours GA,  then the floodgates will open and big time.

The press (British) are waiting in the wings.

Vultures...  Of course.

Sales...  Massive.

A game of chess but very soon check mate.

Imo and all that jazz.

AndyB wrote:
And again: Can you not see that the 29 times each represent a separate incidence of the Met corruptly covering up a serious crime? Can you not see the implications for Grange that follow from that?

Very good point,the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Andrew wrote:When the appeal favours GA,  then the floodgates will open and big time.

The press (British) are waiting in the wings.

If it doesn't then the same will apply,only bigger,was there any coverage when Amaral successfully won his case on the book banning?