Re: BREAKING NEWS ON BBC - Madeleine McCann case: Police team cut to four

espeland Thu 29 Oct 2015, 10:19 pm

I've said I think they were investigating an abduction as per their remit,they cannot go any further,they need a get out now,over to you PJ.

No doubt they were initially following their remit. But perhaps that remit changed at some time? If they'd ruled out an abduction, there are only so many people (mainly the Tapas 9) they would look at and it wouldn't do SY any favours if their line of thinking was broadcast loudly and publicly. We can all see where the 'evidence' is pointing and, as nobodythereeither has pointed out, it won't have escaped OGs' attention either.

chirpyinsect Thu 29 Oct 2015, 10:21 pm

Walt wrote:
nobodythereeither wrote:
Walt, you seem to be very negative about these latest developments.

Clarence Mitchell told us,"Kate and Gerry are firmly of the view that some one got into the apartment and took Madeleine out of the window as their means of escape" can you point to any thing that leads you to believe that OG have been investigating any thing other than this.
Officers have investigated more than 60 persons of interest. A total of 650 sex offenders have also been considered,
why would OG be investigating this lot if they didn't believe an abduction took place.Why the need to eliminate them if they didn't think they could be involved in some way.

The police can't make assumptions. They can only work on evidence and have to start with an open mind. So every line of enquiry had to be explored and eliminated. If this was a whitewash then 1 of those 650 would have been fitted up rapido.

Bampots Thu 29 Oct 2015, 11:05 pm

Comment on Textusa; Article by Isabel Olivera

http://textusa.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/the-narrative-of-negligence.html#comment-form

From Isabel Oliveira, interesting as always:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/HiDeHoCONTROVERSYofMadeleineMcCann/permalink/536105976545896/

TALES OF THE UNEXPECTED

A theory, nothing more than a theory trying to make sense of the last few events and naturally all a conjecture.

The last few days have been confusing and I will steal Natasha’s words from the PT Resident to describe them: As often happens before any kind of ‘serious announcement’, fluff pieces have surfaced and almost instantly disappeared. "

Generally this happens before any activity of OG in Portuguese territory. Being it the digs , a rogatory , questioning people, etc. This time, the media fluff it happened before a major announcement from Operation Grange.

The feeling that something is happening is strong but so is my belief that OG is being cut and closed eventually in early 2016.

At the moment , god knows what I will think tomorrow such is the mess, this is what is sort of falling as Tetris pieces in my confused info overloaded head.

The articles we saw printed over the weekend are a reaction to OG being reduced to 4 people and eventually closed. In which way?

The could be's to be read as could be's only:

The end of OG transpired or was leaked, it originated the two articles we saw on the press this weekend:

Article about the Polish man
Article about a fraudster in OFM Fund by whistle blowers.

Regarding the article about the Polish man , I continue to think that this was written as a defensive reaction by the house of Clarence, minimising damages before a public statement by this witness and , maybe others, are made. Why do I think that? The clear attempt to manipulate what the Polish man said about taking photographs of all people, not specifically children, hence an attempt to resuscitate the paedophile abducting monster myth . This will affect his credibility of anything he may say in the future or has already said but has not come to public. I believe a statement from this man , not necessarily to the police or certainly not to OG, has been made to someone and will become public in the next few weeks. That he has information that, although not groundbreaking in what happened to MM, will cast doubts into statements that were given and the settings we were presented with from the beginning. Because his statement or what he says may cause a turn in the timelines or events he needs to be discredited and hence, this article we saw in the Sunday people. ( by the way, did you realise that no unknown pictures of his holidays were posted in the said paper)?

Regarding the article about the whistle blowers and fund fraud, most people thought this was about Halligen. That is not my view. This is about something and someone else and someone very close to the OFM nucleus that, by association, will compromise the fund as such. Halligen is an old and well known story, no need for whistle blowers for that at all. This is something new but only known by an insider to the fund.

Both articles in context. One damage control article by Clarence house, but that has resulted from fear and a warning that someone will talk (and I do not think this is any of the T9 but a person or persons that were there at the same time, and another article clearly stating a recently discovered fraud in the OFM fund.

Why before OG scaling down? Because someone wants to speak and someone wants the truth out. A warning that, you may scale down and close but we will talk .

cont.

Reply

Textusa29 Oct 2015, 18:48:00
cont.

