No blood found in Apartment 5a - Tweets from S & S

**Admin** Wed 17 Sep 2014, 11:38 am

So according to Summers and Swan and Former senior FSS scientist, no blood found in apartment..

Summers & Swan ‏@summersandswan 2h
Former senior British FSS scientist who has examined case files in #madeleinemccann case says no evidence of blood in apartment.

Summers & Swan ‏@summersandswan 20 mins
@StellabyLight @FakeRC There was no "blood" found in 5a - only human fluid. Never tested for blood in situ & LCN test cannot id fluid.

**Admin** Wed 17 Sep 2014, 11:40 am

Summers & Swan @summersandswan · 21m
@FakeRC No blood identified in #madeleinemccann holiday flat. That's what FSS files say & two eminent DNA experts concur.

**Admin** Wed 17 Sep 2014, 11:42 am

Summers & Swan @summersandswan · 2h
Director of Irish Forensic Service DNA center calls DNA evidence #madeleinemccann case "a whole lot of nothing"

Summers & Swan @summersandswan · 3h
#madeleinemccann Forensic files and experts iv'd for "Looking for Madeleine" bk - no evidence Madeleine harmed in flat. No blood, no DNA

dantezebu Wed 17 Sep 2014, 12:03 pm

Samples were collected in 5a from the area indicated by Keela. A dog trained to indicate to human blood. And only human blood.
These samples were found to contain DNA.
The FFS lab did not test the samples to see what body fluid the DNA came from. I don't know if this is usual, perhaps to preserve as much of the sample for DNA testing. But it is not recommended to use luminol when collecting tiny samples in situ as this destroys the possibility of obtaining DNA from the samples.

Again S&S are cherry picking as twisting evidence to support their claim that Gerry and Kate McCann are innocent.
It is very strange all this. They were supposed to have written a book about the search for Madeleine. But the all evidence especially from the above trashing of the DNA shows us that the true purpose for this book is purely for the purpose of manipulating the reader.
So strange as there are two on-going investigations who have not reached any conclusions yet.

Guest Wed 17 Sep 2014, 12:09 pm

These tweets appear correct to me. No blood was "identified", but the Portuguese didn't test the samples in situ as per instructions, and the FSS didn't test for blood.

I wouldn't get too irritated by these tweets, they're just stating facts.

Guest Wed 17 Sep 2014, 12:16 pm

Hmmm, yes S&S do seem to be making a case for the defence here, very strange..well not so strange actually, it's just like Clarence Mitchell with a new face (and boy he could use a new face) preempting anything that may incriminate the McCanns with waffle that detracts from the real facts

Guest Wed 17 Sep 2014, 12:29 pm

There are actual fabrications in the book, which I'm more concerned about.

Here's one from Chapter 2:

"After the PJ officers arrived, and when things quitened down, one of the investigation officers sat with Gerry and Russ O'Brien as they tried to reconstruct the events of the catastrophic evening - with the approval of the PJ Man. O'Brien tore off the back of a child's sticker book that was lying in the living room - it had belonged to Madeleine - took a pen and scribbled down the salient events."

This is contradicted by O'Brien's own recollection of events in his rogatory statement:

"'But anyway Dave Payne said to, errm... there were two members of the PJ had arrived, there was a guy I remember being almost shaved bald head, quite dark complexion, and a second one who we kind of nicknamed 'baby face', who did our fingerprinting about a week later, errm... and those two were there and Dave was... was saying, you know, 'Shouldn't we', you know, 'Why are we sitting here, shouldn't you be on the radio, shouldn't there be more people here, shouldn't there be...', you know, 'this should be on the radio, it should be on the television' and, errm... I recall 'baby face', or his colleague, saying 'No media', and, you know... and that was full-stop and then turning round to me writing the timeline and saying 'That's what we want', fair enough. Errm... huh, and that's really it."

Unfortunately I can't find any police statements that mention this.

Guest Wed 17 Sep 2014, 12:39 pm

And of course there were two timelines, were there not? Maybe I am wrong, but I always thought the timelines were written prior to the police arriving, can anyone remember?

Guest Wed 17 Sep 2014, 12:44 pm

The book does go on to mention the second timeline, just that O'Brien thought the first one was messy so he rewrote it.

The book is very clever at confusing the sequence of events. Another example of this is David Payne's legendary/mythical visit to 5A at some point between 6 and 7. The book relates that period of time without mentioning Payne, and moves on to when they were at the Tapas. Then it backtracks and mentions in retrospect that Payne had visited 5A, giving his quote about the angels in white. It avoids any details about the visit (if it really happened at all).

And it is very deliberately done. Summers and Swan know full well that the inconsistent versions of that visit are suspicious, and avoided the details like the plague, while still fitting it into the narrative.