Then we have one more curious point, the sudden constant mention by OG that this is a Portuguese case. Twice on their release and in a submissive tone. This hints that something happened at diplomatic level and institutionally something is not right. Someone in Portugal must have stressed this. It could be the PJ, it could be the Public Ministry. Something may have come up that definitely does not substantiate the abduction line of enquiry. That is another interesting point in the document, with OG finally calling it the proper name, “Disappearance” .

“Operation Grange is working to support the Portuguese investigation and this work continues.”

"The Portuguese police remain the lead investigators and our team will continue to support their inquiry. They have extended every courtesy to Operation Grange and we maintain a close working relationship. I know they remain fully committed to investigating Madeleine's disappearance with support from the Metropolitan Police.”

It is an admission of defeat, a submissive release that indicates the closing of OG. Some of the paragraphs actually sound like a KPI end of the year performance report, it shows accounting for the large amount of money spent but it also shows the end of OG.

“The investigation team has taken 1,338 statements and collected 1,027 exhibits. Having reviewed all of the documents, 7,154 actions were raised and 560 lines of enquiry identified, and over thirty international request to countries across the world asking for work to be undertaken on behalf of the Met. Officers have investigated more than 60 persons of interest. A total of 650 sex offenders have also been considered as well as reports of 8,685 potential sightings of Madeleine around the world.”

“While there remain lines of inquiry to follow, the vast majority of the work by Operation Grange has been completed”. My optimist side would like to read the lines of enquiry that have not been followed will be, but what jumps at me is that the work of OG has been completed.

However, sometimes one is over reliant on nobody remembering things after a long while or maybe just linking things that had not clicked before. Someone that was in PDL has clicked or is tired of not saying something, someone wants this something investigated and made public. This someone , or some people, were warning OG that they may close or become a cold case but they have no intentions of staying or remaining quiet. And that is where everything gets interesting .

Reply

PMR Thu 29 Oct 2015, 11:15 pm

Walt wrote:
nobodythereeither wrote:
Walt, you seem to be very negative about these latest developments.

Clarence Mitchell told us,"Kate and Gerry are firmly of the view that some one got into the apartment and took Madeleine out of the window as their means of escape" can you point to any thing that leads you to believe that OG have been investigating any thing other than this.
Officers have investigated more than 60 persons of interest. A total of 650 sex offenders have also been considered,
why would OG be investigating this lot if they didn't believe an abduction took place.Why the need to eliminate them if they didn't think they could be involved in some way.

Quite logical to investigate them even if they don't think they were involved , that way when a defence barrister turns arround and says ' but officer what about ????' The officer can turn round and say ' yes we looked into ???? And proved they could not be involved .

Bampots Thu 29 Oct 2015, 11:40 pm

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CShMMoTWcAAu3BS.jpg

Above link contains tomorrow's Sun front page.....and they are back! Yes K and G.

kylie Thu 29 Oct 2015, 11:50 pm

Begging bowl will be coming out soon they only have 750k left.

Mimi Thu 29 Oct 2015, 11:50 pm

I tend to agree with Isabel Oliveira - I also get the impression OG are passing the baton back to Portugal for the finale. `We did all we could, but we have to remember it is a Portuguese case`. We also had an ex-spokesperson for the McCanns on LBC radio today reinforcing the claim that it was because of the PJ`s inadequacies that the MET had to spend all those hours and all that money going over everything from the case.
I betcha this is the plan.

Mimi Thu 29 Oct 2015, 11:52 pm

Bampots wrote:https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CShMMoTWcAAu3BS.jpg

Above link contains tomorrow's Sun front page.....and they are back! Yes K and G.

A charming little piece by the one and only Antonella Lazzeri - nuff said Rolling Eyes

Hellsbells Fri 30 Oct 2015, 7:24 am

the ramping up of everything has coincided with the return of R Brooks. It's as if the whole saga was an invention of the press in order to sell papers.
if NSY genuinely can't find an abductor, or any evidence of an abduction, after 4 years of reviewing the case, it should convince most people that there wasnt one and that something else happened instead.
what exactly that was is still not obvious to me, but I'm not sure that the forums have got this completely right. The complicity of the media in the story indicates something more obscure.
it is crazy but I am sometimes tempted to go back to the early days and wonder if she ever existed at all. But some (not all) of the early photos are convincing. Or maybe she really disappeared a long time before the holiday. Something weird or intangible outside our normal experience. Yes I know it sounds barmy but so to me does the idea of a massive inter governmental conspiracy to cover up the death of a little girl.

Is it all about boosting campaigns for missing children? Or a promotion for electronic tagging? Amber alert? Who knows?
there's something about the whole sequence of events, including the previous Christmas and the trip to Donegal that just doesnt add up. And NSY's apparent admission that she probably wasnt abducted (because yes that's effectively what they are saying) makes me yet again want to think well outside the box.

Bampots Fri 30 Oct 2015, 7:49 am

I feel for you Hells! The same headf#%k I've been having for the past few days. I don't believe that Brooks has that much clout. She is an opportunist who jumped onto the back of TM because it did her career good and sold papers. I though cover up yesterday morning,then after reading Cristobells blog,not,then by the end of the evening as the Sun came out (sic) I was back or should I say further back than when I started. Blessed are the sure of mind!

If this is the Suns position then,one minute letting comments run wild (could be harvesting addresses or comments of course!) the next giving sustenance too those their readers find suspect. But of course we could all just be victims of what Clarence does best.

As I write this I think ....why did I pick up the I-Pad before breakfast!!!

**candyfloss** Fri 30 Oct 2015, 8:05 am

Bampots wrote:https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CShMMoTWcAAu3BS.jpg

Above link contains tomorrow's Sun front page.....and they are back! Yes K and G.

BREAKING NEWS ON BBC - Madeleine McCann case: Police team cut to four - Page 6 CShLcjhWsAAspyD

costello Fri 30 Oct 2015, 8:21 am

Bampots wrote:I feel for you Hells! The same headf#%k I've been having for the past few days. I don't believe that Brooks has that much clout. She is an opportunist who jumped onto the back of TM because it did her career good and sold papers. I though cover up yesterday morning,then after reading Cristobells blog,not,then by the end of the evening as the Sun came out (sic) I was back or should I say further back than when I started. Blessed are the sure of mind!

If this is the Suns position then,one minute letting comments run wild (could be harvesting addresses or comments of course!) the next giving sustenance too those their readers find suspect. But of course we could all just be victims of what Clarence does best.

As I write this I think ....why did I pick up the I-Pad before breakfast!!!

Hope today's Textusa will cheer you up Bampots. I read a comment yesterday that they are optimistic.

Hellsbells Fri 30 Oct 2015, 8:44 am

there is always an underlying reason for a cover up
in the case of Hillsborough it was because of terrible failures within the police force
in the case of the dodgy dossier it was because the government wanted to go to war and were hell bent on finding any excuse
in the case of Maddie ???
I don't believe that 30 NSY detectives could all be complicit in a cover up. One of them would be bound to blow. After all they would be sitting on one of the biggest stories in history
sorry folks, but an internet forum can't seriously be expected to solve a case like this while the cops go on an 8 year long wild goose chase, either being too stupid to see what's staring them in the face or so corrupt that they must hide the fact that some political stalwart, the highly respected Lord Ponsonby Smyth (fictional name), was in Portugal on a swingers holiday
so I would think either the story is roughly what many on here believe, but it's proving very difficult to prove to a court level
or it's something else altogether
surely???

PMR Fri 30 Oct 2015, 8:49 am

Agree Hells Bells , although I nearly choked on my tea on a comment elsewhere that they had done more to solve the case than OG !

Guest Fri 30 Oct 2015, 8:55 am

One other thing has occurred to me, and that's the balance of The Fund. While the McCanns were flush with money, they were litigous and powerful. The balance of the Fund has surely now been reduced by quite a lot, the result being that the McCanns are much less litigous and, by default, much less powerful and much less able to surround themselves by others with power.

It's one thing to investigate a wealthy suspect with an unlimited supply of funds available, to buy the best lawyers and the best defense possible.

It's quite another to investigate a suspect or suspects whose funds are limited, and continue to deplete, thus reducing their "power", however that might be defined.