This is exactly the type of confusion I will expect if the McCanns ever come to trial.

Guest Wed 17 Sep 2014, 12:50 pm

The book says in the Authors' Note:

"This book has been researched and written independently of Gerry and Kate McCann."

Why the need to point this out?

Regardless, given the evidence of the Book of Kate I too would have kept Kate McCann well away from the writing of this book. Gerry and Kate are no use in constructing a seamless defence. They've done enough to contribute to their own demise already.

No, the book has the words 'legal team' written all over it.

KathyBelle Wed 17 Sep 2014, 12:52 pm

I've removed the link, because I've copied it to another post.

KathyBelle Wed 17 Sep 2014, 12:53 pm

wlbts wrote:These tweets appear correct to me. No blood was "identified", but the Portuguese didn't test the samples in situ as per instructions, and the FSS didn't test for blood.

I wouldn't get too irritated by these tweets, they're just stating facts.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BLOOD.htm

Guest Wed 17 Sep 2014, 12:54 pm

KathyBelle wrote:
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BLOOD.htm

It reads:

"We were informed by those same officers that those recoveries should be performed through swabs commonly used by the English police (which were given to us by those DIC officers) and that there should not be used any of the indication tests that permit to identify what type of trace evidence those spots might contain."

They didn't perform any in situ indication tests for blood.

Guest Wed 17 Sep 2014, 12:54 pm

I still wonder why the Paynes were airbrushed out of Crimewatch, I think it may be very relevant to the alleged visit to 5a. I suppose the one good thing is that when people are faced with proper police interviewing, under caution, they need to be very firm on timings etc, precisely so that it can be used in court if necessary. I wonder what Payne's official version will be?

Justformaddiemccann Wed 17 Sep 2014, 12:55 pm

I recall reading that Madeleine had grazed her knee on the steps of the airbus ( which I did see her trip ), also the mention of her having nosebleeds and also the mention of the previous tennent having cut himself shaving. Not sure where or who though, sorry, but if this mentioned was true, then I take it blood had been found. A bit like Eddie & Keelas "false" alerts, but they still came up with sea bass, rotting meat, 6 bodies and rubbish to explain the cadaver odour. If they didn't believe the dogs, then why the need to explain them? In trying to explain away the odour, then IMO, they believe the dogs, same if blood was found.
IMO

Guest Wed 17 Sep 2014, 1:00 pm

Justformaddiemccann wrote:I recall reading that Madeleine had grazed her knee on the steps of the airbus ( which I did see her trip ), also the mention of her having nosebleeds and also the mention of the previous tennent having cut himself shaving. Not sure where or who though, sorry, but if this mentioned was true, then I take it blood had been found. A bit like Eddie & Keelas "false" alerts, but they still came up with sea bass, rotting meat, 6 bodies and rubbish to explain the cadaver odour. If they didn't believe the dogs, then why the need to explain them? In trying to explain away the odour, then IMO, they believe the dogs, same if blood was found.
IMO

But isn't a key point whether the McCanns knew what was going on or not? They couldn't have known whether blood was found at the time, so perhaps they worked on the assumption that it had.

Justformaddiemccann Wed 17 Sep 2014, 1:10 pm

wlbts wrote:
Justformaddiemccann wrote:I recall reading that Madeleine had grazed her knee on the steps of the airbus ( which I did see her trip ), also the mention of her having nosebleeds and also the mention of the previous tennent having cut himself shaving. Not sure where or who though, sorry, but if this mentioned was true, then I take it blood had been found. A bit like Eddie & Keelas "false" alerts, but they still came up with sea bass, rotting meat, 6 bodies and rubbish to explain the cadaver odour. If they didn't believe the dogs, then why the need to explain them? In trying to explain away the odour, then IMO, they believe the dogs, same if blood was found.
IMO

But isn't a key point whether the McCanns knew what was going on or not? They couldn't have known whether blood was found at the time, so perhaps they worked on the assumption that it had.

Shit WLBTS, that's that knocked in the head lol. I suppose Maddie could've had a nosebleed and went behind the sofa for a toy maybe. But then that leaves us with the fluid that was found?
IMO

Guest Wed 17 Sep 2014, 1:16 pm

Justformaddiemccann wrote:
Shit WLBTS, that's that knocked in the head lol. I suppose Maddie could've had a nosebleed and went behind the sofa for a toy maybe. But then that leaves us with the fluid that was found?
IMO

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that there wasn't any blood in 5A, or arguing with how it got there Smile

I believe Eddie and Keela. Just that Summers & Swan are correct in their claim that no blood was "identified", at least from what we know from the released PJ files.