I think the SY investigation may also have been an exercise in depreciation. As in, waiting for the "powerful" to become less so.

chirpyinsect Fri 30 Oct 2015, 9:05 am

Hellsbells wrote:there is always an underlying reason for a cover up
in the case of Hillsborough it was because of terrible failures within the police force
in the case of the dodgy dossier it was because the government wanted to go to war and were hell bent on finding any excuse
in the case of Maddie ???
I don't believe that 30 NSY detectives could all be complicit in a cover up. One of them would be bound to blow. After all they would be sitting on one of the biggest stories in history
sorry folks, but an internet forum can't seriously be expected to solve a case like this while the cops go on an 8 year long wild goose chase, either being too stupid to see what's staring them in the face or so corrupt that they must hide the fact that some political stalwart, the highly respected Lord Ponsonby Smyth (fictional name), was in Portugal on a swingers holiday
so I would think either the story is roughly what many on here believe, but it's proving very difficult to prove to a court level
or it's something else altogether
surely???

I am pleased you have had the courage to voice something that has tugged at the far reaches of my mind for some time. For most people, suggesting M as we know her, didn't exist is a conspiracy too far and I accept that but a gigantic hoax has some credibility and should be explored. It has as much validity (as a theory) as any other that has been hammered to death for 8 years, without a glimmer of a breakthrough.
Would it explain the photo anomalies better than some peoples' view that they were altered to make her more attractive?
Would it lend any weight to the Wayback debacle from this summer? And even if the WB was a glitch, why the heck were Ceop ever involved in the case of an "abducted" child? Their remit was online protection.
Would it explain the parents' detachment and ability to smile 2 or 3 days after they lost contact with a supposedly beloved daughter? Would it cover the lack of anyone outside the circle ever having commented on this child? Neighbours, shop keepers, doctors, midwife, health visitor, priest who baptised her, have not spoken about her.
Would it explain why after 8 years and with 2 police forces investigating her disappearance, they seem no closer to the answer than they were on 3 May 2007?
I don't know the answer but it is a thought that I keep in those dark recesses.

Hellsbells Fri 30 Oct 2015, 9:14 am

thanks for that chirpyinsect.
all the forums have been fixated on roughly the same solution (with a few twiddles) for 8 years but it would surely have been solved by now if that had been the sequence of events.
at first an attempt would have been made to find concrete evidence before charges were made.
but, failing that, if the cops had been convinced of the solution they would just have got the suspects and potential conspirators in and grilled them until they cracked. Piece of cake in this case because there were 9 of them.
that's why I don't think it's what happened, and - guessing here - that the cops don't either.

Bampots Fri 30 Oct 2015, 9:35 am

Cover ups happen regularly. It's part of life in Government and mostly they are small with little consequence for the public at large. Large cover ups do happen,any doubters watch Bletchley to see one of the biggest. We kept "ultra" from all but senior government post holders and this was collected by 'ordinary' women mostly. We managed to keep it from the USA!The important part of a coverup is belief. Ordinary civil servants (police included) have to believe in the purpose of what they are involved with,then large cover ups do happen with success. I keep thinking back to Martin Roberts theory on the interruption of secret services cracking an IRA gun running circle.....it would have to be something of that magnitude to involve all those we suspect to be involved....

Poe Fri 30 Oct 2015, 9:46 am

An analysis of the Sun article by anorak: http://www.anorak.co.uk/425189/madeleine-mccann/madeleine-mccann-nothing-shelved-four-at-work-and-the-sun-hacks-the-police.html/

Madeleine McCann: nothing shelved, four at work and the Sun hacks the police
Madeleine McCann: a look at the missing child in the news.

The Sun (front page): “SUN EXCLUSIVE – MADDIE:McCann: We’ll never give up”

Is that news?

We learn via bullet points:

£750,000 IN FUND
EX-COPS TEAM
Page 13: “NEVER QUIT”

We’re told that the police operation is to be “shelved”. As ever, an unnamed “source close to the McCanns” says: “They are very much of the mind, ‘We will never give up’ and they won’t. They have spearheaded the hunt for Madeleine themselves before and will do so again if they have to.”

We also hear from the McCanns’ spokesman Clarence Mitchell: “Should the need arise for a private investigation to be resumed, they have made sure they have enough money left in Madeleine’s fund.”

Page 12-13: “HOW DID MADDIE HUNT GO WRONG?

Do we know that it has? The Met’s Operation Grange has been gathering evidence and reviewing all data. Four police officers will now work full-time on the case. The 25 who also worked on it have been put on other duties. Maybe one of them can look for Andrew Gosden or Steven Cook?

The Sun says the Met’s enquiry is “expected to be wound down completely in the New Year”.

The paper wonders “how could an inquiry that to date has cost more than £11million seemingly achieve so little?”

The British taskforce, which at its height was 37-strong, has yet to make a single arrest, despite 560 lines of inquiry and 60 suspects.

Why is the Sun no keen to present this as a failure by the Met police? Why is the Sun, the paper in the eye of the police’s phone hacking purge / witch hunt, keen to ask: ”

It also became mired in a spending controversy with some cops staying in the £200-a-night five-star Hotel Dona Filipa during visits to Portugal. Last year there were 67 flights to the country by cops costing £16,000, with overtime on top. So what were all these officers actually doing?

That hotel price is for peak season. The officers were then in the off-season. And:

By the latest count, the Met claims “7,154 actions had been raised” and 560 lines of inquiry identified. They had identified more than 60 persons of interest and 650 sex offenders were also investigated.

But the numbers mask the chaos going on behind the scenes.

Having found the police wanting, the Sun than adds a fact:

Madeleine’s case was always a special one. Never has a missing child received so much worldwide focus. Indeed, the average amount spent on investigating a missing child is around £2,400.

That’s because:

a) The media saw the missing blonde child and launched a voracious feeding frenzy.

b) Most children are found quickly

In other tabloids today: Daily Mail, Daily Express and Daily Mirror all nothing on Madeleine McCann.

Mimi Fri 30 Oct 2015, 9:49 am

canada12 wrote:One other thing has occurred to me, and that's the balance of The Fund. While the McCanns were flush with money, they were litigous and powerful. The balance of the Fund has surely now been reduced by quite a lot, the result being that the McCanns are much less litigous and, by default, much less powerful and much less able to surround themselves by others with power.

It's one thing to investigate a wealthy suspect with an unlimited supply of funds available, to buy the best lawyers and the best defense possible.

It's quite another to investigate a suspect or suspects whose funds are limited, and continue to deplete, thus reducing their "power", however that might be defined.

I think the SY investigation may also have been an exercise in depreciation. As in, waiting for the "powerful" to become less so.

Of course, we`ve just found out that The Chilcot Report is due out next June 2016 after being delayed for about 7 years and dear Tony Bliar is already trying to pre-empt it`s results. Isn`t this about the same time as the Grange money runs out. Dearest Tony and Cherie who were on the phone to the Mcs straight after MBM`s disappearance.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2015/oct/26/uk-national-newspapers-reject-tony-blairs-iraq-war-apology

Hellsbells Fri 30 Oct 2015, 10:01 am

Bampots wrote:The important part of a coverup is belief. Ordinary civil servants (police included) have to believe in the purpose of what they are involved with

this is the key requirement in a cover up or it will be exposed by a whistleblower.
everyone has to be onside.
how on earth can that possibly have been arranged with respect to the Maddie case?
if NSY had been covering up NSY failings that might be plausible but I really don't see that.
Even if, say, as some have suggested, that Maddie was the product of some biological experiment (cloning etc) and the government needed to keep it hush hush I still don't think the lid could have been kept on it by involving dozens more people in the cover up.
in any case it would have been done by quietly forgetting it when the story had slipped out of the public interest in 2010, rather than re igniting it and then employing 30 detectives to remind the whole world about it before subsequently whitewashing it.

**Freedom** Fri 30 Oct 2015, 10:34 am

Here's a link to all of The Sun article, with thanks to whoever posted it on Facebook. I'd been hoping that dear old Antonella and her crayons had been pensioned off by now.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/6716434/McCanns-vow-to-keep-searching-for-Maddie.html?CMP=spklr-_-S9SunSocial-_-FBPAGE-_-TheSun-thesun-_-20151030-_-News-_-266375110-_-Imageandlink

Dee Coy Fri 30 Oct 2015, 10:44 am

Reading that, I still have the niggling feeling that Murdoch is turning.

Hellsbells Fri 30 Oct 2015, 10:45 am

canada12 wrote:One other thing has occurred to me, and that's the balance of The Fund.

according to the Sun article Freedom just posted, all £750,000 will be spent on private detectives.
that won't leave anything for lawyers.

nobodythereeither Fri 30 Oct 2015, 10:54 am

PMR wrote:Agree Hells Bells , although I nearly choked on my tea on a comment elsewhere that they had done more to solve the case than OG !

I saw that.

There's an awful lot of bs being spouted in some places, with no evidence whatsoever to back it up.

I find the lack of some people's ability to use logic (and common sense) really depressing Crying or Very sad

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