Justformaddiemccann Wed 17 Sep 2014, 1:22 pm

wlbts wrote:
Justformaddiemccann wrote:
Shit WLBTS, that's that knocked in the head lol. I suppose Maddie could've had a nosebleed and went behind the sofa for a toy maybe. But then that leaves us with the fluid that was found?
IMO

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that there wasn't any blood in 5A, or arguing with how it got there Just that Summers & Swan are correct in their claim that no blood was "identified", at least from what we know from the released PJ files.

Ah, I get you now, I'm a little slower on picking those points up! Thank you for letting me know!

KathyBelle Wed 17 Sep 2014, 1:24 pm

wlbts wrote:
KathyBelle wrote:
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BLOOD.htm

It reads:

"We were informed by those same officers that those recoveries should be performed through swabs commonly used by the English police (which were given to us by those DIC officers) and that there should not be used any of the indication tests that permit to identify what type of trace evidence those spots might contain."

They didn't perform any in situ indication tests for blood.

Hi I put the link on your post, because you implied that the tweeters were speaking facts, when they said no blood was found in the McCanns apartment.

KathyBelle Wed 17 Sep 2014, 1:27 pm

wlbts wrote:
Justformaddiemccann wrote:
Shit WLBTS, that's that knocked in the head lol. I suppose Maddie could've had a nosebleed and went behind the sofa for a toy maybe. But then that leaves us with the fluid that was found?
IMO

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that there wasn't any blood in 5A, or arguing with how it got there I believe Eddie and Keela. Just that Summers & Swan are correct in their claim that no blood was "identified", at least from what we know from the released PJ files.

According to Philomena McCann, the blood that was found in the McCanns apartment, was Madeleine's, but it came from nose bleeds that she frequently suffered from.

Guest Wed 17 Sep 2014, 1:29 pm

KathyBelle wrote:
Hi I put the link on your post, because you implied that the tweeters were speaking facts, when they said no blood was found in the McCanns apartment.

They didn't find blood. They found 'spots' and 'stains'. They didn't do any tests to conclude that the traces were blood. That doesn't mean that the spots and stains weren't blood, just that no tests were done to prove that they were.

The tweet is a statement of fact, they didn't find blood in 5A. Visually identifying something as possibly blood is not the same as conclusively finding blood.

Poe Wed 17 Sep 2014, 1:38 pm

So:

1. A specialised sniffer dog indicated that he could smell human cadaverine.

2. Bodily fluid was found with dna that does not eliminate Madeleine as the possible origin of the fluid.

3. The police have suggested that they are considering the scenario that Madeleine didn't leave the apartment alive and have been digging the surrounding area.

4. In the last seven years there hasn't been a single convincing sighting of Madeleine anywhere despite a worldwide search.

But we should ignore all that because no blood was identified. Phew that's a relief!

Can anyone who has bought the S&S book confirm whether the Director of Irish Forensic Service DNA center and other experts are named and the full contexts of the questions and their replies to those questions is given?

KathyBelle Wed 17 Sep 2014, 1:42 pm

wlbts wrote:
KathyBelle wrote:
Hi I put the link on your post, because you implied that the tweeters were speaking facts, when they said no blood was found in the McCanns apartment.

They didn't find blood. They found 'spots' and 'stains'. They didn't do any tests to conclude that the traces were blood. That doesn't mean that the spots and stains weren't blood, just that no tests were done to prove that they were.

The tweet is a statement of fact, they didn't find blood in 5A. Visually identifying something as possibly blood is not the same as conclusively finding blood.

KathyBelle Wed 17 Sep 2014, 2:00 pm

KathyBelle wrote:
wlbts wrote:
KathyBelle wrote:
Hi I put the link on your post, because you implied that the tweeters were speaking facts, when they said no blood was found in the McCanns apartment.

They didn't find blood. They found 'spots' and 'stains'. They didn't do any tests to conclude that the traces were blood. That doesn't mean that the spots and stains weren't blood, just that no tests were done to prove that they were.

The tweet is a statement of fact, they didn't find blood in 5A. Visually identifying something as possibly blood is not the same as conclusively finding blood.

Blood was found in the McCanns apartment and subsequently tested by Portuguese Forensic Scientists in Lisbon.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PORTUGUESE-FORENSIC.htm

I haven't yet studied the information, so I can't say if the blood did belong to Madeleine. However because the the McCanns agreed with Philomena McCann, who said that the blood was Madeleine's and it came from nosebleeds she suffered from or her grazed knee, I am presuming they had been told that the blood had been sent for tests.

I'm also presuming that the McCanns along with Philomena McCann made these statements, so they had a ready made excuse for the blood.

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